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Old 06-04-2007, 11:46 PM   #276
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Default Re: Michael Keaton Appreciation Thread

I just saw Bruce Wayne 29's sig campaigning for Keaton to be in DK Returns if it was ever brought to film. I hadn't even seen that before I thought of him being cast in it. Odds are he won't be as old as depicted in the book, but I'm just wondering who'd you want Caviezel to play. Joker? Dent? The Mutant gang leader?

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Old 06-05-2007, 10:36 AM   #277
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Default Re: Michael Keaton Appreciation Thread

Superman actually. Though he could also be a nice choice as Dent.

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Old 06-05-2007, 03:12 PM   #278
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Default Re: Michael Keaton Appreciation Thread

Kurt Russell would be a better Batman for TDKR than Keaton . . . imo

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Old 06-05-2007, 04:26 PM   #279
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Default Re: Michael Keaton Appreciation Thread

Oh yeah, great thread!!! Keaton, the best Batman ever!

He had the voice and everything, so what if he wasn't huge or whatever, he had that essence, and he looked like how Bruce was drawn by alot of artists, the arched eye brows and so on.

I could care less about Bale, his Bat-voice is too forced. And talks like he has a mouth full of spit.

Keaton was and is the man, The Bat-Man.

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Old 06-06-2007, 02:17 PM   #280
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Default Re: Michael Keaton Appreciation Thread

Keaton was definitely a kick-ass Batman, but Bale tops him b/c Bale had the fighting style. Keaton seemed more like 'I'll-just-stand-here-while-you-run-into-my-fists'...like Steven Seagal almost.

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Old 06-06-2007, 02:28 PM   #281
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Default Re: Michael Keaton Appreciation Thread

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Keaton was definitely a kick-ass Batman, but Bale tops him b/c Bale had the fighting style. Keaton seemed more like 'I'll-just-stand-here-while-you-run-into-my-fists'...like Steven Seagal almost.
I fail to see how, since he actively went after thugs and beat them up as well.

I think you need to rewatch Keaton's fight scenes.

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Old 06-06-2007, 02:29 PM   #282
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Default Re: Michael Keaton Appreciation Thread

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I fail to see how, since he actively went after thugs and beat them up as well.

I think you need to rewatch Keaton's fight scenes.
Not like Bale he didn't. Bale could crack bones just by pointing at them.

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Old 06-06-2007, 03:18 PM   #283
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Default Re: Michael Keaton Appreciation Thread

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Not like Bale he didn't. Bale could crack bones just by pointing at them.
Right. And Keaton didn't do much fighting in that suit. There was a stunt double there guys. Bale did more stunt scenes in his suit than Keaton did in B'89.

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Old 06-06-2007, 03:29 PM   #284
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Default Re: Michael Keaton Appreciation Thread

Actually like Bale Keaton did a lot of his stunts in the fight scenes. He even learned kickboxing for that movie.

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Old 06-06-2007, 03:53 PM   #285
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Default Re: Michael Keaton Appreciation Thread

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Actually like Bale Keaton did a lot of his stunts in the fight scenes. He even learned kickboxing for that movie.
There were only two real fight scenes in B'89. In the alley after the escape from the museum and in the cathedral at the end. Both were done with stunt doubles. If you watch the cathedral scene closely you can see that it is not Keaton in the suit during the more hard core fighting. That showed true even on the Topps trading cards for the movie.

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Old 06-06-2007, 05:36 PM   #286
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Default Re: Michael Keaton Appreciation Thread

Keaton did as much as he was allowed to in B89. There's much confirmation that Keaton did what he could in '89, the DVDs ("Michael wanted to do everything himself"), and books on Batman Returns confirm through chief stuntman David Lea that he taught Keaton kickboxing. On teaching him more for Returns, Lea said "There's really not much more I could teach him" and that Keaton was "a fast learner."

It's not that Keaton was afraid to do his own stuff in '89, or that he couldn't (Like some people like to believe), it was moreover the suit. The suit was so restrictive on the first film that even if he could do a great portion of the stuff (which he could), he didn't look as pro as a more experienced stuntman would. Keaton did plenty of physical work in B89, though. The hardest of which was kicking the thug through the door in the opening "fight", Keaton said that his hip "has never been the same" because it was like "1,000 rubber bands holding you down". When he delivers the kick, you can see how much it hurts him in his face!

Keaton also delivered the final beatdown of the Joker himself. Running, jumping and other material was hard enough in the suit, so it's not like Keaton didn't work his ass off. It's also confirmed that he did work out for the film to get into much better shape.

Thanks to a more flexible suit design on Returns, though, Keaton did most (if not all) of his own stuntwork, and he definitely did all of the fighting the second time around.

Let's remember to keep things in perspective. Keaton and Bale are both equally as tough as Batman (and probably out of character, though Bale is much younger), the difference is that Bale's material was filmed a lot more agressively. He just looks tougher in his fights, Keaton is no less lethal, and I think anyone who says different needs to look again. Take a step back and lose the hype for a minute, aside from being more physically imposing and have a different fighting style, Bale is no more of a badass than Keaton was. It's all in the script and the director. Burton was no action director by any stretch.

I mean, if you prefur Bale, that's perfectly fine. But let's give Keaton his due credit and realize that just because of the hype behind Bale and because his film made him look tougher, doesn't mean Keaton's any less of a threat. Not to mention Keaton being much older than Bale when he played Batman proves how in-shape he was. Keaton had at least 10 more years on Bale when he did Returns and he still pulled it off. Not easy in your 40s.

Stuff about Bale "cracking bones by looking at them" is such fanboyism. Let's get real in the discussion if we're going there. If you're going to compare the two, at least give Keaton the credit he deserves. Keaton can hold his own with the best of the Bats.

I could never understand why the anti-Keaton extremeists (nobody here, I'm just going off on a tangent) just took his being a few inches too short for Batman as a declaration that he was fat, out of shape and balding. Keaton's only physical shortcoming is being too short. That's it. His performance is another discussion, but physically, he was just behind by about five inches.

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Old 06-06-2007, 05:47 PM   #287
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Default Re: Michael Keaton Appreciation Thread

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There were only two real fight scenes in B'89. In the alley after the escape from the museum and in the cathedral at the end. Both were done with stunt doubles. If you watch the cathedral scene closely you can see that it is not Keaton in the suit during the more hard core fighting. That showed true even on the Topps trading cards for the movie.
To be fair, Cain did just say "a lot" not "all." And it's true, as I said before, Keaton did a lot of his own stunts.

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Old 06-06-2007, 07:53 PM   #288
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Default Re: Michael Keaton Appreciation Thread

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Stuff about Bale "cracking bones by looking at them" is such fanboyism. Let's get real in the discussion if we're going there. If you're going to compare the two, at least give Keaton the credit he deserves. Keaton can hold his own with the best of the Bats.

I could never understand why the anti-Keaton extremeists (nobody here, I'm just going off on a tangent) just took his being a few inches too short for Batman as a declaration that he was fat, out of shape and balding. Keaton's only physical shortcoming is being too short. That's it. His performance is another discussion, but physically, he was just behind by about five inches.
What fanboyism? It's true. Irrespective of how restrictive the costume(s) was/were, Bale still fought better than Keaton did. I agree Keaton was a kick-ass Batman but when it comes down to how Batman himself acted, I feel Bale did a better job b/c he was more aggressive.

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Old 06-06-2007, 08:15 PM   #289
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Default Re: Michael Keaton Appreciation Thread

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What fanboyism? It's true. Irrespective of how restrictive the costume(s) was/were, Bale still fought better than Keaton did. I agree Keaton was a kick-ass Batman but when it comes down to how Batman himself acted, I feel Bale did a better job b/c he was more aggressive.
If you really want me to get technical... The aggressive nature is not a constant in Batman's history. In fact, he's never been remotely animalistic. Bale's portrayal was an entirely new spin on Batman in that regard, so it's down to a matter of opinion. You like Bale's more aggressive portrayal, fine. But you seem to insinuate that that's typically how Batman is portrayed, when if anything, Keaton was closer to the "stock" portrayal of Batman; calm and collected, rarely aggressive.

And whoever "fought better" is a matter of opinion as well. My only point was that a different, less brutal fighting style doesn't make Keaton any less lethal than Bale. One fighting style can be just as effective as another. Now, Bale has the muscle mass to put more power into Keysi, but Keaton was frightningly experienced/fierce in, say, the Batman Returns street fight.

I think it just comes down to the fact that that's the essence of the two portrayals, reflected in the fighting styles. Keaton (Kickboxing): Passive, calm, calculating. Bale (Keysi): Aggressive, animalistic.

And by "fanboyism" I meant the over-the-top statement "Bale can break bones by pointing at them" being used as some kind of solid argument.

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Old 06-06-2007, 08:22 PM   #290
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Default Re: Michael Keaton Appreciation Thread

Back on the subject of Keaton: I found this great shot of him from Desperate Measures.....

Now, we've no conclusive evidence that this is the shape he was in for the Batman films, but it's highly likely. It wouldn't make sense for him not to get into this kind of shape in the first place. I'd actually be willing to bet that he looked this good for Batman, as he trained for the film, and he was younger than in "Measures".


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Old 06-06-2007, 11:21 PM   #291
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Default Re: Michael Keaton Appreciation Thread

He wasn't like that for Batman. Even so, he's still not very big ... even in that picture.

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Old 06-06-2007, 11:30 PM   #292
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Default Re: Michael Keaton Appreciation Thread

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He wasn't like that for Batman.
And you'd know that how...?

Like I said, no conclusive evidence that he was, aside from the fact that it would make sense. And therefore, no conclusive evidence that he wasn't. I'd say the odds are less likely in favor of a "no" than a "yes."

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Even so, he's still not very big ... even in that picture.
The point is that he's in shape. I'm not trying to claim he was a bodybuilder or anything... I don't know where you get the idea that I need to be corrected.

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Old 06-06-2007, 11:35 PM   #293
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He wasn't like that. You can see pudge on him when he's forced to wear the turtle neck in the cave. If you claim there is no cocnlusive evidence that he didn't look like that, why would it be likely he would? He was covered fully at all times. In the scene where he is hanging he does't looked that ripped.

The point was Keaton went to certain lengths to look like that for Desperate Measures, because he had to in order to potray the character as written in the screenplay. So knowing that he got ready. It is quite obvious he didn't look like the for Batman. It's even distinguishable in his jaw, comapred to how he looked in Batman. I highly doubt he got THAT in shape. And as I said, even in Desperate Measures, he doesn't look that big or cut. There is little chest and ab definition. And his arms still look pretty small. He looks more like a toned dork there, then a muscular and athletic specimen.

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Old 06-06-2007, 11:58 PM   #294
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Default Re: Michael Keaton Appreciation Thread

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He wasn't like that. You can see pudge on him when he's forced to wear the turtle neck in the cave.
True. No need to get aggressive, here. Calm yourself. I do doubt that he was that lean in B89, but there's never been anything to suggest that he didn't have a well-laid musculature in the film.

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If you claim there is no cocnlusive evidence that he didn't look like that, why would it be likely he would? He was covered fully at all times. In the scene where he is hanging he does't looked that ripped.
  • News reports (One of which I have on tape) at the time stated that he trained for two months to get ready for Batman.
  • the amount of physical work that he had to do for the film (Even without doing the two biggest fight scenes), in that suit, would dictate some level of musculature and stamina, which, odds are, would only come from being in great health with a decent physique at least.
  • Not that ripped from the back? I'd say the "Measures" picture I posted wouldn't suggest a super-ripped back, either.

Quote:
The point was Keaton went to certain lengths to look like that for Desperate Measures, because he had to in order to potray the character as written in the screenplay. So knowing that he got ready.
A fine point.

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It is quite obvious he didn't look like the for Batman.
Again, you only have speculation, just like me. So nothing is "obvious" except the fact that we're both speculating.

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It's even distinguishable in his jaw, comapred to how he looked in Batman.
As I said earlier, he obviously wouldn't have been very lean in '89. And his jaw didn't have that much pudge in the Cave scene. Plus, had it been so vast, it wouild have manifested itself in other scenes. He very well could have lost a little a pound or two between the filming of scenes.

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I highly doubt he got THAT in shape.
Fine, more power to you. I don't doubt it.

Quote:
And as I said, even in Desperate Measures, he doesn't look that big or cut. There is little chest and ab definition. And his arms still look pretty small. He looks more like a toned dork there, then a muscular and athletic specimen.
The point is that he's big for Michael Keaton, the formally-scrawny-with-no-muscle-at-all little comedian. Look at him in his first film Night Shift, he had absolutely nothing, whereas in Desperate Measures, he could bench-press his former self. I never tried to claim that he was as buffed as Batman is supposed to be.

I'm just having sme fun speculating, you might want to relax. I don't understand why you seem to feel the need to deflate a topic of discussion, that does no harm in exisiting, I might add.

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Old 06-07-2007, 01:14 AM   #295
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Default Re: Michael Keaton Appreciation Thread

The fact that Michael Keaton portrayed a compelling and convincing Batman is a testament to his acting abilities, even though there is still much debate with regards to his physical appearence.

I think Sylvester Stallone brought up an interesting point when he spoke about Keaton and B'89 as the film that created somewhat of a disjoint between the action star of the 80's and the heroes they portrayed on film. Stallone made a point that it was with B'89 that the heroes didn't actually need to look like heroes anymore, that they could just "glue on the muscles." I think the relevancy of his statement lies in the fact that B'89 did infact create a new breed of action hero.

I think that breed includes actors like Daniel Craig and Christian Bale. Fine actors who were chosen for the role because of the emotional depth they could bring to their respective roles. It was in the casting of Michael Keaton for Batman, such an off-beat choice, that paved the way for the evolution of the action hero.

No longer was muscle size the singular reason for casting; acting ability and emotional resonance were looked at as well. Although action heroes did survive until the mid 90's, I think it's safe to say that the action heroes of today are more in line with Keaton then they are with Van Damme or Segal.

Whether that is a good thing for the action movie is up for debate.

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Old 06-07-2007, 01:44 AM   #296
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Whether that is a good thing for the action movie is up for debate.
As long as it doesn't remove actors like Schwarzenegger or Stallone from the equation, I'm happy. I think they're two of the only "action stars" who can act.

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Old 06-09-2007, 09:49 PM   #297
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Default Re: Michael Keaton Appreciation Thread

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As long as it doesn't remove actors like Schwarzenegger or Stallone from the equation, I'm happy. I think they're two of the only "action stars" who can act.
With respect to Arnie and Stallone, they can only act when playing specific roles. IMO

Arnie: Terminator
Stallone: Rocky and Rambo

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Old 06-09-2007, 10:18 PM   #298
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Default Re: Michael Keaton Appreciation Thread

Arnie's a comedic genius. Stallone is solid. Did you even see Copland?

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Old 06-10-2007, 08:08 AM   #299
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Default Re: Michael Keaton Appreciation Thread

Arnold is better than anyone gives him credit for. I wish Arnold had played Mr. Freeze in a Burton directed movie. He would've been awesome.

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Old 06-10-2007, 12:47 PM   #300
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Default Re: Michael Keaton Appreciation Thread

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Arnold is better than anyone gives him credit for. I wish Arnold had played Mr. Freeze in a Burton directed movie. He would've been awesome.
Exactly. Arnold's a fantastic actor. It's easy (and funny) to make fun of him like he might be a fool, but there are times when he'll really amaze you in a film.

Arnold as Freeze in a Burton Batfilm? Dear God. Nobdoy'd be complaining about him, then! The suit would have been more serious, less neon. He would have definitely had shades of the Terminator.

I imagine it would have been like "Heart of Ice". Just imagine Keaton frozen to a wall or something conversing with Fries, saying how sorry he is over what happened.

Well, we can dream.

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