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Old 08-02-2007, 01:17 AM   #26
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Default Re: Nolan Introduction to Batman: TLH (Absolute Edition)

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Originally Posted by Thespiralgoeson View Post
Sorry, but DKR was actually interesting.
I agree.

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Old 08-02-2007, 01:18 AM   #27
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Default Re: Nolan Introduction to Batman: TLH (Absolute Edition)

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Sorry, but DKR was actually interesting.
I'll agree with you there.

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Old 08-02-2007, 01:18 AM   #28
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Default Re: Nolan Introduction to Batman: TLH (Absolute Edition)

More than interesting it was actually great and re-defining.

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Old 08-02-2007, 01:18 AM   #29
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Default Re: Nolan Introduction to Batman: TLH (Absolute Edition)

if anything the sage is overrated

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Old 08-02-2007, 01:21 AM   #30
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Default Re: Nolan Introduction to Batman: TLH (Absolute Edition)

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Glad to hear I'm not the only one who thought TLH was overrated. It confuses me to this day, how acclaimed it is. But in a weird way, I can see what Nolan likes about it. The whole thing with the freaks versus Mob, the teaming up of Gordon/Dent/Batman. There are decent elements in there that can be embellished upon, but overall, "meh."
I agree, there are some great elements in TLH. But yeah, "meh."

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Old 08-02-2007, 01:22 AM   #31
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Default Re: Nolan Introduction to Batman: TLH (Absolute Edition)

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How are his motivations inconsistent?? Slow and boring? Yes, it is slowly paced but the atmosphere is dark and brooding and the artwork is great.
Sorry, I meant Maroni. Maroni's motivations are inconsistent. And I know this is blasphemy around her, but I've never been a fan of Tim Sale's artwork.

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Old 08-02-2007, 01:24 AM   #32
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Default Re: Nolan Introduction to Batman: TLH (Absolute Edition)

his catwoman is okay I guess

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Old 08-02-2007, 01:25 AM   #33
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Default Re: Nolan Introduction to Batman: TLH (Absolute Edition)

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Sorry, I meant Maroni. Maroni's motivations are inconsistent. And I know this is blasphemy around her, but I've never been a fan of Tim Sale's artwork.

Oh alright, you had me confused there. I can see where you are coming from on Maroni (though I do disagree). And damn, not a fan of Sale's art work? I think there are tears in my eyes somewhere.

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Old 08-02-2007, 01:25 AM   #34
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Default Re: Nolan Introduction to Batman: TLH (Absolute Edition)

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Here it is folks! Enjoy! (For the alphabetically challenged: CN = Chris Nolan DG = David Goyer)
Wow! I didn't expect you to really do it, but I just got back from dinner and here it is! Nice work, thanks! We owe you some SHH! bucks or something.

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Old 08-02-2007, 01:28 AM   #35
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Default Re: Nolan Introduction to Batman: TLH (Absolute Edition)

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Wow! I didn't expect you to really do it, but I just got back from dinner and here it is! Nice work, thanks! We owe you some SHH! bucks or something.
A few gold bat stars maybe...

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Old 08-02-2007, 01:29 AM   #36
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Default Re: Nolan Introduction to Batman: TLH (Absolute Edition)

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Wow! I didn't expect you to really do it, but I just got back from dinner and here it is! Nice work, thanks! We owe you some SHH! bucks or something.
That was a long dinner, haha.

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Old 08-02-2007, 04:17 AM   #37
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Default Re: Nolan Introduction to Batman: TLH (Absolute Edition)

Nolan and Goyer are overrating the originality of TLH.

That Batman Annual from 1990 introduces the whole "Batman working with the D.A. to put criminals in jail" concept (with the roof top meeting by the Bat Signal), as well as Feilds, the corrupt little punk who gave Maroni the acid to use on Dent.

DKR also raised the question of whether or not Batman is responsible for his villians, such as The Joker.

So it's not like TLH really paved any new ground. It just put a fresh coat of paint on an old car.

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Old 08-02-2007, 07:56 AM   #38
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Default Re: Nolan Introduction to Batman: TLH (Absolute Edition)

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if anything the sage is overrated
What is it with these guys always trying to start trouble? Everywhere I go.

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Old 08-02-2007, 08:09 AM   #39
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Default Re: Nolan Introduction to Batman: TLH (Absolute Edition)

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Nolan and Goyer are overrating the originality of TLH.

That Batman Annual from 1990 introduces the whole "Batman working with the D.A. to put criminals in jail" concept (with the roof top meeting by the Bat Signal), as well as Feilds, the corrupt little punk who gave Maroni the acid to use on Dent.

DKR also raised the question of whether or not Batman is responsible for his villians, such as The Joker.

So it's not like TLH really paved any new ground. It just put a fresh coat of paint on an old car.
More than that. It took old ideas and really expanded on them in an epic tale. It didn't just paint the old car, it pimped it.

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Old 08-02-2007, 08:17 AM   #40
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Default Re: Nolan Introduction to Batman: TLH (Absolute Edition)

Loeb and Miller and two of the best Batman writers there are. TLH and DKR are great reads. I think Year One is more influential then both of these but TLH is my favorite read.

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Old 08-02-2007, 08:29 AM   #41
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Default Re: Nolan Introduction to Batman: TLH (Absolute Edition)

TLH gets the acclaim becasue it did on a grand fashion with the relationship between Batman/Gordan/ Dent what was only hinted at in previous stories (Frank Miller's epic "Year one", 1990 Batman Annual) but it did add on to the lore the piting of the "freaks" in Gotham taking over the rackets formerlly held by the gangsters.

While not as classic or as interesting as DKR or Year one, or even the original RAS Al Ghul series by the great Denny O Neil and Neal Adams, the Long Halloween is respectful addition to one of the great stories in the Batman lore.

DG: For me, there are three major comic book influences within the Batman lore. Thereís YEAR ONE, the Neal Adams stuff, and there is TLH. But by the time THE DARK KNIGHT comes out, it will become apparent that TLH is the preeminent influence on both movies


I think that says it all for me. Where getting a movie version of TLH, which is more than great with me.


Maybe in the last movie we'll get a version of DARK VICTORY, one the few good origin stories of Robin.

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Old 08-02-2007, 09:12 AM   #42
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Default Re: Nolan Introduction to Batman: TLH (Absolute Edition)

Peteagassi, you are my hero of the day!

I've wanted to read what Nolan said for the new edition, but couldn't justify the money for a book I already have.

Thank you!!!!!

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Old 08-02-2007, 09:38 AM   #43
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Default Re: Nolan Introduction to Batman: TLH (Absolute Edition)

Personally DKR is overrated. TLH is freaking great while DKR is boring and weird.

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Old 08-02-2007, 10:12 AM   #44
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Default Re: Nolan Introduction to Batman: TLH (Absolute Edition)

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Maybe in the last movie we'll get a version of DARK VICTORY, one the few good origin stories of Robin.
I hope so. Year One = BB, TLH = TDK, DV = third movie. I'd love to see that.

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Old 08-02-2007, 10:57 AM   #45
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Default Re: Nolan Introduction to Batman: TLH (Absolute Edition)

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Here it is folks! Enjoy! (For the alphabetically challenged: CN = Chris Nolan DG = David Goyer)

INTRODUCTION: A Conversation with Christopher Nolan and David S. Goyer

CN: When youíre putting together a Batman film, people always ask, ďAre you looking at this comic book or that comic book?Ē And the truth is you look at all of them. As a filmmaker, though, THE LONG HALLOWEEN was one Batman story that really drew me in in terms of cinematic potential.

DG: It is cinematic. I think TLH stands out as probably the most ambitious Batman story thatís been told. It certainly feels like the most densely plotted.

CN: Itís a crime epic. Jeph Loeb did this incredible job of taking the more exotic elements of the Batman universe and grounding them in a believable world. He took supporting characters and gave them real lives and real emotions. And real consequences to their actions. This has tremendous impact on the reader. TLH is more than a comic book. Itís an epic tragedy.

DG: Right. And Tim Saleís artwork accentuates that by relying on a restricted color palette and a strong usage of shadow. It creates this stylistic balance between being expressionistic but also feeling somewhat realistic. It reminds me of Fritz Langís M. Most of the time people want to make these things look more like Metropolis, but I think it looks and feels more like M.

CN: Exactly. The artwork is fantastically noirish. It portrays this massive American city and the underworld that threatens to envelop it in striking detail and remarkable scope.

DG: In so many of the previous depictions of Batman, he was running around fighting bad guys in a vacuum. The machinations of the police, the corruption within the force, how Batman, and Gordon, and Dent negotiate all of that-none of that has been examined prior to TLH.

CN: Well, we co-opted TLHís idea of the triumvirate for Batman Begins to some extent, showing Batman function as one point of a strong triangle with the police and the D.A. by acting as a force that can crack things open and provide a wedge against all the corruption.

DG: That scene on the rooftop between Gordon, Dent, and Batman in TLH Ė in which you realize Batman can obviously bring criminals to justice, but he needs the police to arrest them and the D.A.ís office to prosecute them Ė that was something new that Jeph Loeb introduced into the lore. For Batman Begins, we used Rachel instead of Dent as the pinnacle of the triangle, but she still served the same function.

CN: Same function exactly. TLH suggested a very strong utility for Batman in Gotham, which helped us because when you try to adapt the character into a movie in a realistic manner, youíre left with that question, ďOkay, whatís Batmanís purpose?Ē He canít be everywhere at once. Heís not superhuman. Heís just a regular guy. So how will he be most effective? How can he leverage his skills to transform the whole city? TLH answered that question, positioning Batman and Bruce Wayne as a part of a greater mechanism in Gotham. Along those lines, I was impressed with how seamlessly Loeb and Sale were able to intergrate the more fantastical elements of Batman, more notably the villains, within the context of the real world, striking a balance that felt credible. It was a great inspiration to us in terms of tonality.

DG: Thatís certainly the case with Jim Gordon. TLH really ran with what Year One started, giving us an entirely different depiction of Gordon. Previously in the comic books, in the movies, and in the TV show, Gordon was this kind of bumbling, avuncular character, whereas in these stories, heís depicted as this beleaguered, mid-level sergeant in this rampantly corrupt police force, which is the Gordon we meet in Batman Begins.

CN: Yes. And I think as we get on with THE DARK KNIGHT, TLH is becoming more influential in terms of Harvey Dent. Throughout writing Batman Begins, we had always talked a lot about dealing with Harvey Dent, whether or not to feature him in some way in the movie. I think we had him in there in the very earliest stages of conception.

DG: Yeah, we did. Briefly.

CN: And then we realized we couldnít do him justice.

DG: For me, there are three major comic book influences within the Batman lore. Thereís YEAR ONE, the Neal Adams stuff, and there is TLH. But by the time THE DARK KNIGHT comes out, it will become apparent that TLH is the preeminent influence on both movies.

CN: Yeah, I think that could be right.

Christopher Nolan and David Goyer spoke about TLH on November 15, 2006, a few weeks before principal photography began on TDK.


Thanks for this, I didn;t buy this cos I already have original released comic book.

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Old 08-02-2007, 11:04 AM   #46
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Default Re: Nolan Introduction to Batman: TLH (Absolute Edition)

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That was a long dinner, haha.

It was a dinner meeting and I used public transportation.

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Old 08-02-2007, 11:14 AM   #47
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Default Re: Nolan Introduction to Batman: TLH (Absolute Edition)

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It was a dinner meeting and I used public transportation.
Ahhhh, fair enough.

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Old 08-02-2007, 11:16 AM   #48
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I hope so. Year One = BB, TLH = TDK, DV = third movie. I'd love to see that.
I don't know how much or any of Dark Victory we'll get for the third film. Nolan and WB has stated that they are not interested in any way of including Robin in to the mix. I think Nolan is more concerned with Bruce Wayne/Batman's arc for these films and doesn't find Robin to be particularly compelling.

Though I do agree that DV is probably the best Robin origin story (well, the only one I really like anyway).

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Old 08-02-2007, 12:16 PM   #49
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Default Re: Nolan Introduction to Batman: TLH (Absolute Edition)

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Personally DKR is overrated. TLH is freaking great while DKR is boring and weird.


Okay, just for thinking that in some states is illegal.

You would be arrested and then strip naked, hosed down and throughly washed with the sweat of Frank Miller while writing the next issue of ALL STAR BATMAN and then never allowed to read, or see another Batman comic, movie or cartoon ever again.

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Old 08-02-2007, 12:22 PM   #50
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Default Re: Nolan Introduction to Batman: TLH (Absolute Edition)

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More than interesting it was actually great and re-defining.
It was a great graphic novel, but IMO a poor Batman story.

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