Contest of Marvels II Thread 2

[Zoken]

Opening Comment: Namora vs. Alex Power

The environment gives more advantage to Namora as she has more ample access to water (there are lakes, rivers, and I assume ponds in this realm). Using those she can keep herself in top physical condition. She also has an advantage as she has now fought Alex before and will know how to fight him.

[Zoken]

Rebuttle:

She may be a good person, but she is also ruthless. this is not her world. she only cares about going home victorious.

[Harlekin]

Alex Power vs Namora

Then Alex has only one option left, to go head to head with Namora. With good tactical use of his powers, giving him a lot more versatility than Namora, he should be able to knock her out. She either can't hit him or hurt him, while he can pound in on her or fire energy blasts from afar.

WINNER=Alex Power

[Zoken]

To pound on her or fire energy blasts he has to be solid and Namora is fast and stronger and invulnerable. She can take whatever that c-lister can dish-out and slam him right back twice as hard. I said it before, and I'll say it again, she Namor, just with breasts.

[Harlekin]

Alex Power vs Namora

Except that he can use speed to run away from her, change his powers in the blink of an eye and use his gravity powers to keep Namora at bay if need be. He could just suspend her in the air by taking away her gravity, making it impossible for her to move. His gravity powers have numerous applications, and if he has the chance to experiment with them, he could logically pull off the increase of gravity, meaning she can't move. Besides that he can increase his density to be just as invulnerable or strong.

WINNER=Alex Power

[Zoken]

Invulnerable, yes, strong no. He would just be wacking away with the same force from a smaller body (remember, to work that density thing he has to compress himself and become smaller). And suspending her gravity is nothing, she can fly. And what is his maximum flight speed. again this is where the speed of power change makes me skeptical. also, lets remember that Jack was the one who experimented with powers, NOT Alex.

[Harlekin]

Except he could fly into her with the patent "Jack Hammer" technique. Jack may have been the one to experiment, but Alex will see no other choice but to also employ his siblings' tactics. I never said this would be an entirely easy match for him, as he's going to be on the ropes, and he therefore needs to be prepared, but also be able to improvise. Like I said, that means trying out new stuff and adapting the strategies of his siblings.

"Blink of an eye" was an exaggeration obviously, but the power change isn't slow enough to make much of a difference. Like I said, the match won't be easy but it's in his favour. He has a much more versatile power set.

WINNER=Alex Power

[Zoken]

But he will have to change powers, he can't use them at the same time, meaning flying into her and doing the "Jack Hammer" (has he ever used this move in the past?) means either he would go gasseous, waft over her, HOPING she doesn't notice, the solidify which would be pretty quick, but not much in the way of real impact OR: use the flight powers of Julie, aim at just the right point above him, the switch powers, canceling out his flight so he can switch to hyper dense and drop into her like some sort of improvised cannon ball. I doubt he has the proper calculative abilities to pull that off. that would take some serious aim. plus, Namora is invulnerable. she might have the wind knocked out of her at best if the second attack hit, and be slightly annoyed if the first one hit. He doesn't have what it takes to stack up against Namora who KILLED EVERY HERO ON HER PLANET.

[Harlekin]

Again, the "EVERY HERO ON THE PLANET" thing is incredibly overrated. She took out a novice X-Men and a novice Fantastic Four. After that she took control and there weren't any more heroes for her to kill. And heck, if she's killed more, it's all off-panel and we don't know which ones. If I recall correctly, we only actually saw her kill the X-Men (via a trap) and murder Richards.

Like I said, it'd be big time hit and run tactics, but as long as he can keep Namora reeling, he has the advantage. And that's really what it's all about, whether people think Alex has the skills to be able to do that. A guy that's been a superhero since he was a kid, and even served with the New Warriors. This isn't just a snot-nosed punk, he has more experience under his belt than most new heroes.

I'm perfectly willing to let it up to the voters, since all we'll ever do is go around in circles. I've given strategies on how I think he could take Namora down and you've done the same for Namora. I say Alex Power can win it, and should win it, but it's up to the voters as far as I'm concerned.

WINNER=Alex Power

[Zoken]

You say that he has to keep her reeling. I say he has to make her reel. he can't. he doesn't have the power to really put a dent in her, and after their first fight she will know that. his best option is to give up because she will destroy him. further more she took out an entire team trained to work together (They were trained as a team long before their title started). She took out people who were trained to fight as a team. She took out the Fantastic Four who started their title earlier than most others and therefore had some experience under their belts. she took out Reed Richards, the only way to do that is to be stronger and faster than he is smart. I say Alex has no chance. She has him out classed, out gunned, and out manuevered.

[Harlekin]

Trained to work together? Are you serious? The Fantastic Four were A) not all that good of a team in the first few issues, with the Thing angsting all the time, and Sue being a big old damsel in distress and B) They weren't much of a team before they became the Four. The Fantastic Four debuted in '61, the Avengers and the X-Men did so in '63. In comic time that's a difference of a few months. They really had little experience when they were killed by Namora. Seriously, the "KILLED ALL HEROES" argument is flawed since she killed what, ten heroes by herself, all with little experience?

As for Alex being able to affect her, I'd say he can, yes. Sadly, I don't have my New Warriors issues handy, or I could actually post some feats, but I don't see why he couldn't. He just needs to lower his density enough, or pound in on her with energy blasts, or use the gravity to his advantage. He has a chance, and he will capitalize on it.

WINNER=Alex Power

[Zoken]

So you are saying it is not at all possible that she killed the heroes at a time LATER than early in their careers? can you cite where it says she did? This is an alternate time line, you don't know how many hroes there were, which ones they were, what powers they had. You don't know. and if the Avengers were on the scene at the same time as X-Men and she killed "All the heroes" that means she took out the Hulk and Thor. Chew on that voters. and by the way "Trained to Work together" was on the X-Men, you can't say that I'm wrong. the very first pages in the very first issue show them training and doing quite well. Sorry I didn't specify that.

[Phaedrus45]

Famine



VS.

Lady Deathstrike




The fact this is a second match-up doesn't alter each character's game plan that much. Both were already fairly familiar with each other, and the only difference will be that Lady Deathstrike will realize her opponent is more formidable than she originally suspected. In fact, the only change is that Lady Deathstrike will be much more upset over the fact that her first fight went to a draw...and, with that will come her anger, the same kind she had for her other foes who continually bested her, like Wolverine. The first time, it was just a fight; this time, it's personal.

Now, my opponent and I probably don't have that much more to expound, as our first debate was quite lengthy to begin with. So, I'd like to highlight a few points from my first match that still apply:

*Take into account the fact that Lady Deathstrike is a Cyborg, which means "that (she) is an organism which adds to or enhances its abilities by using technology. Speculative cyborgs are frequently portrayed with a fine granularity mixture of organic and mechanical (synthetic) parts, such as the Borg in the Star Trek franchise", as can be seen from the following bio on Cyborgs:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyborg.

While a debate could be had about how much of Yuriko is or isn't mechanical, there is no question that she does still does contain organic parts, which would include her brain.

To add to this argument, the feeling of hunger that Famine inflicts upon her opponents would, in my opinion, still work. That effects the brain, and the brain would send the messages to her body, causing her to be ineffectual in a fight. Basically, all you can focus on is your hunger. And, even if Lady D doesn't need much food to survive, it's the idea that she needs it that will overwhelm her, not the actual need for food.

*Now, let's look at Famine: "Famine has the ability to emaciate any living organism. It may be that she manipulates her victims' metabolisms to the point where their bodies shrivel away from lack of food." Also, from another Marvel Database, the following information can be found:

• Famine is a mutant with the superhuman power to cause organic matter to turn to dust at will.
• She can also cause an emaciated state through physical contact.

So, whatever part of Lady Deathstrike is still organic can be effected.

I do need to point out that part of this is unfactual. Famine does not need to have physical contact with her opponent to effect them with her powers. If you look in Famine's first two appearances that involved fighting, X-Factor #24 and #25, you will see that she never once touched her opponents. She simply emitted waves or projective blasts from her hands, and rendered her opponents ineffective.

*Famine doesn't need to kill Lady Deathstrike, just immobilize her. She can do this by standing over her indefinitely, making sure her healing powers cannot regrow her organic parts.

Remember, all you have to do is incapacitate your opponent, not kill her. This will be done. For Lady Deathstrike to win, she'll need to actually get close to Famine. Famine doesn't need to be close. She can be a nice distance away, as shown in X-Factor 24 and 25.

*Famine is one of the four Horsemen of Apocalypse. She is being taken from this moment, and one of the facts is she'd have access to the materials that Apocalypse would have at his bases. This would include information about Lady Deathstrike and Avalon.

The location would definitely probaby have information in Apocalypse's database. I doubt that Lady D would have much access to that information.

*Both mentions of Famine's defeat have been when she's hopelessly out numbered, whether is was 4 to 1 or 6 to 2.

This is something I really want to point out. Famine's defeat has been when she's been hopelessly outnumbered. And, even in those instances, it's only been the actions of someone coming out of left field that surprised her.

I will acknowledge this is a tough match to vote for. My character isn't so well known, or given as much street cred, as Lady Deathstrike. She goes in already having a disadvantage in terms of voting. But, I sincerly believe she can take Lady D out of this fight. Also, Lady Deathstrike will be focusing on her rage of the first match going to a draw, that it will blind her in a way.

Winner = Famine

[Harlekin]

Alex Power vs Namora

Considering we were shown the X-Men still in their original training uniforms (and please correct me here if I'm wrong, but that's how I recall the issue), that would imply they are at the early stage of their career. Heck, if we can assume that they are at a later stage of their career, we can also assume they didn't have powers. They both makes about as much sense.

Sure, the X-Men trained quite well together and could hold their own in a fight against most foes, but they were also inexperienced and looking back, quite weak. Iceman threw balls of ice for crying out loud. It's only logical that Namora would be able to take them out, and lest we forget, she TRICKED them. They were meeting peacefully and the X-Men were ambushed and murdered.

As for the Avengers bit, I recall Thor returning to Asgard, but again I could be wrong. Then again, I don't think we ever even saw her facing the Avengers, and only got on-panel deaths for the X-Men and the Fantastic Four. Heck, using the old "it's an alternate reality anyway" we can just as well assume that the Avengers never existed.

[Zoken]

My point being if we assume that things are as you mentioned, then we can also assume that she took on the Hulk and thor.

I never saw the panels but... wait a second. She tricked the X-men. all of them. and you don't think she can out smart a pimple-faced teen who will probably be so busy staring at her ample and readily-displayed rack that Rhino could sneak up on him (I'm exagerating, but it's just so darn fun right now)

[Harlekin]

She tricked the X-Men into a peace conference. That's something a lot different then fighting. Alex and Namora are set onto Otherworld and they know they need to fight. The X-Men were going in under a white flag, thinking they could simply talk to Namora. They got killed. Totally different situation. I'm going to look in on the Avengers thing, though.

[kytrigger]

Rebuttal

Originally Posted by wiegeabo

Darkstar vs. Absorbing Man

Absorbing Man should have a difficult time getting any information on Darkstar. On the other hand, with all of her connections, Layina should be able to get enough information about Carl to figure out what he can do. And, if nothing else, the name Absorbing Man should clue her in on his powers. The same can't really be said for the name Darkstar.

I agree that Absorbing Man probably wouldn't get any info on her, but I doubt Darkstar could either. I thought it was established in this tournament that you can't actually use the connections of your character for info. (I'm pretty sure it was in the Kingpin match a few weeks ago). So while I don't think she would get any real info on the character, you might be right that his name clues her in somewhat, but nothing to actually give her a real advantage.

As tough as A-Man is, Darkstar will be able to put up a pretty good conventional fight. Her blasts could hurt Creel, or at least keep him at bay. Her flying and teleporting should be able to keep her safe from any of his attacks. Unfortunately, if Carl can absorb the right properties, he can become resistant to her attacks.

While her blasts would definately hurt Creel if he hadn't absorbed anything at all, that is unlikely to happen. The first thing he would do when he got there would be to absorb somethign, even if it is the ground and trees. While her flying would be a definate annoyance for him, he would most likely absorb somethign big (large trees, houses etc.) that would actually alllow him to grow so he could actually get to Darkstar. And while she might teleport once or twice to get out of a really tight jam, I doubt she would do it too often since teleporting leaves her weakened and disorientated for a little while.

Which is where Darkstar has to get unconventional. She can use her darkforce constructs to beat on Carl, keeping him off balance. She could even pin him harmlessly in the air, trapped in a sphere of darkforce. Well, you might say, Creel will just absorb the properties of the darkforce and escape. Problem is, if Creel becomes darkforce, then Darkstar can control him. That's a risky situation for Carl.

While it's an interesting twist, it wouldn't completely work. Yes she could trap him in the air, but he has almost certainly already absorbed several things that would make him strong enough to break through her darkforce devices.

As for him absorbing the darkforce into himself, I willl agree that I could definately see him doing that; however, I don't believe that Darkstar would be able to cotrol him though. The way she is able to control her darkforce is because she has a double in the darkforce dimension where she draws all of the energy from. By absorbing the Darkforce, first of all, Creel wouldn't become pure darkforce he still has other properties in him, and he never would have actually originated from the Darkforce Dimension where she actually draws her own darkforce.

I honestly don't think she could control him at all, but even if she could, it wouldn't be complete control seeing as how he would still have other properties in him, and the fact that he would simply be fighting back (something the darkforce doesn't do to her.) He would be able to fight back long enough to hit the ground, or at least touch somethig else to absorb (I mean he is alread touching the air anyway) and if he actually did know that she was partially controlling him, he would definately abandon the darkforce energy.

Layina also has the ability to teleport people with her through the darkforce dimension. So she could bring Carl along for the ride, and just leave him trapped in the dimension. She knows he'd survive by taking on the properties of the dimension, and he'd be removed from the battle until the match was over.

This is probably the only real way she could actually defeat Absorbing Man but it is a longshot. In order for her to actually teleport him, she would have to get in close, and that's when she dies. You might say that he won't know about the teleportation, but she has probably done it once or twice already in the battle. so he does know about her power. Also, as the fight goes on, I firmly believe that Creel will get more and more frustrated with her flying and actually absorb somethign that allows him to become a giant (he's done it before when he destroyed all of Asgard) and if ths is the case, I highly doubt that Darkstar could teleport someone that large.

Darkstar definately has a diverse set of attacks, but unfortunately none of them would actually be enough to stop Absorbing Man, and the longer he is out there, the more time he has to absorb things, and the more powerful he gets.

Winner- Absorbing Man

[wiegeabo]

Originally Posted by kytrigger

Rebuttal

I agree that Absorbing Man probably wouldn't get any info on her, but I doubt Darkstar could either. I thought it was established in this tournament that you can't actually use the connections of your character for info. (I'm pretty sure it was in the Kingpin match a few weeks ago). So while I don't think she would get any real info on the character, you might be right that his name clues her in somewhat, but nothing to actually give her a real advantage.

Darkstar wouldn't use people to get her information, but the resources available to the various organizations she's belonged to can still be used. And since Creel's identity is publicly known, Layina should still be able to use public resources like newspapers to get all she needs on him.

Originally Posted by kytrigger

While her blasts would definately hurt Creel if he hadn't absorbed anything at all, that is unlikely to happen. The first thing he would do when he got there would be to absorb somethign, even if it is the ground and trees. While her flying would be a definate annoyance for him, he would most likely absorb somethign big (large trees, houses etc.) that would actually alllow him to grow so he could actually get to Darkstar. And while she might teleport once or twice to get out of a really tight jam, I doubt she would do it too often since teleporting leaves her weakened and disorientated for a little while.

Granted, if Creel can absorb the right things, he can become very resistant to her blasts. But Darkstar's blasts would be use more as a distraction to keep him of bablance. To keep him from thinking long enough for her to trap him in the darkforce, or get close enough to teleport him and leave him in the darkforce dimension. If Creel does absorb, her blast can buy her time, keeping Creel back while she sets up another plan.

Originally Posted by kytrigger

While it's an interesting twist, it wouldn't completely work. Yes she could trap him in the air, but he has almost certainly already absorbed several things that would make him strong enough to break through her darkforce devices.

Possibly. But in the time he's blinded by the absolute darkness, she's moved in close enough to use her teleporting strategy.

Originally Posted by kytrigger

As for him absorbing the darkforce into himself, I willl agree that I could definately see him doing that; however, I don't believe that Darkstar would be able to cotrol him though. The way she is able to control her darkforce is because she has a double in the darkforce dimension where she draws all of the energy from. By absorbing the Darkforce, first of all, Creel wouldn't become pure darkforce he still has other properties in him, and he never would have actually originated from the Darkforce Dimension where she actually draws her own darkforce.

The darkforce is connected to the darkforce dimension by its very nature. Since it is a property of the darkforce itself, Creel has no choice but to absorb that property as well. And the second he's connected to that dimension, Layina can control him. Even with other properties absorbed in him, all Darkstar has to do is scatter his body across the land so it takes too long for him to pull himself back together and the fight is over. Or she can send all the darkforce parts of Creel's body back into the dimension, which would even more effectively scatter Creel's body.

Originally Posted by kytrigger

I honestly don't think she could control him at all, but even if she could, it wouldn't be complete control seeing as how he would still have other properties in him, and the fact that he would simply be fighting back (something the darkforce doesn't do to her.) He would be able to fight back long enough to hit the ground, or at least touch somethig else to absorb (I mean he is alread touching the air anyway) and if he actually did know that she was partially controlling him, he would definately abandon the darkforce energy.

Creel would find himself in bad shape before he even know what was happening.

Originally Posted by kytrigger

This is probably the only real way she could actually defeat Absorbing Man but it is a longshot. In order for her to actually teleport him, she would have to get in close, and that's when she dies. You might say that he won't know about the teleportation, but she has probably done it once or twice already in the battle. so he does know about her power. Also, as the fight goes on, I firmly believe that Creel will get more and more frustrated with her flying and actually absorb somethign that allows him to become a giant (he's done it before when he destroyed all of Asgard) and if ths is the case, I highly doubt that Darkstar could teleport someone that large.

All Darkstar has to do is blind Creel with a mass of darkforce. It wouldn't even have to touch him, just block his view. While he can't see, Layina gets in range and takes him into the darkforce dimension from which he never returns.

Creel has a lot of brawn, and some brains. But I think Layina's intelligence and training, plus her skills with the darkforce, can put her on top in this match.


Darkstar wins

[hippy fascist]

Lady Deathstrike vs Famine



Ok so a little more prepaired and a little less cocky these two face off again.

First off the crowd will play to lady D's strengths acting as a human shield and camoflage allowing her to stalk her pray like a lion in the undergrowth...

I've looked into famine and have found no references to instantaneous dustifying in the comics. What I have seen is famine emaciating people by speeding up their metabolisms from about 4-5 metres away. While she's throwing people in front of herself to absorb the effect of famines power lady d will be able to cover this distance in 1-2 seconds resulting in a clean slice to famine's chest taking her down.

Finally, lady D does not, I believe, have the traditional digestive system of a human being. What she can do to the likes of hank mccoy would not apply here as she is largely inorganic meaning the likelihood of a traditional stomach, intestines etc existing is minimal. I'll give you the brain but the traditional human digestive system is doubtful to say the least.

WINNER: LADY D!

[hippy fascist]

Originally Posted by Phaedrus45

Famine



VS.

Lady Deathstrike




The fact this is a second match-up doesn't alter each character's game plan that much. Both were already fairly familiar with each other, and the only difference will be that Lady Deathstrike will realize her opponent is more formidable than she originally suspected. In fact, the only change is that Lady Deathstrike will be much more upset over the fact that her first fight went to a draw...and, with that will come her anger, the same kind she had for her other foes who continually bested her, like Wolverine. The first time, it was just a fight; this time, it's personal.

Now, my opponent and I probably don't have that much more to expound, as our first debate was quite lengthy to begin with. So, I'd like to highlight a few points from my first match that still apply:

No argument thus far

*Take into account the fact that Lady Deathstrike is a Cyborg, which means "that (she) is an organism which adds to or enhances its abilities by using technology. Speculative cyborgs are frequently portrayed with a fine granularity mixture of organic and mechanical (synthetic) parts, such as the Borg in the Star Trek franchise", as can be seen from the following bio on Cyborgs:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyborg.

While a debate could be had about how much of Yuriko is or isn't mechanical, there is no question that she does still does contain organic parts, which would include her brain.

I'll concede on the presence of the occaisonal organ but in lady D's it has often be said that she is more machine than human. It is not unreasonable then to treat her as a machine that has some human parts (like krang in TMHT)

To add to this argument, the feeling of hunger that Famine inflicts upon her opponents would, in my opinion, still work. That effects the brain, and the brain would send the messages to her body, causing her to be ineffectual in a fight. Basically, all you can focus on is your hunger. And, even if Lady D doesn't need much food to survive, it's the idea that she needs it that will overwhelm her, not the actual need for food.

Actually she speeds up the metabolism causing the body to digest any remaining food and then move on to fat, muscle and tissue as it burns up anything it can get for energy. My thoughts, lady D doesn't have a traditional digestive system any more, for staraters it wouldn't be able to interact properly with her mechanical parts. The brain being hungry is not a problem since the problems it tends to cause are usually hunger pains and stomach cramps. If you don't have a stomach these can't effect you.

*Now, let's look at Famine: "Famine has the ability to emaciate any living organism. It may be that she manipulates her victims' metabolisms to the point where their bodies shrivel away from lack of food." Also, from another Marvel Database, the following information can be found:

• Famine is a mutant with the superhuman power to cause organic matter to turn to dust at will.
• She can also cause an emaciated state through physical contact.

So, whatever part of Lady Deathstrike is still organic can be effected.

Biography's are based on someone else's biassed view of a character so you should look for similarities in bio's, this occurs in one or two while the majority say she can simply emaciate her victims through manipulating digestion. In this case I think it is better to go with what every bio says rather than what 1 out of 100 points to.

I do need to point out that part of this is unfactual. Famine does not need to have physical contact with her opponent to effect them with her powers. If you look in Famine's first two appearances that involved fighting, X-Factor #24 and #25, you will see that she never once touched her opponents. She simply emitted waves or projective blasts from her hands, and rendered her opponents ineffective.

Sorry to break the rhythm with these big scan but I really have to hammer home the point that she is in fact NOT THAT POWERFUL. This is x-factor no24 and it shows her using her HUNGER-RELATED POWERS. Still nothing about dust and not nearly as lethal as would be necessary to take down someone like Lady D!

*Famine doesn't need to kill Lady Deathstrike, just immobilize her. She can do this by standing over her indefinitely, making sure her healing powers cannot regrow her organic parts.

Remember, all you have to do is incapacitate your opponent, not kill her. This will be done. For Lady Deathstrike to win, she'll need to actually get close to Famine. Famine doesn't need to be close. She can be a nice distance away, as shown in X-Factor 24 and 25.

5 metres can be closed in seconds by lady D. She'd be sliced in two by the time deathstrike even started to be effected by this power that I still maintain (and the scans above pretty much prove this) can't effect lady D. Certainly not to the extent of a normal, wholly organic person, such as ice man who got a bit shaken by her but still managed to pwn her ass! Certainly he is the kind of victim someone like famine was almost made for as his body is all water, therefore all organic but all she could do with him is stun him for a few seconds. She's not quite the powerhouse you described

*Famine is one of the four Horsemen of Apocalypse. She is being taken from this moment, and one of the facts is she'd have access to the materials that Apocalypse would have at his bases. This would include information about Lady Deathstrike and Avalon.

The location would definitely probaby have information in Apocalypse's database. I doubt that Lady D would have much access to that information.

She may have all the facts, but how is she going to use them? And as an international assasin/supervillain/mercenary don't you think lady D would be able to get information on a place like this in a heartbeat?

*Both mentions of Famine's defeat have been when she's hopelessly out numbered, whether is was 4 to 1 or 6 to 2.

This is something I really want to point out. Famine's defeat has been when she's been hopelessly outnumbered. And, even in those instances, it's only been the actions of someone coming out of left field that surprised her.

This is the key part. Previously this was one on one in an abandoned prison but this is in a bustling city offering lady D plenty of opportunities to blend in and wait for the right moment to strike. It's also going to limit the effectiveness of famine's powers as from what i've seen she can only effect one or two people at a time making it much harder to hit lady D. She's picked the wrong location for this fight and Deathstrike will exploit that for maximum potential.

Lady D wil wait till she's nigh on invisible amongst the crowd and pounce when she least expects it. Refering again to the scans it's clear that over confidence is a weakness famine is pretty guily of herself. It cost her then and it will cost her now.

I will acknowledge this is a tough match to vote for. My character isn't so well known, or given as much street cred, as Lady Deathstrike. She goes in already having a disadvantage in terms of voting. But, I sincerly believe she can take Lady D out of this fight. Also, Lady Deathstrike will be focusing on her rage of the first match going to a draw, that it will blind her in a way.

Winner = Famine

My research and the writing of this rebutal hav renewed my confidence in lady D. I still don't believe that she can effect Deathstrike but that is for the voters to decide.

So to some up my game plan, she's go in disguise(something she is a master of as a byproduct of being a freakin ASSASIN), blend in with the crowd and pounce at just the right moment using people as cover till she can slice that ***** in half!

WINNER: LADY DEATHSTRIKE

[kytrigger]

Originally Posted by wiegeabo

Darkstar wouldn't use people to get her information, but the resources available to the various organizations she's belonged to can still be used. And since Creel's identity is publicly known, Layina should still be able to use public resources like newspapers to get all she needs on him.

ok, I will agree that she can definately get some information using the organizations computers and whatnot. There will probably be some of the major events he's been apart of though that she will not have any info on (mainly his fights in Asgard), so while she migh tnot know how truly powerful he cna become, she does know his powers.

Granted, if Creel can absorb the right things, he can become very resistant to her blasts. But Darkstar's blasts would be use more as a distraction to keep him of bablance. To keep him from thinking long enough for her to trap him in the darkforce, or get close enough to teleport him and leave him in the darkforce dimension. If Creel does absorb, her blast can buy her time, keeping Creel back while she sets up another plan.

True, but Creel isn't going to just sit there. While she is flying around he will most likely start throwing things at her. While she will pretty easily dodge these (or at worst make a sheild and block them), that will serve only to frustrate Creel. There is only one other way for him to effectively combat her while she's flying, and that would be to grow. This is where her largest problem lies. When he grows, not only will her darkforce's effectiveness (even as a distraction) be minimized, but I highly doubt she will be able to teleport him if he is this size, which is still her best chance of defeating him.

Possibly. But in the time he's blinded by the absolute darkness, she's moved in close enough to use her teleporting strategy.

Once again that wouldn't work if he is a giant, also, this is where the location can come into play. Mystical properties can not only make the Darkforce visible, but can also neutralize it, and unfortunately for Darkstar, Otherworld is a mystical land brewing with all sorts of different magics. While I doubt her darkforce would be completely neutralized, it will most likely not work nearly as well as she's used to. This si especially true if Absorbing Man absobs some items of magivcal significance, which are almost everywhere in Otherworld. Hell, it's extrmely likely that he would have already absorbed something magical by the time they even got to each other to fight.

The darkforce is connected to the darkforce dimension by its very nature. Since it is a property of the darkforce itself, Creel has no choice but to absorb that property as well. And the second he's connected to that dimension, Layina can control him. Even with other properties absorbed in him, all Darkstar has to do is scatter his body across the land so it takes too long for him to pull himself back together and the fight is over. Or she can send all the darkforce parts of Creel's body back into the dimension, which would even more effectively scatter Creel's body.

True, and I agree that absorbing the darkforce would definately do Creel more harm than good, but once he does do that, he would instantly know that she is controlling parts of him. Take into the fact that he will be fighting back, will not be pure darkforce since he will have other elements still in him, and that her darkforce is not at its peak due to the mystical nature of Otherworld, and it will be easy enough fo rCreel to purge himself of the Darkforce and absorb something else. And remember, this is all based on whether or not Creel hasn't already absorbed magical properties that would negate teh darkforce anyway. Once he is powerful enough to make the darkforce useless, he won't absorb it (he'll think it is inferior).

Creel would find himself in bad shape before he even know what was happening.

H ewould see that it was a problem and get it out of him immediately.

All Darkstar has to do is blind Creel with a mass of darkforce. It wouldn't even have to touch him, just block his view. While he can't see, Layina gets in range and takes him into the darkforce dimension from which he never returns.

Already touhed on this so I'll just say
A) she won't be able to teleport him if he is a giant (something he is fond of doing)
B)her darkforce could very well be negated by the properties of Otherworld or from something Creel absorbed. Remember, Creel does like to absorb magical things (hell, I would to if it meant I could beat up Odin) and Otherworld has plenty of magic.

Creel has a lot of brawn, and some brains. But I think Layina's intelligence and training, plus her skills with the darkforce, can put her on top in this match.

I agree tath Darkstr would indeed be a very good opponent. She can use her darkforce in a variety of ways, unfortunately without it, she is screwed, and there are plenty of ways for her darkforce to be negated or even just hindered. Not to mention the fact that by growing on her Absorbing Man would negate the only possible way she can win (darforce intact or not) and that is by teleporting him.

Winner- Absorbing Man

[Phaedrus45]

Rebuttal:

Originally Posted by hippy fascist

Lady Deathstrike vs Famine



Ok so a little more prepaired and a little less cocky these two face off again.

First off the crowd will play to lady D's strengths acting as a human shield and camoflage allowing her to stalk her pray like a lion in the undergrowth...

In my opinion, the crowd does nothing for either of these two characters. Both have no qualms about killing anyone who gets in their way. And, Lady Deathstrike is not known for stalking her prey. For one thing, that woman sticks out like a sore thumb.

I've looked into famine and have found no references to instantaneous dustifying in the comics. What I have seen is famine emaciating people by speeding up their metabolisms from about 4-5 metres away. While she's throwing people in front of herself to absorb the effect of famines power lady d will be able to cover this distance in 1-2 seconds resulting in a clean slice to famine's chest taking her down.

She has the power, she just hasn't been made to use it. (But, when I get home, I'll check my references. I figure the Official Handbook will be source enough.) My reason for this is because in Captain America, she was sent to destroy the entire food supply of the American Heartland. To do that, she was going to basically destroy all of it with her powers.

As for how far away Famine has to be, if you look at the X-Factor appearances, and not just the pictures you provide, you will notice she is quite high up in the air while making the bodies of townsfolk shrivel up....much higher than 4-5 meters. This is false information about my character, plain and simple.

Finally, lady D does not, I believe, have the traditional digestive system of a human being. What she can do to the likes of hank mccoy would not apply here as she is largely inorganic meaning the likelihood of a traditional stomach, intestines etc existing is minimal. I'll give you the brain but the traditional human digestive system is doubtful to say the least.

Now, this is stretching the imagination to the extreme. With Cyborgs, I've never seen the digestive system's replaced. If you look at the picture you provide of Lady D, you can see she has human skin in her mid-section, and it's her arms and legs that have been rendered with mechanics. Since she is still partially human, she needs to sustain herself in some way. Plus, as I pointed out, part of Famine's power deals in telling the brain that they are hungry. People effected by Famine's powers are so overwhelmed with hunger, they cannot focus on anything but that hunger.

[Phaedrus45]

Originally Posted by hippy fascist

I'll concede on the presence of the occaisonal organ but in lady D's it has often be said that she is more machine than human. It is not unreasonable then to treat her as a machine that has some human parts (like krang in TMHT)

Yes, she is more machine than human right now...but, her mid-section, by all intents and purposes, as well as her brain, is still human and still organic. There is nothing in any directory to say any different.

Actually she speeds up the metabolism causing the body to digest any remaining food and then move on to fat, muscle and tissue as it burns up anything it can get for energy. My thoughts, lady D doesn't have a traditional digestive system any more, for staraters it wouldn't be able to interact properly with her mechanical parts. The brain being hungry is not a problem since the problems it tends to cause are usually hunger pains and stomach cramps. If you don't have a stomach these can't effect you.

Just like last time that you did with me, show me proof that she doesn't have a digestive system. It's not anywhere you can find, though. She needs a digestive system to maintain the still human parts of her body. And, the brain receiving signals of extreme hunger is more than what you make it out to be. If your brain is sending you a signal of extreme hunger, it will overwhelm you...far beyond simple hunger pains and stomach cramps. Basically, all you can focus on is your need for food...any food.

Biography's are based on someone else's biassed view of a character so you should look for similarities in bio's, this occurs in one or two while the majority say she can simply emaciate her victims through manipulating digestion. In this case I think it is better to go with what every bio says rather than what 1 out of 100 points to.

Actually, I gave you three biographies of the fact that Famine can turn organic material to dust. And, I think I only found about 5 biographies online, and the other two were only a sentence or two. So, 3-5 is much different than your 1-100.

Now, by what you just said, you have "0 out of however-many" that say Lady Deathstrike doesn't have a digestive system. I've backed up my claim with three sites. Where is your back-up? I've got mine in writing....yours is just conjecture and how you want Lady D to be.

Sorry to break the rhythm with these big scan but I really have to hammer home the point that she is in fact NOT THAT POWERFUL. This is x-factor no24 and it shows her using her HUNGER-RELATED POWERS. Still nothing about dust and not nearly as lethal as would be necessary to take down someone like Lady D!

If people want to look at your scan again, go ahead. But, first, I will point out that anyone can take a picture of a character being taken down. But, secondly, and more importantly, I want everyone to see that Iceman was using a special device to achieve what he did. (And, I want to point out how far away Famine is from Iceman in the picture of him doubling over in pain.) Famine is powerful enough to take on many characters, as I've pointed out she's gone 1 against 4 and 2 against 6 before. Those pictures would point out a very different story to the voters.

5 metres can be closed in seconds by lady D.

It only takes a second for Famine's powers to work. Lady D won't get a chance to touch Famine.

My research and the writing of this rebutal hav renewed my confidence in lady D. I still don't believe that she can effect Deathstrike but that is for the voters to decide.

Your research is filled with false claims about the human parts of Lady D, and presenting one bit of a comic to try and degrade Famine's powers. Plus, you fail to acknowledge that Apocalypse would know so much about Lady D that her defeat would almost be ensured.

So to some up my game plan, she's go in disguise(something she is a master of as a byproduct of being a freakin ASSASIN), blend in with the crowd and pounce at just the right moment using people as cover till she can slice that ***** in half!

Simply put, Lady D is NOT that kind of assassin. I ask the voters to think of every time you've read a story with Lady Deathstrike in it. Has she ever tried to blend into her environment? Has she ever used a disguise before? HELL NO!!! My opponent is simply making up scenarios and abilities that are not there. He's not focusing on her characters true abilities, but trying to convince you of human parts of her body that he believes should be mechanical. To him, the only part that would be human would be a small portion of the head. (BTW, what happens if Famine shrivels up Lady D's heart? or lungs? Wait, I guess she doesn't have a single organ in her body...just her lips are human. She even has a bionic vagina, I'm sure.)

THINK OF IT. My opponent doesn't get the liberty of making up bionic parts of a character that doesn't have any substantial backing-up. Her biographies say she still has human parts, and it only stands to reason that in order to sustain those parts of her body, she needs substinance of some kind. Plus, her body must still be controlled by a brain and internal organs.

Winner = Famine

[hippy fascist]

Lady D vs Famine Summation

Again a short one but I'm tired...

All of these people are going to make it difficult to use her powers effectively on lady deathstrike. Too many targets, too many human shields and too much confusion. Confusion that lady D can take full advantage of.

I still debate the dusty powers but we'll let that one lie I think otherwise it will never end

Finally this will be panic. It is one thing for famine to sit on her horse above the stampede, another thing entirely to be in amongst it. She is frail and weak (even after the horseman upgrade) she could easily get trampled in the ensuing panic, she wil be bufetted around and while she may kill off a few people it will still have a major impact on her. Which leads me to my secret weapon...

...for all this time you have been trying to convince the voters that lady d is a rampaging ball of psychopathic killing machine. Psychopathic killing machines don't get spooked by crowds and screams, it simply heightens the experience for them. Lady D will be in her element here and tear through thr crowd cutting a bloody swathe towards famine. She will grab people left and right to act as human shields and she will do this at superhuman-speed. There is in fact nothing to stop her throwing a few people at famine to knock her off balance. But as soon as she closes in for the kill, lady will D evicerate her.

And, for the final time, if she was as powerful as you claim no-one would have ever defeated her.

WINNER: LADY D

[Phaedrus45]

Rebuttal:

Originally Posted by hippy fascist

All of these people are going to make it difficult to use her powers effectively on lady deathstrike. Too many targets, too many human shields and too much confusion. Confusion that lady D can take full advantage of.

Well, I'm thinking when people see Famine and Lady Deathstrike, there won't be too many people around them. Why would people run towards dangerous people? Anyway, the important thing is below.

I still debate the dusty powers but we'll let that one lie I think otherwise it will never end

IMPORTANT BATTLE INFORMATION:

AS IT STATES FROM THE MASTER EDITION OF THE OFFICIAL HANDBOOK, "Ability to cause organic matter to turn to dust at will. Ability to induce extreme hunger in human beings and animals."

So, this comes from THE SOURCE...from Marvel directly. This should now be a mute point.

In fact, also from the Official Handbook, it states that Lady Deathstrike is an "psychologically unbalanced fanatic." This shows her reasoning ability is not exactly as good as you might think...and, the fact she had her first fight go to a draw will make her more irrational in her battle tactics.

...for all this time you have been trying to convince the voters that lady d is a rampaging ball of psychopathic killing machine. Psychopathic killing machines don't get spooked by crowds and screams, it simply heightens the experience for them. Lady D will be in her element here and tear through thr crowd cutting a bloody swathe towards famine. She will grab people left and right to act as human shields and she will do this at superhuman-speed. There is in fact nothing to stop her throwing a few people at famine to knock her off balance. But as soon as she closes in for the kill, lady will D evicerate her.

Yes, I have given proof that Lady Deathstrike is unbalanced, and that will be more of a detriment to her fight than a help. She will be lashing out, while Famine will have complete knowledge from Apocalypse's database to assist her in dealing with someone like Lady Deathstrike.

And, for the final time, if she was as powerful as you claim no-one would have ever defeated her.

And, for the final time, it's not me making these boasts. I'm taking the information I've found and researched, and I'm simply informing the voters to what I've discovered. Again, I backed up my claim about Famine's powers. I've shown three sources that back up her claims of power, and now I added a fourth by going to THE SOURCE for Marvel characters.

Winner = Famine