Contest of Marvels II Thread 1

[Phaedrus45]

Iron Man, of course

[POWdER-man]

Iron Man

[JewishHobbit]

I'm actually going back and forth on this one. I'm going to vote Iron Man, but I think they'd both win 5 out of 10.

[Ahura Mazda]

Pluto - as expected

[wiegeabo]

I'm really thinking Pluto can take this. But the advantage of Stark Towers and all the experience the Avengers had dealing with mystical beings (Tony would have access to those files, even if he wasn't on the team at the time) is huge.

Iron Man

[Phaedrus45]

Iron Man defeats Pluto 4-1

[Phaedrus45]

Iron Man (PHAEDRUS45) bio



VS.


Maestro (KYTRIGGER) bio

[Phaedrus45]

LOCATION: The Hostel (Runaway's Base)

Not much information I find online. The location isn't occupied, and it would be before events that led to its destruction. Here is just a brief sentence explaining the location: "The runaways retreat to an underground hideout they call "the Hostel;" it is a mansion that was buried during an earthquake. The police eventually discover the Hostel, and Nico destroys it to facilitate escape."

[Ahura Mazda]

Originally Posted by Phaedrus45

Iron Man (PHAEDRUS45) bio



VS.


Maestro (KYTRIGGER) bio

This is the final and that is something.

First off, I think both Iron Man and Maestro have a great knowledge of each other, but wait actually Iron man really only knows the Hulk and not Maestro and he will be in for a great surprise.

For those who want to look at past Iron Man / Hulk battles, please go the link and scroll down:

Hulk Battles

You will notice in most of the battles Hulk trashes Iron Man's armour. The only battle where Iron Man knocked out the Hulk, was where he had to use every iota of energy his armour had, and he then shut down and Stark almost died.

Iron Man has even had not much success with his Hulk Buster armour against the normal Hulk. Now Maestro, is basiclly the Hulk to the power of 2. He is twice as strong, has a stronger healing factor, is faster and to top that he is a genius who is criminally insane. Maestro has no qualms about killing someone.

Iron Man who has lost repeatedly against the Hulk does not stand much of a chance against the Maestro.

Maestro Smashes

[Phaedrus45]

Maestro vs. Iron Man:

So, we have a future, alternate Earth Hulk versus the current Tony Stark (or, at least current before Civil War). First, a chance to reintroduce voters to Maestro:

After a nuclear war kills almost all of Earth's superhumans and brings the world to the brink of extinction, the Maestro seizes control.
Gray haired and balding, the Maestro is clearly older than the Hulk, but is also significantly stronger due to the radiation he has absorbed since the war. He rules the city of Dystopia, built to his own designs and protected by radiation shielding. Brutal soldiers with hi-tech equipment keep the "peace" and impose the Maestro's iron will. The Maestro himself dwells in a grand palace, where a Bacchanalian atmosphere reigns. Other gamma-irradiated beings, She-Hulk (now calling herself "Shulk") and the Abomination, survived the war and seem to have conquered other areas of the world.

After the Hulk's recovery, the two clash once more; but despite the Hulk's best efforts, the Maestro is still far too powerful for him. At the last minute, the Maestro is defeated by the use of Doom's time machine, and sent back to the time and place that the Hulk was created: ground zero during the testing of the atomic Gamma Bomb, the only bomb that the Hulk knew the ground zero location of. Appearing next to the bomb itself, Maestro is seemingly killed in the same moment that creates the Hulk,[1] but some part of his consciousness still remains, tied to the skeletal fragments at the Gamma Bomb site.

The question remains if Professor Hulk would have shared any information about Maestro to those people who might need to know about what the future possibly held? For me, I think it might be a good possibility that Tony Stark would have some information on Maestro. (He'd at least know he's a future version of The Hulk by seeing his picture, that's for sure.)

Now, from what I read, Maestro didn't defeat Earth's heroes, but kind of fell into a lucky situation from the nuclear war. Maestro is an alternate future, which means many of the situations that Tony Stark has gone through wouldn't be known to him, like the Extremis Armor. Also, Tony has the Hulk Buster Armor, and while we recently saw it fail in World War Hulk, that comic isn't usuable in this situation, and that version of the Hulk is much, much more deadly than the Maestro.

Tony does have 24 hours to try and come up with a plan on taking out The Hulk. If he knows about how Professor Hulk used a gamma bomb to eliminate him, he might try to come up with some power that he can use to attack him with the same weapon that changed him in the first place. Luckily, the location is unpopulated (and, more than likely, that mansion isn't going to hold up very well. I have a feeling the action will quickly go outside, because the mansion will be in ruins.)

Thus, I think Tony Stark has a good advantage if you look at his new armor, his old Hulkbuster Armor, 24 hour prep time, and knowledge of the Hulk and how gamma radiation might benefit him in this match-up.

Winner = Tony Stark(Iron Man)

[Ahura Mazda]

Maestro vs. Iron Man:

Originally Posted by Phaedrus45

So, we have a future, alternate Earth Hulk versus the current Tony Stark (or, at least current before Civil War). First, a chance to reintroduce voters to Maestro:



The question remains if Professor Hulk would have shared any information about Maestro to those people who might need to know about what the future possibly held? For me, I think it might be a good possibility that Tony Stark would have some information on Maestro. (He'd at least know he's a future version of The Hulk by seeing his picture, that's for sure.)

I doubt he has because the Professor was part of the Pantheon which was not on great speaking terms with the Avengers. And we know the Hulk certianly did not have any conversation of the sort with Tony.

Originally Posted by Phaedrus45

Now, from what I read, Maestro didn't defeat Earth's heroes, but kind of fell into a lucky situation from the nuclear war. Maestro is an alternate future, which means many of the situations that Tony Stark has gone through wouldn't be known to him, like the Extremis Armor. Also, Tony has the Hulk Buster Armor, and while we recently saw it fail in World War Hulk, that comic isn't usuable in this situation, and that version of the Hulk is much, much more deadly than the Maestro.

Actually it is uncertain it seems some may have been defeated by Maestro eventhough I would state that most died because of the nuclear war. However, regarding the armour, Tony's armour is fallible and the Hulk almost always has overcome it. This armour would not have a fate any different from the other ones. And the Maestro remains twice as strong (base strength) as the normal Hulk. Plus he is an insane genuis and as such will be able to plan for Iron Man.

Originally Posted by Phaedrus45

Tony does have 24 hours to try and come up with a plan on taking out The Hulk. If he knows about how Professor Hulk used a gamma bomb to eliminate him, he might try to come up with some power that he can use to attack him with the same weapon that changed him in the first place. Luckily, the location is unpopulated (and, more than likely, that mansion isn't going to hold up very well. I have a feeling the action will quickly go outside, because the mansion will be in ruins.)

First off, getting a gamma bomb to go off next to Maestro is not a simple task especially as we are in a base where there is not much room to fit one and transporting it would be difficult, as well as Iron Man would be destroyed in the blast as well. So I think you can stop that line of thought.

And Tony Stark has yet to come up with a gamma weapon against the Hulk. He never was able to before.

Originally Posted by Phaedrus45

Thus, I think Tony Stark has a good advantage if you look at his new armor, his old Hulkbuster Armor, 24 hour prep time, and knowledge of the Hulk and how gamma radiation might benefit him in this match-up.

I actually think Iron man is heavily handicapped against the Maestro who is stronger, has a very powerful healing factor (he came back from nothing), is fast and virtually invulnerable.

Winner = The Maestro

[Phaedrus45]

Originally Posted by Ahura Mazda

Maestro vs. Iron Man:



I doubt he has because the Professor was part of the Pantheon which was not on great speaking terms with the Avengers. And we know the Hulk certianly did not have any conversation of the sort with Tony.

There are a few clues that provide that the Avengers might have information about the Pantheon. First, Agamemnon is a half-human and half-Asgardian god. Since Agamemnon is half-Asgardian, Thor would know about him, and the Avengers frequently fought against Asgardians or have been afflilated with them; thus, they would likely have information about various Asgardians, especially with information gathered from Thor. Second, Hulk is a person who the Avengers always have kept information on; after all, he is a past Avenger. Thirdly, the Pantheon were ultimately recruited by the United States government. The Avengers would likely have information then. Finally, even the Avengers has made an appearance within the issues relating to the Pantheon.

Actually it is uncertain it seems some may have been defeated by Maestro eventhough I would state that most died because of the nuclear war. However, regarding the armour, Tony's armour is fallible and the Hulk almost always has overcome it. This armour would not have a fate any different from the other ones. And the Maestro remains twice as strong (base strength) as the normal Hulk. Plus he is an insane genuis and as such will be able to plan for Iron Man.

Here is my thoughts on this. It's not always backed up really by the comics; but, I've always found a problem in how many characters have fought the Hulk. We've seen in the "Search for the She-Hulk" storyline from Avengers that Jack of Hearts used his powers to revert knock out and help contain both Hulk and She-Hulk. It would seem to me that Tony Stark and other geniuses could find a way to use radiation to defeat Hulk (and Maestro). In my thoughts, Tony Stark would take the information in the Search for the She-Hulk" storyline and use the same methods with his armor. A man of Tony Stark's genius would have a means to replicate this. (Sadly, Marvel Comics wouldn't like to show that Hulk can be defeated so easily. Thus, we always have fist-a-cuffs.)

First off, getting a gamma bomb to go off next to Maestro is not a simple task especially as we are in a base where there is not much room to fit one and transporting it would be difficult, as well as Iron Man would be destroyed in the blast as well. So I think you can stop that line of thought.

It wouldn't be a bomb...but, Tony could take the information of how Hulk and possibly Maestro has been defeated in the past and use it with his armor. Radiation effects the Hulk, and there would be ways with the proper armor that Tony can take the battle to Maestro.

I actually think Iron man is heavily handicapped against the Maestro who is stronger, has a very powerful healing factor (he came back from nothing), is fast and virtually invulnerable.

At first, Iron Man does seem handicapped. But, remember that now Tony has access to all electronics around him. So, anything usable in this Mansion of the Runaways is his to use. Any security defenses can be controled by Tony Stark. Also, even though Maestro might be stronger and all, he's also quite a bit older. When we get older, we lose some of our previous strengths. Tony is still a young man, and quicker of mind, in my opinion.

Winner = Iron Man

[Ahura Mazda]

Originally Posted by Phaedrus45

There are a few clues that provide that the Avengers might have information about the Pantheon. First, Agamemnon is a half-human and half-Asgardian god. Since Agamemnon is half-Asgardian, Thor would know about him, and the Avengers frequently fought against Asgardians or have been afflilated with them; thus, they would likely have information about various Asgardians, especially with information gathered from Thor. Second, Hulk is a person who the Avengers always have kept information on; after all, he is a past Avenger. Thirdly, the Pantheon were ultimately recruited by the United States government. The Avengers would likely have information then. Finally, even the Avengers has made an appearance within the issues relating to the Pantheon.

The Hulk never reported of his encounter with Maestro. It would have been stupid of the Professor to do this. How do you think the story would have come across that he becomes twice as powerful but criminally insane in the future and that he will try and rule most of the world. I am not sure that is a story he really wants people to hear. Plus he was a founding member of the Avengers but then ended up battling them in issue #3. He does not share information with them.

Originally Posted by Phaedrus45

Here is my thoughts on this. It's not always backed up really by the comics; but, I've always found a problem in how many characters have fought the Hulk. We've seen in the "Search for the She-Hulk" storyline from Avengers that Jack of Hearts used his powers to revert knock out and help contain both Hulk and She-Hulk. It would seem to me that Tony Stark and other geniuses could find a way to use radiation to defeat Hulk (and Maestro). In my thoughts, Tony Stark would take the information in the Search for the She-Hulk" storyline and use the same methods with his armor. A man of Tony Stark's genius would have a means to replicate this. (Sadly, Marvel Comics wouldn't like to show that Hulk can be defeated so easily. Thus, we always have fist-a-cuffs.)

It is acnon that with all of his Hulk buster armours he has never been able to siphon off the power of the Hulk. To say that here he would all of a suden find a way is hard to imagine. Plus all he knows is he is facing a Hulk like creature, not that he is facing a future version of the Hulk. And one thing to note is that not all Hulk like creatures are the same nor have exactly the same strengths. That is a big hole in your argument as there is no certainty to EXACTLY who Iron Man is facing.

Originally Posted by Phaedrus45

It wouldn't be a bomb...but, Tony could take the information of how Hulk and possibly Maestro has been defeated in the past and use it with his armor. Radiation effects the Hulk, and there would be ways with the proper armor that Tony can take the battle to Maestro.

First off I seriously doubt he has that type of information to the point I would be willing to bet he does not. And radiotion often strengthens the Hulk unless you are going to suggest Iron man will develp Silver Surfer powers. Don't forget that Tony Stark is no gamma specilist and he is not on the same level as Reed Richards. Plus Maestro has all the genius of Banner. He is however criminally insane so he does not hold back.

Originally Posted by Phaedrus45

At first, Iron Man does seem handicapped. But, remember that now Tony has access to all electronics around him. So, anything usable in this Mansion of the Runaways is his to use. Any security defenses can be controled by Tony Stark. Also, even though Maestro might be stronger and all, he's also quite a bit older. When we get older, we lose some of our previous strengths. Tony is still a young man, and quicker of mind, in my opinion.

I thought the Runaways base had very little tech and relied mostly on mystical weaponry. Tony is not going to find much stuff here as this is not Stark Tower . And Old for the Hulk does not change much given his healing factor.

Winner = Maestro

[Phaedrus45]

Originally Posted by Ahura Mazda

The Hulk never reported of his encounter with Maestro. It would have been stupid of the Professor to do this. How do you think the story would have come across that he becomes twice as powerful but criminally insane in the future and that he will try and rule most of the world. I am not sure that is a story he really wants people to hear. Plus he was a founding member of the Avengers but then ended up battling them in issue #3. He does not share information with them.

It's not a rare thing for a hero to discover that they have an evil alter-ego in a alternate reality or future version. Even Tony has a few of these. I doubt they'd judge Hulk any differently because he visited a future Earth that we all know will never happen. (These futures never do come to pass, after all.)

It is acnon that with all of his Hulk buster armours he has never been able to siphon off the power of the Hulk. To say that here he would all of a suden find a way is hard to imagine. Plus all he knows is he is facing a Hulk like creature, not that he is facing a future version of the Hulk. And one thing to note is that not all Hulk like creatures are the same nor have exactly the same strengths. That is a big hole in your argument as there is no certainty to EXACTLY who Iron Man is facing.

Iron Man will know of how Jack Of Hearts was able to subdue She-Hulk and Hulk. That information would be very valuable; it's kind of ridiculous, like I said, that the comics always have a physical fight, when there are obviously different ways to subdue Hulk. (But, of course, the comics wouldn't be that interesting if that happened each time.)

Anyway, I'm happy enough to end this contest at this point. You can rebutt a final time, and then we can bring this horse to the finish line finally.

[Ahura Mazda]

Originally Posted by Phaedrus45

It's not a rare thing for a hero to discover that they have an evil alter-ego in a alternate reality or future version. Even Tony has a few of these. I doubt they'd judge Hulk any differently because he visited a future Earth that we all know will never happen. (These futures never do come to pass, after all.)

The Hulk is not Iron Man who is a member of a team. He is an anti-hero who does not have a good public opinion to begin with. I just do not think he would have mentionned it.

One thing to note in a What If where he became the Maestro, all the other chracaters were caught unawares and had no knowledge of this new personality of the Hulk.

Originally Posted by Phaedrus45

Iron Man will know of how Jack Of Hearts was able to subdue She-Hulk and Hulk. That information would be very valuable; it's kind of ridiculous, like I said, that the comics always have a physical fight, when there are obviously different ways to subdue Hulk. (But, of course, the comics wouldn't be that interesting if that happened each time.)

This is a comic book world with comic bok rules and Iron Man was never able to use this strategy you mention before nad he is unlikely to use it now.

Originally Posted by Phaedrus45

Anyway, I'm happy enough to end this contest at this point. You can rebutt a final time, and then we can bring this horse to the finish line finally.

Sounds good, thank you for organising it

Winner - Maestro

[Phaedrus45]

Originally Posted by Ahura Mazda

The Hulk is not Iron Man who is a member of a team. He is an anti-hero who does not have a good public opinion to begin with. I just do not think he would have mentionned it.

One thing to note in a What If where he became the Maestro, all the other chracaters were caught unawares and had no knowledge of this new personality of the Hulk.




This is a comic book world with comic bok rules and Iron Man was never able to use this strategy you mention before nad he is unlikely to use it now.

Just two notes: One, What If is not usable for the debate. Two, while certain things happen or don't happen in comics, our contest goes beyond the comics. (After all, if many of our battles were to happen in comics, there would be different outcomes. We're simply using what we believe our characters would have learned and then made logical conclusions.)

[Phaedrus45]

Voting May Begin!!!!

[wiegeabo]

I think that if anyone can take out Maestro, it's Tony. But right now, I'm not convinced. So my vote goes to...


Maestro

[Phaedrus45]

Iron Man


BTW, I saw the preview for Iron Man when my boy and I saw the new Resident Evil...it's looks wicked! (Of course, the preview for Fantastic Four 2 with the Silver Surfer had the same effect on me, and who knew that would be the best scene in the entire movie.)

[Ahura Mazda]

Maestro

[JewishHobbit]

I agree with W. I do think Iron Man may be able to come up with something but I'm not really sure what, and Phaed didn't quite tickle that funny bone to make me certain of it. Thus, I do believe that Maestro would come out on top of this battle. Good job to both of you!

My vote: Maestro

[POWdER-man]

Iron Man - it was a toss up, so it came down to potential and I think Tony could come up with a better plan.....

[Phaedrus45]

Well, we end with a whimper...but, since we had only 5 votes last time, I think that's all we'll get.

MAESTRO WINS 3-2!!!!

[Ahura Mazda]

Bravo to Kytrigger wherever he is...