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Old 06-07-2007, 08:05 PM   #26
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Default Re: How can Superman become the icon again?

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Originally Posted by CConn View Post
Argued by retarded people, maybe.

Personally, I'm simply of the opinion Superman just isn't a hero of...well, this age. As...depressing as it may be, people aren't looking for someone to look up to, someone who highlights all the great things about humanity, no, they'd much rather prefer that flawed, ****ed up hero in a mask, than a beacon of light in Superman.
But this Superman was flawed! Granted, he wasn't as f'd up as some of the other heroes but he definitely still had his issues. In fact, this is why some posters and fans weren't that taken with the character in the film(because of the "baggage" and personal issues he had in the film). If anything, he was sort of less the character we usually look up to with no questions asked.

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Old 06-07-2007, 08:20 PM   #27
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Default Re: How can Superman become the icon again?

I think Superman had to redeem himself to the world in Returns, it wasn't necessarily receied well, going that way. I do think that it was about Superman learning a lesson, realizing his place in the world. Again, that approach didn't resonate to a good amount of viewers.

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Old 06-08-2007, 01:02 AM   #28
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Default Re: How can Superman become the icon again?

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Very good point my friend. An Icon doesnt necessarily have to be a positive category. I think the version of Superman featured in Returns wasn't popular with the crowds, but I don't think it diminished the popularity of the symbol. I think the symbol is more popular than the character.
that's how the marketing of SR fail. they thought just showing the \S/ wouls sell the movie...

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Old 06-08-2007, 07:06 AM   #29
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Default Re: How can Superman become the icon again?

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he would be the #1 icon if Smallville was written better and if he had a truly great movie in the last 10 years. sadly smallville never lived up to its potential and Superman Returns was one of the biggest turkies to ever be released.
i've been thinking if the popularity of Smallville is affecting how Superman performs at the movies. i'm thinking if the general public as reached a saturation point with all things Superman related it would make sense that they would look for something new on the big screen since they already get a regular doze of it from TV.

its just a thought.

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Old 06-08-2007, 07:44 AM   #30
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Default Re: How can Superman become the icon again?

I think alot of these theories, Smallville included, are all a piece of the pie.

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Old 06-08-2007, 09:17 AM   #31
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Default Re: How can Superman become the icon again?

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Well, these days there's more kids with Superman T-shirts. I even see adults wearing them from time to time. So Returns helped present and introduce Superman to the younger audiences.
I asked my best mates step son (8) what he thought of Superman Returns.
He didn't like it (I guess he found the action boring). He did however like Batman Begins, X-Men, Spider-man and Fantastic Four.

Personally I thought it was great

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Old 06-08-2007, 09:22 AM   #32
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Default Re: How can Superman become the icon again?

That's part of the problem.

Kids didn't like the movie, and adults did. I showed my adult sister it and she loved it, but Superman ,more than any other hero, is seen as a kid's hero.
It does worry me about the sequel whether people kids will come out in full force after SR set a tone that wasn't kiddy.

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Old 06-08-2007, 12:40 PM   #33
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Default Re: How can Superman become the icon again?

I know how Superman is traditionally perceived, but I thank God SR wasn't that kiddy, no matter the BO.

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Old 06-08-2007, 01:00 PM   #34
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Default Re: How can Superman become the icon again?

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You need a Dolorian, a flux capacitor, and a bolt of lightening.
Once we power this up to 88 mph. You're going to see some serious ****.

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Old 06-08-2007, 01:01 PM   #35
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Default Re: How can Superman become the icon again?

I'd love it if we got a different version this time rather than just donners although i thought music was a good change and that but, i'd like to see a more assertive Clark Kent this time.

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Old 06-08-2007, 01:31 PM   #36
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Default Re: How can Superman become the icon again?

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That's part of the problem.

Kids didn't like the movie, and adults did. I showed my adult sister it and she loved it, but Superman ,more than any other hero, is seen as a kid's hero.
It does worry me about the sequel whether people kids will come out in full force after SR set a tone that wasn't kiddy.
Your Adult Sister liked it because SR was a chick flick, and not a real Superman movie... She is in a short list because even chicks mostly didn't like SR.

One of the many many issues I have with the movie is that it's a F'IN Chick flick!

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Old 06-08-2007, 06:29 PM   #37
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Default Re: How can Superman become the icon again?

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Your Adult Sister liked it because SR was a chick flick, and not a real Superman movie... She is in a short list because even chicks mostly didn't like SR.

One of the many many issues I have with the movie is that it's a F'IN Chick flick!
He seems to have lost the guys. Its why I think he needs to get edgier and not be so boy scout.

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Old 06-08-2007, 07:01 PM   #38
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Default Re: How can Superman become the icon again?

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Your Adult Sister liked it because SR was a chick flick, and not a real Superman movie... She is in a short list because even chicks mostly didn't like SR.

One of the many many issues I have with the movie is that it's a F'IN Chick flick!
Casablanca is a chic flick for that matter and no one flies there so big meh.

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Old 06-09-2007, 12:02 AM   #39
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Default Re: How can Superman become the icon again?

3 elements to make the movie a huge hit; exciting, touching and inspiring. unfortunately SR has none of these but just the superman name...

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Old 06-09-2007, 03:44 AM   #40
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Default Re: How can Superman become the icon again?

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3 elements to make the movie a huge hit; exciting, touching and inspiring. unfortunately SR has none of these but just the superman name...
to be fair SR does have some level of excitement and touching scenes, but there is hardly anything about it that would make you feel inspired.

which is why i think it didnt have any legs at the box office. this is Superman. despite being heckled as the Big Blue Boyscout, people still look to him for inspiration. they got none of that in this movie.

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Old 06-09-2007, 04:05 AM   #41
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Default Re: How can Superman become the icon again?

Brighten the look of the film, less orange. Bring back the classic suit and amazing aerial flight sequences, not like the left and right and up and down shots we got in SR. Get writers that know the mythology of Superman! Hire ILM to do the effects!!!

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Old 06-09-2007, 09:24 AM   #42
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Default Re: How can Superman become the icon again?

Great supervillians that can possibly kick Superman's ass.

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Old 06-09-2007, 09:27 AM   #43
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Default Re: How can Superman become the icon again?

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Brighten the look of the film, less orange. Bring back the classic suit and amazing aerial flight sequences, not like the left and right and up and down shots we got in SR. Get writers that know the mythology of Superman! Hire ILM to do the effects!!!
I defenitely agree with the last part.

If we are going to get 2 supervillians for the next film I hope they hire ILM to do the effects.

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Old 06-09-2007, 09:33 AM   #44
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Default Re: How can Superman become the icon again?

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Bruce timm's movie needs to come out. that's all.
hmmm. I agree

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Old 06-09-2007, 02:39 PM   #45
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Default Re: How can Superman become the icon again?

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But this Superman was flawed! Granted, he wasn't as f'd up as some of the other heroes but he definitely still had his issues. In fact, this is why some posters and fans weren't that taken with the character in the film(because of the "baggage" and personal issues he had in the film). If anything, he was sort of less the character we usually look up to with no questions asked.
While he was flawed, he wasn't the kind of flawed audiences like. Giving someone an illigitiment child and *****y ex doesn't make them flawed in a good way. It makes them flawed in a dead beat dad sort of way.

Look at Jack Bauer, he is a popular flawed hero. His flaw? He gave up everything, his wife, his friends, his relationship with his daughter for the good of his country. There is a sense of honor and nobility in that. Furthermore, the fact that he has to choose between a life and his country makes him all the more conflicted and heroic. Superman on the other hand, had his cake and ate it to. The movie implies he was in some form of relationship with Lois, people loved him, etc. But he gave up his girl and his son but not for a heroic reason...he did it out of pure selfishness. Because he wanted to see if a planet that was destroyed is still there? Sure, it ****ed up his life, but he brought it on himself. Why should we as an auidence care if he has to deal with the consequences of his selfish actions?

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Old 06-09-2007, 02:45 PM   #46
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Default Re: How can Superman become the icon again?

flawed heros are getting old; lok at spidey y3 and every othjer comic book film aside batman. what puts butts in the seats isnt flawed heros ists superhuman fights!

if the trailer showed matrix-sized fights between supey n some hoe and showed some romance instead of *****ing the film woulda done way more money. but they didnt so it didnt.

from a marketing and box office perspective; its a pity they didnt make j abrams script.

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Old 06-09-2007, 03:28 PM   #47
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Default Re: How can Superman become the icon again?

Excuse me while I touch this off, but.. is a "flawed" superman such a bad thing? Isn't this why he spends his formative years in the Fortress gleaming Wisdom from his father, and the counsel of the Kryptonian Elders? Because they knew that he would need guidance? Wasn't it established that Superman could and would make mistakes?

He made them in STM, when he chose to keep a promise to Miss Tessmacher instead of flying directly to California to intervene Lois' death..only to turn back time. Wasn't he specifically instructed not to interfere? Didn't he interfere regardless?

Howabout in Superman II? He gives up his powers to become mortal... yes, that is the first obvious mistake. Howabout his tactical miscalculation thinking that he could somehow outmaneuver and subdue three equally powered Kryptonians within Metropolis city limits... (shouldn't the correct strategic maneuver have been to fly off directly to a remote location and engage them there?)..

Superman 4..thinking he can impose his will and save the human race from itself?....

And yet now in Returns, when he returns to earth, and out of curiosity he chooses to drop in and see how the love of his life is doing with her new family...some of these "fans" bash him for being a *stalker**.... now all of a sudden he's flawed? He's somehow out of character? I think Superman has always made questionable decisions, and has always had character flaws. Its OK. I like him better that way. Makes him more interesting. Remember, he grew up as a human, he learned all about Jealousy. He learned about longing for acceptance as a child. He's not supposed to be perfect in every action and thought.

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Old 06-09-2007, 03:49 PM   #48
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Th Mad Re: How can Superman become the icon again?

Superhuman fights are a MUST! It's SUPERMAN dammit!

I still don't get why they rejected JJ Abrams ideas only for money reasons if other movies proved to show big aerial fights and great visuals with less or equal money!?

Also, going by their track record, WB are just the wrong studio to make a DC hero movie, period! No wonder the other DC heroes get no movies when Bats and Supes are still finding their right course on the big screen. Granted "Batman Begins" is a great movie, but did they really need 4 trials to get there? Superman already had 4 silly kiddy films, now another one was added. That's just embarrassing! There's so many talent out there that dreams to get their hands on such a project and WB goes with the one who has the least idea of the character?

WB! YOU SUCK!

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Old 06-09-2007, 04:04 PM   #49
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Default Re: How can Superman become the icon again?

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I know how Superman is traditionally perceived, but I thank God SR wasn't that kiddy, no matter the BO.
Wasn't that kiddie?! SR Lex was a slightly more threatening version of Super Friends Lex Luthor! They both were cartoony villains that created really stupid schemes that would have destroyed the world and had no personality beyond being evil.

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Old 06-09-2007, 04:07 PM   #50
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Default Re: How can Superman become the icon again?

I think Spacey did very well with the character that was written for him. I thought Lex was miles ahead of Hackman.

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