Contest of Marvels II Thread 1

[Hellstormer]

Originally Posted by Kitsune

Iorn fist, because if he couldn't overwhelm Helix's abilities, it would mean HElix is too powerfull.
Stong Guy, because Goblin should still be in the grave.
Sasquach because Blizard is just a punk who wares an icemaker.
and Mastermind, because Dazler isn't known for mental strength.

And you're about two days late.

[JewishHobbit]

Sunfire (Famine) Vs Sebastian Shaw

Sebastian Shaw is a powerhouse, but this isn't a match of Power. I think that both characters would know a little of one another through their mutual relationships (love hate) with the X-Men. Shaw may be able to get more information on Sunfire than Sunfire can get on Shaw, and that is to Shaw's advantage. However, to Sunfire's advantage, he isn't exactly the same Sunfire that would be in Shaw's Hellfire Club files and information. Sunfire has gained the abilities of the horsemen, Famine, and Shaw would have no idea how that works.

So here's the idea. I figure that Famine will be more headlong into the battle, while Shaw is more caculated. Shaw will figure that if he can get Famine into a cave or somewhere where there is no flight, he will be able to take away his advantage of flight. The problem is that Sunfire has never been stupid. The battle will begin and though Shaw will try to draw him into a cave, Sunfire will torch their entrances to keep Shaw out in the open. He will also immediately begin to spread the Famine effect from the air, which will wound Shaw's thinking immediately. He will still function, but he will be gravely distracted.

The thing with Shaw is that he is empowered by Kinetic energy, and if he could get Sunfire into a physical confrontation, he'd get the advantage, but Sunfire has never been a physical fighter. He will pour on the flames and the Famine effect, and Shaw is immune to neither. His skin can still burn as easily as the rest of us, and it will. He will starve horribly and will have no relief, and it will take it's toll. The sunfire of the past has always had an attitude, but I'm not sure if he'd actually kill Shaw,... however, he is now a horsemen of apocalypse (or at least recovering) and he now has a meaner streak. He would have no problem killing Shaw if needed.


In the end, Shaw won't even be able to touch him. He may try to throw stuff, but it will be incinerated before it hits. Shaw may try to hurt himself to give himself strength, but he can still burn. In the end, Shaw has no chance.

Winner - Sunfire (Famine)

[JewishHobbit]

Rebuttal

Now before I reply, I'm surprised how similar our accounts are. I want to clarify that I never read my oponant's write up before I write my own, so nothing in my story was in retaliation of this.

Originally Posted by Darthphere

Sebastian Shaw takes down Sunfire.
In Attilan the two meet up, these two have some knowledge of each other and probably have fought before. The one distinct advantage Sunfire has is his ability to fly. Sunfire would be shooting plasma blasts at Shaw causing some damage but since its all kinetic (moving) energy, Shaw would be able to become stronger and endure more of his attacks. The trick here is for Sebastian Shaw not to be affacted by Sunfires optic attack, and that would prove most difficult. As Sunfire would probably stick to the air, Sebastain Shaw would be forced to hurl objects from the ground to try to force him down, and he would be successful at this.

My first thing is that I'm fairly certain that a blast of fire isn't kinetic at all. It isn't moving or causing anytype of movement, as it's just basically flames and energy. I dont' recall Shaw ever getting stronger by flames before (though if I'm wrong, I'm willing to admit it). I don't think the flames would strength Shaw at all, but even if it did, he'd become stronger and such, but he's still flesh and bone and would burn just as easily, especially at the heat that Sunfire has going for him. Shaw wouldn't have time to build up a resistance before being a puddle of blood and bones.

I can't think of any way possible that Shaw would be able to not be effected by the Famine attacks. He wouldnt know how they work or how to save himself from them, and since Sunfire can do it from great distances, Shaw would be effected from the first moment of battle to the last.

Shaw might be able to hit sunfire with something, but it'd be difficult. He'd only get stronger by either A) hurting himself in some way, but he'd have to hurt himself, between keeping himself from being blasted by Sunfire, a very difficult task, or B) Sunfire's flames (if they DO in fact strenghtin him) but as I said before, he's still not fire proof, and he'd be dead before he had the chance to benefit from the blasts. And even if he does manage to get strong enough to throw something hard enough to knock Sunfire from the sky, he'd still have to dodge Sunfire's attacks, focus through the famine effects (something that was proven extremely difficult to do), and hit Sunfire with something before he incinerates it. I just don't see Sunfire coming out of the sky in this.

Once on the ground, Sebastian Shaw would be able to use his stored up physical strenght and lay a beatdown on Sunfire that he would wish he was still in Japan making Playstations. Tough match, but Sebastian Shaw is a very formidable foe and not one to take lightly, more powers doesnt equal better character remember that.

I agree that if it came down to a fist fight, Shaw could get the best of Shiro, but I don't think it'd come to that. Even if it did, Shiro would still use his flames (as he always does) and Shaw would be burnt to a crisp before he can benefit from the attack.

Winner - Sunfire (Famine)

[Phaedrus45]

Originally Posted by Hellstormer

Welll from the two appearences of Magnus he seemed to be pretty damn powerful and not above killing if it's towards the greater good and doesn't harm innocents so he might not do it if Attilan is populated. If not, Ezek's screwed.

Btw, Ezekial seems like an interesting character, did he have like a storyline or something that I could read?

Ezekial actually had an extensive storyline that appeared in Amazing Spider-Man. Due to numbering changes, I don't know how long it lasted. But, first appearance was AMS #30...then about 20 issues in, I think they switched back to the old numbering system. If I remember right, the storyline lasted a couple years.

Anyway, there isn't much I can debate with your character. Like I said, my only shot is that one chance. If the voters don't think he'd successed on the first attempt, then he won't get a second one. That's all I got.

[JewishHobbit]

Straczynski's first trade had a lot of Ezekiel, as did the trade called "Book of Ezekiel." A lot of good stuff happened in the middle too, but not necessarilly tied into Ezekiel (moreso tied into his teachings). I have all the "Best of Spiderman" hardbacks that cover everything from Straczinski's first issue to current and it's all in there. Poeple criticize it for changing a bit of Peter's origin (I don't think it does at all really) but it's actually a good read.

[Hellstormer]

Originally Posted by Phaedrus45

Ezekial actually had an extensive storyline that appeared in Amazing Spider-Man. Due to numbering changes, I don't know how long it lasted. But, first appearance was AMS #30...then about 20 issues in, I think they switched back to the old numbering system. If I remember right, the storyline lasted a couple years.

Ok after reaidng his full bio, not just the stats, it seemed like he ties into the recent Origin: Evolve or Die thing and he always ties into the society that Arana is in, so was his whole story an attempt at making Spiderman supernatural? I wonder if there are trades.

Originally Posted by Phaedrus45

Anyway, there isn't much I can debate with your character. Like I said, my only shot is that one chance. If the voters don't think he'd successed on the first attempt, then he won't get a second one. That's all I got.

Yea pretty one-sided battle, maybe even worse then Fenris vs. Blink.

[Darthphere]

Originally Posted by JewishHobbit

Rebuttal

Now before I reply, I'm surprised how similar our accounts are. I want to clarify that I never read my oponant's write up before I write my own, so nothing in my story was in retaliation of this.



My first thing is that I'm fairly certain that a blast of fire isn't kinetic at all. It isn't moving or causing anytype of movement, as it's just basically flames and energy. I dont' recall Shaw ever getting stronger by flames before (though if I'm wrong, I'm willing to admit it). I don't think the flames would strength Shaw at all, but even if it did, he'd become stronger and such, but he's still flesh and bone and would burn just as easily, especially at the heat that Sunfire has going for him. Shaw wouldn't have time to build up a resistance before being a puddle of blood and bones.

I can't think of any way possible that Shaw would be able to not be effected by the Famine attacks. He wouldnt know how they work or how to save himself from them, and since Sunfire can do it from great distances, Shaw would be effected from the first moment of battle to the last.

Shaw might be able to hit sunfire with something, but it'd be difficult. He'd only get stronger by either A) hurting himself in some way, but he'd have to hurt himself, between keeping himself from being blasted by Sunfire, a very difficult task, or B) Sunfire's flames (if they DO in fact strenghtin him) but as I said before, he's still not fire proof, and he'd be dead before he had the chance to benefit from the blasts. And even if he does manage to get strong enough to throw something hard enough to knock Sunfire from the sky, he'd still have to dodge Sunfire's attacks, focus through the famine effects (something that was proven extremely difficult to do), and hit Sunfire with something before he incinerates it. I just don't see Sunfire coming out of the sky in this.



I agree that if it came down to a fist fight, Shaw could get the best of Shiro, but I don't think it'd come to that. Even if it did, Shiro would still use his flames (as he always does) and Shaw would be burnt to a crisp before he can benefit from the attack.

Winner - Sunfire (Famine)

Kinetic is moving energy, the fire blast's energy itself is a different type of energy, but anything that moves has kinetic energy. Im no physicist, but thats what I remember from my Physics class. Also, the extent of the famine effect hasnt been measured to my recollection. I think its fair to say that he would have to be pretty close to put it into effect. Unless its been explicitly said, I dont think we can assume he can use it from large distances.

About Shaw being "flesh and bone" and being hurt, MAKAKKA! Most recently Colossus put a beat down on him and all he had was a little blood and a bruised cheek. Shaw can get extremely powerful hit to hit. I believe his endurance and dexterity would be high enough to withstand any assault from Sunfire.

To backtrack to the energy form part. I believe Shaw is able to harness the power of Cyclops optic blast and use that as kinetic energy and use his powers to that effect. I think its a coomn misconception he can only take physical hits as from a fist or something and use that.

It really just comes down to Sunfire's famine effect, which is the wildcard. We dont really know the extent of its use and if other past Horsemen are any indication, theyve never been unbeatable or that powerful. I still have faith that Shaw would be able to take down Sunfire but it be one hell of a fight.

[JewishHobbit]

Originally Posted by Darthphere

Kinetic is moving energy, the fire blast's energy itself is a different type of energy, but anything that moves has kinetic energy. Im no physicist, but thats what I remember from my Physics class. Also, the extent of the famine effect hasnt been measured to my recollection. I think its fair to say that he would have to be pretty close to put it into effect. Unless its been explicitly said, I dont think we can assume he can use it from large distances.

I'm still fairly certain that for something to be kinetic it needs to be a solid moving object, but I won't argue that as I'm not completely sure. The extent of Famine's attack was measured that all he had to do was fly in the sky (high in the sky at that) and every person on the ground, and even inside the Sentinels, was effected. It was enough to make people who KNOW Apocalypse is a dangerous enemy run to him for a cure (people like Sally Blevins and the Sentiel Drivers, etc.) Distance was no problem, and neither was barriors (sentinel armor). All they have to do is see him, and they're effected, and Shaw won't know not to look at him in a fight.

About Shaw being "flesh and bone" and being hurt, MAKAKKA! Most recently Colossus put a beat down on him and all he had was a little blood and a bruised cheek. Shaw can get extremely powerful hit to hit. I believe his endurance and dexterity would be high enough to withstand any assault from Sunfire.

Colossus did put a beatin on him, and it showed. His face was beaten and swallen and bruised. Face can hurt, fire can burn. Thing is, atomic fire beats metal anyday, and Sunfire has plenty to spare. if brick and stones and metal evaperates to Atomic fire, so will Sebastian Shaw.

To backtrack to the energy form part. I believe Shaw is able to harness the power of Cyclops optic blast and use that as kinetic energy and use his powers to that effect. I think its a coomn misconception he can only take physical hits as from a fist or something and use that.

Again, I'm not sure if Cyclops' blast can charge Shaw, but even if it could, it's explainable in that his blast is force, not heat or energy. It's like a HUGE punch (though commonl written wrong by writers). I can't think of a single example of him taking a pure energy hit and strengthening from it.

It really just comes down to Sunfire's famine effect, which is the wildcard. We dont really know the extent of its use and if other past Horsemen are any indication, theyve never been unbeatable or that powerful. I still have faith that Shaw would be able to take down Sunfire but it be one hell of a fight.

This has all been explained away above

[Phaedrus45]

bumpin' it all together

[WOLVERINE25TH]

NIGHT THRASHER vs. IRON MAN

At first glance this seems like an uneven fight, but the simple fact is IM ISN'T infallable. He isn't perfect. He can't see the future. He can anticipate. He can prepare. But that only gets you so far.

Thrash has gone up against foes much tougher than him before, and he always managed to come out on top through his street smarts. Which, by the way, is also coupled with the fact that he is also SMART smart in terms of technology. While he's not in Stark's league mentally, nor in terms of equipment, he can give IM one helluva chase. Especially with the stealth mode built into his suit.

Thrash has broken into Star Industries once, she he has a good knowledge of Stark's technology and how to get around it. Let's not forget about Attilan's technology that he could help make use of and set up traps for IM. As stated last round, all technology has the same basic origins, so it'd be easy enough for him to figure out some devices or weapons that he could use in the prep time against IM. Also, he could lure IM into some kind of trap by having his adamantium cable in his armor set up as a kind of trip wire. Adamantium vs. iron, not a good matchup.

And as much as IM knows about Thrash, he could know just as much. IM is a public figure and he's not without his resources. Finding out any chinks in the armor, so to speak, should be fairly simple. Also, while IM does have hundreds of armors at his disposal, traditionally his main suit is what he brings to the table unless going against some significant threat (eg Hulk or Thor). There would be some overconfidence on IM's part there, as my opponent was so kind to display for me. :P

WINNER: THRASH

[Phaedrus45]

Rebuttal:

Originally Posted by WOLVERINE25TH

NIGHT THRASHER vs. IRON MAN

At first glance this seems like an uneven fight, but the simple fact is IM ISN'T infallable. He isn't perfect. He can't see the future. He can anticipate. He can prepare. But that only gets you so far.

For Tony Stark, that would be more than enough to go against a B-lister who is pretty much forgotten in the 616.

Originally Posted by WOLVERINE25TH

Thrash has gone up against foes much tougher than him before, and he always managed to come out on top through his street smarts. Which, by the way, is also coupled with the fact that he is also SMART smart in terms of technology. While he's not in Stark's league mentally, nor in terms of equipment, he can give IM one helluva chase. Especially with the stealth mode built into his suit.

Actually, much is left out of that first sentence. It should read "Thrash AND THE ENTIRE NEW WARRIORS HAVE gone up against foes much tougher than him." That is much more appropriate. But, history is the biggest indicator to what will happen in the future. From New Warriors, Vol. 2, issue #9, the entire New Warriors face a rogue Iron Man and are promptly defeated, before Tony Stark can regain control himself. Sure, Night Thrasher wasn't involved in this issue; but, it goes to show how powerful even a rogue Iron Man is compared to Night Thrasher's group.



Also, Night Thrasher's "stealth mode" would not be effective with Tony's armor. Tony would know about the stealth mode in the Mach II armor, and be ready for it. After all, Dwayne's technology is nowhere near the level of Stark's.

Originally Posted by WOLVERINE25TH

Thrash has broken into Star Industries once, she he has a good knowledge of Stark's technology and how to get around it. Let's not forget about Attilan's technology that he could help make use of and set up traps for IM. As stated last round, all technology has the same basic origins, so it'd be easy enough for him to figure out some devices or weapons that he could use in the prep time against IM. Also, he could lure IM into some kind of trap by having his adamantium cable in his armor set up as a kind of trip wire. Adamantium vs. iron, not a good matchup.

First, Tony wouldn't be walking around to fall over a trip wire. (Heck, I can't remember Tony ever falling for a trip wire, anyway.) Second, Tony is all about security. There isn't a chance that Dwayne would have relevant information on Iron Man. Third, as pointed out, Night Thrasher's stealth would be no match for Iron Man's detection equipment. I'm highly doubting that Dwayne could even hide from Tony's sensors.

Originally Posted by WOLVERINE25TH

And as much as IM knows about Thrash, he could know just as much. IM is a public figure and he's not without his resources. Finding out any chinks in the armor, so to speak, should be fairly simple. Also, while IM does have hundreds of armors at his disposal, traditionally his main suit is what he brings to the table unless going against some significant threat (eg Hulk or Thor). There would be some overconfidence on IM's part there, as my opponent was so kind to display for me. :P

False. I am without a doubt positive that Night Thrasher could find anywhere near as much as Tony. It's never been shown in any of the comics that Night Thrasher has those resources, and I'm pretty sure he lost a lot of his money in one of the last appearances I remember by him.

Winner = Iron Man

[Iceman]

Rebuttal: Prodigy (Slingers) vs Donald Pierce

Originally Posted by Harlekin

Thing is, Prodigy just needs to hit hard enough to make sure Pierce won't be able to retaliate by the time the next hit comes in. Prodigy is that kind of guy, swoop in, punch the **** out of the guy, move out of the way and continue it again. He's going to wear Pierce down. Sure, Pierce is the more intelligent one of the two, and he's certainly going to be getting a few hits in, but that doesn't give him the automatic win either. In order to outsmart someone, you're going to need the time to think up a strategy. Prodigy won't be letting up on Pierce for a second, hitting, pounding and making sure he doesn't get up again.

If Prodigy is going to keep jumping/flying away (re the hit and run tactic that we were discussing), then he is letting up. If Pierce doesn’t get up, there’s no reason for Prodigy to jump/fly away so this doesn’t really offer an advantage to either character. As for time required to think up a strategy I’d expect both guys to be capable of thinking up strategies on their feet as the fight progresses (most comic characters seem to be able to do this). The difference is that the vastly experienced Pierce’s analysis and assessment of the situation will be far superior.

Originally Posted by Harlekin

Info, really, that doesn't go beyond a few articles on the internet. Neither is going to benefit a lot from prep-time, since information will be scarce. I'll give you that Pierce will be able to act a lot better on the info he has, though.

I would suggest Pierce is capable of going a lot further than internet articles. Even a normal guy with enough money can trace and infiltrate the inner circle of a regular guy attending high school, especially one as indiscreet as Prodigy. As we've established that the guy is a bit of a jerk, I bet people would be queuing up to give up bits of info at the right price (and facing the appropriate level of threat) that might lead to useful information. Some of Pierce’s Hellfire contacts collate intelligence as part of their daily work and would be able to help him analyse any weaknesses that they know of or discover from these or any other efforts. With whatever he manages to dig up (even if nothing) he can use his tech (from 200 yrs in the future - sorry to repeat points) and “genius” mechanical mind to enhance his cybernetic body to the ideal specification for his opponent.


(Ignore the above if any of the actions are not allowed during prep time.)

Originally Posted by Harlekin

I'm just saying that Prodigy won't be holding back.

OK. I won't dispute that. Pierce obviously has no reason to hold back either.

Originally Posted by Harlekin

It's A) the opinion of a Wikipedia editor, and b) not all that odd that he'd lose to Iron Man. Pierce would lose to Iron Man just as easily.

a) I'm guessing a fair number of arguments make use of Wikipedia entries, especially for the characters with which people are less familiar. The match threads link to wikipedia bios so we have to assume that the opinions carry some weight. Even the comics disagree on the extent of character's powers and who would win various fights, more so as writers change. The summaries and desriptions of powers etc could also be incorrect/exaggerated but I'm assuming that wikipedia is being treated as a trusted secondary source to the comics. Saying that, I’m happy to discount anything from the site if everyone else agrees to do the same.

b) I don’t think it would be as easy as the defeat of Prodigy but I better stop here as I'm only expressing my own opinions.

Originally Posted by Harlekin

Just because he's a juiced up jerk doesn't mean he can't win this.

True.

Originally Posted by Harlekin

Sure, Donald's got him in the experience, but Prodigy's got the recklessness of youth. The recklessness that makes Prodigy capable of tearing off Pierce's arms if he gets pissed, and Prodigy gets pissed often.

Hannibal Lecter will tell you that recklessness is not a requirement to be capable of mutilation. A guy like Pierce who can be mutilated without feeling pain/being overly affected will not be too worried at the prospect. But yeah, Prodigy certainly does get pissed often.

Originally Posted by Harlekin

What it really comes down to is if one thinks Prodigy is superior in physical prowess or not, and I think he is. Pierce has shown no extraordinary feats of strength or speed, relying primarily on his cybernetics, and more notably, his pals the Reavers, to take care of a foe. Prodigy's whole thing is that he has vast superhuman strength and likes to punch a lot.

If this was a straight fight based only on strength (and Pierce’s brain, tech and other advantages were somehow switched off) I’d give your boy a chance. I can’t say for sure that Pierce is stronger so I won’t.

Originally Posted by Harlekin

And he's going to like punching Pierce's head off.

I can't argue with that. If Prodigy had the ability, he would definitely enjoy it, and more than most.


A pleasure debating with you

WINNER=DONALD PIERCE

[Harlekin]

Prodigy (Slingers) vs Donald Pierce[/U]

If Prodigy is going to keep jumping/flying away (re the hit and run tactic that we were discussing), then he is letting up. If Pierce doesn’t get up, there’s no reason for Prodigy to jump/fly away so this doesn’t really offer an advantage to either character.

Extra momentum for harder hits.

As for time required to think up a strategy I’d expect both guys to be capable of thinking up strategies on their feet as the fight progresses (most comic characters seem to be able to do this). The difference is that the vastly experienced Pierce’s analysis and assessment of the situation will be far superior.

I'll give you that Pierce is probably the superior tactician.

(Ignore the above if any of the actions are not allowed during prep time.)

T'is ignored. I'm pretty sure they are wholly dependant on themselves.

a) I'm guessing a fair number of arguments make use of Wikipedia entries, especially for the characters with which people are less familiar. The match threads link to wikipedia bios so we have to assume that the opinions carry some weight. Even the comics disagree on the extent of character's powers and who would win various fights, more so as writers change. The summaries and desriptions of powers etc could also be incorrect/exaggerated but I'm assuming that wikipedia is being treated as a trusted secondary source to the comics. Saying that, I’m happy to discount anything from the site if everyone else agrees to do the same.

Wikipedia is a great source of information, but never for opinions. Heck, opinions aren't even actually allowed per Neutral Point Of View policy (NPOV for short). When you get down to it, most editors at Wikipedia (myself included) are rather biased, so comments that put a certain value to something (such as predictably) should be ignored.

If this was a straight fight based only on strength (and Pierce’s brain, tech and other advantages were somehow switched off) I’d give your boy a chance. I can’t say for sure that Pierce is stronger so I won’t.

I can't say for certain either, but Prodigy is certainly someone who's relied on his strength more often than not.

A pleasure debating with you

Certainly, till we face one another again.

WINNER=PRODIGY

[Phaedrus45]

Voting May Begin!

[Darthphere]

Prodigy
Iron Man
Sebastian Shaw
Magnus

[hippy fascist]

Prodigy
Sebastian Shaw
Ezekial
Night Thrasher (I hate Iron Man, not the fairest criteria but... these things happen )

[wiegeabo]

Donald Pierce
Iron Man (should be a really good fight to watch)
Sunfire
Magnus (as much as I want it to go to Ezekial, not sure it would)

[Phaedrus45]

*Donald Pierce

*Iron Man

*Sunfire - Famine

*Ezekial

[kytrigger]

Magnus
Iron Man
Sunfire
Donal Pierce

[Darthphere]

How much is Jewhob paying you all?

[Harlekin]

Prodigy (Slingers) - For obvious reasons
Iron Man - Trasher sadly doesn't stand much of a chance
Sunfire (Famine) - While absorbing the energy, Shaw would get burned to death, but nicely debated by both
Magnus (Exiles) - Sorry, but I don't think Ezekial could pull it off

[Hellstormer]

Prodigy

Iron Man

Sebastion Shaw

Magnus

[Iceman]

Donald Pierce
Iron Man
Sunfire
Magnus

[Phaedrus45]

Results So Far:

Prodigy currently tied with Donald Pierce 4-4
Iron Man currently beating Night Thrasher 7-1
Sunfire currently beating Sebastian Shaw 5-3
Magnus currently beating Ezekial 6-2

[Ahura Mazda]

Prodigy - good debate but if he got beaten by Wolverine....

Iron Man

Sunfire - A blast of fire would be kinetic energy but a furnace would not, plus I doubt the famine effect would have kinetic energy attached to it

Magnus - Sorry cannot see Ezekial taking this as magnus could just float far above the ground and take apart everything metallic until he finds ezekial