Why does the Punisher respect Daredevil?

[kainedamo]

I'm not sure where this interesting relationship between Castle and Murdock began...

In my limited experience, I'd say it began with Garth Ennis' MK Punisher. In MK Punisher, Castle clearly looks at superheroes with disdain. Indeed, Garth Ennis himself dislikes superheroes. So why is it clear that Punisher respects Daredevil? And not just respect, he called DD something like "the only smart one", when comparing him to other heroes. Don't remember exactly. Punisher completely humiliated DD in MK Punisher twice, but it's clear Punisher holds him in... high regard??

It's kinda weird. The Punisher doesn't like superheroes. He sees their efforts as pointless, I guess. At best, he sees heroes as necassery in saving lives and whatnot. At worst, he sees heroes as getting in the way. He'd possibly even be able to justify to himself killing off another hero if they tried to apprehend him too many times.

The interesting relationship between Frank and Matt has been continued. Punisher appeared in Bendis' Daredevil run. Daredevil offerend the Punisher help. Said something like "I want to help you, Frank".

An entire mini series, written by indie writer David Lapham, was written specifically about the two. Though I didn't get the chance to read that series.

Most recently, in Brudabaker's Daredevil book... Frank Castle allowed himself to get arrested. Why? To check up on Matt. It seems like an incredibly huge favor, something Frank wouldn't do for many other people. He even says he wanted to remind Matt of who he was, remind him that he doesn't want to become like him. And!! Matt seems to finally accept Frank Castle for who he is. He even tosses him a shotgun!! I didn't get to see the issue after that. Could someone fill me in?

So how can this weird relationship be best explained?

[ShadowBoxing]

Because DareDevil a) has kept Frank out of Prison on several occasions and b) values Justice just as much as he does.

[kainedamo]

I still don't get it

I should have titled this "why do they respect each other?" because I'm also equally interested in DD's seeming new acceptance of the Punisher.

[LouFerignoDemon]

Because DD is willing to not just bend the rules, but break them to solve problems, where most heros are very cautious about that sort of thing.

[Union Jack]

Originally Posted by kainedamo

I'm not sure where this interesting relationship between Castle and Murdock began...

In my limited experience, I'd say it began with Garth Ennis' MK Punisher. In MK Punisher, Castle clearly looks at superheroes with disdain. Indeed, Garth Ennis himself dislikes superheroes. So why is it clear that Punisher respects Daredevil? And not just respect, he called DD something like "the only smart one", when comparing him to other heroes. Don't remember exactly. Punisher completely humiliated DD in MK Punisher twice, but it's clear Punisher holds him in... high regard??

It's kinda weird. The Punisher doesn't like superheroes. He sees their efforts as pointless, I guess. At best, he sees heroes as necassery in saving lives and whatnot. At worst, he sees heroes as getting in the way. He'd possibly even be able to justify to himself killing off another hero if they tried to apprehend him too many times.

The interesting relationship between Frank and Matt has been continued. Punisher appeared in Bendis' Daredevil run. Daredevil offerend the Punisher help. Said something like "I want to help you, Frank".

An entire mini series, written by indie writer David Lapham, was written specifically about the two. Though I didn't get the chance to read that series.

Most recently, in Brudabaker's Daredevil book... Frank Castle allowed himself to get arrested. Why? To check up on Matt. It seems like an incredibly huge favor, something Frank wouldn't do for many other people. He even says he wanted to remind Matt of who he was, remind him that he doesn't want to become like him. And!! Matt seems to finally accept Frank Castle for who he is. He even tosses him a shotgun!! I didn't get to see the issue after that. Could someone fill me in?

So how can this weird relationship be best explained?

Didnt frank allow himself to be arrested to keep and eye on and take down a villain...not just to catch up with DD???

[kainedamo]

But he's a lawyer

*runs away crying in confusion*

It's that whole "Matt Murdock is a complex and contradictory character" thing isn't it?

[Iambaytor]

Well Punisher didn't always hate superheroes in general, that was an Ennis thing, while he certainly hated most of them he's shown respect for Spider-Man in the past though not a great deal of it, not to mention he used to hang out with Ghost Rider and Wolverine all the time. Ennis just hates all superheroes and I guess the one relationship he decided to carry over was Daredevil's, which if you think about it Daredevil is very much like the Punisher he just doesn't kill. Perhaps Frank just sees Daredevil as him if he'd managed to keep his soul (metaphorically of course)

[Nasty-B]

Well, in the DD issue after the one you mentioned, Frank used the shotgun to pretend to be taking Matt hostage, so it's not like DD gave the Punisher a shotgun and allowed him carte blanche to go around shooting prisoners. Still, I've notice how their relationship has evolved as well, and I'm pretty interested in where it's heading. I think much of it comes from the fact that they have fought each other so much that they have come to view each other as sort of worthy opponents. I definately think Ennis is responsible; in fact, the prologue to Punisher Kills the MU features a young Frank Castle beating up bullies who pick on a you Matt Murdock. While this is non-cannon, it does demonstrate that Ennis' desire to develop a more respectful relationship between the characters- something beyond the played out old choirboy/murderer routine. It is funny that Ennis would be the one to develop this dynamic, since Garth is notorious for his disdain for superheroes.
Anyway, another potential reason for this respect is the fact that both characters lost loved ones to crime. Or maybe it's because they are both dissatisfied with the limits of the justice system.

[Darthphere]

Because hes ****ing Daredevil.

[Nasty-B]

Or that.

[jaydawg]

Even the crappiness that is the Punisher can understand the sexiness that is irish ninjas.

[LouFerignoDemon]

See, saying ninja made me like DD less.

[jaydawg]

Thats cause you hate anything sexy.

[Savage]

They're mirrors of each other. What the other would have been if they made slightly different decisions or there were slightly different circumstances. They operate the same way but while DD thinks death is crossing a line, The Punisher is very willing to cross that line. Daredevil agrees with The Punisher but doesn't think that death is the answer. The Punisher admires Daredevil for having that much restraint to go as far as he does and yet pull back just enough. The Punisher kind of enjoys his work. I think if it weren't for that, he'd be just like Daredevil.

[Horrorfan]

I've hated daredevil ever since he kept hyde out of prison. Even though hyde clearly said he would kill again, and although he didnt actually commit the crime he was in for....that was just damn stupid and unforgivable, releasing such a monster who, shock horror, killed again.

The question should be why the **** does ANYONE respect daredevil.

[Savage]

Well I guess it depends on the writer. In that case the writer got the character wrong. He doesn't strictly adhere to the law; he manipulates it to keep these guys off the streets...Whoever wrote that, screwed up bad.

[samurai black]

i believe the respect lies in the fact that althought matt is a vigilante and goes outside the law, he still makes the effort to work within the system. Also, even though he has hyper-senses, matt doesn't possess any super-human powers, such as strenght, flight, spider-stuff, etc and goes out and fights the same element (street level) that castle does and tries to make the neighborhood clean. meanwhile, every other costume is battiling green goblins, magnetos, and ultrons. beside from the time that matt took up being the kingpin, castle has always had at least repsect for matt.

[Not Jake]

Originally Posted by Savage

They're mirrors of each other. What the other would have been if they made slightly different decisions or there were slightly different circumstances. They operate the same way but while DD thinks death is crossing a line, The Punisher is very willing to cross that line. Daredevil agrees with The Punisher but doesn't think that death is the answer. The Punisher admires Daredevil for having that much restraint to go as far as he does and yet pull back just enough. The Punisher kind of enjoys his work. I think if it weren't for that, he'd be just like Daredevil.

DD understands that death is warranted in some cases though, maybe part of his lawyer instincts, I dunno. For instance, he dropped Bullseye from a height back in Miller's original run rather than saving him

[Artistsean]

They are both in the same prison, a prison full of villians and some that they have put in there like Bullseye and Fisk, maybe they are watching eachother's backs because they are the only heroes in there.
Maybe it's also they share the same enemies, like Fisk mainly and Bullseye. Not to mention they are both pretty much human.
Sure Matt has extra sences but they aren't so super human that he is like an actual super hero or something, he seems more like a Batman or something like that.
They are pretty much two human guys fighting an endless war on crime, growing from the murder of loved ones.




I am wondering about Punisher and Spider-Man, why does he respect Spider-Man exactly? not saying he shouldn't, it just sounds interesting because they have less in common.
Peter is, was, a teenager and now is a young adult. Has a colorfull costume, and incredible powers. Has clear morals, and wont kill.

[Harlekin]

They haven't been in prison for a while now. That was a few months back, Sean.

[Horrorfan]

Originally Posted by Savage

Well I guess it depends on the writer. In that case the writer got the character wrong. He doesn't strictly adhere to the law; he manipulates it to keep these guys off the streets...Whoever wrote that, screwed up bad.

I should have known....I'm pretty sure it was a Bendis issue. I can't say for 100% but fairly sure...it was the issue that came with the pyro marvel legends figure.Damn it Bendis sucks. Before I thought it might have been new avengers and that he probably wasn't that bad, but the more I read and hear about the stuff he does...damn. (Squirrel girl being an astonishingly lame work of his).

[Harlekin]

What makes you think Bendis was responsible for Squirrel Girl? And the Daredevil issue that came with your Pyro definitely was NOT written by Bendis. It's a volume one issue, and Bendis didn't touch the character till the latest volume with #26.

[Max J Power]

They both try to maintain justice, but they go about it in different ways. The Punisher respects Daredevil because he sees their common goal.

But it kind of depends on the writer.

[Horrorfan]

Originally Posted by Harlekin

What makes you think Bendis was responsible for Squirrel Girl? And the Daredevil issue that came with your Pyro definitely was NOT written by Bendis. It's a volume one issue, and Bendis didn't touch the character till the latest volume with #26.

I'm sure someone mentioned Squirrel girl was a bendis character.....and for some reason I thought Bendis wrote that comic too. But My bad on both counts, but it still sucked whoever wrote it.

[Harlekin]

Squirrel Girl is an old obscure character from the 80s brought back by Dan Slott. That's a far cry from Bendis.