The man who laughs: The Joker thread

[Rynan]

Originally Posted by Paste Pot Pete

Joker has gotten progressively wimpier over the years. Bob Kane's original could definitely go toe-to-toe with Bats.

Proof:

[Crooklyn]

I don't mind Joker getting in a few good hits, but I'll be damned if Bats ever loses a fight to Joker. That just makes Bruce's training all the more useless.

[Rynan]

Originally Posted by Crooklyn

I don't mind Joker getting in a few good hits, but I'll be damned if Bats ever loses a fight to Joker. That just makes Bruce's training all the more useless.

I guess your theorem is that when you graduate from any martial arts school your automatically given a magic potion which makes you invulnerable to losing.

Training doesn't prepare you for everything. There are times in your life in which all the training in the world doesn't help and you get knocked on your ass. It's like taking a test when you don't even know what your being tested on. Sure, you how to read and write and some information, but you still don't know what your being tested on. Your doomed to fail your first try. The same with fighting. If you don't know what their strategy, their strength or what they have up their sleeves, you will probabley lose.

[Paste Pot Pete]

The training is nothing! The will is everything!

No, seriously. I think it's likely that the Joker will "surprise" Batman in their first confrontation, sort of like Scarecrow did.

On the topic, there's one thing I'd like not to see from The Joker. I don't like the whole "Joker being afraid of getting his ass kicked by Batman." TAS (for all my love of it) is one of the biggest culprits here; the Joker is inconsistent at best - sometimes he leaps off buildings with wild abandon, then sometimes he does the comic "nervous gulp" before getting slugged by Bats. Nicholson's Joker also gotway too nervous when Batman started whooping him.

I'm glad Ledger described him as "fearless"; I think that's a good sign. My idea of the Joker is someone far too insane to be afraid. Fear (of true danger) is rational. Joker is anything but rational, and I think when he's depicted as being genuinely afraid of death or pain, he's revealing a level of rationality that I don't think should be there.

And THAT should be Batman's dilemna when facing the Joker. He's built his whole persona on fear; it was the theme of Begins. But the question in TDK should be: how do you strike fear in the heart of a man so insane that he feels no fear (even though he should!)?

[Nepenthes]

Originally Posted by ghost_x

Juggernaut


Ahh yes, I remember this picture, it was created soon after Ledger was cast. I do remember there actually being more to the picture, there was a mirror and some good lighting, that really made the manip work.

That's a great base pic for the Joker and a very nice manip. That's the manicured type of Joker I want to see starting out in the film, and by the end he's all disheveled and demonic looking.

Here's my version of the same pic which I did before seeing this one here^ If I had the time I'd make it less saturated and take out the reds in the background. The best bit is the EYES i think. comments?




This whole thing about the Jokers fighting ability seems pretty simple to me. He's a scrapper, he can get a few wild shots in but he's not a trained fighter and Batman shouldn't have any real trouble beating him after the Jokers surprise attack and lucky strikes are through. He's definitely dangerous on his own, but to be a real physical threat he requires some plan involving weapons, traps, goons etc.

Also keep in mind that Joker, in the comics, is slightly impervious to pain and has above average strength for someone his size. This has been suggested in a few places. His pain receptors were killed by chemicals and he's constantly flushed with andrenaline.

[Castlewood]

I just had a HUGE revelation.

I have *proof* that we won't get Joker's origin in this movie. How, you ask? It's all in "Begins"... one particular scene.. and one particular line of dialogue. It sums it all up... It perfectly explains why a Joker origin is pointless.

Does anybody got it?

If I'm right (and I think I might be), this means that Nolan and company have had this planned for a reeeally long time, and it explains why I've always wondered about this line, and why it seemed "out of place" to me ever since I saw it. The line confused me for over a YEAR, and now I finally understand... It's like I've been enlightened!!! Hell, I'm willing to bet that Joker will actually SAY this line, too!!

Anyone? Anyone? Bueller?

[Crooklyn]

How 'bout you just tell us this huge revelation.

[Keyser Sushi]

Originally Posted by TempleFugit

I just had a HUGE revelation.

I have *proof* that we won't get Joker's origin in this movie. How, you ask? It's all in "Begins"... one particular scene.. and one particular line of dialogue. It sums it all up... It perfectly explains why a Joker origin is pointless.

Does anybody got it?

If I'm right (and I think I might be), this means that Nolan and company have had this planned for a reeeally long time, and it explains why I've always wondered about this line, and why it seemed "out of place" to me ever since I saw it. The line confused me for over a YEAR, and now I finally understand... It's like I've been enlightened!!! Hell, I'm willing to bet that Joker will actually SAY this line, too!!

Anyone? Anyone? Bueller?

Um, yeah... I got nothin'.

[Castlewood]

edit

[Castlewood]

edit

[Crooklyn]

How was the line "out of place" in BB? And how in the world would Joker say the exact thing Rachel has said?

[Keyser Sushi]

...

[Castlewood]

Originally Posted by Crooklyn

How was the line "out of place" in BB? And how in the world would Joker say the exact thing Rachel has said?

In my opinion, it kind of goes against what Bruce is doing. He can't fight crime as Bruce Wayne, he has to become a symbol, and the only symbol he can become is Batman. But yet, Bruce has trained, mind body and spirit, so it IS Bruce fighting in this war. Yet, it's not who he is underneath? That has everything to do with it!
The scene is kind of redundant. Why does Rachel need to know who he is? He's Batman now... what does it matter?
That's my point about the Joker... who the hell cares who he is underneath?? He's the JOKER now.. not someone else. Batman is STILL Bruce Wayne underneath... that's the difference.
If Joker kills Rachel, maybe he'll stumble upon that line... maybe it's her philosophy, and he happens to hear it, and when he says the line to Batman, it suddenly clicks to him that Joker's gotten to her.

I'm sure that confused everyone, lol. Sorry.

[I Am The Knight]

Um, right. It's all good TempleFugit....

[Paste Pot Pete]

Originally Posted by TempleFugit

I'm sure that confused everyone, lol. Sorry.

That's okay.

It's what you dooooooooo.

[Nepenthes]

Nice idea, but I don't buy it.

People WANT to know who the Joker is. They'll be pissed off if they leave knowing nothing.

[kytrigger]

what line was he talking about?

[ghost_x]

Originally Posted by Nepenthes

Nice idea, but I don't buy it.

People WANT to know who the Joker is. They'll be pissed off if they leave knowing nothing.

I don't think it's so much a case of knowing Joker's identity, it's more an issue of understanding what drives him to be the character he is

[hannya]

Originally Posted by ghost_x

Ahh yes, I remember this picture, it was created soon after Ledger was cast. I do remember there actually being more to the picture, there was a mirror and some good lighting, that really made the manip work.

Er... actually I created the picture in Photoshop on Sunday afternoon using an (untouched) photo I found on Google.
But anyway, glad it triggered a false memory! The Joker would be proud!

[ghost_x]

Originally Posted by hannya

Er... actually I created the picture in Photoshop on Sunday afternoon using an (untouched) photo I found on Google.
But anyway, glad it triggered a false memory! The Joker would be proud!

Well than an identical photo was created well before you even thought about doing it

[Arkard]

http://www.jitteryjim.com/media/stuff/tattoos/Joker.jpg

This is my mate down from IMDB. I love this guy. I really, really do.

[Mr. Thing]

Originally Posted by ghost_x

Well than an identical photo was created well before you even thought about doing it

The one done before hannya's was noticeably different. The older one had a lot of purple and the Joker was stood next to a mirror. In hannya's however, there is a green hue cast over the picture and not so much maniping in the actual picture.

[regwec]

The Joker has been emasculated over the years, just as he has become more and more villainised, and just as Batman has become more or less immortalised. In the 1940s, both Batman and The Joker were experienced fighters, and that was that. Thus they could "scrap" without either having an obvious dominance. Subsequently, Batman's fighting skill has been given a more or less spiritual dimension, with connections to Lady Shiva and Eastern mysticism. Therefore, The Joker has stopped offering so much physical resistance. At the same time, The Joker's increased depths of evil (the murder of Jason Todd, holding a gun to a baby's head) has probably made it necessary to weaken him, to give the character some balance and vulnerability.

My feeling is that The Joker should be a fast, tough opponent with a wealth of dirty tricks to draw upon. And a flick knife.

[Arkard]

The Joker's main style of fight should be CRAZY.
There should be no style to it come to think of it, no reason, maybe too much silly movies, unexpected kicks, sucker punches, conceilved weapons. Impossible to predict. Getting into a few scraps in Poland myself, I know such opponents can be very, and I mean very tough. Just look at this:
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y24...ter/img395.jpg
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y24...ter/img396.jpg
Hardcore...

[titan101]

woah... major joker - ass - kicking.