New Joe Fridays Week 30

[Darthphere]

Originally Posted by Marcdachamp

Yeah, but when did angst become a bad word? Oh yeah, when it was replaced with emo. Angst pretty much created the Marvel age of comics. Peter's angst made him the hero we could all associate ourselves with.

Most characters have a level of angst, but like I said, I know what Dread is syaing, this Civil War MU is pretty ****ing depressing, but I think the mini is just a cool idea.

[Red]

NRAMA: Any other post-Civil War projects that you can name?
JQ: Let’s see, outside of The Confession, we have a project called Civil War: Fallen Son. It’s a five-issue series that is constructed within the five stages of grief. Grief over what? Well, you’ll have to wait and see. What I can tell you is that the series will move from character to character as they deal with a different stage of grief. All five issues are written by Jeph Loeb with a who’s who cast of stellar artists.

Ok I can understand people not being convinced by my theory of Cap dying at the conclusion of CW, but it’s really starting to look more and more likely, especial now with Marvel releasing a book all about grief.

[Dread]

Originally Posted by Darthphere

I don't really think it will be that emo. I mean one stage is anger, acceptance. Whats so emo about anger and acceptance? I mean, I know its fun to bash Civil War and have heaps of posters agreeing with your long ass posts, but I dont see an issue surrounding Wolverine and Denial being angst filled.

When you use the 5 stages of Depression as a MOTIF, you are creating an emo SPONGE.

The problem with overdosing on emo, "angst" or "gritty realism" is that it allows sub-par writers to give the illusion of depth when in reality they're just overdosing on dark emotions. I mean, of course when a tragedy happens, a character will feel bad. Is this news? I normally can live with it, but this is a sentiment that has gripped most of the MU for a year and I do get tired of it. You can have too much of a good thing. Independant movies do this all the time; I remember seeing one, I forget the title, where the film was claiming it was "profound" to claim that if everything in your life went horribly wrong, you'd feel miserable. NO ****, SHERLOCK!

The irony is that overdosing, not merely using, but O.D.ing, on emo-angst-darkness can be just as silly as space gorillas if overused, just the space gorillas have no illusions of depth.

So, yeah, I'm not buying it. I already am getting enough CW material (Marvel's putting out a whopping 46 chapters and counting).

Originally Posted by Darthphere

I mean, I know what Dread is saying, but he reads Runaways every month or so and that comic is full of angst (do not deny it), and he only has good things to say about that comic.

There is a difference between emo and angst.

Emo = "general state of unhappiness or melancholy" (via wikipedia)
Angst = "intense feeling of emotional strife; condition of insecurity, despair, dread"

Angst is more like an event that can pass, Emo is a constant drumbeat.

To be fair, Marvel and modern comics have all but exhausted both in the past 10 years. There's very little that can be done that hasn't been done before. The only exception is perhaps X-23, whereas her lack of thought panels allows her more mystery.

What you are saying is, "Why can you worship RUNAWAYS which uses angst as a theme, but bemoan this mini before it even starts?" The answers are:

1). I am tired of CW emo-angst overkill, especially after watching Speedball suddenly become a masochistic, psychotic, suicidal freak.

2). RUNAWAYS at least has humorous interludes to break up the angst, usually at the hands of Molly; ironically, the character most posters here want to kill. Maybe there is something to be said that comics reflect the wishes of the audience sometimes. Molly is the lightest character on the team and required to pop their angst bubble with more innocent humor sometimes, and half the fans hate her. They wish she was older so she could join the angst too. I don't, but to each their own. CW material is humorless; not saying that isn't appropriate, but eventually it can become draining and soul-sucking if you overdo it. Some movies have made this mistake.

3). I'm a hypocrite. I've never denied it.

What I find puzzling is how some people on message boards believe other posters are like computers in the original STAR TREK; introduce some "logic" to disprove something they say as contradictory, and suddenly they blow up, vanish from existance, or short circut. You've proven that I can tolerate angst in some comics but not in others. Omigod! I suddenly have to, what? Erase all prior statements? Buy a series I don't plan to? Have my head explode? Pfft. If that happened, half of Congress would short circut.

As for Ultimate Ronin, I don't care if it IS a man this time, which I doubt because Bendis is now almost in perpetual "imitate past stories" mode, but it is making me rethink staying on USM after Clone Saga. Eventually I am going to have to stop being the sort of fan I used to roll my eyes at (ones that stayed on books that disappointed them due to "waiting for it to improve" or "maintaining a collection") and cut it off. Bendis is staying on USM for the forseeable future so maybe I'll have to soon realize that expecting him to suddenly improve back to earlier levels may be impossible.

[Darthphere]

Originally Posted by Red X

Ok I can understand people not being convinced by my theory of Cap dying at the conclusion of CW, but it’s really starting to look more and more likely, especial now with Marvel releasing a book all about grief.

From New Avengers:




I wonder who that is, strapped to the table.

[Apprentice]

Well, we know that a Captain America comes out of CW, with one of the stages of grief issues dedicated to him.

[Darthphere]

Originally Posted by Dread

When you use the 5 stages of Depression as a MOTIF, you are creating an emo SPONGE.

The problem with overdosing on emo, "angst" or "gritty realism" is that it allows sub-par writers to give the illusion of depth when in reality they're just overdosing on dark emotions. I mean, of course when a tragedy happens, a character will feel bad. Is this news? I normally can live with it, but this is a sentiment that has gripped most of the MU for a year and I do get tired of it. You can have too much of a good thing. Independant movies do this all the time; I remember seeing one, I forget the title, where the film was claiming it was "profound" to claim that if everything in your life went horribly wrong, you'd feel miserable. NO ****, SHERLOCK!

The irony is that overdosing, not merely using, but O.D.ing, on emo-angst-darkness can be just as silly as space gorillas if overused, just the space gorillas have no illusions of depth.

So, yeah, I'm not buying it. I already am getting enough CW material (Marvel's putting out a whopping 46 chapters and counting).



There is a difference between emo and angst.

Emo = "general state of unhappiness or melancholy" (via wikipedia)
Angst = "intense feeling of emotional strife; condition of insecurity, despair, dread"

Angst is more like an event that can pass, Emo is a constant drumbeat.

To be fair, Marvel and modern comics have all but exhausted both in the past 10 years. There's very little that can be done that hasn't been done before. The only exception is perhaps X-23, whereas her lack of thought panels allows her more mystery.

What you are saying is, "Why can you worship RUNAWAYS which uses angst as a theme, but bemoan this mini before it even starts?" The answers are:

1). I am tired of CW emo-angst overkill, especially after watching Speedball suddenly become a masochistic, psychotic, suicidal freak.

2). RUNAWAYS at least has humorous interludes to break up the angst, usually at the hands of Molly; ironically, the character most posters here want to kill. Maybe there is something to be said that comics reflect the wishes of the audience sometimes. Molly is the lightest character on the team and required to pop their angst bubble with more innocent humor sometimes, and half the fans hate her. They wish she was older so she could join the angst too. I don't, but to each their own. CW material is humorless; not saying that isn't appropriate, but eventually it can become draining and soul-sucking if you overdo it. Some movies have made this mistake.

3). I'm a hypocrite. I've never denied it.

What I find puzzling is how some people on message boards believe other posters are like computers in the original STAR TREK; introduce some "logic" to disprove something they say as contradictory, and suddenly they blow up, vanish from existance, or short circut. You've proven that I can tolerate angst in some comics but not in others. Omigod! I suddenly have to, what? Erase all prior statements? Buy a series I don't plan to? Have my head explode? Pfft. If that happened, half of Congress would short circut.

Stop being so emo Dread, God.


Also, if you're going to keep *****ing, its the 5 stages of Grief. Least get that part right. So you already admitted being a hypocrite, thats cool I respect that. But then, why should I even bother reading your long posts for? If you're going to constantly contradict yourself. All you've gotten is a pitch and some creative etams and you've found it to be overwhelmingly emo. It's funny coming from me, but can you at least wait for a preview page for God's sake? I know you're going to constantly complain about everything Civil War related, but seriously, you're getting as bitter as I am.

[Galact-Gal]

Ronin! (In answer to post 54)

[hippy fascist]

Originally Posted by Dread

As for Ultimate Ronin, I don't care if it IS a man this time, which I doubt because Bendis is now almost in perpetual "imitate past stories" mode, but it is making me rethink staying on USM after Clone Saga. Eventually I am going to have to stop being the sort of fan I used to roll my eyes at (ones that stayed on books that disappointed them due to "waiting for it to improve" or "maintaining a collection") and cut it off. Bendis is staying on USM for the forseeable future so maybe I'll have to soon realize that expecting him to suddenly improve back to earlier levels may be impossible.

*slaps dread around the face*

COME TO YOUR SENSES MAN! You're out at last, don't go back

And to darth, do you not remember the last time marvel did a book based on the five stages of grief...It was a little piece of character assasination called...the other

[Darthphere]

Originally Posted by hippy fascist

*slaps dread around the face*

COME TO YOUR SENSES MAN! You're out at last, don't go back

And to darth, do you not remember the last time marvel did a book based on the five stages of grief...It was a little piece of character assasination called...the other

Hardly the same thing IMO.

[Kitsune]

Originally Posted by Dread

Even though it's only a cover, and a tiny headshot, Chueng even draws a good Stingray. Now THERE is another character, along with Justice, who needs a fresh take and to be written well. He has a great design, good power level, a rich history, good codename (considering some names based on fish range from cool to lame) and is yet another Marvel brainiac. He needs to do more besides sit in his lab studying fish.

Maybe in the next Namor series...

I always liked Stingray as a fun second stringer. AS for named based on fish. I created a character in CoH named "Rainbow Runner" but I don't think anyone realized she was named after a fish.

[Dread]

Originally Posted by Darthphere

Stop being so emo Dread, God.


Also, if you're going to keep *****ing, its the 5 stages of Grief. Least get that part right. So you already admitted being a hypocrite, thats cool I respect that. But then, why should I even bother reading your long posts for? If you're going to constantly contradict yourself. All you've gotten is a pitch and some creative etams and you've found it to be overwhelmingly emo. It's funny coming from me, but can you at least wait for a preview page for God's sake? I know you're going to constantly complain about everything Civil War related, but seriously, you're getting as better as I am.

I don't complain about everything CW related. Slott's THE INITATIVE series has me psyched. OMEGA FLIGHT also looks great so far. I've stated a good dozen times across many topics how CW blew HOM out of the water on every level, even at it's worst (and it has had dynamite sequences and some good dialogue/stories attached, as a whole I'd grade the event maybe a B-.). And it has been providing much needed exposure to a host of B-F listers, at least the ones that survive. Sure, we have Emoball, but we've also had Ultra Girl, or Justice, or Nighthawk having notable appearences.

Joe Q contradicts himself all the time, and he's a well paid EIC. He also denies it. I at least admit I am flawed and human, and post out of pleasure, not to sell a comic. Or anything for that matter. The problem with MB's is no one admits they are flawed, or make mistakes, or so on. I do and you punish me for it?

Grief implies angst and emo. Especially when you use it as a motif. Plus, does the world really need another mini? Why couldn't these reactions be kept to individual books for plot devices? Why do we need ongoings AND the specific mini? Besides, you're missing the best part; if I give it a try and like it, you can lord it over me forever.

[Darthphere]

Originally Posted by Dread

I don't complain about everything CW related. Slott's THE INITATIVE series has me psyched. OMEGA FLIGHT also looks great so far. I've stated a good dozen times across many topics how CW blew HOM out of the water on every level, even at it's worst (and it has had dynamite sequences and some good dialogue/stories attached, as a whole I'd grade the event maybe a B-.). And it has been providing much needed exposure to a host of B-F listers, at least the ones that survive. Sure, we have Emoball, but we've also had Ultra Girl, or Justice, or Nighthawk having notable appearences.

Joe Q contradicts himself all the time, and he's a well paid EIC. He also denies it. I at least admit I am flawed and human, and post out of pleasure, not to sell a comic. Or anything for that matter. The problem with MB's is no one admits they are flawed, or make mistakes, or so on. I do and you punish me for it?

Grief implies angst and emo. Especially when you use it as a motif. Plus, does the world really need another mini? Why couldn't these reactions be kept to individual books for plot devices? Why do we need ongoings AND the specific mini? Besides, you're missing the best part; if I give it a try and like it, you can lord it over me forever.

Not really. I don't play that game Dread.

[Dread]

Originally Posted by hippy fascist

*slaps dread around the face*

COME TO YOUR SENSES MAN! You're out at last, don't go back

And to darth, do you not remember the last time marvel did a book based on the five stages of grief...It was a little piece of character assasination called...the other

Hopefully it won't be as horrid as THE OTHER. Even if I don't read it, I don't wish trash on those who do.

As for USM, the issue I have is that while ULTIMATE CLONE SAGA is abysmal trash, the next arc with the ULTIMATE KNIGHTS taking down Kingpin sounds interesting. Bendis' last stabs at stuff like this, THE WARRIORS arc, and USM ANNUAL #2, were good and enjoyable (even if USM got pwned both times, but that's what he does, lose, get unmasked, get schooled, over and over and over and over and over again, like some damsel in distress). So I wanted to stay for at least that arc; after UCS this title is on an arc-by-arc basis. Just the Ultimate Ronin thing in the middle just puts a damper on what I was expecting was a decent arc. I am not in the mood for more runaround, especially as Bendis is ALREADY resurrecting this tripe in NEW AVENGERS. He needs to buy a new idea. Hell, I can email him ones for free and he can shamelessly rip me off, ANYTHING.

Originally Posted by Kitsune

I always liked Stingray as a fun second stringer. AS for named based on fish. I created a character in CoH named "Rainbow Runner" but I don't think anyone realized she was named after a fish.

I know I wouldn't have.

Stingray's a fun second stringer, but he has some potential. Not for an ongoing, but to be written well in some team book somewhere. He's too classic a design to waste.

[Marcdachamp]

Originally Posted by Darthphere

Most characters have a level of angst, but like I said, I know what Dread is syaing, this Civil War MU is pretty ****ing depressing, but I think the mini is just a cool idea.

You just need to know where to find the fun. Like Runaways, for example.

[Darthphere]

Originally Posted by Marcdachamp

You just need to know where to find the fun. Like Runaways, for example.

Word, even though Runaways does have a level of angst. I'll just stick to ym X-Factor and such.

[Darthphere]

Getting away from all the emo angst talk. Omega Flight is looking tight as hell. Kolins seems to be putting out his best work ever..

[Dread]

Originally Posted by Darthphere

Getting away from all the emo angst talk. Omega Flight is looking tight as hell. Kolins seems to be putting out his best work ever..

I agree. It looks very sweet.

Dan Slott's THE INITATIVE is also looking good from that cover, at least. If anyone can hopefully do justice to, erm, Justice, it's Slott.

[Red]

Originally Posted by Darthphere

From New Avengers:




I wonder who that is, strapped to the table.

How does that look anything like Cap?

[hippy fascist]

Originally Posted by Red X

How does that look anything like Cap?

You can tell from the boots

[Apprentice]

It's deliberately ambiguous as of yet. Could be Cap, could not be Cap. I'm leaning towards it being him, and the "New New Avengers" uniting to rescue him after being gathered by Dr Strange.

[Kool-Aid]

I know its a stupid nitpick, but I hate when artists make the bottom of shoes flat. Its not like it takes that long to add that little detail. whatevah

[SouLeSS]

I'm gonna go with "Tony Stark dies at the end of CW and that causes the end of it, with the hit of it, Cpt. America goes into a drinking binge and so on and so forth".

[BrianWilly]

Originally Posted by Red X

How does that look anything like Cap?

I'd recognize that package anywhere.

[Kitsune]

I'd rather they do a series based on the 7 deadly sins... assuming the issue Lust would be dedicated to She-Hulk or Pulsar

[Darthphere]

Originally Posted by BrianWilly

I'd recognize that package anywhere.

Sadly, I thought the same.