A discussion about the Heroic Nature of the Hulk

[Canadian Rider]

I am curious hulk fans. I used to read the hulk as a kid, when he was in his "child" hulk persona.

I have always been curious though. He smashes buildings, scares innocent people and destroys property.

Why is he considered a hero? I would appreciate your feedback as it never made sense to me. In the Secret Wars even it is was odd.

Doctor Doom has never done as much property damage and yet he is a villain?

Thank you for your input.

[Jplaya2023]

Bad writing

coupled with the fact he's basically jeckly and hyde and his hyde side does good for the world so its kind of loverlooked IMC.

Ever see Megas XLR? Coop(Main character who pilots a insanely huge mech with a jerry rigged control system composed of different game contollers) smashes Jersey City into ruins almost every episode and everyone loves him, then again its Jersey City, Who Cares?

Also he just over does it some times, its kind of hard to judge how hard you hit if you strength constantly changes.

[Canadian Rider]

Okay. I guess I just wonder if Dr. Doom did the damage would he be considered a hero?

[Son Of Logan]

I don't think the Hulk is looked at by the characters in the book as a hero so much as he is seen as one by readers because of their (our) unique perspective, knowing that he is more of an out-of-control beast and reactionary as opposed to being intentionally malicious along with the knowledge that Bruce Banner is trapped somewhere inside.

[Canadian Rider]

Interesting take. Thanks.

I see that Wolverine is sometimes an "outsider" as a hero, but I am just suprised that in the Marvel Universe more hasn't been done to deal with the collateral damage that hulk causes or is responsible for.

I read the comics when I was younger and never really saw him as a hero from the perspective of all the stuff going on around him and the damage that he inflicted. Even the "boy scout" superman fixes stuff if he breaks it and it seems odd that people rever the hulk in the way they do.

I don't understand it and was hoping for some dialogue from some Hulk fans.

Thanks!

[bored]

SOL had a good point. A lot of people in the MU fear the Hulk and see him as a menace because of all the damage he's done. Hell, other heroes even shot him into space for it.

[Ahura Mazda]

But don't forget he has saved the Earth on a number of occassions.

[Canadian Rider]

Interesting. Thanks Ahura.

I have been learning much about the Hulk character and had a question as indicated.

Dacman and I got into a heated discussion, but Mad Bull and others provided some information that was interesting and informative so I wanted to get the thoughts of other Hulk fans.

My son, who is 5, asked about the hulk and if he was a hero so I thus began the quest for knowledge to help my son understand the character more.

Thank you.

[VICTORVONDOOMX]

Basically never planning to take over or destroy the world but always stopping others (property damage & all) puts you in the heroes column.

[Armand_Pravek]

I have an answer.
The Hulk is a hero, one of the greatest and one of the most incredible. The accounts in which he is involved are truly astounding, bewildering: they stir your soul. Saving the world, everything and everyone in it.

It would fill a book to answer why he is our hero and it's particularly difficult to explain it to a 5year old, please understand:

The pure and simple truth is rarely pure and never simple.

You have to get Hulk #110.

It would be better to get the entire context so get #109 and #111 as well.

[Canadian Rider]

Thank you.

I shall.

[atreestump]

in response to canadian rider: sorry I feel I have to put in my two sense. To really understand the whole thing you gotta understand what a hero is it's a guy that selflessly puts himself or herself in harms way to save others. That is what hulk does. so I think that makes him a hero or an anti-hero at best.

[Canadian Rider]

So perhaps the thread was mistitled.

I wonder then if he is an Anti-hero. He is not a traditional hero in the sense of spider-man etc. I get that.

The question for me is if you look at Wolverine or other characters who battle inner demons you can see that they make the attempt to change or harness that.

Perhaps Banner is the one who lets the Hulk run amok ... so he is not a hero in that sense. The Hulk, released, is the anti-hero?

Closer?

I will be picking up 109-111 as suggested.

[blind_fury]

Frankenstien's monster was really innocent and misunderstood. It's the mob that chases him who are the real monsters.

[Toby_Temple]

Originally Posted by Canadian Rider

I am curious hulk fans. I used to read the hulk as a kid, when he was in his "child" hulk persona.

I have always been curious though. He smashes buildings, scares innocent people and destroys property.

Why is he considered a hero? I would appreciate your feedback as it never made sense to me. In the Secret Wars even it is was odd.

Doctor Doom has never done as much property damage and yet he is a villain?

Thank you for your input.

Can we consider a tornado a villain coz it destroys properties, feared by the guilty and the innocent alike and even take lives? No.

Just like you cannot consider a rampaging elephant a villain you cannot consider the savage Hulk a villain as well.

The question that we should ask is this: What is a hero? A hero is someone who rescues/saves anyone from any problem whether from debt, poverty, injury and death. Any person is considered a hero ones he has done such an act. So the next question is: Does Hulk fit to this category? The answer is yes.

[Canadian Rider]

Originally Posted by blind_fury

Frankenstien's monster was really innocent and misunderstood. It's the mob that chases him who are the real monsters.

Got that. But he did not have within him a rational thinking man who could protect those around him from his rage?

I guess if the Hulk did not have Banner within him I would say that would be appropriate.

Yes/No?

[Canadian Rider]

Originally Posted by Toby_Temple

Can we consider a tornado a villain coz it destroys properties, feared by the guilty and the innocent alike and even take lives? No.

Just like you cannot consider a rampaging elephant a villain you cannot consider the savage Hulk a villain as well.

The question that we should ask is this: What is a hero? A hero is someone who rescues/saves anyone from any problem whether from debt, poverty, injury and death. Any person is considered a hero ones he has done such an act. So the next question is: Does Hulk fit to this category? The answer is yes.

I guess the question is different because of the Banner/Hulk scenario.

Banner does not control the hulk/change himself so that the hulk would not threaten to destroy property, homes etc. I would not consider that heroic.

The Hulk as a seperate entity within the context of him having his own personality? I see how he doesn't want to be dragged into fights/be left alone/isolated ... but it is his "rage" nature -- the beserker part of himself that destroys things -- the lack of control that troubles me.

I accept the force of nature example -- but a Tornado does not think. It does not have a choice. The Hulk?

Does he? I know it goes back to the discussion of which hulk, but each of the various incarnations have struggled with making choices and not destroying property.

It is that part of his nature that causes me to ask if he is a hero -- an anti-hero?

I know that some things are difficult to explain to a 5 year old and that some things are complex ... but should a character like the Hulk not be a better example of how to overcome Rage? The Beserker part of all of us?

That is the noble part in Wolverine's struggle ... this is the closest parallel that I can see -- he fights against his animal nature -- "I am not an animal."

[Mad Bull]

I still agree with November Rain (I think it was) when he/she said that the Hulk is no more evil than the other forces of nature. Like a tidal wave or the aforementioned tornado, he is not destructive for his own sake. He simply IS.

But he has emotions like anyone else and can hold a grudge, hence some of his intentionally malicious attacks.

[Mr. Green]

Hulk and Banner are not the same person.

MPD = Multiple Personality Disorder. That's what Banner has. One cannot control the other.

Do you want to understand the Hulk? Check out Giant Size Hulk #1 (it came out in June or July or something). Also check out Hulk #100 (this came out a few months ago). You really just have to read some Hulk to truly understand him.

Anyway, here's a story to Help that comes from Giant Size Hulk #1:

The Champions (a team consisting of Ghost Rider, Hercules, Black Widow, and some others) see Hulk jumping across the city carrying a car. They attack him, trying to stop him. They all beat up on him but they don't bring him down because he just swats them away and keeps going. The entire time he doesn't drop the car. He finally stops at a hospital and takes a girl out of the car and gets a doctor. She had appendicitus and would have died if he was five minutes later. Hulk jumps away and the Champions let him go.

Hercules and the others talk to the womann and she explains that they were stuck in traffic so Bruce Banner turned into the Hulk to get her to the ER in time. Hercules says, "Well, if that's what he was trying to do why didn't he just say so?" She looks at him, looking super pissed, and says, "Did you ASK?"

And that's how it is a lot of the time. If you read those two comics you will understand a LOT more about the character.

Hulk isn't a villain. End of story.

[Canadian Rider]

Originally Posted by Mr. Green

Hulk and Banner are not the same person.

MPD = Multiple Personality Disorder. That's what Banner has. One cannot control the other.

Do you want to understand the Hulk? Check out Giant Size Hulk #1 (it came out in June or July or something). Also check out Hulk #100 (this came out a few months ago). You really just have to read some Hulk to truly understand him.

Anyway, here's a story to Help that comes from Giant Size Hulk #1:

The Champions (a team consisting of Ghost Rider, Hercules, Black Widow, and some others) see Hulk jumping across the city carrying a car. They attack him, trying to stop him. They all beat up on him but they don't bring him down because he just swats them away and keeps going. The entire time he doesn't drop the car. He finally stops at a hospital and takes a girl out of the car and gets a doctor. She had appendicitus and would have died if he was five minutes later. Hulk jumps away and the Champions let him go.

Hercules and the others talk to the womann and she explains that they were stuck in traffic so Bruce Banner turned into the Hulk to get her to the ER in time. Hercules says, "Well, if that's what he was trying to do why didn't he just say so?" She looks at him, looking super pissed, and says, "Did you ASK?"

And that's how it is a lot of the time. If you read those two comics you will understand a LOT more about the character.

Hulk isn't a villain. End of story.

Understood that he often faces attacks. I am looking at issues where he grabs an innocent woman and uses her as a human shield.

Where he destroys property and lays waste to things in battle.

I have read many comics and if you read the first post you would understand where the thread question came from.

I have read hulk for years / gray hulk/ this hulk / that hulk ...

It is an ongoing issue for me that neither Banner nor his "Other Personality" ever seem to progress. To try and improve.

That is the nature of the question Mr. Green. I have read the Hulk despite what many here think, reading it back in the late 70's during the heyday of the "Hulk Smash" era ... and quite frankly Mad Bull and Mistress Gluon seem to be the only ones to have argued with me on an intellectual level about the nature of the character rather than assume I have no idea who he is ...

Thank you to those in this thread who have provided input.

Again I find it interesting that those with the most vehement attacks in other threads can't be bothered to have an intellectual discussion about this character here.

[Canadian Rider]

PS ... I have asked for the Thread to be renamed ...

[blind_fury]

Originally Posted by Canadian Rider

Got that. But he did not have within him a rational thinking man who could protect those around him from his rage?

I guess if the Hulk did not have Banner within him I would say that would be appropriate.

Yes/No?

Hulk and Frankenstien's monster do not intend to hurt people. If you don't intend to hurt anyone you can't be considered evil.

[Canadian Rider]

The Thread is renamed ... I hope that shows I am truly interested in talking about this ... not arguing ...

I see what you are saying BF. I thought that the Hulk was of a higher intelligence.

I know that Frankenstein's monster did not mean to harm people. He ended up doing that, but he ran away to the North as the Hulk did to escape those pursuing him.

Perhaps there is a greater parallel there than I admitted.

Thoughts from the Hulk Fans?

[bored]

He is, at different times, an animal and a person. Both tend to just want to be left alone. Lately, the Hulk has been exploring a truly noble side on Sakaar, though obviously that's not going to last, because he's still, on some level, a slave to the anger that fuels him.