New Joe Fridays: WEEK 100!

[Darthphere]

Originally Posted by photojones2

Just because Joe isn't alone on this doesn't make it right.

The MPAA is a joke anyway. Have you seen This Film Is Not Yet Rated? Throwing yourself in the MPAA is only going to take away what little credibilty you have to begin with.

My point is that to ban smoking is to presume that it's this horrible thing, and that kids aren't going to start smoking if it's not in a comic book. That's insane logic. If you don't want kids to smoke then all you can do is talk to them and tell them what they already know: Smoking is bad.

But, like I said, if Joe wants to make this his own personal crusade, then let him. He's suffered a terrible loss, and it probably makes him feel better.

Dude, I love how you always make these wild an inaccurate assumptions. I never said that because the MPAA is doing it that makes Joey Q right. I freaking started off the sentence saying I was just throwing it out there for kicks. Honestly man.

I agree with you and Dread, I am the one who started this thread: Soapbox rant: Marvel/Joey Q and Smoking- The Horror!. So it's not like I'm trying to stand up for the guy or anything. I just came to realize that the moment I start hating comics and becoming bitter because I can't see Dum Dum Dugan light one up, is probably the moment that I should go get my .45 and put myself out like Old Yeller.

[PhotoJones]

Originally Posted by Darthphere

Dude, I love how you always make these wild an inaccurate assumptions. I never said that because the MPAA is doing it that makes Joey Q right. I freaking started off the sentence saying I was just throwing it out there for kicks. Honestly man.

I agree with you and Dread, I am the one who started this thread: Soapbox rant: Marvel/Joey Q and Smoking- The Horror!. So it's not like I'm trying to stand up for the guy or anything. I just came to realize that the moment I start hating comics and becoming bitter because I can't see Dum Dum Dugan light one up, is probably the moment that I should go get my .45 and put myself out like Old Yeller.

"Wildly inaccurate assumptions"?

If you don't state what you're trying to get across, you leave us to decide for ourselves what you meant to say.

And I certainly agree with you, that if this smoking ban makes our enjoyment in reading them lessened, then we don't need to be reading comics to begin with. It really is barely noticeable, and if you didn't know of a ban, you wouldn't notice Logan's not chomping a cigar in a particular scene.

Anyway, I gotta run for now. I have to be in Toledo in 3 hours.

[Darthphere]

Originally Posted by photojones2

"Wildly inaccurate assumptions"?

If you don't state what you're trying to get across, you leave us to decide for ourselves what you meant to say.

AKA make an assumption that usually turns out to be wrong.

I accept your apology.

[yenaled]

All that annoys me about the smoking thing is "we ban smoking because it will encourage kids to smoke" yet at the same breath "violence in comics (et al) doesn't make people violent".

You can't have it both ways.

[Eros]

Originally Posted by yenaled

All that annoys me about the smoking thing is "we ban smoking because it will encourage kids to smoke" yet at the same breath "violence in comics (et al) doesn't make people violent".

You can't have it both ways.

you can't compare smokeing to violence, smoking is a dangerous past time, a hobby if you will. Violence envolves physical harm towards another human being or beings, I don't see how you can compare them. Common sense would tell the common man, beating up another person is wrong and will get you in prison, but putting a cig in your mouth is "cool", because unlike mass slaughter, smoking won't get you life in prison or immediate death. Hell most people who smoke live long and healthy lives, I can't say the same for people who commit violent acts.

[gildea]

Originally Posted by photojones2

My point is that to ban smoking is to presume that it's this horrible thing, and that kids aren't going to start smoking if it's not in a comic book. That's insane logic.

Yes I'm sure Joe Q believes now that marvel has stopped featuring characters smoking that kids haven't taken up the habit since then.

The only insane logic here is you attributing that position to Joe Q with no actual basis for it other than it helps your argument

Originally Posted by photojones2

If you don't want kids to smoke then all you can do is talk to them and tell them what they already know: Smoking is bad.

Smoking is bad?

Damn if only i'd known that years ago!!!

I don't really think that approach has worked too well over the past few years to be honest.

[gildea]

Originally Posted by yenaled

All that annoys me about the smoking thing is "we ban smoking because it will encourage kids to smoke" yet at the same breath "violence in comics (et al) doesn't make people violent".

You can't have it both ways.

It's easier (and legal) to smoke though than commit an act of violence on a person. Plus in comics the afects of violence are occaisionally well explored, which rarely happens with smoking

Regardless if that's your issue shouldn't you be saying "congrats you've banned smoking--- now ban violence!!" rather than "you allow violence---so you shouldn't have banned smoking"??

This entire style of debate where a positive step is actually criticised because of a weakness in another area is really saddening. Is the internet really SO cynical that we can only view postive steps with an eye to using them as a basis for criticism????

[LouFerignoDemon]

Originally Posted by FadingCB

True, and it's not that I can't understand that some ppl would be offended, it's just that I can't understand it being a huge event worthy of being on 3 different news stations and so much outrage.

No one complained like this for the White Queen statues which probably were sold the exact same way, and Frost is packing some cleavage.

Mainly due to her being a whore, dressing like a whore all the time. Otherwise, it wouldn't make sense to put her in a bust that was her wearing a raincoat.

[Max Shrek]

IMO when it comes to smoking in comics, I don't think most of the heroes should be smoking. I don't wanna see Spider-Man light up a hoagie, because that DOES give the kids bad examples. Smoking does kill many, many, many people and many people I know. However, I don't see the problem in letting a villain, or the Punisher, someone who routinely kills dozens of human beings, smoke... I don't see the problem there. If they're pushing the Punisher to be a role model, they're already doing something wrong. Also, if Joey Q is this serious about smoking being dangerous, he should do the same with alcohol. As much as I enjoy AXM's beer gags, he should make it universal. Drinking is just as dangerous as smoking and while ideally, neither would be banned in this extent, I think Joey Q is a bit of a hypocrite for saying Wolverine shouldn't support the kiddies getting lung cancer, but liver cancer is a-ok.

[Max Shrek]

Originally Posted by Mistress Gluon

Mainly due to her being a whore, dressing like a whore all the time. Otherwise, it wouldn't make sense to put her in a bust that was her wearing a raincoat.

Wow, what a horribly misogynist statement. Another example of men craving for women in comics to dress skimpy and then call them whores and ho's after the publishers abide... And Joey Q has no idea why that cover sells...

[LouFerignoDemon]

You sure you don't want to review that there, Max Shrek, or should I just go ahead and respond?

Twenty minutes, then I have a feeling I can't override the wait with the giddyness of responding.

[BrianWilly]

Quesada never fails to astound me with his fakeness and hypocrisy.

[LouFerignoDemon]

Oh, I really COULDN'T hold it back any longer!! 20 minutes just wasn't long enough. x.x

Originally Posted by Max Shrek

Wow, what a horribly misogynist statement. Another example of men craving for women in comics to dress skimpy and then call them whores and ho's after the publishers abide... And Joey Q has no idea why that cover sells...

This is, my fellow poster, what we call ignorance.

See, a few things.

One, I'm not a man, made most obvious by "Mistress", and the several hundred, possibly thousand posts referring to me as a "she" by me and other posters.

Two, maybe instead of saying something what I like to call "a claim with zero substance", or an "empty claim" such as this one, you'd like to back it up a little somehow. I don't know...evidence or something pertaining to me hating my own gender?

And THIRD, Emma Frost has always dressed that way sans Generation X. So GUESS, (just a little one) how she would most LIKELY be portrayed, seeing how she's probably not all that famous for her Gen X days, and much more famous for pretty much everything else.


Oh, and four, and this one I like. Pull your head out of the sand, and notice how nobody complained about Emma dressing like that, but people had problems with MJ being portrayed that way, seeing how the characterization for MJ was pretty much anything BUT that for the most part. Extremely blatant and unfounded posts such as yours PLAGUE the board, so please, refrain from it. I hate it, I'm sure you hate it, I'm sure EVERYBODY hates it. Except maybe Leaguer or Dodge, who like to respond to it. Oui?

Just a few pointers.

[Red]

You know, I really did enjoy the MarvelTV segment. Is it wrong that I laughed at Bru's t-shirt?

[Max Shrek]

Originally Posted by Mistress Gluon

Oh, I really COULDN'T hold it back any longer!! 20 minutes just wasn't long enough. x.x



This is, my fellow poster, what we call ignorance.

See, a few things.

One, I'm not a man, made most obvious by "Mistress", and the several hundred, possibly thousand posts referring to me as a "she" by me and other posters.

Two, maybe instead of saying something what I like to call "a claim with zero substance", or an "empty claim" such as this one, you'd like to back it up a little somehow. I don't know...evidence or something pertaining to me hating my own gender?

And THIRD, Emma Frost has always dressed that way sans Generation X. So GUESS, (just a little one) how she would most LIKELY be portrayed, seeing how she's probably not all that famous for her Gen X days, and much more famous for pretty much everything else.


Oh, and four, and this one I like. Pull your head out of the sand, and notice how nobody complained about Emma dressing like that, but people had problems with MJ being portrayed that way, seeing how the characterization for MJ was pretty much anything BUT that for the most part. Extremely blatant and unfounded posts such as yours PLAGUE the board, so please, refrain from it. I hate it, I'm sure you hate it, I'm sure EVERYBODY hates it. Except maybe Leaguer or Dodge, who like to respond to it. Oui?

Just a few pointers.

I apologize for confusing your gender, I just despise the word "whore." For confusing your statement, I truly am sorry.

[Red]

Originally Posted by Dread

Glad to see Joe Q's getting healthy and losing weight, but he still didn't lose his ignorance. The thing that amazes me is that, well, he is doing well for Marvel and Marvel has been doing very well with his leadership. As iloveclones would say, it isn't a fluke. There have been relaunches, and even good events (ANNIHILATION) and some good ideas under his watch. That is what makes his blatent blunders, misconceptions and mishandlings mind-boggling.



Joe Q believes the opposition to his smoking ban is because fanboys just want to hate on him for any ol' reason. While that is indeed true of many, that is not the point. The main point of criticism is that, bluntly and simply, his "ban on smoking because it is bad for kids" seems to be bullocks when his comics and merchandise have no qualms about gorey violence or sexual images. Hollywood is doing the same thing, and it is still stupid there. A film can have decapitations, swearing, and even crude sexual humor, and be rated PG-13. One bare nipple, R. And now, apparently, one cigerette close-up, R. It makes little sense.

Quite frankly, I would rather kids see smoking than see gore. I actually am not so hard-arsed on sexual images because we're bipolar about sex in America anyway (always display it, joke about it, use it to sell stuff, but want a serious discussion on it, and everyone blushes, like a pimp who is suddenly embarassed when his mother brings up her romances).

No, people find the smoking issue silly because it seems hypocritical. Especially since, well, smoking is a legal activity, while violence is not. It may not be healthy, or encouraged, but it is legal. Where does it end? Drinking causes more crimes than smoking, how about we ban scenes in bars or drinks in character's hands? Censorship is a slippery slope, and even our Founding Fathers knew that. Having no qualms about violence or superheroes-as-softcore-porn-actresses-in-poses yet getting righteous about smoking just doesn't gell well. America's morality is out of wack, and this is simply part of the problem.

It's not always just about people disliking you, Mr. Q.



This is another example. MJ is bent over, in full "doggy style" pose, revealing a THONG and shoving he tits out barely enough to cover the nipples (Nippes are R!), and washing the costume. Admittedly, we have seen simular fare in comics quite often, even at DC too. But, I'm not surprised people, especially women, are offended. When was the last time they saw a statue of some male hero, maybe Sentry, wearing low ride jeans so you can just barely not see his package or rear, shirt off, handing a box of chocolates to the audience. That would be a simular equalivent image. But we don't because comics are assumed to be for men by men. As a man I understand this, I wouldn't want to see that imaginary Sentry statue, but I also don't put my head in the sand and wonder why women would be offended. Perhaps it simply shocks the EIC to get reminded that sometimes Marvel enforces all of those ugly stereotypes people have of the comic book medium, one of which is that is it sexist and misogynist. Granted, to be fair, Marvel is usually the offender when it comes to sexualizing heroines; DC does that too, but DC is far more likely to butcher them these days, in vivid detail.

Plus, it was a slow news day.



When some people are confronted with something, they might stammer and admit it. They might lie. But the way Joe Q can cooly come up with complete and utter baloney is sometimes staggering. I envy and yet loathe it. It's the stuff of politicians.

Women can like hentai, or at least know men enough to know they like hentai. Artist Adam Warren sometimes would joke that his bondage artwork always sold better and garnered more attention. Secondly, it is easy to forget about how powerful your heroines are when they are bound, arms overhead to make the breasts more apparent, while moist tentacles menace them. To deny the hentai accusation is the most blatent disregard for the reader's intelligence I have seen in a while. Just admit it. "HEROES FOR HIRE sells like garbage, so we resorted to using sex to sell it. As these are comics, half the time sex is not consensual. Just as my good friend Kevin Smith who uses rape in most of his stories." But instead, he goes with the "What, me worry?" approach.

So, Joe is trying to say that despite not reading manga, and being the EIC of the world's biggest comic company, and having grown up in Queens and been in the biz over a decade, he has no clue what hentai is. Bull. Spit. It wouldn't be the first time someone use such a theme to sell a copy. What about that cover of WW being arrested with her panties halfway up her rear? Just admit it, really.

- and then JMS literally quotes from TEDDY ROOSEVELT to justify SINS PAST. Really, how self-righteous is that? It would be like if I jusified over-analyzing MIGHTY AVENGERS by quoting from The Book of Genesis. It just continues the trend of most A-List writers believing none of their stories are flawed. It is very true that JMS brought ASM up from the Top 60 into the Top 10, but that tale is almost universally panned. Even the suck-ups at WIZARD called for a retcon of it. Get over yourself.

- Joe Q at least gives a reasonable explaination as to why the kids in THE INITIATIVE are fighting The Hulk in WWH by comparing it to 9/11 when everyone's help was allowed. Of course, years later, plenty of those volenteers are dropping dead of illnesses caused by the dust and the city/feds are denying coverage, or at least making it difficult. The lesson is disasters breed collective heroism, but once the dust settles, everyone else forgets you existed.



There it is again. Joe Q has done a lot of things right. Yet this smacks of the conception that Joe's Marvel is a company that can't stick to their guns for anything and where one hand doesn't know what the other was doing. Gravity was meant to become the new Capt. Marvel, but then they decided to revive the real deal, 20+ years after anyone gave a damn about him, in the most boring and dull one-shot written in a year, and then had to cobble together some way to undo the damage done to Gravity by McDuffie playing along. No wonder it seemed pointless in FF in the end. It was. Why can't these guys have a meeting and keep all of their crap in line for a year? These mistakes, blunders, and rewrites happen all the time. Lord knows CIVIL WAR reaked of some last minute rewrites and misconceptions (the pro-SHRA's were supposed to be the heroes, so why overplay your hand and have them appear to be fascists in not only the beginning of the story, but half the major tie-ins?). It's like a boxer who can win 50 matches TKO and yet can't defend himself from an unarmed mugger. When Joe's Marvel does something incredibly well, it boggles the mind to see them utterly mishandle something.

Don't get me wrong, Gravity is more interesting as a street level hero than a cosmic demigod, especially as Nova already is doing that thing. But then why off him just to pretty much have him revived with no change over than the loss of his secret identity? It just seems pointless, and miscommunicated, and poorly planned, which it was. About the only benefit was it kept him out of CW. But it just reaks of many of the pointless deaths in X-Books. Someone dies, there is over-the-top emoting, then they return in some mundane way and it results in a collective shrug. Gravity never should have died in the first place in BEYOND if the plans had changed. Marvel delayed CW books for months on end, the last issue of BEYOND could have been altered to avoid this mess.

All that and not one word about the MarvelTV segment?

[Xofenroht]

1) I see nothing wrong with including smoking in comics or film. If you really want to discourage younger kids from smoking, talk to the parents and the older relatives or other people that kid has to see face to face every day puffing a cigarette or bringing the cigarettes to their parents, etc. On that note, I disagree with Joey Q. If I ever work for Marvel, you better believe if I have a character that smokes he'll smoke. Besides, aren't comics trying to get away from that whole "strictly for the kids" stereotype? Not to mention, two weeks ago, characters were doing lines of coke in "Countdown".

2) I absolutely LOVE the new MJ statuette and wish people would get off this whole "female exploitation" or "objectifying women" kick or whatever it's supposed to be. MJ has often been portrayed in that manner, hell, wasn't she described as the typical "party girl" on more than one occasion? If you really look at what's going on here, EVERYONE is being exploited. That statuette is a turn on to anyone naturally attracted to that image, kick up the fact that it's MJ...Spider-Man's hot wife, you know SPIDER-MAN (a favorite super hero of many, some people TRY to be like him) and you could make the argument that We (people who get turned on by it) are being exploited aswell. I mean, it's not like you see Lois Lane or Jessica Jones or Mary Marvel dressed like that. It's just what kind of character MJ is and some girls/women actually DO dress like that. If you have a problem with it...stop looking.

[Darthphere]

Originally Posted by Xofenroht

1) I see nothing wrong with including smoking in comics or film. If you really want to discourage younger kids from smoking, talk to the parents and the older relatives or other people that kid has to see face to face every day puffing a cigarette or bringing the cigarettes to their parents, etc. On that note, I disagree with Joey Q. If I ever work for Marvel, you better believe if I have a character that smokes he'll smoke. Besides, aren't comics trying to get away from that whole "strictly for the kids" stereotype? Not to mention, two weeks ago, characters were doing lines of coke in "Countdown".

DC also finds it ok to torture a teenage girl with a power drill amongst other things, they also find it ok for Black Adam to rip through another teenage girl's chest and rip her heart out. DC also thinks it's ok for a supervillain to rape a superhero's wife. Lets all be like DC!

And yeah, I'd like to see you take a stand on that one with Joey Q, "He's going to be smoking or I quit!"

[CaptainStacy]

Originally Posted by COMICBOY

I like Joe. Seems like a good guy.

He IS.

[Kevin]

I'm only saying seems because I heard you should never meet your Idols.

[Xofenroht]

Originally Posted by Darthphere

DC also finds it ok to torture a teenage girl with a power drill amongst other things, they also find it ok for Black Adam to rip through another teenage girl's chest and rip her heart out. DC also thinks it's ok for a supervillain to rape a superhero's wife. Lets all be like DC!

And yeah, I'd like to see you take a stand on that one with Joey Q, "He's going to be smoking or I quit!"

It's not to say be like "DC!", but moreover to emphasise why banning smoking from your comics is a pretty extreme measure for this whole "Anti-Smoking Campaign". I like what DC has been doing (if you excuse the multiple Earth's thing, which I try to ignore). Oh...and Black Adam is one of my favorite DC characters, actually he's in the Top 3 between Batman and Green Arrow.

What I'm saying is, banning smoking from the comics is CENSORSHIP! Isn't that why the Comics Code of Authority was abandoned? To avoid things like this?

[Dread]

Originally Posted by Red X

All that and not one word about the MarvelTV segment?

Admittedly, I didn't watch it.

I have no doubt Joe is a "nice", fun guy. In fact I believe he is so much so, that is part of the reason why deadlines have become optional at his camp. He's too "nice" to lower the hammer on someone tardy all the time. I mean just because at times I feel his statements seem hypocritical, or ignorant, or he misjudges the intelligence of the fan community when they call him on something, doesn't mean I believe he is some terrible, horrible person. I'm not that kind of fanatic.

Hopefully, now that the Gravity/Capt. Marvel bungle is over with, Gravity can get back onto the wagon. I wonder if McDuffie will have him continue to show up in FF? I actually wouldn't mind too much if he joined the team or something. I mean, he's cooler than HERBIE.

[LouFerignoDemon]

Originally Posted by Max Shrek

I apologize for confusing your gender, I just despise the word "whore." For confusing your statement, I truly am sorry.

I apologize as well. I overreacted.

[LouFerignoDemon]

Originally Posted by Dread

Admittedly, I didn't watch it.

I have no doubt Joe is a "nice", fun guy. In fact I believe he is so much so, that is part of the reason why deadlines have become optional at his camp. He's too "nice" to lower the hammer on someone tardy all the time. I mean just because at times I feel his statements seem hypocritical, or ignorant, or he misjudges the intelligence of the fan community when they call him on something, doesn't mean I believe he is some terrible, horrible person. I'm not that kind of fanatic.

Hopefully, now that the Gravity/Capt. Marvel bungle is over with, Gravity can get back onto the wagon. I wonder if McDuffie will have him continue to show up in FF? I actually wouldn't mind too much if he joined the team or something. I mean, he's cooler than HERBIE.

I'd actually like to see him in the new New Warriors.

Or at least his reaction to the whole Civil War thing that happened while he was away.

[Dread]

Originally Posted by Mistress Gluon

I'd actually like to see him in the new New Warriors.

Or at least his reaction to the whole Civil War thing that happened while he was away.

That could be interesting, I guess. His secret identity is out and I hope he manages to break his news to his girlfriend. Who hopefully wasn't killed by Brushfire or Black Death while Greg was "dead".