The SuperHeroHype Forums  

Go Back   The SuperHeroHype Forums > Superman > Man of Steel

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 06-10-2007, 10:28 PM   #101
Eros
Side-Kick
 
Eros's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 7,489
Default Re: How can Superman become the icon again?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ThanosOfTitans View Post
The Lex in Superman Returns is supposed to have the intelligence and resourcefulness to achieve God like status, yet the best scheme he can muster to amass wealth is to marry an old bag of bones? Yeah, that's overwhelmingly more savvy and intelligent than establishing major professional and financial ties with corporate, scientific and political leaders to support a mega corporation that develops advanced defense technologies.
well to be fair, Lex just spent years in prison for attempted Genocide, it would of been hard to start a billion dollar world wide corporation.

__________________
"All superheroes are essentially criminals who capture other supercriminals in vigilante-style justice and engage in wanton destruction of public property during superpowered fights".
Eros is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-11-2007, 12:22 AM   #102
Matt
We Are Hunter Rider!
SHH! Global Moderator
 
Matt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Camp Manuel
Posts: 76,132
Default Re: How can Superman become the icon again?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steelsheen View Post
the Chinese could buy into it. also them folks at the Middle East

you are aware that America isnt the only country in the world right?
The economies you speak of are still dependant on the dollar and the United States economy. If the US economy sinks, so does the world economy. China, most third world countries, Europe...they all lose their biggest source of exporting income. Millions lose their jobs as a result. Their economies crash in a way that makes the Great Depression look like a stock market boom. You can try to justify plot holes all you want, but you aren't succeeding.

Matt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-11-2007, 12:38 AM   #103
Armand Z Trip
Recalcitrant
 
Armand Z Trip's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Wong's Lost and Found Emporium
Posts: 2,199
Default Re: How can Superman become the icon again?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Showtime029 View Post
I don't think this movie made Superman any less of an icon in regards to pop culture. Superman was everywhere, and because of Returns Superman is anywhere and everywhere. It's still cool to display the Superman logo on shirts or other areas, the movie didn't diminsh this, it only enhanced this. So despite the only solid performance of the movie, not great. Superman is still an icon.
Is this logo on a shirt, or would you say other areas?



Sorry. Totally agree with the above statement.

__________________
Nothing contributes so much to tranquilizing the mind as a steady purpose - a point on which the soul may fix its intellectual eye.
Armand Z Trip is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-11-2007, 12:45 AM   #104
Showtime
Your Friend In Time
SHH! Global Moderator
 
Showtime's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Hill Valley
Posts: 41,449
Default Re: How can Superman become the icon again?

Wowzers.

__________________

Showtime is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-11-2007, 08:39 AM   #105
The Overlord
Side-Kick
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Posts: 7,407
Default Re: How can Superman become the icon again?

Quote:
Originally Posted by El Payaso View Post
I think if he's starting from scratch, the fastest way is the old lady. Faster than having to win the trust of so many wealthy people with his resumee.
Yes, but it is so crass, it seems like something that should be beneath Luthor. Lex should have more self respect than that. Any common con man could swindle old ladies out of their money, but creating a corporation, that takes true intelligence. Lex should be anything but common.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eros View Post
well to be fair, Lex just spent years in prison for attempted Genocide, it would of been hard to start a billion dollar world wide corporation.
If he offer to provide the world with tech that could cure cancer, he may been forgiven for his past sins. That would have been more clever than the scheme we got in SR.

The Overlord is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 06-11-2007, 08:44 AM   #106
ThanosOfTitans
The Mad Titan
 
ThanosOfTitans's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 438
Default Re: How can Superman become the icon again?

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Overlord View Post
Yes, but it is so crass, it seems like something that should be beneath Luthor. Lex should have more self respect than that. Any common con man could swindle old ladies out of their money, but creating a corporation, that takes true intelligence. Lex should be anything but common.
yes, i can see your point as well. very good point too. lex is an arrogant and prideful man. such acts do seem beneath the traditional comic book lex, but movie-verse lex is campy and deviates a bit from comic-verse lex, so sleeping with old ladies is probably right on par with his goals, but now that he has the money...it's time for his standards to rise and establish the greatness that is lexcorp. the good thing about sr's lex is that he wasn't absurdly campy and his character can still be salvaged! oh yes, there is hope.

ThanosOfTitans is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-11-2007, 08:58 AM   #107
Angeloz
Side-Kick
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Planet Earth
Posts: 2,960
Default Re: How can Superman become the icon again?

What has Lex got to do with Superman being an icon?

Angeloz

Angeloz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-11-2007, 10:30 AM   #108
ThanosOfTitans
The Mad Titan
 
ThanosOfTitans's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 438
Default Re: How can Superman become the icon again?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Angeloz View Post
What has Lex got to do with Superman being an icon?

Angeloz
iconic superheroes usually have iconic villains. batman has the joker. the x-men have magneto. the fantastic four have doom. the savage dragon had overlord. spiderman had doctor octopus (though some fans would prefer carnage or venom). skywalker had vader. he-man has skeletor. the teenage mutant ninja turtles have shredder and crane (if you old school) i think you get the point. great heroes and great villains go hand and hand. especially considering lex tends to pop up in every superman movie....i think his character deserves a bit more attention. i could go on and on...


but aside from that, is this the first topic you've posted in where the topic has deviated a bit from the original? just a little curious

ThanosOfTitans is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-11-2007, 10:44 AM   #109
Angeloz
Side-Kick
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Planet Earth
Posts: 2,960
Default Re: How can Superman become the icon again?

No I just thought I'd bring it up as a question. 'Cos I can like deviations. Though I must admit I'm not that attatched to Lexcorp especially in a film. It's more for a serial storyline where he has to hide his evil side so as not get arrested all the time. I don't mind open and honest criminality in Lex. That said I don't object to Lexcorp in serial form either. I'm flexible on the issue and not one way or nothing about it. Oh well.

Angeloz

Angeloz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-11-2007, 10:52 AM   #110
ThanosOfTitans
The Mad Titan
 
ThanosOfTitans's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 438
Default Re: How can Superman become the icon again?

i can understand that. i just think comic-verse lex's corporate, political and scientific influence is the difference between common criminal and debonair elite villain. i mean, lex doesn't really have any superhuman powers....but there are other forms of power. < = ) and i think it's smart that lex can be behind all of these fiendishly evil plots...and the public still loves him and embraces him.

ThanosOfTitans is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-11-2007, 10:58 AM   #111
Angeloz
Side-Kick
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Planet Earth
Posts: 2,960
Default Re: How can Superman become the icon again?

So more reasons to think the public stupid 'cos there's a pair of glasses (at least he's not well known though) and a villain that is thought of as good? Man people on that world.

Angeloz

Angeloz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-11-2007, 11:15 AM   #112
ThanosOfTitans
The Mad Titan
 
ThanosOfTitans's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 438
Default Re: How can Superman become the icon again?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Angeloz View Post
So more reasons to think the public stupid 'cos there's a pair of glasses (at least he's not well known though) and a villain that is thought of as good? Man people on that world.

Angeloz
i've never thought people were stupid for not recognizing clark's disguise. it's just something most comicbook readers have accepted. a pair of glasses is enough to disguise his identity. the superman franchise has lasted quite sometime...i think it's a little late to gripe about the glasses.

and about the second part, that happens in real life everyday. there are many politicians and corporate leaders in good favor with the public who are behind fiendishly evil plots to serve their own self interest. are the people who get screwed stupid? no, because they trust that these "leaders" are looking out for their best interest, but that's what makes them evil. they take advantage of that trust and manipulate it to serve their own needs.

now if you want to talk about the people who voted bush into office a second term...that's something totally different. lol

ThanosOfTitans is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-11-2007, 11:26 AM   #113
Angeloz
Side-Kick
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Planet Earth
Posts: 2,960
Default Re: How can Superman become the icon again?

Don't worry I was just teasing about the glasses. Are there really people that believe in politicians and businessmen? 'Cos that's a shocking thing in the modern world.

Angeloz

Angeloz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-11-2007, 11:33 AM   #114
ThanosOfTitans
The Mad Titan
 
ThanosOfTitans's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 438
Default Re: How can Superman become the icon again?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Angeloz View Post
Don't worry I was just teasing about the glasses. Are there really people that believe in politicians and businessmen? 'Cos that's a shocking thing in the modern world.

Angeloz
well, a lot of people embraced bush when he was spreading his "terrorism" propaganda concerning this "war on terrorism". he played on the nation's fears and falsified information to make us feel like we needed to be protected from a threat that didn't exist. and the nation trusted bush and his administration to look out for our best interest...he even made proclamations insisting that we would be doing God's work.....and now years later...one has to wonder.... was it ever really about terrorism? or an attempt to get in and influence the control of the oil available there?

this is the stuff real villains are made of.

ThanosOfTitans is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-11-2007, 11:41 AM   #115
Angeloz
Side-Kick
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Planet Earth
Posts: 2,960
Default Re: How can Superman become the icon again?

I'm not arguing there about that.

Angeloz

Angeloz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-11-2007, 12:20 PM   #116
The Overlord
Side-Kick
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Posts: 7,407
Default Re: How can Superman become the icon again?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Angeloz View Post
No I just thought I'd bring it up as a question. 'Cos I can like deviations. Though I must admit I'm not that attatched to Lexcorp especially in a film. It's more for a serial storyline where he has to hide his evil side so as not get arrested all the time. I don't mind open and honest criminality in Lex. That said I don't object to Lexcorp in serial form either. I'm flexible on the issue and not one way or nothing about it. Oh well.

Angeloz
Pre Crisis Lex is just another mad scientist or in the case of the movies a common con man. There wasn't a whole lot that seperates him from every other mad scientist/con man. However Post crisis Lex is truely Superman's opposite, while Superman represents the best of America: bravery, compansion, kindness, etc, Lex represents the worst aspects of America: greed, arrogance, ruthlessness. What does pre crisis lex represent, anger over male pattern baldness and a obession with real estate?

Plus Post Crisis Lex is a Lawful Evil character a perfect counter to a lawful good Character like Superman. Unlike Pre crisis Lex, where Superman can smash his evil device and send him to prison, Superman has to fight Lex on a mental level, he can't fight him with his fists. Seriously since movie Lex can't create good schemes, what possible role could he play in any sequel?

The Overlord is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 06-11-2007, 12:26 PM   #117
The Kid
AMERICA FTW
 
The Kid's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Bronx
Posts: 12,766
Default Re: How can Superman become the icon again?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Armand Z Trip View Post
Is this logo on a shirt, or would you say other areas?



Sorry. Totally agree with the above statement.

__________________
Superman Returns is better than the Dark Knight
The Kid is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-11-2007, 01:01 PM   #118
El Payaso
Banned User
 
El Payaso's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Rubbing your rhubarb.
Posts: 15,263
Default Re: How can Superman become the icon again?

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Overlord View Post
Yes, but it is so crass, it seems like something that should be beneath Luthor. Lex should have more self respect than that. Any common con man could swindle old ladies out of their money, but creating a corporation, that takes true intelligence. Lex should be anything but common.
I think the problem of Lex wasn't self respect or intelligence (or the lack of those) but the fact he's quite famous for being a massive killer. No matter how 'intelligent' you could be, if your fame's based on how insane and dangerous you are, few business men would like to get their money involved with you. Let's not even mention to create a corporation when everybody knows you're an insane killer.

It was more about Lex's impossibility of making lots of money in short time, which he achieved with Gertrude. If for recovering his fortune, and maybe more in record time, Lex was pretty intelligent about getting involved with the old lady.

El Payaso is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-11-2007, 01:02 PM   #119
Angeloz
Side-Kick
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Planet Earth
Posts: 2,960
Default Re: How can Superman become the icon again?

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Overlord View Post
Pre Crisis Lex is just another mad scientist or in the case of the movies a common con man. There wasn't a whole lot that seperates him from every other mad scientist/con man. However Post crisis Lex is truely Superman's opposite, while Superman represents the best of America: bravery, compansion, kindness, etc, Lex represents the worst aspects of America: greed, arrogance, ruthlessness. What does pre crisis lex represent, anger over male pattern baldness and a obession with real estate?

Plus Post Crisis Lex is a Lawful Evil character a perfect counter to a lawful good Character like Superman. Unlike Pre crisis Lex, where Superman can smash his evil device and send him to prison, Superman has to fight Lex on a mental level, he can't fight him with his fists. Seriously since movie Lex can't create good schemes, what possible role could he play in any sequel?
The problem with Lex getting away with it constantly needs a serial for that to be effective. With films you might get 2 or 3 of them. That's my point - it's the wrong format. It's been awhile but I believe the animated series had both the business and later in the "JLU" criminal Lex. Either were good.

Angeloz

Angeloz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-11-2007, 01:06 PM   #120
Angeloz
Side-Kick
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Planet Earth
Posts: 2,960
Default Re: How can Superman become the icon again?

Quote:
Originally Posted by El Payaso View Post
I think the problem of Lex wasn't self respect or intelligence (or the lack of those) but the fact he's quite famous for being a massive killer. No matter how 'intelligent' you could be, if your fame's based on how insane and dangerous you are, few business men would like to get their money involved with you. Let's not even mention to create a corporation when everybody knows you're an insane killer.
Maybe he could get support from bald men. And become the bald mans terrorist.

Angeloz

Angeloz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-11-2007, 01:09 PM   #121
El Payaso
Banned User
 
El Payaso's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Rubbing your rhubarb.
Posts: 15,263
Default Re: How can Superman become the icon again?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Angeloz View Post
Maybe he could get support from bald men. And become the bald mans terrorist.

Angeloz
lol

International Bald Men Club will loan Lex money to stand for bald men's dignity in the Market.

"Yes,"! said the Chair man, "they call us killers or genocides because we have no hair. That's a mentality we're gonna change in this country."

El Payaso is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-11-2007, 01:25 PM   #122
DrMylesOBoogie
Side-Kick
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Dublin, Ireland
Posts: 2,156
Default Re: How can Superman become the icon again?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steelsheen View Post
i've been thinking if the popularity of Smallville is affecting how Superman performs at the movies. i'm thinking if the general public as reached a saturation point with all things Superman related it would make sense that they would look for something new on the big screen since they already get a regular doze of it from TV.

its just a thought.
Smallville's popularity wouldnt have mattered had Returns actually been really good. Fact is they got a movie with less action then some episodes of Smallville.

They fu**ed up every aspect that people love about Superman in the movie. The messed up the romance between Lois/Clark/Superman, it didnt offer anything new or groundbreaking and it wasnt very exciting.

DrMylesOBoogie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-11-2007, 02:21 PM   #123
Dr. Fate
Banned User
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Eternia
Posts: 12,741
Default Re: How can Superman become the icon again?

Quote:
Originally Posted by DrMylesOBoogie View Post
Smallville's popularity wouldnt have mattered had Returns actually been really good. Fact is they got a movie with less action then some episodes of Smallville.

They fu**ed up every aspect that people love about Superman in the movie. The messed up the romance between Lois/Clark/Superman, it didnt offer anything new or groundbreaking and it wasnt very exciting.
Yup.

Dr. Fate is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-11-2007, 10:49 PM   #124
Steelsheen
Iconic
 
Steelsheen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 9,103
Default Re: How can Superman become the icon again?

boy, some of you guys have a real hang up on not seeing Corporate Lex arent you?

as i've already mentioned, and what C.Lee has already covered, the script is flawed, the writers used Donner Lex as a backstory while maintaining the God Complex that Lex is noted for as a criminal scientist AND a corporate shark. with better writing they could still have Lex and his stolen Kryptonian technology come into play WITHOUT earning the hate of the world (at least not yet). the New Krypton land idea can still work, but not in the way that it was presented in the movie. the writers took too many shortcuts. now before you guys start ranting about how creating a new continent is stupid, remember that New Krypton NEEDED to be established for use in the sequel (if we're still gonna get it).


Quote:
Originally Posted by Angeloz View Post
What has Lex got to do with Superman being an icon?
Angeloz
sorry, this place has the propensity for doing that.

Welcome to the Superman Boards

__________________

M A D N E S S
IS LIKE GRAVITY
ALL IT TAKES
IS A LITTLE
PUSH


Join the newest Maze Runner Community built by Gladers for Gladers! http://themazerunner.net/forums

Follow me on Twitter: All the Geekery @Steelsheen | MazeRunner @DashnerGeek | Divergent @SteeleDivergent

avatar by Steelsheen
Steelsheen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-12-2007, 12:08 AM   #125
C. Lee
I'm not old...I'm ancient
SHH! Administrator
 
C. Lee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Posts: 45,537
Default Re: How can Superman become the icon again?

Quote:
Originally Posted by El Payaso View Post
I think the problem of Lex wasn't self respect or intelligence (or the lack of those) but the fact he's quite famous for being a massive killer. No matter how 'intelligent' you could be, if your fame's based on how insane and dangerous you are, few business men would like to get their money involved with you. Let's not even mention to create a corporation when everybody knows you're an insane killer.

It was more about Lex's impossibility of making lots of money in short time, which he achieved with Gertrude. If for recovering his fortune, and maybe more in record time, Lex was pretty intelligent about getting involved with the old lady.
Well......if the storyline hadn't have relied so much on Donner's Superman movie......then they could have created a Lex backstory where he wasn't known for being a mass murderer. Then he could be the corporate scientific genius with plans to rule the world.

C. Lee is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:56 PM.

monitoring_string = "dee460792f24517621e3ca080805de7e"
Contact Us - Mobile - SuperHeroHype - ComingSoon.net - Shock Till You Drop - Lost Password - Clear Cookies - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Top - AdChoices


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
SuperHeroHype.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.