Moore speaks his mind on PSN, Sony dodges

[Deleted User]

Microsoft VP Moore and GM Satchell give Sony a piece of their mind when it comes to their shoddy Live service. Not any hyperbole as far as I can see, just thick and juicy truth.

http://www.gamesindustry.biz/content_page.php?aid=22117


Sony's response, with a whole lot of dodging around the actual subject and flat-out lying. If this isn't good ol' 2006 Sony, I don't know what is.

http://www.computerandvideogames.com/article.php?id=154721

"I would argue that consumers worldwide, to the tune of over 200 million PlayStations, PS2s, PSPs and PS3s, have decided whether or not Sony has the DNA to deliver hardware, software and services to suit this industry," Karraker told Gamepro.com, making sure to note that Gran Turisom HD highlights "the potential of the PlayStation Network and the kind of ground breaking content we plan to offer".

Karraker also took issue with Microsoft's recent announcement that it has sold 10.4 million Xbox 360s, suggesting that MS's touted number is actually the number of consoles shipped, rather than those actually in the hands of gamers.

"Microsoft views 'sold' as what has been sold to retailers but could be sitting on pallets in warehouses or stacked on store shelves," he said.

"'Sold' to Sony has always meant what the consumer has actually purchased, I think many people have incorrectly viewed our competitor's 'sold' figure to believe it was actually sold to consumers, which it was not."

[Fran]

That was quite a pansy-like reply from Sony.

Live has them beat in every aspect, no doubt.

[Zenien]

Oh well, Sony at least pointed out how laughable Microsofts 10 million number is, and I guess when Microsoft acts like arrogant jerks and makes vaguely racial remarks it's just showing confidence am i rite?

Microsoft, but until you realize how retarded the 50 meg limit is, good luck matching up to what can be offered without it, you know, thinks like Tekken 5 Dark Resurection, or the updated Gripshift, or any of the full games being offered on the PSN right now.

And good luck matching the hardware quality of the PS3, oh wait, you're still having problms with your 360's in hardware and software? You don't say.

All PSN needs is unified friends lists and every game being aware, and it's defacto a better service then Xbox live, and when Microsoft starts supporting hosted servers, they can start to trash talk.

So no, Xbox live isn't better in every respect.

[THE LIZARD#1]

F**k Microsoft they are being cocky *******s out of intimidation. Don't play it off like you're better, you know they are fearing the PlayStation 3 I mean look it kicked the s**t out of their sales and scored 1 million before they could in six weeks.

They also needed to drop their price after what a year? The Playstation 2 stayed at its 300 dollar price tag for like three years and was still killing the xbox. Microsoft just needs to man the hell up and not be such *****.

Oh and in case Microsoft didn't know this who got console of the year for 2006 oh yeah the PlayStation 2 *yes I mean 2*

[AssMan]

Originally Posted by THE LIZARD#1

F**k Microsoft they are being cocky *******s

Sony has always the most & biggest cocky *****es of the bunch. You can not blame Microsoft or Nintendo for every now & then being a little bit cocky compared to the crap Sony has pulled. Microsoft & Nintendo has every right to give Sony hell the way Sony has been giving them hell.

[THE LIZARD#1]

Originally Posted by AssMan

Sony has always the most & biggest cocky *****es of the bunch. You can not blame Microsoft or Nintendo for every now & then being a little bit cocky compared to the crap Sony has pulled

I'm not blaming them for being cocky just some of the crap they have been saying is just so stupid, it annoys the hell out of me when people do that saying "HEY LOOK I'M BETTER THAN YOU!" can someone link me to a Sony comment where they bash Microsoft and Nintendo so maybe I won't feel as pissed.

Sony hasn't been calling out Microsoft like Microsoft has been calling out Sony. Sony may say they have the most powerful console out right now but at least they aren't saying crap like "Hey wish you were here Sony! Selling 10 million units."

They are pricks and need to take their medicine.

F**king pigs.

[AssMan]

Originally Posted by THE LIZARD#1

I'm not blaming them for being cocky just some of the crap they have been saying is just so stupid

Again Sony has done the same thing & more in the past. Your just crying about it because a company is saying bad things about Sony. But when Sony does this exact same thing to another company its okay because its Sony. Sony is NO BETTER then Microsoft when it comes to this type of stuff.

[Deleted User]

Originally Posted by Zenien

Oh well, Sony at least pointed out how laughable Microsofts 10 million number is, and I guess when Microsoft acts like arrogant jerks and makes vaguely racial remarks it's just showing confidence am i rite?

How laughable Microsoft's 10 million number is? You know that has absolutely nothing to do with their Live service, right? Oh yeah, I forgot you're easily tricked into believing whatever "smoke and mirrors" trick Sony pulls out of their ass.

And you know, Sony's "1 million sold in NA" is just as laughable, right? They're sitting on the shelves, for Christ sakes. How is this not blaringly obvious to you? Xbox 360 pre-orders weren't even filled until MARCH. And even then, demand for them didn't cool off until mid-summer. And.. Vaguely racial remarks? Now you're just grasping at the air. Welcome to the sinking ship, population you.

[Want some proof that I've actually researched my facts.. here ya go, Zen. Exhibit A: http://www.mygamingden.com/2006/12/29/PS-3-Systems-Being-returned-by-Resellers.html

And don't forget about: http://www.gamasutra.com/php-bin/news_index.php?story=12370 Exhibit B. Damn, if that's not the haymaker to this little 'boxing match', I can't tell you what is.]

Microsoft, but until you realize how retarded the 50 meg limit is, good luck matching up to what can be offered without it, you know, thinks like Tekken 5 Dark Resurection, or the updated Gripshift, or any of the full games being offered on the PSN right now.

And somehow, games like RoboBlitz, Contra, and Geometry Wars still manage to be more fun than Tekken 5 or Gripshift. Go figure! Full games don't equal fun, Zenien. I personally have enjoyed playing Pacman and other such arcade games in my youth for far longer than I've enjoy playing Halo. Sad, but true.

And good luck matching the hardware quality of the PS3, oh wait, you're still having problms with your 360's in hardware and software? You don't say.

And guess what.. PS3 is having hardware problems as well! OH MY!

http://www.gamingnexus.com/Default.a...ullNews&I=3324

and

http://www.ps3forums.com/showthread.php?t=48250

But oh no, PS3 is vastly superior to the Xbox 360! It can't be true, I mean, Sony is perfect right?! Seems that even they can't get hardware right, and they've been in the business about 12 years longer than Microsoft. Go figure.

All PSN needs is unified friends lists and every game being aware, and it's defacto a better service then Xbox live, and when Microsoft starts supporting hosted servers, they can start to trash talk.

Except that PSN also crashes when only a few thousand people try to access a demo. And it doesn't have the quality arcade games that XLA has, and it doesn't have the unified friends list, and it doesn't have the streamlined and efficient HUD.. the list goes on.

So no, Xbox live isn't better in every respect.

You're right. It's not better in every respect. It's not better at being utter trash, that's for sure. But I'm sure you'll never see that Zenien, enjoy yourself and that pussy-footing rhetoric. I sure get a kick out of it.

[El Santo]

What 50 MB limit?
Isn't RoboBlitx like...bigger than that because of some new compression techniques or something?
I'm sure they can do that for more XBLA games

[Deleted User]

Originally Posted by El Santo

What 50 MB limit?
Isn't RoboBlitx like...bigger than that because of some new compression techniques or something?
I'm sure they can do that for more XBLA games

Yes, I think RoboBlitz used a new compression technique to fit more game into a smaller space. It doesn't matter though, because even the XBLA games are better than the games Sony has on PSN.

[GekigangerV]

Here is an article about how Castlevania Symphony of the Night will be over 50 MB and why some of the games are under that limit

http://www.joystiq.com/2007/01/11/ca...mb-size-limit/

It doesn't say specifically how big the game will be, but does state that the demo itself will be over 50 MB. So depending on how big the demo is(I assume first boss fight for Alucard) the actual game will be much bigger considering how large SOTN is.

[Zenien]

Originally Posted by Deleted User

How laughable Microsoft's 10 million number is? You know that has absolutely nothing to do with their Live service, right?

Microsoft first said, before sony even launches the PS3 we'll have 10 million units in the hands of customers, and then it changed to well 10 million by X date in the hands of customers, and then to 10 million sold, which is shipped.

And yes I know, but it was in the PR release.

Oh yeah, I forgot you're easily tricked into believing whatever "smoke and mirrors" trick Sony pulls out of their ass.

uh huh, did I say in the other thread that Sony's 1 million sold was 1 million shipped? Try again.

And.. Vaguely racial remarks? Now you're just grasping at the air. Welcome to the sinking ship, population you.

Saying a company lacks the DNA, is vaguely racial. I didn't say it was implied racially on purpose.

[Want some proof that I've actually researched my facts.. here ya go, Zen. Exhibit A: http://www.mygamingden.com/2006/12/29/PS-3-Systems-Being-returned-by-Resellers.html

And don't forget about: http://www.gamasutra.com/php-bin/news_index.php?story=12370 Exhibit B. Damn, if that's not the haymaker to this little 'boxing match', I can't tell you what is.]

since when were we arguing sales little man? Oh right this in a divergence on your part.

And somehow, games like RoboBlitz, Contra, and Geometry Wars still manage to be more fun than Tekken 5 or Gripshift. Go figure!

Yeah because fun can be measured by the megabyte am i rite? You sort of missed the point. I enjoy your subjectivity by the way.

Full games don't equal fun, Zenien. I personally have enjoyed playing Pacman and other such arcade games in my youth for far longer than I've enjoy playing Halo. Sad, but true.

And I argued this when.

And guess what.. PS3 is having hardware problems as well! OH MY!

http://www.gamingnexus.com/Default.a...ullNews&I=3324

and

http://www.ps3forums.com/showthread.php?t=48250

And not nearly as much as the 360 by any stretch, it's a great turn around for Sony in that reguard. The hardware is practically Nintendo Wii level reliable so far, and they've shipped and sold a larger number of PS3 within the same timespan as Microsoft did during their 2 month start. Microsoft ahd and is still having problems.

But oh no, PS3 is vastly superior to the Xbox 360! It can't be true, I mean, Sony is perfect right?!

Here you go again with that stupid polarization thing, making the opinions of those you're argueing against seem more extreme then they are in an attempt to discredit them. It doesn't work.

Seems that even they can't get hardware right, and they've been in the business about 12 years longer than Microsoft. Go figure.

PS3 fault rate is very low, much lower then Microsofts. Sorry it hurts you so.

Except that PSN also crashes when only a few thousand people try to access a demo. And it doesn't have the quality arcade games that XLA has, and it doesn't have the unified friends list, and it doesn't have the streamlined and efficient HUD.. the list goes on.

A rather large demo and nice of you to point out what it currently does better, I'm sure you'll show similar acknowledgment of the things PSN does better oh wait.

You're right. It's not better in every respect. It's not better at being utter trash, that's for sure. But I'm sure you'll never see that Zenien, enjoy yourself and that pussy-footing rhetoric. I sure get a kick out of it.

Sigh, have fun.

[Joker]

if you've never heard anyone reffer to a companies DNA before, and think it's racial, even vaugely so, you're a god damn idiot...that's the only thing I'm gonna say here cause I dont want to start/get into any flame wars on this board...but that's a very common phrase I've heard quite a bit, and has nothing to do with race in the slightest...it's not even grasping at straws, it's grasping at imaginary straws

[Zenien]

Sorry maybe I should have said, what can be taken as a vaguely racial comment for those playing at home who don't get the term or that it was only something that was vaguely a racial remark, meaning following common deduction you would see that he didn't mean a racist connotation even though that could be somewhat implied. Hence the term vague?


/shrug.

[Deleted User]

Originally Posted by Zenien

Microsoft first said, before sony even launches the PS3 we'll have 10 million units in the hands of customers, and then it changed to well 10 million by X date in the hands of customers, and then to 10 million sold, which is shipped.

And yes I know, but it was in the PR release.

And that had absolutely nothing to do with the state of their XBL service. So I don't even know why you brought it up, seeing as it was obviously a tactic of the Sony PR to shift the eyes off of themselves. Why do you not see this?

uh huh, did I say in the other thread that Sony's 1 million sold was 1 million shipped? Try again.

No, you're just falling for Sony's bull**** by following their lead and attacking Microsoft for something they did down to the point. I don't care if you believed they sold 1 million or not, you still fell for the old Sony trick of bringing up something totally unrelated to the topic.

Saying a company lacks the DNA, is vaguely racial. I didn't say it was implied racially on purpose.

It's not vaguely racial. Why? Because Shane Kim works at ****ing Microsoft, and I think they sort of realize that they are a multi-racial company. You're just misconstruing what they're saying.

since when were we arguing sales little man? Oh right this in a divergence on your part.

When you brought up the topic for absolutely no reason in your first reply to my thread. A divergence on my part? You're the one who brought up MS's "10 million sales" being laughable in the first place. I only responded to the irony of your attack.

Yeah because fun can be measured by the megabyte am i rite? You sort of missed the point. I enjoy your subjectivity by the way.

You were trying to say that XBL could never be as good as PSN in the downloads section of it's functionality because XBLA didn't have any "full games". This is wrong, because most arcade games have entertained me for longer during my life than regular-sized games.

And I argued this when.

You were implying it. That XBLA wasn't as good as PSN because it didn't have plenty o' full games for you to download.

Oh yes, and there are games that are being made to exceed the 50MB limit. See: Castlevania.

And not nearly as much as the 360 by any stretch, it's a great turn around for Sony in that reguard. The hardware is practically Nintendo Wii level reliable so far, and they've shipped and sold a larger number of PS3 within the same timespan as Microsoft did during their 2 month start. Microsoft ahd and is still having problems.

Except the fact that I've heard this story from multiple sources. The complaining of lock-ups and hardware issues. This means that at least some significant fraction of people are having hardware troubles. Nintendo Wii level reliable? Please, not even close. And I bet you anything that the PS3 will still be having problems further into it's lifetime, as well. If the PS2 is anything to go by.

And where are your numbers to support the claim that they have shipped and sold a larger number of PS3s during the same time as Microsoft, hmm?

Here you go again with that stupid polarization thing, making the opinions of those you're argueing against seem more extreme then they are in an attempt to discredit them. It doesn't work.

Well, that's all you seemed to be spouting in your first post. Alot of Sony propagandist nonsense that everyone knows isn't true. You went as far as to bring up Xbox 360's problems without recognizing the PS3s as well, and call the 10 million mark "laughable" while ignoring Sony's hilarious claims.

All the makings of a grade-A fanboy post.

PS3 fault rate is very low, much lower then Microsofts. Sorry it hurts you so.

And how we would even know? It doesn't even seem the regular consumer is picking them up near as fast as they were the Xbox 360.

And I'd like to point out that much of Xbox 360's problems were exaggerated by internet sources. You had about 6 reports of X360 customers having problems and then all hell broke lose, people proclaiming the world was ending.

A rather large demo and nice of you to point out what it currently does better, I'm sure you'll show similar acknowledgment of the things PSN does better oh wait.

Does this make any sense? I've downloaded nearing 1GB downloads on my Xbox Live before, and I'm sure many others have as well, but that didn't make the network come crashing down.

Right now you're trying, and failing, to protect Sony. It's endearing, to say the least.

[Zenien]

Originally Posted by Deleted User

And that had absolutely nothing to do with the state of their XBL service. So I don't even know why you brought it up, seeing as it was obviously a tactic of the Sony PR to shift the eyes off of themselves. Why do you not see this?

Because a ton of people believed Microsoft had actually sold 10 million to customers. Get it through your head.

No, you're just falling for Sony's bull**** by following their lead and attacking Microsoft for something they did down to the point.

Did what again?

I don't care if you believed they sold 1 million or not, you still fell for the old Sony trick of bringing up something totally unrelated to the topic.

Uh Sony sort of addressed Microsofts critisms, when Microsoft critisized Sony saying they don't think Sony had what it took to make compelling hardware/software, Sony said "Uh yeah, hi, we've sold a **** ton more then you and surplanted Nintendo in 1 generation". That's on topic because it's a rebutal to the what Microsoft said.

When you brought up the topic for absolutely no reason in your first reply to my thread. A divergence on my part? You're the one who brought up MS's "10 million sales" being laughable in the first place. I only responded to the irony of your attack.

Actually it was the point at which you tried to insinuate that Sony had claimed they had 'sold' 1 million PS3 in NA that I laughed. Since they said shipped and clarrified in twice in seperate interviews.

You were trying to say that XBL could never be as good as PSN in the downloads section of it's functionality because XBLA didn't have any "full games".

Hmmm, here you go again exxagerating. I never said that. I basically said a limitation is a limitation is a limitation, which you failed to grasp.

This is wrong, because most arcade games have entertained me for longer during my life than regular-sized games.

Believing oneself stance to be the ultimate measure of the related climate isn't like, right. And maybe you missed it, but Tekken 5 IS an Arcade game.

You were implying it. That XBLA wasn't as good as PSN because it didn't have plenty o' full games for you to download.

Size has nothing to do with full games, you can have a full game that fits in 3 megs, you can have a full game that takes up 500. But having to fit your game into 50 megs these days is still restrictive to the developers.

Oh yes, and there are games that are being made to exceed the 50MB limit. See: Castlevania.

But only as has been said: The exception to the rule. When PS1 Castlevania, a 2d sprite based game has to be given the exception to the rule, there's a problem with the rule. 500 megs, much more reasonable and allows developers much more flexibility.

Except the fact that I've heard this story from multiple sources. The complaining of lock-ups and hardware issues. This means that at least some significant fraction of people are having hardware troubles.

Nowhere near Microsoft.

Nintendo Wii level reliable? Please, not even close.

Closer then Microsft by a landslide in any case.

And I bet you anything that the PS3 will still be having problems further into it's lifetime, as well. If the PS2 is anything to go by.

Every console does. But Sony has with a greater amount of units in a similar timespan not only destroyed the PS2 in terms of relaibility but the 360 as well.

And where are your numbers to support the claim that they have shipped and sold a larger number of PS3s during the same time as Microsoft, hmm?

NPD and VGcharts. I'm suprised you're being this stupid, you generally seem pretty smart.

http://vgcharts.com/page3.html

I like how you think you caught me somehow.

You went as far as to bring up Xbox 360's problems without recognizing the PS3s as well, and call the 10 million mark "laughable" while ignoring Sony's hilarious claims.

Except for for how Microsoft did it much worse and Sony clariffied the DAY AFTER the news of 1 million shipped hit. You continually fail to grasp the situation...

And I'd like to point out that much of Xbox 360's problems were exaggerated by internet sources. You had about 6 reports of X360 customers having problems and then all hell broke lose, people proclaiming the world was ending.

Yeah, you cling to that. Microsoft even admitted it but whatever floats your blind fanboy boat.

Does this make any sense? I've downloaded nearing 1GB downloads on my Xbox Live before, and I'm sure many others have as well, but that didn't make the network come crashing down.

Maybe you're forgetting how Xbox live crashed not too long ago.

http://www.2old2play.com/News/Xbox_Live_Crash_

Nice selective memory. PSN is still brand new so glitches are to be expected in the early run.

[Deleted User]

Originally Posted by Zenien

Because a ton of people believed Microsoft had actually sold 10 million to customers. Get it through your head.

Yet it had NOTHING to do with the thread or the reason I made the thread. Get THAT through your head. Your comment was just perpetuating the bull**** smoke n' mirrors tactic that Sony used in the report.

Did what again?

Lied about their sales, lied about their sales.. and.. OH, lied about their sales. What a small world it is we live in, Zen!

Uh Sony sort of addressed Microsofts critisms, when Microsoft critisized Sony saying they don't think Sony had what it took to make compelling hardware/software, Sony said "Uh yeah, hi, we've sold a **** ton more then you and surplanted Nintendo in 1 generation". That's on topic because it's a rebutal to the what Microsoft said.

Actually, they said they didn't think Sony had what it took to make the software on the level that Microsoft could. Nothing to do with hardware, NOTHING. Moore even said "We're a software/services company" when he was talking about it, so I'm pretty sure he was talking about SOFTWARE and SERVICES.

Sony, uh yeah, hi, they um, yeah, hello, uhhmm.. responded to something that had nothing to do with the topic at hand. Microsoft said nothing about hardware. Nowhere in their comments did they say "Sony just can't live up to our standards of hardware". Nowhere. All you did was take the same stupid Sony trick and refurbish it for your own use to try to bring something that had nothing to do with the topic into play.

Thanks, and come again!

Actually it was the point at which you tried to insinuate that Sony had claimed they had 'sold' 1 million PS3 in NA that I laughed. Since they said shipped and clarrified in twice in seperate interviews.

There's also been reports where they've said "sold". That's obviously contradicting the reports where they have said "shipped", and you even perpetuated the notion that PS3 outsold X360 in NA for launch numbers, so don't give me that bull**** run-around.

Hmmm, here you go again exxagerating. I never said that. I basically said a limitation is a limitation is a limitation, which you failed to grasp.

And that limitation doesn't even exist. See: Castlevania. See: Castlevania. See: Castlevania. And personally, even if the cap DID exist, the XBLA games are of higher quality than the full Sony PSN games. So, the limitation actually turns out to not be so limiting afterall.

Believing oneself stance to be the ultimate measure of the related climate isn't like, right. And maybe you missed it, but Tekken 5 IS an Arcade game.

Except that it sort of isn't.

It's a full game, not a game that you would find in an arcade. A.K.A. an ARCADE game. My definition of an arcade game is quite literal.

Size has nothing to do with full games, you can have a full game that fits in 3 megs, you can have a full game that takes up 500. But having to fit your game into 50 megs these days is still restrictive to the developers.

And that restriction still doesn't even exist.

But only as has been said: The exception to the rule. When PS1 Castlevania, a 2d sprite based game has to be given the exception to the rule, there's a problem with the rule. 500 megs, much more reasonable and allows developers much more flexibility.

There is no rule, that's what you don't get. It's a guideline that Microsoft uses, they're not forcing a developer to cram all of the game into 50 megs if they can't. As seen by Castelvania.

Nowhere near Microsoft.

And they've been in the business 3 times longer than Microsoft, and are still having problems. And a good measure of them. Maybe not as many as the Xbox 360, but they're still having problems and that's all that matters. And actually, let's wait until this time next year to see which console has the most problems.

You're comparing about a month and a half (of weak sales, even) to all the problems that have spanned the console's lifetime.

Closer then Microsft by a landslide in any case.

We'll see that in a year's time, now won't we?

Every console does. But Sony has with a greater amount of units in a similar timespan not only destroyed the PS2 in terms of relaibility but the 360 as well.

Except not. I actually didn't hear all the "doom" reports about the Xbox 360 until later into it's lifetime. There weren't nearly as many faulty consoles at this point in it's launch than there have been spanning it's entire lifetime. You can't compare a year and 2 months to a month and a half.

NPD and VGcharts. I'm suprised you're being this stupid, you generally seem pretty smart.

http://vgcharts.com/page3.html

I like how you think you caught me somehow.

Hmm.. except for VGCharts is one of the most skewered sales-tracking websites out there, Zen. Nice try. And the NPD numbers?

http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/070111/video...ales.html?.v=2

I call shenanigans. about 600k in NA over launch.. hmmm... Who exactly is stupid here, again? And for some reason.. I doubt they have shipped and sold 900k consoles in Japan for some reason.

Except for for how Microsoft did it much worse and Sony clariffied the DAY AFTER the news of 1 million shipped hit. You continually fail to grasp the situation...

And Sony shipped 100k to NA each week, right? It was confirmed that they shipped only about 200k the first week of it being out.. and each successive week after that would mean only about 800-900k at a stretch would've been shipped here.

Yep.. they're not lying at all.

Yeah, you cling to that. Microsoft even admitted it but whatever floats your blind fanboy boat.

Me, blind fanboy? Please. You can do better than that.

Maybe you're forgetting how Xbox live crashed not too long ago.

http://www.2old2play.com/News/Xbox_Live_Crash_

Nice selective memory. PSN is still brand new so glitches are to be expected in the early run.

I love how you conveniently forget to include how that was caused by the earthquakes that caused the underwater fiber-optic wires to malfunction. Yep. I am the one with selective memory..

You lost, give it up.

[Zenien]

Originally Posted by Deleted User

Yet it had NOTHING to do with the thread or the reason I made the thread. Get THAT through your head. Your comment was just perpetuating the bull**** smoke n' mirrors tactic that Sony used in the report.

Actually it did, re-read what Microsoft said. In fact quote it for everyone to see. I'll do it for you.

Lied about their sales, lied about their sales.. and.. OH, lied about their sales. What a small world it is we live in, Zen!

Don't tell me you're too stupid to realize 1) North America isn't the US and 2) Sony didn't say Sold, the vast minority of the reports said sold, MISTAKENLY, try a good search. Majority of reports said, Shipped. Sony said shipped in 2 seperate interviews. 1 of which you've linked.

Here ahve the other one:

Actually, they said they didn't think Sony had what it took to make the software on the level that Microsoft could. Nothing to do with hardware, NOTHING. Moore even said "We're a software/services company" when he was talking about it, so I'm pretty sure he was talking about SOFTWARE and SERVICES.

Microsoft: They're struggling with some of their hardware issues (hypocritical on MS's part), and apparently they're going to deliver another five million in the next 90 days. But this business is about hardware, software and services now. And the consumer expects that."


Sony: "I would argue that consumers worldwide, to the tune of over 200 million PlayStations, PS2s, PSPs and PS3s, have decided whether or not Sony has the DNA to deliver hardware, software and services to suit this industry"


Try actually reading what you link.

Sony, uh yeah, hi, they um, yeah, hello, uhhmm.. responded to something that had nothing to do with the topic at hand. Microsoft said nothing about hardware.

Oh snap!

Nowhere in their comments did they say "Sony just can't live up to our standards of hardware".

I never said they said that.

All you did was take the same stupid Sony trick and refurbish it for your own use to try to bring something that had nothing to do with the topicinto play.

There's also been reports where they've said "sold". That's obviously contradicting the reports where they have said "shipped", and you even perpetuated the notion that PS3 outsold X360 in NA for launch numbers, so don't give me that bull**** run-around.

So you refuse to believe the NPD numbers? Since the 600k is from them. It hilarious how you refuse to believe any source that says what you don't want to hear but then throw your support behind the dubious ones that chant your tune. In this case you're saying you doubt the widely reported figure of 600k. Well good luck, you don't even havea fring source to back you up and you're still sticking your head in the sand.

And that limitation doesn't even exist. See: Castlevania. See: Castlevania. See: Castlevania.

See: Exception to the rule See: exception to the rule See: Exception to the rule.

See: The rule

You mentioned the file sizes being limited to about 50MBs. Is there any decision in the works to increase that size based on the upcoming larger memory units?

At this time and for the foreseeable future we're sticking to our position that 50MBs is what defines an Arcade title so that portability between system and system can work

Ross Erickson -Worldwide Games Portfolio Manager for Xbox Live Arcade

owned

And personally, even if the cap DID exist

Uh huh

the XBLA games are of higher quality than the full Sony PSN games.

Subjectivity ahoy.

So, the limitation actually turns out to not be so limiting afterall.

That's like saying having an underpowered CPU turns out not to be so limiting afterall. Or the Ram in the PS2. Not a single one of the games being put out on the PSN would be possible in their current for if they were restricted to 50 megs. A limitation is a limitation is a limitation, developers would always prefer to work with less of them, and having to keep your game under at or around 50 megs is a limitation, designing your game around clockign out at 50 megs is a limitation.

It's a full game, not a game that you would find in an arcade.

"Hi"

A.K.A. an ARCADE game. My definition of an arcade game is quite literal.

Obviously.

And that restriction still doesn't even exist.

Really...

It's a guideline that Microsoft uses, they're not forcing a developer to cram all of the game into 50 megs if they can't. As seen by Castelvania.

GS: We've heard Microsoft has a pretty strict 50MB limit on Xbox Live Arcade titles. How heavily do you have to take that into account when you start to design a game, and how did you adapt RoboBlitz to fit that size restraint?

TM, JG, and ST: First rule of RoboBlitz: DO NOT go over 50MB.
Second rule of {!! ERROR: OUT OF MEMORY !!}

Seriously though, we built RoboBlitz from the ground up with the 50MB limit in mind. Some of the game elements already lent themselves to the size constraint, such as using characters with physics-based movements rather than hand animations. For other needs, we utilized tools like procedural texturing to reduce the size of the title.

http://www.gamespot.com/news/6161178.html

And they've been in the business 3 times longer than Microsoft, and are still having problems. And a good measure of them. Maybe not as many as the Xbox 360, but they're still having problems and that's all that matters

Getting you to admit the simplest things is like pulling teeth.

And actually, let's wait until this time next year to see which console has the most problems.

Sure, chances are that the PS3 is going to hold out better there as well.

You're comparing about a month and a half (of weak sales, even) to all the problems that have spanned the console's lifetime.

Nah, 360's had problems early on, to deny that is willful self deception.

We'll see that in a year's time, now won't we?

We really will.

Hmm.. except for VGCharts is one of the most skewered sales-tracking websites out there, Zen. Nice try. And the NPD numbers?

You, very plainly.

http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/070111/video...ales.html?.v=2

I call shenanigans. about 600k in NA over launch.. hmmm... Who exactly is stupid here, again? And for some reason.. I doubt they have shipped and sold 900k consoles in Japan for some reason.

So you doubt ANY official numbers I'd take it.

I doubt the 600k number reported by the NPD!!!!!!!

Good luck with that.

And Sony shipped 100k to NA each week, right? It was confirmed that they shipped only about 200k the first week of it being out.. and each successive week after that would mean only about 800-900k at a stretch would've been shipped here.

And you don't know what their shipment levels really were so this kind of slanted speculation is meaningless.

I love how you conveniently forget to include how that was caused by the earthquakes that caused the underwater fiber-optic wires to malfunction. Yep. I am the one with selective memory...

Microsoft never gave the reason. Xbox live crashed before that as well.

You lost, give it up.

Forgive me if I do not submit to your special brand of reality.

[Zenien]

The reports that said sold are in the vast minority... if truely existant at all when judging it by internet standards.


Take a look:

Google Search: PS3 1 million Sold

http://www.google.ca/search?hl=en&q=...ion+sold&meta=

Google Search: PS3 1 Million Shipped

http://www.google.ca/search?hl=en&q=...+shipped&meta=

[Deleted User]

Originally Posted by Zenien

Don't tell me you're too stupid to realize 1) North America isn't the US and 2) Sony didn't say Sold, the vast minority of the reports said sold, MISTAKENLY, try a good search. Majority of reports said, Shipped. Sony said shipped in 2 seperate interviews. 1 of which you've linked.

US isn't all of NA, but the US got the LARGE majority of PS3 consoles. And Mexico is hardly a player in their sales margin, so it would leave it to Canada which got far less consoles than the US, and the US where they have been struggling to sell. That still won't equal 1 million, let alone 900k.

Microsoft: They're struggling with some of their hardware issues (hypocritical on MS's part), and apparently they're going to deliver another five million in the next 90 days. But this business is about hardware, software and services now. And the consumer expects that."

You're cherrypicking. All he did was bring up the fact that they are struggling with some hardware issues. This is true, and I'm sure he realizes they are also having some hardware issues as well. But the main point of his whole comment was the software and services part. He's trying to talk about how the consumer not only expects good hardware, but they also expect great software and (Live) services to complement it.

That's why Sony selling 200 million consoles during their time in the video game market has nothing to do with what they were talking about, and that's why Microsoft saying they had sold 10 million consoles has nothing to do with the topic.

Sony: "I would argue that consumers worldwide, to the tune of over 200 million PlayStations, PS2s, PSPs and PS3s, have decided whether or not Sony has the DNA to deliver hardware, software and services to suit this industry"

Yet that still has nothing to do with the topic or even what you said at first. You brought up the fact that Microsoft had probably not sold near 10 million consoles. You never said **** about consumers buying 200 mil. playstation products, re-affirming that the consumer had chosen that Sony had what it takes. You just off and attacked Microsoft's claim of selling 10 million consoles.

And something else I'd like to point out.. Playstation never had an online service, and you can barely call PS2's online a "service" or contributing factor to the console's market dominance. So they still might not have the DNA to deliver good software and services.

Try actually reading what you link.

I did, and all I can see is that your remark about Microsoft's purported 10 mil. sold mark being bull**** is still off the topic.

Oh snap!

Okay, he mildly commented on hardware issues with the PS3. But it was insignificant at best and had little to do with the point he was trying to convey. That point being the topic of this thread. That Sony doesn't have what it takes to deliver software and services alongside their hardware.

I never said they said that.

Yet somehow you construed it in such a way that made it seem like Moore had actually said something significant about PS3's hardware. At best he made a glancing remark and went onto to talk about the actual point of the article. PSN. He never said "PS3 could never sell 1 million", or "PS3's hardware doesn't live up to ours". Thus, your comment about Microsoft selling 10 million is.. off-topic!

And yep, you keep on laughing. Because the 10 million sold thing still has nothing to do with the topic. All it's proving is that you have no idea what you're talking about.

So you refuse to believe the NPD numbers? Since the 600k is from them. It hilarious how you refuse to believe any source that says what you don't want to hear but then throw your support behind the dubious ones that chant your tune. In this case you're saying you doubt the widely reported figure of 600k. Well good luck, you don't even havea fring source to back you up and you're still sticking your head in the sand

.

Umm.. actually, I'm saying I AGREE with the 600k mark that the NPD are giving, you idiot. I'm just saying that the fact that they sold so poorly in the US goes to show that Canada and Mexico combined probably didn't make up for the extra 300k to pass the Xbox 360's mark of 900k in the launch year. So, whatever you say.

See: Exception to the rule See: exception to the rule See: Exception to the rule.

See: The rule

You mentioned the file sizes being limited to about 50MBs. Is there any decision in the works to increase that size based on the upcoming larger memory units?

At this time and for the foreseeable future we're sticking to our position that 50MBs is what defines an Arcade title so that portability between system and system can work

Ross Erickson -Worldwide Games Portfolio Manager for Xbox Live Arcade

Yeah, sure, but seeing as how they are allowing games to exceed that limit, it must obviously not be a rule. If it was a rule, they wouldn't let any Arcade game exceed that limit. So, apparently, MS has changed it's position and set it up as more of a guideline. They would like the developers to get the game down to around 50MB, but they aren't forcing it upon them. Thus, it is not a full-blown "you have to do exactly this or else" sort of rule. Thus, it's like a guideline.

Subjectivity ahoy.

I'd like to use the opinions of pretty much anyone who has played Geometry Wars or RoboBlitz as proof. If you can get that much fun out of a 50 MB arcade game then I guess it must be doing something right without having all the pretty graphics and effects.

That's like saying having an underpowered CPU turns out not to be so limiting afterall. Or the Ram in the PS2. Not a single one of the games being put out on the PSN would be possible in their current for if they were restricted to 50 megs. A limitation is a limitation is a limitation, developers would always prefer to work with less of them, and having to keep your game under at or around 50 megs is a limitation, designing your game around clockign out at 50 megs is a limitation.

That has nothing to do with underpowered CPU. File size does not effect how the game will run. Both RAM and CPU do. It depends on the type of compression the developer uses, and I'm sure a full-blown game would be able to be put on XBLA at a low amount of MB if the developer was talented enough.

Apparently it's not a limitation for the people who are creating the XBLA games that happen to be so popular.

"Hi"

Is it actually even an arcade game, or is that just a picture of someone setting it up with arcade-style controls? Because you can do that with near any game, really. The games I'm talking about are arcade-styled games, the ones you'd actually find in an arcade. Not ones that you can set up with arcade-style controls.

GS: We've heard Microsoft has a pretty strict 50MB limit on Xbox Live Arcade titles. How heavily do you have to take that into account when you start to design a game, and how did you adapt RoboBlitz to fit that size restraint?

TM, JG, and ST: First rule of RoboBlitz: DO NOT go over 50MB.
Second rule of {!! ERROR: OUT OF MEMORY !!}

Seriously though, we built RoboBlitz from the ground up with the 50MB limit in mind. Some of the game elements already lent themselves to the size constraint, such as using characters with physics-based movements rather than hand animations. For other needs, we utilized tools like procedural texturing to reduce the size of the title.

http://www.gamespot.com/news/6161178.html

But they don't have to stick to the 50MB completely, apparently if the developer has the balls to ask Microsoft, they can exceed the 50MB limit. Thus, it is not a rule. It is a guideline that Microsoft would like them to follow, but are not going to make them follow if they ask for a little more lee-way.

Getting you to admit the simplest things is like pulling teeth.

YES THEY HAD PROBLEMS YOU IDIOT! I acknowledge that completely, but Microsoft is not a hardware company, and they've been in this business far shorter than Sony. So by your logic, Sony would have it perfect, but THEY DON'T. Damn you're thick.

Sure, chances are that the PS3 is going to hold out better there as well.

Only because you're a Sony fan.

Nah, 360's had problems early on, to deny that is willful self deception.

They did have problems, I even said so in my ****ing post. That's not the point. At this point in the Xbox 360's launch, they did not have near as many problems as they did as it went along. They had roughly the same amount of reports as the PS3 did at this time.

We really will.

I know, that's why I said it.

You, very plainly.

http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/070111/video...ales.html?.v=2



So you doubt ANY official numbers I'd take it.

I doubt the 600k number reported by the NPD!!!!!!!

Good luck with that.

I support those numbers. What the hell are you blabbering on about? I'm just saying that it's very unlikely, if Sony only shipped 1 million to NA anyways, that Mexico/Canada made up the 400k difference. Especially when there's consoles sitting on shelves here as it is.

And you don't know what their shipment levels really were so this kind of slanted speculation is meaningless.

Except they said from the get-go that they were shipping 100k units every week until the end of the month.

Microsoft never gave the reason. Xbox live crashed before that as well

.

Umm.. no it didn't. It crashed on the day that the earthquake happened, and never before or after it.

Forgive me if I do not submit to your special brand of reality.

Yours isn't so great, either.

[Zenien]

Holy crap. We're done here.