Anthony Michael Hall in TDK

[itsthebatman]

@ Mysterio: Lucius Fox was created in 1979 in the comics, well before any movies. Rachel Dawes was created for BB.

[Mysterio]

Originally Posted by itsthebatman

@ Mysterio: Lucius Fox was created in 1979 in the comics, well before any movies. Rachel Dawes was created for BB.

really? i stand corrected.

[Castlewood]

What if they pulled a "Ken Watanabe is Ra's Al Ghul", and Anthony Michael Hall is the REAL Joker? Heath is just a decoy.

[That-Guy]

Originally Posted by TempleFugit

What if they pulled a "Ken Watanabe is Ra's Al Ghul", and Anthony Michael Hall is the REAL Joker? Heath is just a decoy.

Yeah, I was wondering this myself... mostly because the Joker voice we hear in the trailer sounds a LOT like AMH. It probably isn't him, but you never know.

It could actually all work out reasonably well except for the fact that it would feel kind of "been there, done that" and thus people would be disappointed. Still, someone (Nolan, I believe) did make some remark that like in BB, some characters in TDK aren't going to be what they seem. Take that for what it's worth, I suppose.

For what it's worth, I think AMH could play a great Joker. I could also see him very easily as Zsasz, but of course, that character was already in the last movie.

[Figs]

Originally Posted by StorminNorman

Of course calling someone stupid for having differing opinions is overreacting. However considering you are not new to these forums, I figured you knew that was my style.

However for you to care if someone on a message board called your opinion stupid is equally ridiculous as the act of calling your opinion stupid. Grow a pair

No, im just not a doormat that let's people talk **** to me. I don't sit there quietly and take it up the tailpipe. As for what I was saying, maybe your in the minority of people that wanted Bettany as Joker. Meaning, you wanted him for acting talent as opposed to just looks. That was the whole point of my post, was that too many people were voting for him or Glover simply because of thier looks. I guess I should check out those two other movies you listed since I've only seen him in A Knights Tale and The DaVinci Code.

[Matchbox]

Originally Posted by That-Guy

Yeah, I was wondering this myself... mostly because the Joker voice we hear in the trailer sounds a LOT like AMH. It probably isn't him, but you never know.

I just listened to the trailer again and...you know what? The Joker does indeed sound a bit like Anthony Micheal Hall. Also, he doesn't sound ANYTHING like Ledger. I know that it isn't uncommon for actors to drastically change their voice, but I do hear a bit of Anthony in the trailer...or maybe my mind's just playing tricks on me.

In either case, I seriously doubt Nolan would play another role-switcheroo game with us--especially when Ledger's Joker performance seeems to be shaping up to be something quite epic.

-Matchbox

[Crook]

Why wasn't this poll made public? There are 15 people here whose heads I want to bash in.

[That-Guy]

Originally Posted by Matchbox

I just listened to the trailer again and...you know what? The Joker does indeed sound a bit like Anthony Micheal Hall. Also, he doesn't sound ANYTHING like Ledger. I know that it isn't uncommon for actors to drastically change their voice, but I do hear a bit of Anthony in the trailer...or maybe my mind's just playing tricks on me.

In either case, I seriously doubt Nolan would play another role-switcheroo game with us--especially when Ledger's Joker performance seeems to be shaping up to be something quite epic.

-Matchbox

Very true. I guess I just have to take into account that I can't recall ever hearing Ledger do an American accent before, so I really have no idea what it will sound like. But if that is his voice in the trailer (which in all likeliness it is), it sounds good to me. He sounds deranged and sadistic... which is exaclty how the Joker should be. But yeah, that voice did sound like AMH to me and I played it for one of my friends and she was CONVINCED it was him. Only time will tell I guess.

[Mysterio]

Originally Posted by Drexx

Why wasn't this poll made public? There are 15 people here whose heads I want to bash in.

the poll was created as a separate thread just a few days ago and was merged with an existing thread.

[StorminNorman]

Originally Posted by Keyser Soze

And this is probably why he wasn't cast as The Joker. Nolan likes treading new ground in his casting, I doubt he wanted one of the current go-to-guys for villainy to be cast.

Yes, I love the real out of left field casting

like Christian Bale playing a character with a double life...

Liam Neeson playing a mentor...

Michael Caine playing a wise badass british guy...

[StorminNorman]

Originally Posted by Mysterio

the assumption here, of course, is that he's playing a known Batman character, but we have to have a starting point somewhere so this one is as good as any. assuming villains outnumber known good guys, then odds are in favor of villain. but i still go back to his "i play a good guy."

The Riddler, in current comics, is technically a good guy.

that can't be called a fact since Lucius Fox is a character created for the movies. no previous comic book relationship between the two characters exists because one of the characters doesn't exist in the comic world. it isn't necessary for Vernon's character to be in court with Eckhart for every single case - if at all. we also can't assume that all courtroom shots have been filmed. they may have filmed establishing shots - crowds in the galley, etc., but other shots from a studio set may be upcoming. according to TLH, Harvey is scarred in court. assuming that this scene will be loyal to the comics, they haven't filmed this yet and there are still opportunities to do so. again, the biggest piece of evidence against VF is "i play a good guy."

Lucius Fox is a comic book character. Also while not necessary for Vernon to be in every single court case, if Vernon was going to be a character warranting screen time through out the film - he would be involved in A court case. All of which have been filmed. Vernon is not a bad guy either, he is simply a pathetic guy.

the audition parts were never labeled as "batman wannabes." they were given the name VIGILANTE. Batman was given the name AVENGER. it was being kept secret.

However this sub plot was made available only and any one with half a brain could figure it out. WB knew we had the movies code name, and yet they still decided to go through with casting in this way.

yes, everyone knows Harvey Dent becomes Two Face, but it hasn't been officially revealed that Two Face is in the movie. we only know for certain that he is due to spy pics. if the part of the story AMH is trying to protect is Two Face, then there isn't really the need for secrecy since Eckhart has referred to himself as "Harvey Two Face" in public. so again, i have to take "i play a good guy," at face value.

I truthfully do not fully follow that logic.

again, AMH clearly states that his part affects the story. saying, "i play Riddler/Enigma" in no way gives up the story. just as announcing Ledger as Joker doesn't give away the story or the story's suspense.

But it does give up that the character is in the movie, which is clearly a secret WB is trying to keep. AMH's character is a mystery anyway you cut it - the only reason to keep it a mystery is if it has a major payoff for fans.

[Bandyt]

Originally Posted by StorminNorman

Yes, I love the real out of left field casting

like Christian Bale playing a character with a double life...

Liam Neeson playing a mentor...

Michael Caine playing a wise badass british guy...

LOL! Then again, who wouldn't cast Michael Caine?

[Matchbox]

Originally Posted by StorminNorman

Yes, I love the real out of left field casting

like Christian Bale playing a character with a double life...

Liam Neeson playing a mentor...

Michael Caine playing a wise badass british guy...

*Sarcasm-o-meter explodes* Oh, man. Not again...

-Matchbox

[Matchbox]

Originally Posted by That-Guy

Very true. I guess I just have to take into account that I can't recall ever hearing Ledger do an American accent before, so I really have no idea what it will sound like. But if that is his voice in the trailer (which in all likeliness it is), it sounds good to me. He sounds deranged and sadistic... which is exaclty how the Joker should be. But yeah, that voice did sound like AMH to me and I played it for one of my friends and she was CONVINCED it was him. Only time will tell I guess.

I have heard Heath do an american accent before...and...yeah. It sounds NOTHING like his Joker voice--which I didn't expect it would. However, it is fascinating how much it really does sound like Anthony. I don't know. Maybe I'm crazy?

-Matchbox

[Mysterio]

Originally Posted by StorminNorman

The Riddler, in current comics, is technically a good guy.

as i've told someone else, apart from the dark knight strikes again, i haven't picked up a batman comic in about 20 years. riddler being a good guy or a bad guy is immaterial to the fact that announcing the character does not inherently give away the plot. there are only a few characters that i'm aware of that could do that. for example, robing/nightwing (this is just an example, not an indication of likelihood).

Lucius Fox is a comic book character. Also while not necessary for Vernon to be in every single court case, if Vernon was going to be a character warranting screen time through out the film - he would be involved in A court case. All of which have been filmed. Vernon is not a bad guy either, he is simply a pathetic guy.

these are two major assumptions of yours: 1) that all court scenes have been filmed, and 2) he would be involved in a court case. you have no knowledge one way or the other if either are true. these are assumptions, not facts.

I truthfully do not fully follow that logic.

Two-Face hasn't been officially revealed to the public (neither has Scarecrow). revealing that Two-Face is in the film also reveals the plot/suspense at the same time: the scarring and transformation. announcing that AMH is Riddler does not reveal one iota of the plot.

AMH's character is a mystery anyway you cut it - the only reason to keep it a mystery is if it has a major payoff for fans.

or, like AMH says, that his character/part affects the story. to reveal his part would be to ruin the suspense - not the suspense of our wanting to know who he is, but the suspense of the story.

[Keyser Soze]

Originally Posted by StorminNorman

Yes, I love the real out of left field casting

like Christian Bale playing a character with a double life...

Liam Neeson playing a mentor...

Michael Caine playing a wise badass british guy...

At the time he was cast in "Batman Begins", Christian Bale was most famous for his villains, in particular Patrick Bateman from "American Psycho".

Casting Liam Neeson was a deliberate PERVERSION of his classic mentor role, as he turned out to be the villain of the piece.

Michael Caine may be English, but he's far from the Englishman you'd think to cast as Alfred. But he brought a working-class earthiness to the character that made him feel totally different from the Michael Gough/BTAS interpretations.

You were saying?

[Mysterio]

Originally Posted by Keyser Soze

At the time he was cast in "Batman Begins", Christian Bale was most famous for his villains, in particular Patrick Bateman from "American Psycho".

Casting Liam Neeson was a deliberate PERVERSION of his classic mentor role, as he turned out to be the villain of the piece.

Michael Caine may be English, but he's far from the Englishman you'd think to cast as Alfred. But he brought a working-class earthiness to the character that made him feel totally different from the Michael Gough/BTAS interpretations.

You were saying?

all were established actors that were hardly plucked from Sundance indie circles and all stand as direct contradictions to your previous claim.

[Jack_Sparrow789]

Originally Posted by Matchbox

I just listened to the trailer again and...you know what? The Joker does indeed sound a bit like Anthony Micheal Hall. Also, he doesn't sound ANYTHING like Ledger. I know that it isn't uncommon for actors to drastically change their voice, but I do hear a bit of Anthony in the trailer...or maybe my mind's just playing tricks on me.

In either case, I seriously doubt Nolan would play another role-switcheroo game with us--especially when Ledger's Joker performance seeems to be shaping up to be something quite epic.

-Matchbox

I agree. Voice acting is quite an amazing thing though. I mean, look at Bale. Until I knew more about him after seeing BB, I had no idea he was English. BB, The Machinist, American Psycho, and Equilibrium all had me convinced he was 100% American. But then I found out the truth, went back and watched Empire of the Sun (even in his first role he was amazing!), Midsummer Night's Dream, and then saw The Prestige, and you could definitely hear the Welsh in him. I imagine the voice in the trailer is 100% Heath and personally, I doubt that this real Joker theory is even plausible, seeing as how we are hearing nothing but good things about Heath's performance as the Joker. I for one would be furious to be in the theater, watching Heath give an incredible performance as Joker, only to find out he's not the real one and won't be coming back for another movie. This AMH thing is honestly beginning to really piss me off because I'm still concerned about yet another large character having a presence in this movie. Hell, if it were up to me, I'd cut him out completely and leave the film the way it is, without him and without another plot device.

[Keyser Soze]

Originally Posted by Mysterio

all were established actors that were hardly plucked from Sundance indie circles and all stand as direct contradictions to your previous claim.

How so? I never claimed Nolan was casting unknowns (Ledger's far from unknown), my claim was that Nolan was against obvious casting.

[Figs]

Originally Posted by Keyser Soze

How so? I never claimed Nolan was casting unknowns (Ledger's far from unknown), my claim was that Nolan was against obvious casting.

I think what Keser is trying to say as well as what I always thought. Is that the fans are wanting and expecting this actor for this role, and the one he ends up picking is a total shock because it wasn't on anyone's radar originally. Minus Bale because I think a lot of fans wanted him after seeing him in American Psycho.

[Hamill-Joker]

I got it, which villain could possibly a scientist within Wayne Enterprises and have scenes with Lucius Fox other than Edward Nygma?

A young Victor Fries.

Seriously though, I do think he will be Nygma, but the thought of him being Mr. Freeze did spring into mind for a second.

[Keyser Soze]

Originally Posted by FigmanJ

I think what Keser is trying to say as well as what I always thought. Is that the fans are wanting and expecting this actor for this role, and the one he ends up picking is a total shock because it wasn't on anyone's radar originally. Minus Bale because I think a lot of fans wanted him after seeing him in American Psycho.

Yeah, Bale was certainly my choice. And I think the one concession to "obvious casting" we can make is Morgan Freeman as Lucius Fox.

But as for the rest of the cast....for both "Begins" and "The Dark Knight", the parts are often going to people we'd never have thought of, but turn out to be inspired choices. The "Why the hell didn't I think of them!?" factor.

[Keyser Soze]

Originally Posted by Hamill-Joker

I got it, which villain could possibly a scientist within Wayne Enterprises and have scenes with Lucius Fox other than Edward Nygma?

A young Victor Fries.

Nolan really does have balls the size of grapefruits if he's wanting to tackle characters from "Batman & Robin".

[Jack_Sparrow789]

Originally Posted by Keyser Soze

How so? I never claimed Nolan was casting unknowns (Ledger's far from unknown), my claim was that Nolan was against obvious casting.

Very true. Peter Jackson did the same thing with LOTR. John Rhys Davies as Gimli? The man is like 6'5" and about 250lbs. From what I understand, he probably made everyone else on set feel like a dwarf. Granted, alot of the actors in LOTR were unknowns, many were very well known. Ian McKellen, Christopher Lee, John Rhys Davies, Cate Blanchett, Liv Tyler, Sean Astin, Sean Bean, Hugo Weaving, Bernard Hill, etc.

Just because an actor is well known, doesn't make them obvious choices. Johnny Depp as Sweeney Todd was my first choice, but not what alot of my fellow musical theater people wanted or expected. It didnt suprise as much because Tim Burton was directing it. Depp, from a theatre standpoint, is extremely left field despite his god-like status as an actor. He's never sung in a movie before. No one was expecting someone who's never sung in a film or theatre to be cast in the role that requires the actor to learn and perform the most complex operetta ever written behind Mozart's Madam Butterfly.

[Keyser Soze]

Originally Posted by Jack_Sparrow789

Very true. Peter Jackson did the same thing with LOTR. John Rhys Davies as Gimli? The man is like 6'5" and about 250lbs. From what I understand, he probably made everyone else on set feel like a dwarf. Granted, alot of the actors in LOTR were unknowns, many were very well known. Ian McKellen, Christopher Lee, John Rhys Davies, Cate Blanchett, Liv Tyler, Sean Astin, Sean Bean, Hugo Weaving, Bernard Hill, etc.

Just because an actor is well known, doesn't make them obvious choices. Johnny Depp as Sweeney Todd was my first choice, but not what alot of my fellow musical theater people wanted or expected. It didnt suprise as much because Tim Burton was directing it. Depp, from a theatre standpoint, is extremely left field despite his god-like status as an actor. He's never sung in a movie before. No one was expecting someone who's never sung in a film or theatre to be cast in the role that requires the actor to learn and perform the most complex operetta ever written behind Mozart's Madam Butterfly.

Off-topic, but Ray Winstone played the best Sweeney Todd I've ever seen...