The man who laughs: The Joker thread

I am Batman · 08-12-2005, 12:38 AM

How do you think they should make Joker's smile?

They could just have the actor pull as big a grin as he can or they could go with makeup like they did in B89:

Or they could use computers to enlarge the smile like what was done to the character Phlox in the show Enterprise:

I think they shoud cg it. Itcan really make Joker creepy, and it can not only be done on his smile but on other facial expressions such as frowns. But Nolan has stated that he wants his Batman movies to be as realistic as possible so he may just go with makeup. What do you think?

Boom · 08-12-2005, 12:45 AM

Option B.

The Kid · 08-12-2005, 01:01 AM

can't see the second

DOO BEE · 08-12-2005, 01:05 AM

or how about just an actor who has a normal smile and not some fake effect, i love the realisic gritty batman of today, so lets keep it that way.

that rhymes...

Cats · 08-12-2005, 01:16 AM

I'd prefer if he had a naturally creepy smile like the guy who played a younger Jack Napier in B'89 (in the flashback scene) than a costumed one like the one Jack Nicholson had.

DeFett · 08-12-2005, 01:21 AM

Like this

Spider Ham · 08-12-2005, 01:25 AM

No silly enhancements.

His smile needs to be all natural.

Punch · 08-12-2005, 01:26 AM

like I said in another thread we have to be carful with these movies. It's a slippery slope once they start with the CGI

SatanBurger · 08-12-2005, 01:31 AM

On one hand, I think a CGI enhancement could look creepy if it followed something close to the Mouth of Sauron on Return of the King (a scene deleted fromt he theatrical release). But it is a slippery slope, and in the end it's just unecessary. Might compromise whatever subtleties a talented actor brings to the performance.

The Kid · 08-12-2005, 01:35 AM

just find someone like willem dafoe or jim carrey who has a rubbery kind of face they can transform themselves, then add a prosthetic teeth in.

LIke this

Shoemeister · 08-12-2005, 01:38 AM

No constant, forced prosthetic smile. Worked for 89, but I want to see the new Joker smile naturally, because of his sheer insanity.

Spider Ham · 08-12-2005, 01:41 AM

The bottom line is that The Joker needs to be able to display other emotions. He can't just be grinning all the time.

The Kid · 08-12-2005, 01:41 AM

sorry, but I swear, every suggestion for the new batman movie villians seems to base their ideas off of the 60s batman show..

Penguin just some crimminal guy with a big nose.

and now Joker just some dude who's so insane he smiles a lot.

not the way I'd do it...

Spider Ham · 08-12-2005, 01:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wesyeed

sorry, but I swear, every suggestion for the new batman movie villians seems to base their ideas off of the 60s batman show..

Penguin just some crimminal guy with a big nose.

and now Joker just some dude who's so insane he smiles a lot.

Except that is who those two characters are.

The Penguin isn't some mutant freak. He isn't even crazy.

The Joker's smile isn't a perminant deformity. He can make other expressions.

The Kid · 08-12-2005, 01:47 AM

hold on... wha... wh.. what?

Punch · 08-12-2005, 01:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spider Ham

Except that is who those two characters are.

The Penguin isn't some mutant freak. He isn't even crazy.

The Joker's smile is a perminant deformity. He can make other expressions.

his smile isn't a deformity

Spider Ham · 08-12-2005, 01:49 AM

What? Never read a comic before?

Spider Ham · 08-12-2005, 01:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Punch

his smile isn't a deformity

Sorry, that was supposed to say "isn't".

Comic Book Boy · 08-12-2005, 02:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by I am Batman

How do you think they should make Joker's smile?

They could just have the actor pull as big a grin as he can or they could go with makeup like they did in B89:

Or they could use computers to enlarge the smile like what was done to the character Phlox in the show Enterprise:

I think they shoud cg it. Itcan really make Joker creepy, and it can not only be done on his smile but on other facial expressions such as frowns. But Nolan has stated that he wants his Batman movies to be as realistic as possible so he may just go with makeup. What do you think?

That star trek pic looks lame. The B89 look is best. No CGI.

Timstuff · 08-12-2005, 02:51 AM

The smile should not be fixed, that's my opinion. The actor needs to be able to act through the makeup, and I don't know where people got the notion that the Joker is incapable of not smiling. Maybe they could have a few shots in the movie where the actor's smile is "assisted" by a prosthetic aparatus to creep people out, but he should not have a fixed grin.

Oh yeah, and prosthetic teeth wouldn't be a bad idea. It would give him a fuller grin and make him seem creepier.

DavidTyler · 08-12-2005, 06:46 AM

I agree. Natural smile.

I did an amatuer Batman film and my actor playing the Joker had a technique for getting that grin naturally. I enhanced it by taking the red line of his lips and making it as thin as possible while still being visible. This had the effect of making his smile seem larger.

As to Nicholson's prosthetic. I actually hate that thing. I had to sit through the film a few times before I finally stopped staring at the rubber on the lower half of his face. Very distracting.

If they must do a prosthetic, please do it a little more natural looking and have it allow for other expressions.

lujho · 08-12-2005, 02:51 PM

I hate Jack's prosthetic too. It didn't really reflect the visual of the comic all that well. Certainly no more than a natural smile would have. It just looked fake. It didn't look like a guy who had a permanent smile, it looked like a guy with a rubber smile stuck around his mouth.

You need a guy with a great smile first. And yeah, prosthetic teeth would be a great idea as long as they're still believably big and not stupidly huge. They shouldn't be obvious. Remember, the chemical bath didn't MUTATE the joker - there's no reason he'd have stupidly big teeth (or chin or nose for that matter).

Then paint the lips (I'd like to see them try a darker red), and extend the painted parts at the corners just a bit. Like the Gotham Public Works joker. Just to widen up the smile a tad.

http://www.gothampublicworks.com/joker.htm

THEN... if you need to do anything regarding Joker having actually damaged his nerves/muscles (which isn't really neccessary IMO), but IF you do, do it like this:

By acting. Just have the actor's "neutral" mouth expression be a slight smile... as if when he's totally relaxing his mouth it doesn't close properly. He CAN close it and make any expression he wants and talk properly, it's just that when he's not doing anything with his mouth, it'll be slightly open in a slight smile, whereas a normal person would just have a straight closed mouth.

I'm not sure how that would work, and it'd probably depend on the actor anyway, but I think it's as far as they should go.

Anyone who brings up Conrad Veidt's prosthesis in The Man Who Laughs gets a whack on the head.

The Chairman · 08-12-2005, 04:54 PM

The smile for Jack's Joker was perfect. It looked very natural. They should just keep it that way. Maybe hire the same makeup guys.

Robin91939 · 08-12-2005, 05:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ANTHONYNASTI

The smile for Jack's Joker was perfect. It looked very natural. They should just keep it that way. Maybe hire the same makeup guys.

NATURAL?!

It was so forced and fake. I realize that it was 1989, but I want better for this movie, its gonna be 2006 when it's made for God sake.

-R

Gamma Ray · 08-12-2005, 05:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ANTHONYNASTI

The smile for Jack's Joker was perfect. It looked very natural. They should just keep it that way. Maybe hire the same makeup guys.

Oh yes... Reeeeaaaally natural looking.

View Poll Results: Do you like the new look for The Joker?
Yes	161	58.97%
No	8	2.93%
Undecided	6	2.20%
Kinda, could be better	26	9.52%
It's the best Joker look ever	72	26.37%
Voters: 273. You may not vote on this poll

08-12-2005, 12:38 AM	#1
I am Batman Side-Kick Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Gotham City Posts: 693	The man who laughs: The Joker thread How do you think they should make Joker's smile? They could just have the actor pull as big a grin as he can or they could go with makeup like they did in B89: Or they could use computers to enlarge the smile like what was done to the character Phlox in the show Enterprise: I think they shoud cg it. Itcan really make Joker creepy, and it can not only be done on his smile but on other facial expressions such as frowns. But Nolan has stated that he wants his Batman movies to be as realistic as possible so he may just go with makeup. What do you think? __________________ I am vengeance, I am the night, I AM BATMAN "You're a stand up guy Bats, don't ever let them call you a crazed loner." -The Flash, JLU

08-12-2005, 12:45 AM	#2
Boom I got nothin' Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Sitting on the nitpicket fence Posts: 28,112	Re: Joker's Smile Option B. __________________ "I had no idea a ninety-year-old man could cave in my chest cavity like that."

08-12-2005, 01:01 AM	#3
The Kid AMERICA FTW Join Date: May 2005 Location: Bronx Posts: 12,766	Re: Joker's Smile can't see the second __________________ Superman Returns is better than the Dark Knight

08-12-2005, 01:05 AM	#4
DOO BEE The Crimson Saint ® Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: i live in Melbourne, Victoria, Australia, Posts: 1,047	Re: Joker's Smile or how about just an actor who has a normal smile and not some fake effect, i love the realisic gritty batman of today, so lets keep it that way. that rhymes... __________________ BALE \| HARDY \| HATHAWAY THE \| DARK \| KNIGHT \| RISES

08-12-2005, 01:16 AM	#5
Cats Hot-blooded Feline Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 1,190	Re: Joker's Smile I'd prefer if he had a naturally creepy smile like the guy who played a younger Jack Napier in B'89 (in the flashback scene) than a costumed one like the one Jack Nicholson had. __________________ He's not our hero. He's a silent guardian. A watchful protector. A dark knight...

08-12-2005, 01:21 AM	#6
DeFett Side-Kick Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Adelaide, Australia Posts: 1,738	Re: Joker's Smile Like this

08-12-2005, 01:25 AM	#7
Spider Ham Side-Kick Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 104	Re: Joker's Smile No silly enhancements. His smile needs to be all natural.

08-12-2005, 01:26 AM	#8
Punch Side-Kick Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 843	Re: Joker's Smile like I said in another thread we have to be carful with these movies. It's a slippery slope once they start with the CGI __________________ *As for myself: I had come to the conclusion that there was nothing sacred about myself or any human being, that we were all machines, doomed to collide and collide and collide.* - Kurt Vonnegut

08-12-2005, 01:31 AM	#9
SatanBurger Side-Kick Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 227	Re: Joker's Smile On one hand, I think a CGI enhancement could look creepy if it followed something close to the Mouth of Sauron on Return of the King (a scene deleted fromt he theatrical release). But it is a slippery slope, and in the end it's just unecessary. Might compromise whatever subtleties a talented actor brings to the performance.

08-12-2005, 01:35 AM	#10
The Kid AMERICA FTW Join Date: May 2005 Location: Bronx Posts: 12,766	Re: Joker's Smile just find someone like willem dafoe or jim carrey who has a rubbery kind of face they can transform themselves, then add a prosthetic teeth in. LIke this __________________ Superman Returns is better than the Dark Knight Last edited by The Kid; 08-12-2005 at 01:38 AM.

08-12-2005, 01:38 AM	#11
Shoemeister srsly Join Date: May 2005 Location: Beer, CA Posts: 7,522	Re: Joker's Smile No constant, forced prosthetic smile. Worked for 89, but I want to see the new Joker smile naturally, because of his sheer insanity.

08-12-2005, 01:41 AM	#12
Spider Ham Side-Kick Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 104	Re: Joker's Smile The bottom line is that The Joker needs to be able to display other emotions. He can't just be grinning all the time.

08-12-2005, 01:41 AM	#13
The Kid AMERICA FTW Join Date: May 2005 Location: Bronx Posts: 12,766	Re: Joker's Smile sorry, but I swear, every suggestion for the new batman movie villians seems to base their ideas off of the 60s batman show.. Penguin just some crimminal guy with a big nose. and now Joker just some dude who's so insane he smiles a lot. not the way I'd do it... __________________ Superman Returns is better than the Dark Knight Last edited by The Kid; 08-12-2005 at 01:45 AM.

08-12-2005, 01:47 AM	#15
The Kid AMERICA FTW Join Date: May 2005 Location: Bronx Posts: 12,766	Re: Joker's Smile hold on... wha... wh.. what? __________________ Superman Returns is better than the Dark Knight Last edited by The Kid; 08-12-2005 at 01:52 AM.

08-12-2005, 01:49 AM	#17
Spider Ham Side-Kick Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 104	Re: Joker's Smile What? Never read a comic before?

08-12-2005, 02:51 AM	#20
Timstuff Banned User Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Connecticut Posts: 19,920	Re: Joker's Smile The smile should not be fixed, that's my opinion. The actor needs to be able to act through the makeup, and I don't know where people got the notion that the Joker is incapable of not smiling. Maybe they could have a few shots in the movie where the actor's smile is "assisted" by a prosthetic aparatus to creep people out, but he should not have a fixed grin. Oh yeah, and prosthetic teeth wouldn't be a bad idea. It would give him a fuller grin and make him seem creepier.

08-12-2005, 06:46 AM	#21
DavidTyler Side-Kick Join Date: Jan 2002 Posts: 4,332	Re: Joker's Smile I agree. Natural smile. I did an amatuer Batman film and my actor playing the Joker had a technique for getting that grin naturally. I enhanced it by taking the red line of his lips and making it as thin as possible while still being visible. This had the effect of making his smile seem larger. As to Nicholson's prosthetic. I actually hate that thing. I had to sit through the film a few times before I finally stopped staring at the rubber on the lower half of his face. Very distracting. If they must do a prosthetic, please do it a little more natural looking and have it allow for other expressions.

08-12-2005, 02:51 PM	#22
lujho Awaiting Email Confirmation Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Adelaide, Australia Posts: 4,259	Re: Joker's Smile I hate Jack's prosthetic too. It didn't really reflect the visual of the comic all that well. Certainly no more than a natural smile would have. It just looked fake. It didn't look like a guy who had a permanent smile, it looked like a guy with a rubber smile stuck around his mouth. You need a guy with a great smile first. And yeah, prosthetic teeth would be a great idea as long as they're still believably big and not stupidly huge. They shouldn't be obvious. Remember, the chemical bath didn't MUTATE the joker - there's no reason he'd have stupidly big teeth (or chin or nose for that matter). Then paint the lips (I'd like to see them try a darker red), and extend the painted parts at the corners just a bit. Like the Gotham Public Works joker. Just to widen up the smile a tad. http://www.gothampublicworks.com/joker.htm THEN... if you need to do anything regarding Joker having actually damaged his nerves/muscles (which isn't really neccessary IMO), but IF you do, do it like this: By acting. Just have the actor's "neutral" mouth expression be a slight smile... as if when he's totally relaxing his mouth it doesn't close properly. He CAN close it and make any expression he wants and talk properly, it's just that when he's not doing anything with his mouth, it'll be slightly open in a slight smile, whereas a normal person would just have a straight closed mouth. I'm not sure how that would work, and it'd probably depend on the actor anyway, but I think it's as far as they should go. Anyone who brings up Conrad Veidt's prosthesis in The Man Who Laughs gets a whack on the head. Last edited by lujho; 08-12-2005 at 03:29 PM.

08-12-2005, 04:54 PM	#23
The Chairman Pimps' Main Prophet Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Down in the Jackson Cage Posts: 18,822	Re: Joker's Smile The smile for Jack's Joker was perfect. It looked very natural. They should just keep it that way. Maybe hire the same makeup guys.

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Switch to Hybrid Mode Switch to Threaded Mode