Multi Universe Discussion

[MGilhuly14]

I'm a big fan of comic books but i'll admit im probably not as die hard as everyone else. This entire multiverse thing has me very puzzled. What as readers do people like about this? The way I see it it just makes everything confusing and give DC the ability to print crap every week and just state that it's from another world. Take Jason Todd, everyone hates that he's back but I've read on other posts that if it comes out that he's from another world and just has the same personality as the original that would be ok. THis just does not make any sense to me. The same can be said with Morrisons Joker and Countdowns Joker. People want it explained as there being two Jokers. With this system there is absolutly nothing that really means anything because it can just be pawned off as something on another earth.

Personally I would prefer one solid continuity and hold DC responsible for keeping it. It makes more sense to me to say events happened before ones already printed instead of saying this is Joker from world B and this is Joker from world purple and they look the same but are different people. I dont know maybe Im alone on this.

[Rivethed]

I think it'll allow writers more freedom to do more creative things and not have to worry as much about continuity.

[Joker]

I've always hated the multiverse for just the reasons you mentioned...but I do like that Jason Todd is back

[MGilhuly14]

I agree, I find Jason Todd coming back to be a great storyline. The fact that it can be written off as something from another world is what aggravates me. Although it may allow for some writing freedom it takes the meaning out of any run done by an author. It makes it so that there almost is no continuity whatsoever because anything can be played off as an elseworld.

I'd like to think of comics having a soap opra like storyline where every week something else happens. That everything is in some way or the other is related. Not there being 5000 different replicas of the same character. My question was meant for those who prefer the multiverse. If you dont like Jason Todd being back thats fine. But why would it be alright if it comes out he's from another earth? I think thats a cornier story than simply him coming back. What is so appealing about a multiverse?

[CConn]

Crisis on Infinite Earths never should've been written, ha!

[Rivethed]

I just care if the story is entertaining or not. Some of my favorite stories are actually elseworld stories like Dark Knight Returns, Red Rain, Bloodstorm, Crimson Mist, Gotham By Gaslight.

[MrZombay]

I personally just don't buy any of the multiverse books.

I focus on the Batman only settings books like Year One, The Man Who Laughs, The Long Halloween, Arkham Asylum, The Killing Joke etc.

[David Rice]

Originally Posted by CConn

Crisis on Infinite Earths never should've been written, ha!

WRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRONG!!!!

[The Empire Ape]

Multiverse was almost a DC trademark. then they wanted to copy M*****

[Joker]

Originally Posted by Rivethed

I just care if the story is entertaining or not. Some of my favorite stories are actually elseworld stories like Dark Knight Returns, Red Rain, Bloodstorm, Crimson Mist, Gotham By Gaslight.

see, that's a totally different thing though...thats not stuff that was originally planned to be in continuity suddenly being "oh no, alternate universe!" which is what I feel the thread maker is complaining about...hell, I dont even mind having totally seperate universes (ie Ultimate and All-Star) but I just dont think stuff that was originally in continuity should be thrown out with the excuse of "oh no, that was on earth 15 where everything is exactly the same except Jason Todd came back" and such...

[CConn]

Originally Posted by gothamcentral

WRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRONG!!!!

No, I'm painfully right.

Okay, originally, sure DC's multiple earth thing was a bit confusing. But, at least, each character had a pretty straightforward continuity. Katar Holl was from Thanagar, Carter Hall was from St. Roch. Simple.

Then COIE happened. And all of those crazy Earths got merged. Suddenly, half of certain characters histories were totally erased (Batman, the Justice League). Other characters had their histories COMPLETELY wiped out (Superman, Wonder Woman). And, worst of all, you had characters who's histories were totally ****ed in general (Hawkman).

All of that revision and confusion was done simply to remove the (really rather simple) idea of there being multiple earths. Even though that in itself seemed like a bad idea, I can understand it as, at least, we now only had one DC earth to deal with, and now one set continuity for everyone.

But then, Infinite Crisis came around - and not only erased tons of continuity AGAIN (Both Superman and Wonder Woman now have no official origin) - but now we're back to have a ton of multiple earths who's continuities and relationships with each other are more confusing and complex than they ever were pre-COIE.

So yeah, what do we have now? What did COIE accomplish? Everything it did and set out to do was totally erased and made worse by Infinite Crisis. And even when you sight some of the good things about the continuity erasing COIE did - like removing the campy Batman stories - Infinite Crisis and the current DC writing staff has brought a good deal of those stories back into the fold.

So yeah, COIE and IC, in the end, were really pointless, and really did nothing but make a confusing universe even more confusing.

[Rivethed]

Originally Posted by The Joker

see, that's a totally different thing though...thats not stuff that was originally planned to be in continuity suddenly being "oh no, alternate universe!" which is what I feel the thread maker is complaining about...hell, I dont even mind having totally seperate universes (ie Ultimate and All-Star) but I just dont think stuff that was originally in continuity should be thrown out with the excuse of "oh no, that was on earth 15 where everything is exactly the same except Jason Todd came back" and such...

Yeah, stuff like which Batman stories are for Earth 1 and Earth 2 and Batman and Superman's kids which were from an alternate earth in Action Comics #391.

[MGilhuly14]

Odds are we're "Counting Down" to yet another crisis... We should probably stop purchasing DC issues because odds are they'll be wiped out anyway..

[Kurosawa]

Originally Posted by CConn

No, I'm painfully right.

Okay, originally, sure DC's multiple earth thing was a bit confusing. But, at least, each character had a pretty straightforward continuity. Katar Holl was from Thanagar, Carter Hall was from St. Roch. Simple.

Then COIE happened. And all of those crazy Earths got merged. Suddenly, half of certain characters histories were totally erased (Batman, the Justice League). Other characters had their histories COMPLETELY wiped out (Superman, Wonder Woman). And, worst of all, you had characters who's histories were totally ****ed in general (Hawkman).

All of that revision and confusion was done simply to remove the (really rather simple) idea of there being multiple earths. Even though that in itself seemed like a bad idea, I can understand it as, at least, we now only had one DC earth to deal with, and now one set continuity for everyone.

But then, Infinite Crisis came around - and not only erased tons of continuity AGAIN (Both Superman and Wonder Woman now have no official origin) - but now we're back to have a ton of multiple earths who's continuities and relationships with each other are more confusing and complex than they ever were pre-COIE.

So yeah, what do we have now? What did COIE accomplish? Everything it did and set out to do was totally erased and made worse by Infinite Crisis. And even when you sight some of the good things about the continuity erasing COIE did - like removing the campy Batman stories - Infinite Crisis and the current DC writing staff has brought a good deal of those stories back into the fold.

So yeah, COIE and IC, in the end, were really pointless, and really did nothing but make a confusing universe even more confusing.

The Pre-Crisis Multiverse was as you said, really really simple to understand. The best moves are often the ones you DON'T make. COIE being a prime example of that.

[David Rice]

Originally Posted by CConn

No, I'm painfully right.

Okay, originally, sure DC's multiple earth thing was a bit confusing. But, at least, each character had a pretty straightforward continuity. Katar Holl was from Thanagar, Carter Hall was from St. Roch. Simple.Then COIE happened. And all of those crazy Earths got merged. Suddenly, half of certain characters histories were totally erased (Batman, the Justice League). Other characters had their histories COMPLETELY wiped out (Superman, Wonder Woman). And, worst of all, you had characters who's histories were totally ****ed in general (Hawkman).

All of that revision and confusion was done simply to remove the (really rather simple) idea of there being multiple earths. Even though that in itself seemed like a bad idea, I can understand it as, at least, we now

only had one DC earth to deal with, and now one set continuity for everyone.

But then, Infinite Crisis came around - and not only erased tons of continuity AGAIN (Both Superman and Wonder Woman now have no official origin) - but now we're back to have a ton of multiple earths who's continuities and relationships with each other are more confusing and complex than they ever were pre-COIE.

So yeah, what do we have now? What did COIE accomplish? Everything it did and set out to do was totally erased and made worse by Infinite Crisis. And even when you sight some of the good things about the continuity erasing COIE did - like removing the campy Batman stories - Infinite Crisis and the current DC writing staff has brought a good deal of those stories back into the fold.

So yeah, COIE and IC, in the end, were really pointless, and really did nothing but make a confusing universe even more confusing.

You have some good points. As far as histories go they made Superman much weaker. The Pre-Crisis Supes would knock the Post-Crisis Superman into another timeline. It also made books more real ( people die, bad things happen to good people) and removed stupid things like Bat-Mite and Batwoman.

Books got much darker and more realistic after COIE, which is good, but if it was done only to change it back a few years later then what's the point?

[CConn]

They didn't need COIE to depower Superman or make books darker and more realistic. They could've just evolved that slowly over time and it would've seemed like a natural progression.

[CConn]

Originally Posted by MGilhuly14

Odds are we're "Counting Down" to yet another crisis... We should probably stop purchasing DC issues because odds are they'll be wiped out anyway..

You're right. Supposedly Countdown will be leading into Final Crisis written by Kurt Busiek.

[Rivethed]

Maybe they'll make another weekly series where they'll blow up each earth each week and you won't have to worry about it anymore

[Joker]

I'm getting so sick of this crisis crap at this point too...once every 50 years seemed fine to me, with infinite crisis...at times, you need to step back and re-think and modernize some things...dc decided to go with the slash and burn route, as opposed to marvels "lets just create a totally seperate new line" route...but then, 20 years later, we get another one, when there werent really all that many problems to be fixed (at least none that couldnt have been done by going "hey, not in continuity anymore!")...but now, a year after the last one??? at this rate, DC is going to be having a crisis every other f**king day