2008 Presidential Election: Gore/Clinton

[sithgoblin]

This is damn interesting and raises some great points:

Ozone Man, a new rival for Hillary
By Anne Summers
Sydney Morning Herald September 28, 2006

SENATOR Hillary Clinton's presidential ambitions may be about to encounter an unexpected obstacle in the form of the Ozone Man, her husband's former vice-president, Al Gore.

For the past couple of years America - indeed much of the world - has been fascinated by the prospect of whether Clinton might succeed George Bush to become the first woman in the White House. It is no secret that she has been stalking the national political stage, recalibrating her policies towards a more mainstream platform and raising money by the bucketful.

Her husband, Bill, who was president from 1992 to 2000, was described last week by New Yorker magazine as "the advance man in chief", spruiking his wife in Iowa and New Hampshire, whose primaries can determine who gets the nomination.

Gore represents a potential wrinkle in this scenario. Instead of Bush-Clinton-Bush-Clinton, what about Clinton-Gore followed, after the Bush interregnum, by Gore-Clinton? This is how it would work.

Decision time is fast approaching for Team Hillary. Clinton easily won the Democratic nomination for US senator for New York earlier this month and will be re-elected in November. The pressure will then be on her to declare her presidential intentions. Those close to her are reported as saying there is an 80 to 90 per cent chance that she will make the historic bid.

The only thing likely to stop her is a hard-nosed assessment that she could not win the presidency. It has been assumed that the Democratic nomination was hers for the taking. As a cover story on Clinton in Time magazine last month put it: "If Hillary ran and lost, both Clintons would come out tarnished - no small consideration when a promising Senate career and a presidential legacy are in the balance."

Hillary Clinton's political plusses are considerable. No other candidate has ever enjoyed her 100 per cent name recognition, and about 53 per cent of voters have a favourable impression of her, a Time poll shows. Against this, her negatives are high, both with the anti-war Democratic heartland and red state Republicans who think she is the devil. People love her or they hate her; there's not much middle ground. Nevertheless she would only have to hold all the states John Kerry won in 2004 and win one more. Not impossible. In fact, it would seem quite doable if Bush's low ratings flow on to the Republican candidate.

What no one had factored in was the possibility of a highly credible contender for the Democratic nomination. Suddenly Al Gore is everywhere, restoring his reputation and staking a claim to be the man who can save the planet, a task that has taken on a considerable urgency according to the scenario outlined in his film An Inconvenient Truth. He also has the considerable advantage of not having the pro-Iraq war baggage carried by members of Congress (all of whom voted to endorse the invasion). He would not divide the Democratic Party the way Hillary Clinton does.

This is not to say he does not have negatives himself. Gore is hardly charismatic. He has none of the sizzle the Clintons bring to barnstorming. He has already lost one presidential bid, so might be seen as not deserving a second chance. However, in 2000, Gore did win the popular vote and it is conventional wisdom that had he not declined Bill Clinton's offer to campaign for him, he might have got over the line.

The revulsion expressed by the morally upright Gore for the scandal-studded Clinton was palpable and quite possibly cost him the presidency.

Today things are different. Gore has emerged from the Clinton shadow. He is an energised and interesting political figure, a credible climate crusader who engages people in a way that was once unimaginable. Wooden Al is now witty Al. "I used to be the next president of the United States," he likes to say. Maybe he still is. He declines to rule it out.

This is Clinton's nightmare. In six years she has made a remarkable transformation from first lady to respected senator and seemed set to continue her political trajectory to at least try to go where no woman has gone before. The thought of being derailed by the plodding Gore must drive her crazy. But she is also pragmatic and she might soon have to decide if she wants to go into history as a senator or as a vice-president.

For a Democratic dream team it's hard to go past a Gore-Clinton ticket. The combination of Gore, the stolid untarnished statesman with eight years of national experience (who four years ago predicted the Iraq war would be counter-productive for the war on terrorism) and Clinton, the political superstar who is also female, could give Americans a more palatable electoral option than the riskier Clinton-led ticket.

Gore would never agree to be running mate to another Clinton, so although Hillary would need a vice-presidential candidate from the South, it is hugely unlikely she could bring him on board. And would Clinton set aside her larger ambitions? It is hard to imagine because she is a risk taker. I can't see her doing it, but then again, she has everything to lose.

[rdh007]

I, for one, won't support her in the primary. But I'd have no choice but to vote for her in the general election.

[Sentinel X]

I dont think Ill be able to vote...but if I could, itd be Gore all the way

[Kmack]

I'm voting for Hilary because she's a woman

[Sentinel X]

^^^Are you serious?...You'd vote for someone based on their sex and not what they have to offer?

[sinewave]

at the very least, hillary has an experienced political thinker in her corner. i'm not thrilled with her but i think she'd do a decent job. i just worry about the possibility of the majority of republicans snubbing her and attempting to sabotage her presidency, were she to win.

[Mr Sparkle]

Originally Posted by sinewave

at the very least, hillary has an experienced political thinker in her corner. i'm not thrilled with her but i think she'd do a decent job. i just worry about the possibility of the majority of republicans snubbing her and attempting to sabotage her presidency, were she to win.

it's really weird that democrats ***** and moan about not having someone with a backbone and as able a politician as the GOP yet fail to back the woman that has been exactly that. (methinks it's largely because SHE IS a woman) that people hate her. for instance
all politicians are insincere, I didn't just make that up, it's fact.
but when Hillary does it, everyone's like "what a *****", when W does it it's like "awesome, G dub really understands the common man"

LOL.

[Ghostvirus]

I think that this would be a very smart ticket. Hilary could really open the door for other women. I mean just being V-Pres. is a huge step in direction of change. If the dem. are smart I would not be surprised to see this ticket happen.

[NOFX]

If gore was to pick a Woman Vice President it has to be Governor Kathleen Sebelius of Kansas! Why is she a better candidate? Number 1 GOP dont see her as a devil and she actually respected by alot of republicans and she's a female democrat of all people! Get her if you want to win 2-3 Republican states, The Dems would be unstoppable!

[Mr Sparkle]

Originally Posted by NOFX

Governor Kathleen Sebelius of Kansas!

I used to read Sebelius

[StorminNorman]

If I had to vote for one or the other, I would actually take Clinton. Sure, she's a (possibly evil) *****, but atleast she is a wickedly brilliant woman. Gore IMO is nothing but a SNL joke.

[NOFX]

Originally Posted by Mr Sparkle

I used to read Sebelius

LOL!

No seriously she would be candidate if she ran!

She has alot of things going for herself!
Early political career:
She was first elected to the Kansas House of Representatives in 1986. In 1994, she "left the House to run for state insurance commissioner and stunned political forecasters by winning--the first time a Democrat had won in more than 100 years. She is credited with bringing the agency out from under the influence of the insurance industry. She refused to take campaign contributions from insurers and blocked the proposed merger of Blue Cross and Blue Shield of Kansas, the state's largest health insurer, with an Indiana-based company. The decision by Sebelius marked the first time the corporation had been rebuffed in its acquisition attempts.

Governorship
Sebelius defeated Republican Tim Shallenburger in the 2002 election by a vote of 53%-45%. Her victory was partially the result of a bitter divide between conservatives and moderates within the Kansas Republican Party. This divide is touched upon in Thomas Frank's bestseller What's the Matter with Kansas?. Since winning election, Sebelius has successfully built upon her popularity and as of January 2006 was one of the most popular governors in the country.

Gun ownership laws
A hunter herself[1], she vetoed, like her Republican predecessor Bill Graves, a concealed carry law that would have allowed guns to be carried into the Statehouse, churches, and private establishments against the wishes of the property owner.[3] In her veto message, Sebelius said she supports Kansans' right to own firearms but does not believe a broad concealed carry law would make them safer. "I don't believe allowing people to carry concealed handguns into sporting events, shopping malls, grocery stores, or the workplace would be good public policy. And to me the likelihood of exposing children to loaded handguns in their parents purses, pockets and automobiles is simply unacceptable."

Other views
After the Kansas economy reached its lowest point in over a decade early in her term, the economy has since experienced 22 months of continuous job growth. Kansas has thrice balanced the budget, and not raised taxes significantly during her term.[citation needed] Sebelius did not support the April 2005 amendment that would make gay marriage in Kansas unconstitutional. Sebelius said she "supported the existing state law and viewed it as sufficient, " [6] and therefore opposed any such amendment.
Sebelius is pro-choice on abortion and a supporter of Roe v. Wade. Sebelius also does not support capital punishment; during her term as governor, the Kansas capital punishment laws were declared unconstitutional by the Kansas Supreme Court. In 2006, Sebelius approved a controversial state education budget that largely benefits rural and impoverished areas of Kansas while providing little additional benefit to more established and affluent districts. Not one representative from Kansas' wealthiest county, Johnson County, voted in favor of the budget, as the budget diverts funding from affluent school districts, favoring rural and impoverished districts.


2006 re-election campaign
On May 26, 2006, Sebelius formally announced her candidacy for re-election. Four days later, Mark Parkinson, former Kansas state GOP Party Chairman switched his party affiliation to Democratic; the following day Sebelius announced that Parkinson will be her running mate. Parkinson had previously served in the state House from 1991-92 and the Senate from 1993-97. This was somewhat reminiscent of the fact that John Moore had also been a Republican, before switching just days prior to joining Sebelius as her running mate.[7] She is being challenged by Republican Kansas State Senator Jim Barnett. A September 1 Rasmussen poll showed Sebelius with an 11% lead over Barnett. [8] However, as of 2004, 50% of Kansas voters were registered Republicans, compared to 27% as registered Democrats.

Speculation on political future
During the 2004 election, Sebelius was often named as a potential running mate for John Kerry.[10][11] In May 2004, Kerry accepted an invitation from Sebelius to attend a Governor’s Proclamation Ceremony in Topeka to mark the 50th anniversary of the Brown v. Board of Education decision.[12] In the aftermath of Kerry's defeat in the 2004 presidential election, some pundits named Sebelius as a potential candidate for the Democratic nomination for President in 2008. Some of Sebelius' political leanings, including support for abortion rights and opposition to capital punishment, are unusual for a governor of Kansas, and many contend that her appeal would be broad among Midwesterners.[citation needed] She has been mentioned by political commentators as a possible Vice Presidential nominee in the 2008 election.[13] It is possible that — building on her ability to win statewide election in Kansas, a heavily Republican state — in 2010 she may seek to become the first Democrat from Kansas to serve in the United States Senate since 1939. [14] Sam Brownback, current Senator from Kansas, a rumored prospective candidate for the 2008 presidential election, currently occupies that seat, and has vowed not to serve beyond the two terms he has already been elected to.


Recognition
In 2001, Sebelius was named as one of Governing Magazine's Public Officials of the Year while she was serving as Kansas Insurance Commissioner.[15]

In November 2005, Time named Sebelius as one of the five best governors in America, praising her for eliminating a $1.1 billion debt she inherited, ferreting out waste in state government, and strongly supporting public education - all without raising taxes. Also praised was her bipartisan approach to governing.[16]

In February 2006, the White House Project named Sebelius one of its "8 in '08", a group of eight female politicians who could possibly run and/or be elected president in 2008.

[jaguarr]

Would you please stop posting the same crap about Sebilius in every single '08 Presidential thread?

jag

[NOFX]

Originally Posted by jaguarr

Would you please stop posting the same crap about Sebilius in every single '08 Presidential thread?

jag

Not until she officially runs!

[jaguarr]

Originally Posted by NOFX

Not until she officially runs!

Then make your own thread for her and stop running off topic in everyone elses threads.

jag

[NOFX]

Originally Posted by jaguarr

Then make your own thread for her and stop running off topic in everyone elses threads.

jag

I been thinking about that but I would be more inclined to put all the 2008 Democrat president hopeful's into one thread instead. Some kind of Deathmatch kind of thing like some of you hypester's been doing.

[jaguarr]

Originally Posted by NOFX

I been thinking about that but I would be more inclined to put all the 2008 Democrat president hopeful's into one thread instead. Some kind of Deathmatch kind of thing like some of you hypester's been doing.

The point is that it's rude to just interrupt people's ongoing conversation about a particular topic and then burst in like you have politico-tourrette's and start going "Sebilius! Sebilius! *long post with a bunch of information about her*". Seriously, give her her own thread if you think she's such a worthy candidate. If she's THAT great then she DESERVES her own thread, not to be tacked onto a footnote in threads that have nothing to do with her.

jag

[Darth Elektra]

That story is intresting! thanks for posting up.

[jaguarr]

The part that I think is in the back of many people's minds when it comes to the subject of Hillary being in the White House is that Bill would be there with her and could help repair some of the damage that has been done since he left office. Add that to the name recognition and it makes people give some serious consideration to having her as President. The problem I see with her is that she's a bit of a polarizer; people either love her or hate her. She'd have some serious challenges in trying to unite folks when we really need that to be happening. I think she's a bit too calculated in her policy, too, trying to appeal to everyone (she likes the Mets AND the Yankees, you know) and by doing so tends to come off as soft and a bit lacking in resolve on many issues which alienates a lot of voters.

jag

[SentinelMind]

Gore/Clinton? I'm willing to be the house that won't happen. If Gore wanted to get completely out of Clinton's shadow, why choose a running mate who has even more name recognition that he does? What does Clinton bring to the ticket as VP? Women will bring him the White House.....tell that to Walter Mondale.

Hillary is too polarizing, she'll divide the country and she can't win the general election. Even if she WERE able to win the White House, I frankly don't think she'll get anything done because the GOP will have deep-seated hatred for her and will turn on the attack-machine for months. She's most famous for Hillarycare, which was abandoned by Democrats. What has she done in the Senate that makes her more deserving of the White House than other women Senators and governors?

I think Gore could win nomination and election, but he'd have to choose someone like Mark Warner as VP (although I'm worried if Gore were to choose Warner and Gore/Warner lost, that'd screw over Warner's presidential bid in 2012 ). I think Gore is more electable in that he's actually proven himself, he has the history, experience, gravitas and clout, he has the knowledge of domestic affairs. Plus, he now has enough charisma and wit to get people's attention. What can the rightwing say about Gore? Massachussets liberal? They'll say that about anyone. He supports the environment? whooaaa. He invented the internet. oh man...I don't see what rightwingers can use against Gore. Gore can always trump about getting us out of this war. No other Democrat has that credibility.

[Spider-Bite]

Originally Posted by Mr Sparkle

it's really weird that democrats ***** and moan about not having someone with a backbone and as able a politician as the GOP yet fail to back the woman that has been exactly that. (methinks it's largely because SHE IS a woman) that people hate her. for instance
all politicians are insincere, I didn't just make that up, it's fact.
but when Hillary does it, everyone's like "what a *****", when W does it it's like "awesome, G dub really understands the common man"

LOL.

I have to say that is a very accurate post!

[hippie_hunter]

Originally Posted by rdh007

I, for one, won't support her in the primary. But I'd have no choice but to vote for her in the general election.

That's the problem with many Americans these days. They'll support a candidate just because of the party. Vote for the person, not the party, make the candidates earn your vote, don't make them take it for granted.

[hippie_hunter]

Originally Posted by SentinelMind

Hillary is too polarizing, she'll divide the country and she can't win the general election. Even if she WERE able to win the White House, I frankly don't think she'll get anything done because the GOP will have deep-seated hatred for her and will turn on the attack-machine for months. She's most famous for Hillarycare, which was abandoned by Democrats. What has she done in the Senate that makes her more deserving of the White House than other women Senators and governors?

Don't forget she's a fake. I don't know how the hell she won my state's senate seat in the first place. She's not even from New York and she became a citizen just so she could run. And you're right she is too polarizing. If she won, the roles of the Republicans and Democrats would be reversed.

I think Gore could win nomination and election, but he'd have to choose someone like Mark Warner as VP (although I'm worried if Gore were to choose Warner and Gore/Warner lost, that'd screw over Warner's presidential bid in 2012 ). I think Gore is more electable in that he's actually proven himself, he has the history, experience, gravitas and clout, he has the knowledge of domestic affairs. Plus, he now has enough charisma and wit to get people's attention. What can the rightwing say about Gore? Massachussets liberal? They'll say that about anyone. He supports the environment? whooaaa. He invented the internet. oh man...I don't see what rightwingers can use against Gore. Gore can always trump about getting us out of this war. No other Democrat has that credibility.

I think if Gore doesn't do anything stupid like another Kyoto Protocol, I think he'd be a good President. Domestic wise anyways.

[Chris B]

The Democrats will need to nominate a moderate in '08 if they want to win, so a Gore/Clinton ticket would be something to try to avoid.

Now that Mark Warner is not running, what is the consensus on Evan Bayh? He was both the Governor and now a Senator from Indiana, a Red State. He may have the needed crossover appeal that the Democrats will need.

[NOFX]

Originally Posted by cb48026

The Democrats will need to nominate a moderate in '08 if they want to win, so a Gore/Clinton ticket would be something to try to avoid.

Now that Mark Warner is not running, what is the consensus on Evan Bayh? He was both the Governor and now a Senator from Indiana, a Red State.

Democrat Governor Kathleen Sebelius of Kansas!