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Old 03-31-2007, 08:19 PM   #76
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Default Re: What to do with Richard ?

Getting back on topic, I dont dispute Superman's heroism in all this after all he did save humanity. But in a strange sort of way although Richard really didnt know the scope of the situation with the landmass expanding and what not, you felt that he did everything he could to save the world that he knew, that being Lois and Jason, and that was all that mattered to him. They mean the world to him. Superman always risks his life to save everyone because he cares deeply for all people and should not be overlooked. It will be interesting to the fate of this character. Richard is unique in his own right.

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Old 03-31-2007, 10:33 PM   #77
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Default Re: What to do with Richard ?

i think the idea that would work best and fit best for the characters is to have lois n supes gradually fall in love while richard gradually realizes jason's not his son. richards not dick, hed probably understand as long is it was gradual and not a big "hey jason isnt your son" sort of thing.

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Old 04-01-2007, 12:20 AM   #78
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Default Re: What to do with Richard ?

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I think Richard is the kind of man who - after a period of grief and dissapointment - would raise Superman's kid even knowing it's not his own. His love for Lois easily compete with Superman's.
I thought so, too.
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The real question is what Lois is going to do about him. I feel that if she'd find out Superman is Clark, things would be very different for her too.

But in no case to over-simplify things making him evil or killing him.
I don't really know, but killing or making him evil seems way too cliched.

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Old 04-01-2007, 09:41 AM   #79
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i think the idea that would work best and fit best for the characters is to have lois n supes gradually fall in love while richard gradually realizes jason's not his son. richards not dick, hed probably understand as long is it was gradual and not a big "hey jason isnt your son" sort of thing.
That would be pretty harsh.

They should just write it with him and Lois knowing that Jason was Superman's son all along and were keeping that matter confidential from the public for obvious reasons.

When Lex confronted Lois about Jason's father and she said "......Richard," she came off nervously like she was deliberately lying.

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Old 04-01-2007, 10:57 AM   #80
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Default Re: What to do with Richard ?

Poor old James Marsden.

In X-Men, he was solid, reliable Cyclops, shoved aside by the less-than-dependable loner Wolverine.

In SE, he was solid, reliable Richard, who now faces being shoved aside by the less-than-dependable loner Superman.

Didn't he spot a typecasting scenario smacking him in the head?!

If Richard turns evil, I'm not sure that will work. If he dies, it's a cheap cop-out. Same with Jason.

We saw Cyclops eliminated much too quickly in X3... Surely they won't do the same to Richard in the SR sequel?

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Old 04-01-2007, 01:24 PM   #81
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Default Re: What to do with Richard ?

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I agree venom. And I wish that this whole connection to the old films was not attempted. I hate this whole vague sequel thing it makes me sick. This should have had its own identity in this film. I grew up loving the Donner films and they are regarded as classics. I always felt that SupermanI and II were one complete story and parts of it should not have been discounted. IMO their attempt at an homage has turned into something else. It should have been left alone and continued its own legacy. Superman story could have been retold for the new generation and continued the same basics and elements that have endured for older generations. But no need to complain anymore as we have what we have.

Agreed, I was just given the guy his answer!

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Old 04-04-2007, 11:09 AM   #82
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Default Re: What to do with Richard ?

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Poor old James Marsden.

In X-Men, he was solid, reliable Cyclops, shoved aside by the less-than-dependable loner Wolverine.

In SE, he was solid, reliable Richard, who now faces being shoved aside by the less-than-dependable loner Superman.

Didn't he spot a typecasting scenario smacking him in the head?!

If Richard turns evil, I'm not sure that will work. If he dies, it's a cheap cop-out. Same with Jason.

We saw Cyclops eliminated much too quickly in X3... Surely they won't do the same to Richard in the SR sequel?
He always seems to get screwed, don't he.

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Old 04-09-2007, 11:04 AM   #83
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Default Re: What to do with Richard ?

This is a tough thread in which to post. I'll start by stating what a lot have said, that I loved Richard's character. He definitely was the best in the movie. That being said, I really have no clue what to with his character in the subsequent movies. I guess I'll just throw something out there...

Have Richard and Clark/Superman become better friends, in the same way that Bruce/Batman will both become friends with one person (like Gordon or Dent). Superman realizes Lois is better off with Richard, a human with whom she can make a real life. He also sees much of Jonathan Kent in Richard's character, and feels that Jason, his son, should be raised by Richard and Lois. If anything ever happens to Supes, he knows Jason is safely concealed with Richard and Lois and will be raised as the Kents raised him. I think Superman should end up alone. I think it suits the mythology.

Another thought, and someone already posted this, is that maybe Richard should find out Clark/Superman, as well as the fact that Jason is his son. I think the whole package of these events would be a great arc for the personal stories over two more movies (against the backdrop of supervillains, of course).

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Old 04-09-2007, 01:12 PM   #84
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Richard in my eyes is one of the biggest corners the writers have put themselves in. Why? Because he came off as so much more likable than Superman. Heck, he was pretty much everything Superman SHOULD HAVE been, meanwhile Superman was pretty much a whiney, angst-ridden, stalker.

So what do you do with him? Kill him? Then the audience feels more for Richard than they do Superman. Plus it would seem rather shallow of Lois to lose her fiancee and move right on to Superman, so you would have ANOTHER movie of Lois being unable to be with Superman because of Richard.

Do you make him evil? At this point it would just seem as though it were done out of desperation. There was no foreshadowing to it, there really isn't much of a reason behind it. There are good twists and bad twists, that would be the latter.

Or, you can give Richard a happy ending. Keep in mind, these aren't the comic books. Things don't have to be exactly as they are. I really think in this continuity that Singer has created, as much as I disagree with him creating it...Letting Richard keep the girl and kid is the best choice.

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Old 04-09-2007, 01:47 PM   #85
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Default Re: What to do with Richard ?

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Richard in my eyes is one of the biggest corners the writers have put themselves in. Why? Because he came off as so much more likable than Superman. Heck, he was pretty much everything Superman SHOULD HAVE been, meanwhile Superman was pretty much a whiney, angst-ridden, stalker.
I think the cotrne situation is for Superman here. Sure, he can convince the world he's heroic because he have super-powers and does incredible things but now he knows a simple human being can be as heroic as him with no blue tights and powers. So now he has to prove that he really is heroic somehow. Part of it would be to accept that Richard is heroic and not a bad option for Lois at all. He has to prpove more than ever that he can have the girl by his own merits.

Of course, b*tchy Lane will always want the flashy suit and the powers. So Richard as a character in the story can point out how much of a shallow chick she actually is and always has been.

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So what do you do with him? Kill him? Then the audience feels more for Richard than they do Superman. Plus it would seem rather shallow of Lois to lose her fiancee and move right on to Superman, so you would have ANOTHER movie of Lois being unable to be with Superman because of Richard.

Do you make him evil? At this point it would just seem as though it were done out of desperation. There was no foreshadowing to it, there really isn't much of a reason behind it. There are good twists and bad twists, that would be the latter.
Well, I don't know where the making him evil idea came from but I don't see it happening.

Mark my words: Lois will insist with Superman. She won't be able to grow up and appreciate a man with no powers no matter how good and heroic he is, once she has known Supes. It's just in her nature.

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Or, you can give Richard a happy ending. Keep in mind, these aren't the comic books. Things don't have to be exactly as they are. I really think in this continuity that Singer has created, as much as I disagree with him creating it...Letting Richard keep the girl and kid is the best choice.
My prediction is that - heroic as he is - he will prefer to step aside and let Lois to be happy with the man she wants.

I wouldn't blame Richard if he gets angry when he knows Jason is not his son. I could see him going to Court to defend his fatherhood. Maybe that way people will see him more as a 'less likeable guy,' even when that would make Lois less likeable to me.

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Old 04-09-2007, 06:41 PM   #86
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Default Re: What to do with Richard ?

One has to admit, whether or not you like the story in SR or compare it to a soap opera(which I have at times), it is extremely difficult to figure out how everything will be resolved. Even the fan favorite superhero movies, one can agree can be pretty predictable, particularly the Spider-Man movies. With the inclusion of a character such as Richard, this story is anything but predictable. This movie challenges the viewer in a way that most superhero movies do not.

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Old 04-09-2007, 06:43 PM   #87
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Default Re: What to do with Richard ?

Good point.

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Old 04-09-2007, 07:00 PM   #88
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Default Re: What to do with Richard ?

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One has to admit, whether or not you like the story in SR or compare it to a soap opera(which I have at times), it is extremely difficult to figure out how everything will be resolved. Even the fan favorite superhero movies, one can agree can be pretty predictable, particularly the Spider-Man movies. With the inclusion of a character such as Richard, this story is anything but predictable. This movie challenges the viewer in a way that most superhero movies do not.
A love triangle with uncertain results is hardly challenging the viewer.

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Old 04-09-2007, 07:21 PM   #89
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A love triangle with uncertain results is hardly challenging the viewer.
With this kind of character(Richard) it is. I bet you can't tell me with certainty what will happen with him. In most superhero movies, its pretty easy to predict where the story will go and what will happen with certain characters. The same can't be said for SR.

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Old 04-09-2007, 07:28 PM   #90
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Default Re: What to do with Richard ?

Matt, I know what you mean about "challenging the viewer," but I don't think Flawless meant it like that. I think he meant "challenging" in that a viewer will have a hard time pinpointing the character's fate. Look at all of us on this thread. We have our opinions about what's best for a compelling story and what actually might happen based on Singer's tendancies, but when it comes down to it, we haven't got the slightest clue what to make of Richard.

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Old 04-09-2007, 07:34 PM   #91
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^Thank you scifiwolf, that's exactly what I meant.

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Old 04-09-2007, 07:52 PM   #92
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Default Re: What to do with Richard ?

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Matt, I know what you mean about "challenging the viewer," but I don't think Flawless meant it like that. I think he meant "challenging" in that a viewer will have a hard time pinpointing the character's fate. Look at all of us on this thread. We have our opinions about what's best for a compelling story and what actually might happen based on Singer's tendancies, but when it comes down to it, we haven't got the slightest clue what to make of Richard.
In that case I apologize to Flawless and thank you for the clarification Scifiwolf.

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Old 04-09-2007, 07:56 PM   #93
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In that case I apologize to Flawless and thank you for the clarification Scifiwolf.
No prob.

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Old 04-10-2007, 06:39 AM   #94
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Default Re: What to do with Richard ?

Another misunderstanding averted.

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Old 04-10-2007, 08:06 AM   #95
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Default Re: What to do with Richard ?

Whatever resolution they go for it seems it will demand a lot of screen time especially with the super kid being thrown in the mix and developing super powers and what not. We may get a villain cameo in all this.

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Old 04-10-2007, 09:06 AM   #96
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I dunno. If the next two are the same length as Returns, I can see there being enough time to have two great action flicks and a good story. Marsden and Routh both were able to make hard-hitting impressions in a short amount of time.

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Old 04-10-2007, 09:31 AM   #97
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Default Re: What to do with Richard ?

Actually, I thought Singer had planned with this story to "free" Superman of the constraints of a relationship with Lois, at least that was what I thought before seeing the film and discovering that they now have a child.
I really liked the idea of a single Superman without the love angle, without having to be with Lois, married or otherwise -- I think the whole Clark and Lois relationship is pretty boring and limits the Superman story.
Keeping Clark and Lois as competitive colleagues seemed to me more fun, like in the old George Reeves series. I think the comics have suffered from Clark and Lois being married over the past decade (I actually thought this would be fixed by the recent Crisis, but no luck).
I like the idea of Lois being with someone else, even if it's with Supe's child. Not all relationships are meant to be and the whole Lois and Clark romance is, in the end, a direct result of the corny Lois and Clark TV show from the early '90s and that's no real reason for Singer or any other filmmaker to follow that continuity.
It really shows how fans can be so easily manipulated -- a TV series-comic tie-in has, in the past decade, become canon in the Superman mythos. Why?
Does Luthoer now have to be a young good-looking guy who used to be Clark's best friend from Smallville? Of course not.
Time to re-write the canon, I say!




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This is a tough thread in which to post. I'll start by stating what a lot have said, that I loved Richard's character. He definitely was the best in the movie. That being said, I really have no clue what to with his character in the subsequent movies. I guess I'll just throw something out there...

Have Richard and Clark/Superman become better friends, in the same way that Bruce/Batman will both become friends with one person (like Gordon or Dent). Superman realizes Lois is better off with Richard, a human with whom she can make a real life. He also sees much of Jonathan Kent in Richard's character, and feels that Jason, his son, should be raised by Richard and Lois. If anything ever happens to Supes, he knows Jason is safely concealed with Richard and Lois and will be raised as the Kents raised him. I think Superman should end up alone. I think it suits the mythology.

Another thought, and someone already posted this, is that maybe Richard should find out Clark/Superman, as well as the fact that Jason is his son. I think the whole package of these events would be a great arc for the personal stories over two more movies (against the backdrop of supervillains, of course).


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Old 04-10-2007, 09:55 AM   #98
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Another misunderstanding averted.

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Old 04-10-2007, 01:26 PM   #99
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Actually, I thought Singer had planned with this story to "free" Superman of the constraints of a relationship with Lois, at least that was what I thought before seeing the film and discovering that they now have a child.
I really liked the idea of a single Superman without the love angle, without having to be with Lois, married or otherwise -- I think the whole Clark and Lois relationship is pretty boring and limits the Superman story.
Keeping Clark and Lois as competitive colleagues seemed to me more fun, like in the old George Reeves series. I think the comics have suffered from Clark and Lois being married over the past decade (I actually thought this would be fixed by the recent Crisis, but no luck).
I like the idea of Lois being with someone else, even if it's with Supe's child. Not all relationships are meant to be and the whole Lois and Clark romance is, in the end, a direct result of the corny Lois and Clark TV show from the early '90s and that's no real reason for Singer or any other filmmaker to follow that continuity.
It really shows how fans can be so easily manipulated -- a TV series-comic tie-in has, in the past decade, become canon in the Superman mythos. Why?
Does Luthoer now have to be a young good-looking guy who used to be Clark's best friend from Smallville? Of course not.
Time to re-write the canon, I say!
According to you, you want clark to abandon his responsibilites as a father, and ignore his love for Lois Lane, yea your and idiot. Thier are many other things idiotic about your post to.

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Old 04-10-2007, 02:40 PM   #100
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Default Re: What to do with Richard ?

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Originally Posted by FlawlessVictory View Post
One has to admit, whether or not you like the story in SR or compare it to a soap opera(which I have at times), it is extremely difficult to figure out how everything will be resolved. Even the fan favorite superhero movies, one can agree can be pretty predictable, particularly the Spider-Man movies. With the inclusion of a character such as Richard, this story is anything but predictable. This movie challenges the viewer in a way that most superhero movies do not.
It's a rediculous analogy to compare the Spider-Man films with Superman Returns. Raimi actually follows the comics with regards to the general arc of characters and story. So we know what will happen. Raimi actually understands Spider-Man and the Spider-Man universe and has been a fan since he was a boy. He respects it enough to give us the classic stories. Yes, he changes things for effect, but the underlying original vision is there. Every character in the films has already been established in the comics.

On the other hand, whether you like SR or not, it's pretty obvious that Singer isn't really a fan of Supeman the character, just the Donner films. He doesn't include anything about the character other than what he knows from the Donner films. The stuff that he did include that wasn't from Donner certainly showed he has little understanding for the character. Richard is a throw in character that doesn't exist in the real Superman anthlogy.

Your giving Kudos to Singer because he included a made up character that he can do anything he wants with, so we don't know what will happen. Wow, what a visionary!

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