The Thunderbolts Thread

[CaptainStacy]

With this weeks release of issue #110, two of Spider-Man's worst enemies, Norman Osborn & Mac Gargan, will now be featured in a monthly comic.

I enjoyed the first installment (would have paid the $2.99 for the scene with Osborn and Bullseye alone).

Anybody else read it?

[Ultimate Kaine]

I haven't been able to get to the comic shop yet but fear it will be sold out when I do. It definitely looks good from previews I've seen - maybe a little too adult for a non-MAX title - but the inclusion of Gargan Venom sold the idea to me. Why? I don't even like the dude. But I respect continuity more then a year old being adhered to when it would be so easy to drop it, as others do. So I'll check it out.

Plus as someone who's enjoyed Speedball since AMAZING annual #22 (I think), I'm totally stoked about Penance and can't wait to see what they do with him.

[Citizen_Kaine]

I've read T-Bolts since the very begining(Marvel did steal the concept from me) wayyyyyyyy back when the ending to #1 made an entire collective audience drop their comic in surprise,so you'd probably expect me to ***** and moan about changes to the book. You'd be wrong of course, luckily Fabien Niceza didn't kill off every single Thunderbolt to make way room for the new team *coughBendiscough* and a few key members actually were allowed to stay this time(See "Fightbolts" 76-82) granted Swordsman really really sucks, but at least they kept Moonstone and Songbird for the ride. Masochist Speedball is kind of interesting and Greenie easily takes Zemo's spot, however Scorpem inclusion sucks balls. Seriously he looks like crap, and he's an obvious chump, with regards to MK Spidey and Beyond! Hell even Karla says she can make him her puppet once his name is dropped. Obviously Marvel just going for the New Avengers thing, where you throw a bunch of A Listers into a box and see what sells, but Eddie Brock would've been a much better choice, and would have fit with the movie tie in thing Marvel's obsessed with.

Moving on, the biggest problem I had with this new idea is that the villains are a little more, uh homicidal than usual. The old T-bolts had only one known murderer on the team(Former Spidey rogue Beetle), and he voluntarily went to prison because of it. Now you have Venom in action figure form. A creature thats killed god knows how many people, especially adding Carnage to the mix, this is definatly not a good public image to have, including the Green Goblin who last we saw, gassed a church, throw Benjy Poindexter into the mix, and you have combined casualties of more than 1000 people . Redemption passed these guys a long long time ago

[mre]

Goblin gassed a churhc? Waoh, when?
And are you saying Carnage is on the team too?

[matt50]

i was expecting more action out of the book so i was a little disappointed...decent read though with bullseye and norman

[Dangerous]

I meant to pick this up on thurs, but will do so tmr.
Mainly because it features the cool Venom before Brock the bore takes the reins back.

[matt50]

i like the idea of the mac gargan venom but i'm sure marvel will retcon it one day and bring back brock

[Upset Spideyfan]

Originally Posted by mre

Goblin gassed a churhc? Waoh, when?
And are you saying Carnage is on the team too?

I think Goblin threatened to gas a church to force Spidey into a confrontation in the first issue of his Marvel Knights series.

[Dangerous]

Originally Posted by matt50

i like the idea of the mac gargan venom but i'm sure marvel will retcon it one day and bring back brock

It has already been confirmed by JQ, so that Brock is back as Venom in time for SM3.

[matt50]

o yea??? i must of missed that...any links?

[matt50]

as long as eddie doesn't go to the negative zone and find the same exact symbiote there...now that would be stupid...o wait

[Red]

I enjoyed the comic, but the new concept still irks me.

[Dangerous]

Originally Posted by matt50

o yea??? i must of missed that...any links?

I think it was on Newsarama.
But trust me, it's well know that Brock will be Venom again this year.
Which is lame.

[matt50]

yea gargan as venom was a fresh idea rather than the i'll eat your brains eddie brock psycho

[The Comedian]

The one thing I couldn't stand about this issue was that Norman Osborn was "played" by Tommy Lee Jones. I know artists use celebs for reference sometimes, but it was just too distracting for me.

[CaptainStacy]

Originally Posted by Citizen_Kaine

I've read T-Bolts since the very begining(Marvel did steal the concept from me) wayyyyyyyy back when the ending to #1 made an entire collective audience drop their comic in surprise,so you'd probably expect me to ***** and moan about changes to the book. You'd be wrong of course, luckily Fabien Niceza didn't kill off every single Thunderbolt to make way room for the new team *coughBendiscough* and a few key members actually were allowed to stay this time(See "Fightbolts" 76-82) granted Swordsman really really sucks, but at least they kept Moonstone and Songbird for the ride. Masochist Speedball is kind of interesting and Greenie easily takes Zemo's spot, however Scorpem inclusion sucks balls. Seriously he looks like crap, and he's an obvious chump, with regards to MK Spidey and Beyond! Hell even Karla says she can make him her puppet once his name is dropped. Obviously Marvel just going for the New Avengers thing, where you throw a bunch of A Listers into a box and see what sells, but Eddie Brock would've been a much better choice, and would have fit with the movie tie in thing Marvel's obsessed with.

Moving on, the biggest problem I had with this new idea is that the villains are a little more, uh homicidal than usual. The old T-bolts had only one known murderer on the team(Former Spidey rogue Beetle), and he voluntarily went to prison because of it. Now you have Venom in action figure form. A creature thats killed god knows how many people, especially adding Carnage to the mix, this is definatly not a good public image to have, including the Green Goblin who last we saw, gassed a church, throw Benjy Poindexter into the mix, and you have combined casualties of more than 1000 people . Redemption passed these guys a long long time ago

Im going to miss the old dynamic as well, but as you said; a couple of original members made the cut, and i think it's going to be lots of fun watching Osborn interact and lock horns with them.

The new directions isnt so much about redemption. I see it as a stuggle for power and control, between the government, Osborn, Songbird, and Moonstone.

Definitely looking forward to seeing things unfold.

[shinlyle]

I've got this one in my box at the LCS, waiting for me. I've heard alot of good things, so I can't wait to read it.

As for the Gargan-Venom thing...I've liked it since the start, although I like him better as Scorpion.

[Zenien]

Originally Posted by matt50

yea gargan as venom was a fresh idea rather than the i'll eat your brains eddie brock psycho

But it's not like they've done anything interesting with him since his inception as Scorp-Venom. For the longest time he was incredibly lame. Though enough time has passed and I was looking forward to seeing what they did with Scorp-Venom especially since being on a team monthly book really would have given him more opportunities to have exposition... so it is sort of a dissapointment to hear that Venom will be back proper.

[Red]

Why exactly is Osborn Tommy Lee Jones?

[Citizen_Kaine]

Originally Posted by Red X

Why exactly is Osborn Tommy Lee Jones?

Deodato uses a more realistic style, and therefore "borrows" the images of real people to use in his art.

Therefore, his Peter Parker looks like Jason Preistly, his MJ like Liv Tyler, and his Osborn like Tommy Lee Jones

[3dman27]

photorealistic art UGH give me classic comic any day

[Hobgoblin]

I'm still not sure what to make of this. Osborn just isnt a team player. (He left the Sinister Twelve the first chance he got back in MK:SM.) Yes, I'm always up for Norman pumpkin bombing the s*** out of stuff but this concept is just....not in his character. Thats what I awalys liked about him: he's a lone wolf. The "Thunderbolts Mountain" was just corny to me. Thats why I cant stand "team books." Why does all of their stuff have to follow a theme? (Fantasicar, etc.) And who the hell is Jack Flag? Ok, ******ing done.

Still, I agree the beginning scene with Osborn and Bullseye was very cool. Bullseye got owned. Norman wasnt very happy with Gargan for disobeying orders (by becoming Venom) at the end of The Last Stand and now he is Venom's leader. Should be interesting to see how that plays out. And yeah, the cover to the next issue looks very cool.

[3dman27]

jack flag is a former protegee of captain america aperently he registered under the SHRA and was assigned to the csa's thunderbolts team

[wolvie2020]

Loved the 1st issue, I just thought it was great. I'm a big fan of Ellis, and his style just plain rocks, and I really feel that this is the kind of book that is really suited for him, and he can really sink his teeth into this.

The cast is what really has drawn me to this book, it is quite interesting. I mean, it's clear as day, that this is one of Marvel's responses to DC in really upping the ante of their villains throughout several books, (a la Villains United.)

And while I normally hate this kind of unashamedly just using a-listers just to draw people in, (e.g. Bendis' 1st stab at 'The New Avengers,) this idea really works for me.

We've never had a REALLY MEAN long running Marvel major villain team, and had their personalities, storylines etc. really examined in a team setting. I mean, the closest we've ever had has been Spider-Man's Sinister 6's, but they argue and disband as quick as they get together

Originally Posted by Demogoblin

I'm still not sure what to make of this. Osborn just isnt a team player. (He left the Sinister Twelve the first chance he got back in MK:SM.) Yes, I'm always up for Norman pumpkin bombing the s*** out of stuff but this concept is just....not in his character. Thats what I awalys liked about him: he's a lone wolf. The "Thunderbolts Mountain" was just corny to me. Thats why I cant stand "team books." Why does all of their stuff have to follow a theme? (Fantasicar, etc.) And who the hell is Jack Flag? Ok, ******ing done.

I know what you mean, but one of the things that I like, is the fact that Marvel has spent so long setting up this situation. If you picked up all of the little details in other books, (especially Front Line,) it makes a lot of sense as to why this has happened.

Peter's identity is the main thing Osborn always had over Peter, and after Peter unmasked himself, he took away the main thing Osborn has on him. In Front Line, he yells that Peter changed the rules, (which he did, in Osborn's twisted way of the world,) and the SHIELD agents say 'yes, are you willing to play by the new rules?' After Peter switched sides, this is how he can get one over on Peter again, in a HUGE way again.

Not to mention, what the hell else does Norman have? He was in prison, all of his company's money and research have been ransacked by SHIELD, and other various companies. His son is dead, it's now public that he was, (is,) the Green Goblin, the registration act is now law, so the only other choice he has is to go into the negative zone into the 42 complex.

Aside from that, he has nanites in his bloodstream, and is being abused/helped(?) by mysterious shady figures. So right now, being the leader of the world's most ruthless goverment sanctioned, (semi,) covert team that deals with the dirtiest situations, and the dirtiest people, really is the best, if not only choice for him. I really don't see another way forward for him.

And I understand that he's a loner type character, (that's the kind of personality traits that I loved about him and Spidey, ugh,) but everything has changed now, war does that to a country, and Marvel are trying very hard to show that fact in their fictional universe. Nothing can really be the same now, so every has to pick their place, and how they're going to fit in. And it's not like Norman's all of a sudden going to be all pally with ANYONE. It's VERY clear from that start, he is only EVER going to look out for himself, and he digs being in control of anyone more than anything.

And I wouldn't worry too much about the cheese factor, (Thunderbolts Mountain, etc.) Ellis himself detests stuff like that, and would only put it in a story for a very obvious/ironic comic effect, (just look at that toy advert where Cap is a terrorist.) This book is going to be gritty, mean, with a healthy dose of British satire.

Above all else, I'm really looking forward to Venom. We all know that Brock will be back sometime, but I really hope the success of this book makes Marvel re-think about doing it for this film. The way Gargan makes his decision in Civil War: Choosing Sides was bloody cool. We haven't had Venom be this cool in YEEEEAAAARS. Don't get me wrong guys, I'm a huge Brock fan, and I loved the Brock-Venom for so long, but we have to admit, he really got written into a corner. Even though I felt that Jenkins did a really good job trying to make him meaner, and much more villain like, and set him up for a while, it just started to seem like to me that the Brock-Venom just had lost all of that excitment that made him what he was at the start. And so much bad writing and convoluted history had REALLY started to show, as it became really difficult things to do new and exciting things with him without it not making sense, or doing (another!) bloody retcon. This incarnation of Venom is quite terrifying, and I have no idea what's coming next. I love that.

More than anything what Millar/Marvel have done is basically bring back the original intention of Venom. The symbiote was originally inteded to jump from host to host, when the writers felt that they wanted to do it. But Venom got so popular in the 90's, (90's comics, lol,) that he became Venom: Lethal Protector. And at the time, Marvel was run by guys in suits, who understood very little about the comics, or writing full stop. All they understood was; 'Venom sells! Let's put out loads of Venom comics! With him making loads of guest appearances in other books! Who cares who's writing!? Who cares about the story!? Just sell sell sell!' After that, Venom heavily lost his edge and essence IMO.

To me, Gargan-Venom is so much closer to the guy that scared the crap out of me all those years ago the 1st time I saw him on the last page of ASM 299, than what Brock Venom has been for the last few years. I really feel like Brock has become a parody of himself. But you know what? The thing I like most about this is that the symbiote can STILL jump from person to person, it doen't HAVE to stay with Gargan. And is DOESN'T have to go to Eddie straight away, I think it'd be really cool if it jumped around for a bit. Not to say I don't want it to go back to Eddie, it HAS to! And to me, the interaction of Brock-Venom will be much more intersting after all the jumping. And it can keep leaving Eddie and coming back again and again, it'd really give Eddie a sense of torture.

Well anyway, the 1st issue rocked, lol

[CaptainStacy]

Originally Posted by wolvie2020

Above all else, I'm really looking forward to Venom. We all know that Brock will be back sometime, but I really hope the success of this book makes Marvel re-think about doing it for this film. The way Gargan makes his decision in Civil War: Choosing Sides was bloody cool. We haven't had Venom be this cool in YEEEEAAAARS. Don't get me wrong guys, I'm a huge Brock fan, and I loved the Brock-Venom for so long, but we have to admit, he really got written into a corner. Even though I felt that Jenkins did a really good job trying to make him meaner, and much more villain like, and set him up for a while, it just started to seem like to me that the Brock-Venom just had lost all of that excitment that made him what he was at the start. And so much bad writing and convoluted history had REALLY started to show, as it became really difficult things to do new and exciting things with him without it not making sense, or doing (another!) bloody retcon. This incarnation of Venom is quite terrifying, and I have no idea what's coming next. I love that.

More than anything what Millar/Marvel have done is basically bring back the original intention of Venom. The symbiote was originally inteded to jump from host to host, when the writers felt that they wanted to do it. But Venom got so popular in the 90's, (90's comics, lol,) that he became Venom: Lethal Protector. And at the time, Marvel was run by guys in suits, who understood very little about the comics, or writing full stop. All they understood was; 'Venom sells! Let's put out loads of Venom comics! With him making loads of guest appearances in other books! Who cares who's writing!? Who cares about the story!? Just sell sell sell!' After that, Venom heavily lost his edge and essence IMO.

To me, Gargan-Venom is so much closer to the guy that scared the crap out of me all those years ago the 1st time I saw him on the last page of ASM 299, than what Brock Venom has been for the last few years. I

I agree. The Choosing Sides mini completely sold me on Gargan as Venom. If Brock never returns, i wont mind one bit.

Im really hoping Peter and Norman's respective new teams end up facing off as well. That'd be sweet!.