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Old 06-09-2007, 04:13 PM   #51
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Default Re: How can Superman become the icon again?

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Superhuman fights are a MUST! It's SUPERMAN dammit!

I still don't get why they rejected JJ Abrams ideas only for money reasons if other movies proved to show big aerial fights and great visuals with less or equal money!?

Also, going by their track record, WB are just the wrong studio to make a DC hero movie, period! No wonder the other DC heroes get no movies when Bats and Supes are still finding their right course on the big screen. Granted "Batman Begins" is a great movie, but did they really need 4 trials to get there? Superman already had 4 silly kiddy films, now another one was added. That's just embarrassing! There's so many talent out there that dreams to get their hands on such a project and WB goes with the one who has the least idea of the character?


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The JJ script was ripped apart at first by Harry Knowles. The revision was said to bet a lot better. I don't know. It sounds like it might have been a more exciting movie but there was weird stuff in the original. I don't know about later drafts. WB will get the Singer script late in the year. They probably will go over it with a fine tooth comb and weigh the money they can spend on it. Harris and Dougherty need to make it great. WB probably won't commit money unless it blows them away.

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Old 06-09-2007, 05:31 PM   #52
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Default Re: How can Superman become the icon again?

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Wasn't that kiddie?! SR Lex was a slightly more threatening version of Super Friends Lex Luthor! They both were cartoony villains that created really stupid schemes that would have destroyed the world and had no personality beyond being evil.
I agree woith Spacey's Lex. It was built after Gene Hackman's Lex and that worked for a 70's blockbuster. I didn't like it too much.

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Old 06-09-2007, 05:36 PM   #53
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Default Re: How can Superman become the icon again?

I thought Spacey did the best he could with what he was given, I felt that his Lex was much more sadistic than Hackman's.

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Old 06-09-2007, 07:07 PM   #54
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Default Re: How can Superman become the icon again?

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I thought Spacey did the best he could with what he was given, I felt that his Lex was much more sadistic than Hackman's.
I wouldn't say that. Consider the times. Spacey's Lex may have been more outwardly cruel, but in the 70s, killing a law enforcement agent, especially an FBI agent as Lex did was a big deal. For his time, Hackman's Lex was fairly evil. I think the problem with Spacey's Lex is...while he may be more outwardly evil, he is essentially the same character he was in the 70s...and that really doesn't work anymore. I mean, not even James Bond would fight a villian with such a goofy scheme anymore.

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Old 06-09-2007, 07:35 PM   #55
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I agree woith Spacey's Lex. It was built after Gene Hackman's Lex and that worked for a 70's blockbuster. I didn't like it too much.

SM-I was made in 78, before Post crisis Lex existed, SR was made in 2006 20 years after Post crisis Lex was created, Hackman Lex was fine for his time, but has become completely dated now. If the movie makers were smart they would have used an updated version of Lex, not recyled the one from 78. A weak villain sucks the engry right out of a story and sR had a weak villain.

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I think Spacey did very well with the character that was written for him. I thought Lex was miles ahead of Hackman.
And Clancy Brown blows both of those two out of the water. Hackman Lex was a good villain for his time, but he doesn't hold up in modern times. SR Lex a slightly more menacing version of the same villain and thus he appears outdated and lame. Hackman Lex was better because he fit in his time, unlike SR Lex.


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Old 06-09-2007, 09:28 PM   #56
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Fire Singer and bring in someone like Donner who has respect for the character, and will bust his ass to bring the character faithfully to the screen.

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Old 06-09-2007, 09:31 PM   #57
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I thought Spacey did the best he could with what he was given, I felt that his Lex was much more sadistic than Hackman's.
in the original draft for Superman 1, especially Puzo's, if you look for an interview with Donner, he says that Lex was viscious. It was on par with what was in the Godfather. this first thing Donner said is (paraphrasing) "We have to really tame Lex down. parents will be bringing their kids to this, and dropping their kids off on Saturday Matinees (Parent's could do that in the 70's and 80's) and we need to make him more kid friendly." That is why Lex and crew was written the way he was.

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Old 06-09-2007, 09:32 PM   #58
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That's part of the problem.

Kids didn't like the movie, and adults did. I showed my adult sister it and she loved it, but Superman ,more than any other hero, is seen as a kid's hero.
It does worry me about the sequel whether people kids will come out in full force after SR set a tone that wasn't kiddy.
many adults hated it.

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Old 06-09-2007, 09:34 PM   #59
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Casablanca is a chic flick for that matter and no one flies there so big meh.
It was a chick flick that did not connect with chicks.

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Old 06-09-2007, 09:40 PM   #60
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Default Re: How can Superman become the icon again?

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in the original draft for Superman 1, especially Puzo's, if you look for an interview with Donner, he says that Lex was viscious. It was on par with what was in the Godfather. this first thing Donner said is (paraphrasing) "We have to really tame Lex down. parents will be bringing their kids to this, and dropping their kids off on Saturday Matinees (Parent's could do that in the 70's and 80's) and we need to make him more kid friendly." That is why Lex and crew was written the way he was.
That, and because the guys writing the script SUCK!

Giving him the worst Villain scheme EVER in a Super hero movie!!!!

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Old 06-09-2007, 09:45 PM   #61
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That, and because the guys writing the script SUCK!

Giving him the worst Villain scheme EVER in a Super hero movie!!!!
Are you talking the writers of Superman the movie, or SR writers? SR write's sucked. Superman the moives writter's wanted to have a nuclear missle hitting and causing an earthquake in California. They wanted a huge ending. Sad that a 30 year old movie had such a huge final then a current one.

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Old 06-09-2007, 11:53 PM   #62
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Default Re: How can Superman become the icon again?

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in the original draft for Superman 1, especially Puzo's, if you look for an interview with Donner, he says that Lex was viscious. It was on par with what was in the Godfather. this first thing Donner said is (paraphrasing) "We have to really tame Lex down. parents will be bringing their kids to this, and dropping their kids off on Saturday Matinees (Parent's could do that in the 70's and 80's) and we need to make him more kid friendly." That is why Lex and crew was written the way he was.
I know the whole interview, but it doesn't matter. The Lex on screen in Returns was more sadisitc than the Lex in STM. Superman Returns was supposed to have Superman lifting a chain of train cars as a flood tears through Metropolis, that didn't happen, so we can't make fun of Superman for only lifting things.

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Old 06-10-2007, 12:50 AM   #63
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Default Re: How can Superman become the icon again?

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That, and because the guys writing the script SUCK!

Giving him the worst Villain scheme EVER in a Super hero movie!!!!
Yes because in "Spider-Man" having the villain try to recruit Spidey just 'cos he had superpowers was a good idea. Then there's "Spider-Man 2" with I must recreate a failed experiment that could blow up the city scheme. In "Batman Begins" must use a weapon that can vaporise water near humans though it magically doesn't affect them when it should. I could go on but won't. By the way I like those films I mentioned though not as much as Superman nor "Superman Returns". I guess I have different standards to comic films in that I don't expect the villains to have mundane schemes that are completely logical or feasable in the real world. Because it's a comic book film.

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Old 06-10-2007, 12:56 AM   #64
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Default Re: How can Superman become the icon again?

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hmmm. I agree
Wow, thanks. Great minds think alike.

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Old 06-10-2007, 01:23 AM   #65
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Default Re: How can Superman become the icon again?

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I know the whole interview, but it doesn't matter. The Lex on screen in Returns was more sadisitc than the Lex in STM. Superman Returns was supposed to have Superman lifting a chain of train cars as a flood tears through Metropolis, that didn't happen, so we can't make fun of Superman for only lifting things.

that was my problem with returns Lex, and Lex from the old movies, his purpose for being who he is never alluded to. He just came off as a generic evil villian most of the time, with to many campy moments. I would say returns Lex is the worst version of the character, the smallvile version of the chaarcter is vastly superior.

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Old 06-10-2007, 04:38 AM   #66
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Fire Singer and bring in someone like Donner who has respect for the character, and will bust his ass to bring the character faithfully to the screen.
yap. fire him. he just isn't right.

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Old 06-10-2007, 04:52 AM   #67
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Default Re: How can Superman become the icon again?

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Fire Singer and bring in someone like Donner who has respect for the character, and will bust his ass to bring the character faithfully to the screen.
If this isn't the most ironic thing ever posted on a Superman message board....

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Old 06-10-2007, 07:01 AM   #68
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Default Re: How can Superman become the icon again?

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I asked my best mates step son (8) what he thought of Superman Returns.
He didn't like it (I guess he found the action boring). He did however like Batman Begins, X-Men, Spider-man and Fantastic Four.

Personally I thought it was great
My three year old cousin likes it, I guess. The pane scene and the NKI climax is one of the only ways I can get him to sit still. Shrek is the only other one I can think of right now.

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Old 06-10-2007, 09:45 AM   #69
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Default Re: How can Superman become the icon again?

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It was a chick flick that did not connect with chicks.
Which movie are you talking about?
Casablanca? Big deal, it's still great.
SR? Big deal, it's never been a chic flick to start with.

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Are you talking the writers of Superman the movie, or SR writers? SR write's sucked. Superman the moives writter's wanted to have a nuclear missle hitting and causing an earthquake in California. They wanted a huge ending. Sad that a 30 year old movie had such a huge final then a current one.
Didn't we have an earthquake in SR too? And the big finale in STM was an animation of Superman surrounding the Earth; not the biggest rollercoaster-like action sequence for a finale ever created. But then again, considering Lois was dead and Supes was trying to save her gives you the emotional side more than the expensive effects one. Just like in SR.

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Old 06-10-2007, 12:57 PM   #70
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Default Re: How can Superman become the icon again?

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that was my problem with returns Lex, and Lex from the old movies, his purpose for being who he is never alluded to. He just came off as a generic evil villian most of the time, with to many campy moments. I would say returns Lex is the worst version of the character, the smallvile version of the chaarcter is vastly superior.
Well the reason he is sadistic in Returns is because he blames Superman for his 5 year jail term and is attempting to enact revenge. In regards to the real estate scheme, money and land I guess, although that is played out.

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Old 06-10-2007, 01:01 PM   #71
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Default Re: How can Superman become the icon again?

He also has access to the most advanced technology on the planet as he explained to Kitty about the most powerful civilisations.

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Old 06-10-2007, 01:03 PM   #72
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Default Re: How can Superman become the icon again?

I didn't think Lex was portrayed that badly through dialogue and mannerisms, I think his scheme should have been amped up of course.

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Old 06-10-2007, 01:09 PM   #73
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He also has access to the most advanced technology on the planet as he explained to Kitty about the most powerful civilisations.

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And that's the best scheme he could come with?! He could have sold the tech and become a billionaire or made a warship to take over the world and the best he could make up with a bad real estate scam. This version of Lex is retarded.

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Old 06-10-2007, 01:17 PM   #74
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He could make weapons later? 'Cos he implied he would. I guess destroying North America is nothing nor the damage to the other 3 continents.

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Old 06-10-2007, 01:27 PM   #75
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He could make weapons later? 'Cos he implied he would. I guess destroying North America is nothing nor the damage to the other 3 continents.

Angeloz
But the plan doesn't make sense. What good is having land if you wipe out your biggest market and in effect destroy the world's economy? He said at numerous points that he wanted to sell the land to the highest bidder, but with what? If he wipes out America he wipes out the economy. And isn't it a bit naive to think people will buy land on a rock that looks like it will be uninhabitable for the next 50 thousand years from the guy who destroyed America?

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