Serious Topic: Should Batman be 'kept back' like in "Begins"?

[Keyser Sushi]

Originally Posted by Heretic

I trust Christopher Nolan with my favorite character. I tend to think he will make this another Bruce movie, though obviously since Batman is already around you will see the use of him spread out throughout the movie as opposed to just in the second half.

However, though I agree with what the original poster said, how awesome would it be to see Batman actually doing detective work? The success of shows like CSI prove that people will watch the actual investigative process. Batman has never shown to have one iotta of detective skills in the previous series of movies, so I for one would LOVE a good mystery.

I agree with this post, except the part I bolded, because, CSI has *nothing* to do with the "actual investigative process."

CSI is 100% bunk. The *actual* investigative process bears no resemblance to that show.

[Keyser Sushi]

Originally Posted by chosen1

Yeah I think it'll be more than 35 minutes of the movie w/out batman of course I dare say it'll be about just as much screen time as batman begins maybe a little more. But just dont expect it to be w/out bamtan for the first hour and a half of the movie.

BAMTAN! na-na-na-na na-na-na-na BAMTAN! na-na-na-na na-na-na-na, BAMTAAAN, BAMTAAAAN, BAMTAAAAAAAAAN! na-na-na-na na-na-na-na na-na-na-na na-na-na-na, BAAAAMTAAAAAAAAAN!!!!



Don't worry, I'm just relieved to see I'm not the only one whose fingers get ahead of themselves in that particular fashion when typing the name of our most beloved hero.

[El Payaso]

Keyser Suhsi

[Castlewood]

BAMTAN GEBINS



And Keyser... I'm an English expert, so I know how to spell ''Lucius'', lol. But thanks for the compliments!!
It concerns me that our language is quickly disappearing lately. All of this ''ttyl, brb, omg'' stuff is frightening me... I say ''lol'' and THAT'S IT!!

[Heretic]

Keyser, the public has no real knowledge of what the actual investigative process is, so to them CSI IS legit...and they watch it...I think it makes them feel smart or something...personally, Ive never watched CSI, ever. No ones got a cape, no reason for me to watch.

[Castlewood]

Originally Posted by Heretic

...personally, Ive never watched CSI, ever. No ones got a cape, no reason for me to watch.

Yes! Great quote!!!

[Keyser Sushi]

Originally Posted by El Payaso

Keyser Suhsi

Le Payaso.

[Keyser Sushi]

Originally Posted by TempleFugit

BAMTAN GEBINS

LOL!!!

And Keyser... I'm an English expert, so I know how to spell ''Lucius'', lol. But thanks for the compliments!!

Oh, no condescenscion intended. I'm just tired of people spelling it "Lucious" as though it's some sort of adjective and not a Roman name.

It concerns me that our language is quickly disappearing lately. All of this ''ttyl, brb, omg'' stuff is frightening me... I say ''lol'' and THAT'S IT!!

Preach on, brother. I'm a writer, myself, so the apparent decline in literacy concerns me on many levels...

[Keyser Sushi]

Originally Posted by Heretic

Keyser, the public has no real knowledge of what the actual investigative process is, so to them CSI IS legit...and they watch it...I think it makes them feel smart or something...personally, Ive never watched CSI, ever. No ones got a cape, no reason for me to watch.

LOL!!! Hey, nothing personal, man. I only watched one episode of CSI myself, but as a Law & Order guy (actually I preferred Homicide: Life on the Street) I couldn't stomach CSI. So any time somebody mentions it as being anything resembling real detective work, I speak up. Law & Order is actually pretty realistic, though. Homicide: LotS even moreso.

[StorminNorman]

Originally Posted by Keyser Sushi

LOL!!! Hey, nothing personal, man. I only watched one episode of CSI myself, but as a Law & Order guy (actually I preferred Homicide: Life on the Street) I couldn't stomach CSI. So any time somebody mentions it as being anything resembling real detective work, I speak up. Law & Order is actually pretty realistic, though. Homicide: LotS even moreso.

Homicide is great because it introduced me to Richard Belzar.

My life has never been the same.

[The Batman]

one problem with that....

Batman is who he truly is. period. the reason why peter parker is more focused on in the spidey films is because parker is who he truly is. we shouldnt be subjected to a facade.

[Keyser Sushi]

Originally Posted by StorminNorman

Homicide is great because it introduced me to Richard Belzar.

My life has never been the same.

Three words: UFO's, JFK, and Elvis.

[Keyser Sushi]

Originally Posted by The Batman

one problem with that....

Batman is who he truly is. period. the reason why peter parker is more focused on in the spidey films is because parker is who he truly is. we shouldnt be subjected to a facade.

I don't entirely buy that.

I mean I agree that Batman is the person he wants to be. That Bruce Wayne the public persona is a mask that he sometimes loses sight of.

But part of the fun of Batman, for the audience, is the disguise; the fact that sometimes he's Bruce Wayne and sometimes he's Batman. Bruce Wayne can do good, and Batman USES his Bruce Wayne persona to do good things. It's a PART of who he is, and it needs to be there, and not just in a useless, perfunctory capacity as in the Burton/Schumacher films, but in a meaningful capacity, as in Batman Begins. He's a complete character - Batman and Bruce Wayne. Batman may be the face he prefers to wear, but Bruce Wayne is sometimes necessary.

[AdmNelson]

Originally Posted by wikum

Just a shame we didn't get someone like [Paul] Bettany who I KNOW would have nailed being The Joker, especially when Ledger says "It's all in the eyes"...Bettany has the most brooding eyes.

Anyways good luck to Heath.

I think Heath will be fine, but I was originally rooting for Bettany (or even Jude Law.)

However, I was re-watching one of my favorite films the other day -- "Lock, Stock, and Two Smoking Barrels" -- and suddenly thought, "Man, Jason Flemyng would be GREAT as the Joker!" (He played Tom in that film, and was also in "The League of Extraordinary Gentlemen" as Dr. Jeckyl/Mr. Hyde.) Take a look at his photos if you're not familiar with him:

http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0002076/

Anyway, just an errant thought... And this is a good thread, BTW!

-- Admiral Nelson

[Cinemaman]

Originally Posted by TempleFugit

Okay, this is going to be kind of a lengthy post, so I apologize in advance. However, I feel that this is VERY important, and must be discussed seriously. Please walk into this thread with a mature attitude, and with the intention of having an adult conversation. Here we go...






The thing that I LOVED about ''Batman Begins'' is that there wasn't too much Batman. In other words, it was nice seeing the development of Bruce's character for the first hour, and then seeing Batman in all his glory for the last hour. It felt like the perfect amount of Batman for the movie.
The problem I had with the previous four movies (mainly ''Batman & Robin'') is that it felt like TOO MUCH Batman.... There was no build-up. He just showed up all over the place, and often times, he wasn't even needed. Take ''Batman Forever'' for example, where Batman is only present because he's talking to Chase Meridian, who turned on the Bat-Signal in that embarrassing and shameful ''chicks-dig-the-car'' scene. Completely uneccessary.

So, the thing that conerns me about ''The Dark Knight'' is that the movie will be about a Batman that has already been established, and therefore, is able to be in the movie from beginning to end. That bothers me, because I don't want the movie to be riddled with Batman scenes. A Batman scene should have a build-up to it, it shouldn't just be there because it can be. Seeing a GOOD take on the character is something we should all privelage, and seeing the way Batman should be in that final hour of ''Batman Begins'' was my personal dream come true, as a life-long Batman fan. The other four just didn't do it for me, because I saw Batman right off the bat (no pun intended).
''Begins'' was much more emotional because we saw the origin - finally - and we felt for Bruce Wayne, and when we finally saw Batman HIMSELF for the first time in 8 years (The REAL Batman), it made the experience so much better.

So, will ''The Dark Knight'' lose it's emotional qualities because there's no origin, and no build-up for his appearance? Not to mention, the fact that the selling point for this movie will be The Joker's return to the big screen?
I'm scared that this will feel like B'89 again... do you feel that way too? I just get this vibe that Heath Ledger will be the star, and Bale will just be sitting in the passenger seat while Ledger drives the movie.

So basically, I think the best way to solve this problem (if it actually is a problem... you may not think it is, but I certainly do), is to keep Batman hidden for a WHILE... maybe for *almost* the first hour, like ''Begins''.
If they can use the first hour of this movie to develop The Joker, and Harvey Dent, and the Bruce/Harvey/Gordon relationship, it will make Batman's appearance in the movie sooo much sweeter, and it will feel more important to see him on the screen than seeing The Joker. Afterall, we're supposed to be rooting for BATMAN, not the Joker... and often times, I found myself favoring Nicholson's Joker in '89 more, since he was more entertaining. I almost wanted him to win. That shouldn't be!!

Also, and this is the most important point I have to make... Christian Bale is too damn good of an actor for us NOT to see him as Bruce Wayne as much as we did in ''Begins''. If this new movie is completely filled with Bale in the costume, it will seriously disappoint me that I can only see Bale's acting IN THE SUIT, instead of out of it.... Because honestly, Bale's acting as Bruce Wayne was far greater - and more interesting - than when he acted in the costume (although he nailed them both perfectly, in my opinion).
AND, Bale is a far superior actor to Ledger, so if we can see him act as Bruce MORE than Batman, then he will definitely be the driving force of the movie. There could be so many great Bruce/Alfred scenes, Bruce/Harvey scenes, Bruce/Lucius scenes....it would totally show Bale's capabilites as an actor, and it would keep the film interesting.




Do you agree with this? If so, why? And if NOT, why?

Agreed, very good point, my friend.

I also have fear that Nolan will show too much of Batman and nothing intersting about Bruce.

I hope he won't do this, because Bruce Wayne (not Batman) is the center of events in the whole movie, and it must be so in every new Bat-movie.

At first we should know more about Bruce and his balance between himself and Batman as his 2nd face.

I hope there will be something new (maybe new development) for Bruce. Batman isn't his real face after all.

I think Nolan should show the dark knight after first 40 mins and not so much (a bit more scenes than BB had).

But still, we also shouldn't lose interest to Batman. As for me, I'd like to see more about his psychological fears, which are connected with his villians.

Batman shouldn't be used only in action or detective work.

So I hope Nolan won't forget this

[LexCorp]

I understand also. Batman overload is a bad thing. I do however think that as Batman is a little more set up already that we will see more Batman in the new film. What they need to remember is to keep Bruce.

[LadyMoira]

I happen to agree with what you said and while I think Nolan will almost have to at some point during the first half of the movie do a big sequence with Batman in suit, (possibly the opening scene,) I have faith that he will continue to do a lot of work with the character of Bruce Wayne and utilize the amazing resource he has in Bale. If the first movie was all about the set-up of Batman and how Bruce does that, this one might be more about the escalating sense of darkness and isolation that plagues Bruce as he also begins to understand just what Gordon meant when he warned him about "escalation" in the last movie. (Which by the way was one of my favorite parts-let's hope for plenty more Gordon here too and maybe oh please maybe a reference to Barbara!)

[Adam West]

I really disagree. While I don't think he should be Batman the whole movie, we should definately begin to see Bruce getting 'lost in this monster of his'.

Plus, I kind of doubt that Nolan would have ridiculous scenes where Batman whips out a credit card, or makes public apperances.

Remember, Gotham is in bad shape at the end of Begins. Batman is going to be needed to clean up the mess.

[raybia]

Originally Posted by lujho

I've got to disagree. I don't want wall-to wall batman *action*, but Batman is the main character. I'd like to see more non-action and low-key scenes with Batman... just treating his appearances as you would any other hero in a movie... cop, detective, whatever. Batman driving in his car, batman talking to other people, batman snooping around places, batman doing work in the cave.

Being Batman is his job and you can't make a movie that is ABOUT batman doing his job and only have him doing it a small part of the movie. No Batman in the first hour? No way! I want to see way more Batman than Begins had.

There's no such thing as too much Batman (okay, you need a bit of Bruce too). There's such a thing as too much Batman in full-on action mode.

Big, important, dramatic scenes should be kept sparse and spread out for impact, but there's no harm in seeing low-key Batman stuff between them.

I was going to comment but lujho's remarks says it all for me.

[LexCorp]

Originally Posted by Adam West

I really disagree. While I don't think he should be Batman the whole movie, we should definately begin to see Bruce getting 'lost in this monster of his'.

Plus, I kind of doubt that Nolan would have ridiculous scenes where Batman whips out a credit card, or makes public apperances.

Remember, Gotham is in bad shape at the end of Begins. Batman is going to be needed to clean up the mess.

Valid. I would like to see Bruce get "lost" in "Batman" but not in this film, not yet.

[Adam West]

Originally Posted by LexCorp

Valid. I would like to see Bruce get "lost" in "Batman" but not in this film, not yet.

I think it should be in this film. Capturing The Joker will become an obsession for him. Plus, it will be more dramatic for the third movie when he sees Harvey become Two-Face, and realizes that the same could happen to him if he doesn't strike a balance between Bruce and Batman.

[LexCorp]

Originally Posted by Adam West

I think it should be in this film. Capturing The Joker will become an obsession for him. Plus, it will be more dramatic for the third movie when he sees Harvey become Two-Face, and realizes that the same could happen to him if he doesn't strike a balance between Bruce and Batman.

Yeah it could work for me either way, I just think there is more establishing to do first.

[Adam West]

Originally Posted by LexCorp

Yeah it could work for me either way, I just think there is more establishing to do first.

I agree. I think it would be cool if The Movie starts out with more Bruce scenes, but as the Joker's crimes escalate, we see less and less of Bruce until he is almost always Batman, obsessed with bringing Joker to Justice.

[LexCorp]

Originally Posted by Adam West

I agree. I think it would be cool if The Movie starts out with more Bruce scenes, but as the Joker's crimes escalate, we see less and less of Bruce until he is almost always Batman, obsessed with bringing Joker to Justice.

Yeah, I think we would need to see someone close to Bruce get killed to start Bruce off going deeper into Batman.
That sounds dirty....

[Mr. Vice]

Originally Posted by LexCorp

Yeah, I think we would need to see someone close to Bruce get killed to start Bruce off going deeper into Batman.
That sounds dirty....

LOL! But, I definitely believe that Batman will become THE main focus of TDK, other than the Clown Prince himself, of course.

I mean, this movie is titled THE DARK KNIGHT, after all. Batman will become Gotham's sole protector.