List of Things Batman Returns got Right/Wrong

[El Payaso]

Apart from the hater's nonsense, anyone remembers the topic was BR here?

[The Guard]

We don't know which old DYNAMIC DUO stories are in continuity. All? None? A few like "Robin Dies At Dawn"?

I would imagine they are not, since that's why Earth-2 was created. For that older Batman mythology that saw Dick become Batman, Batman marry Catwoman, etc.

That's the question no one has ever really answered!

They shouldn't really have to. It's just common sense. Entire mythology becomes more serious, why would they suddenly have had silly adventures in the past?

I think it's an interesting take. It doesn't make much sense when we consider a realistic take. But why can't Batman have point in his career when Gotham City was a nice place and he had the time of his life?

If Gotham was a nice place, that makes the reason for Batman to exist so much less.

Although, it could be argued that he does have the time of his life. Many writers depict Batman as enjoying fighting crime. And he obviously cared deeply for Dick, Barbara, Jason and Tim, as well as Alfred and numerous others.

[Lazlo Panaflex]

I can think of one wrong right now, I'm not knocking on Keaton because of his height but he seems like a midget when walking past the giant ape that is Chip Shreck.

[Parents-Gun-Bat]

Originally Posted by The Guard

I would imagine they are not, since that's why Earth-2 was created. For that older Batman mythology that saw Dick become Batman, Batman marry Catwoman, etc.

This was not for what Earth-2 was created. They just used the concept later for this. And BTW, the switch from Earth-2 to Earth-1 happened sometime in the 50s, so all those silly adventures happened on Earth-1 and Earth-1 was the base for the post-crisis continuity.

[Paste Pot Pete]

Originally Posted by Lazlo Panaflex

I can think of one wrong right now, I'm not knocking on Keaton because of his height but he seems like a midget when walking past the giant ape that is Chip Shreck.

But isn't it Max...not Chip...who you'd like to see...immersed, up to his eyeballs...in raw sewege?

[The Guard]

This was not for what Earth-2 was created. They just used the concept later for this.

But they obviously used it. The Batman of Earth 2, the one with the older, "silly" elements to him, was clearly not meant to be the Batman who exists now, in current continuity.

And BTW, the switch from Earth-2 to Earth-1 happened sometime in the 50s, so all those silly adventures happened on Earth-1 and Earth-1 was the base for the post-crisis continuity.

Elaborate.

[Parents-Gun-Bat]

Originally Posted by The Guard

But they obviously used it. The Batman of Earth 2, the one with the older, "silly" elements to him, was clearly not meant to be the Batman who exists now, in current continuity.

The Batman of Earth 2 is actually the guy with all those serious elements. He is the guy who used a gun and he didn't have the silly era.

Elaborate.

The post-crisis Batman is the same as the pre-crisis Batman and this was Batman from Earth-1. Earth-1 was altered but it was the dominant part of the new continuity. Superman became someone else, Wonder Woman changed a lot, Batman was the same. And most of the characters were exactly like their Earth-1 counterparts. Joker, Two-Face, Catwoman, Green Lantern, Hawkman, Plastic Man, ... - all the same as they were before.

[The Guard]

The Batman of Earth 2 is actually the guy with all those serious elements. He is the guy who used a gun and he didn't have the silly era.

Then where did the silly elements go?

The post-crisis Batman is the same as the pre-crisis Batman and this was Batman from Earth-1. Earth-1 was altered but it was the dominant part of the new continuity. Superman became someone else, Wonder Woman changed a lot, Batman was the same. And most of the characters were exactly like their Earth-1 counterparts. Joker, Two-Face, Catwoman, Green Lantern, Hawkman, Plastic Man, ... - all the same as they were before.

Are you trying to say that Earth-1 Batman had the silly elements in his past? Hmm...

I hate the concept of a Crisis to rearrange things. I don't understand why people cannot just recognize that Batman is a character and has many versions and stories.

[El Payaso]

Originally Posted by Lazlo Panaflex

I can think of one wrong right now, I'm not knocking on Keaton because of his height but he seems like a midget when walking past the giant ape that is Chip Shreck.

Batman looked smaller than that giant black guy on the tower bell too. Chip Douglas could be a tall guy.

Taller people make smaller people look smaller.

This is, once again, a random ridiculous statement to keep this thread on topic. We thank you for the effort this might have meant. It's still nothing BR got wrong.

[Parents-Gun-Bat]

Originally Posted by The Guard

Then where did the silly elements go?

They just wrote more serious stories. They did not mention these things.

Are you trying to say that Earth-1 Batman had the silly elements in his past? Hmm...

I hate the concept of a Crisis to rearrange things. I don't understand why people cannot just recognize that Batman is a character and has many versions and stories.

Yes, to distinguish exactly between Earth-1 and Earth-2 is difficult, because there is not a real line to draw. It was in the early/mid-50s. So

< 1954: Earth 2-Batman, the guy who killed
> 1954: Earth 1-Batman, the guy who lived through the Silver Age with all its silliness and faced more serious and grittier stories in the 70s and the Bronze Age. And the guy who IS basically the guy we still read about today.

But you could also say from 1939 to 2007 it's the same ongoing character.
Not like Superman, who became someone else in 1986.

[The Guard]

It seems kind of silly just to put the "Batman who killed" on Earth 2. Then again, Earth-2 is a silly concept anyway. Clark Kent became someone else in 1986. Superman stayed pretty similar. Granted, he sold less war bonds...

[Angeloz]

Originally Posted by The Guard

It seems kind of silly just to put the "Batman who killed" on Earth 2. Then again, Earth-2 is a silly concept anyway. Clark Kent became someone else in 1986. Superman stayed pretty similar. Granted, he sold less war bonds...

Not his power range. 'Cos he couldn't blow out stars nor juggle planets. And he couldn't hold his breath in space indefinitely either. Although his powers do vary from time to time.

Edited to add: then there's the kryptonite (I don't know if they've changed it much again).

Angeloz

[Parents-Gun-Bat]

Originally Posted by Angeloz

Not his power range. 'Cos he couldn't blow out stars nor juggle planets. And he couldn't hold his breath in space indefinitely either. Although his powers do vary from time to time.

Edited to add: then there's the kryptonite (I don't know if they've changed it much again).

Angeloz

And not his intelligence, too. He became "average intelligent" compared to "super-intelligent" before.

Farmboy Superman

[Cain]

Don't know if anybody is aware of this but Super intelligence has been reintroduced to the Superman canon. As big a fan of Batman as I am I also did find it stupid that they always depicted him as smarter than Kal-El post-crisis. Aside from that I love a lot of the post-crisis Superman stuff as a loto of great elements came from that as well as my favorite Superman comic book of all time (Action Comics #775).

[The Guard]

Not his power range. 'Cos he couldn't blow out stars nor juggle planets. And he couldn't hold his breath in space indefinitely either. Although his powers do vary from time to time.

This is negligible. He pushed the Moon out of orbit once. He lifted a massive, continent sized piece of Earth in one of the early revamp stories.

As far as I know, he could still hold his breath for a decent amount of time, they just didn't make him do it so often.

Edited to add: then there's the kryptonite (I don't know if they've changed it much again).

What about the Kryptonite?

And not his intelligence, too. He became "average intelligent" compared to "super-intelligent" before.

It's down to the writers. Superman's intelligence was often a Deux Ex Machina in the Silver Age. He wasn't portrayed as smart later on because it made for better drama and conflicts. And it was partially because before, he was Superman in the middle of his career, and during the revamp, he was starting his career over. His intelligence remained fairly above average, he just wasn't uber-brilliant. But they did develop him back to that point, to a point.

[Parents-Gun-Bat]

Originally Posted by Cain

Don't know if anybody is aware of this but Super intelligence has been reintroduced to the Superman canon. As big a fan of Batman as I am I also did find it stupid that they always depicted him as smarter than Kal-El post-crisis.

Yes, I know that, and I like it. But I'm still not really satisfied with the new Superman.

And I'm probably more a fan of Batman than Superman but the idea that Batman was smarter than Superman was always ridiculous to me. And beating Superman. Just because you feel Batman is cooler doesn't mean he can beat Superman.

[Pfeiffer-Pfan]

Originally Posted by Parents-Gun-Bat

Yes, I know that, and I like it. But I'm still not really satisfied with the new Superman.

And I'm probably more a fan of Batman than Superman but the idea that Batman was smarter than Superman was always ridiculous to me. And beating Superman. Just because you feel Batman is cooler doesn't mean he can beat Superman.

Its fictional comic books... batman can be smarter/stronger than superman if the writer so chooses... and based on the readers interpretation.

[Mr. Socko]

What BR got wrong?

Catwoman's high heels become flat shoes when doing her backflips.

Bruce Wayne puts his coat on twice after opening the secret entrance to the Batcave in the fish tank and the shot after he dips his hand into the fish tank, his arm is automatically dry again.

When the Penguin makes the shadow of a bird on the ceiling, he is lying on a bed with his hands directly above his chest. So where is the light that causes the shadow?

When the Penguin is controlling the Batmobile, a mechanical lifting arm can be seen extending from the side of the building, moving a police car that the Batmobile smashes into.

When Bruce plays the CD, the Penguin's dialogue is spoken differently than when it was first recorded in the Batmobile.

When Selina makes her Catwoman outfit she picks up a small pair of blue handled scissors, in the next shot she has a larger pair of pink scissors

When The Penguin is in the Hall of Records, we see him through a window and it's snowing outside. In the next shot we see the Batmobile come around the corner and it's not snowing, but in a shot of Batman from inside the Batmobile, it's snowing again.

When Schreck is introducing the Penguin to his election staff, he is wearing a coat. Moments later, his coat is missing.

[ShadowBoxing]

I like this movie quite a bit actually. It's by far the best bat-costume in a major motion picture. Aside from the classic problems of limiting movement it made the slight Michael Keaton seem legitimately imposing when he wore it. In a way it reminds me of the BTAS uniform in the way it shapes his chest and arms, giving that almost "blocky" Bruce Timm style physique when worn.

I enjoyed the villains too, especially Oswald "Penguin" Cobblepot, who turned out better than his less than interesting comic counterpart. True, the movie is weird and a little Burton-esque. I don't feel this is inconsistent with Batman, who has had weird interpretations of him in the past.

This movie solidifies Michael Keaton as my choice for best "actor" to don the cowl of Batman. Physically he's no match for Bale, and Bale is a good enough actor that he has done the best job all around. Keaton however has acted the best despite his limitations. I would've easily taken him and Burton for a third or fourth given the opportunity.

[Parents-Gun-Bat]

"I mistook me for someone else" - WORST LINE EVER

[The Joker]

Originally Posted by Parents-Gun-Bat

"I mistook me for someone else" - WORST LINE EVER

Holy ridiculous exaggeration, Batman!

[Parents-Gun-Bat]

Originally Posted by Joker

Holy ridiculous exaggeration, Batman!

C'MON! How forced and wannabe-deep, that line!

BAD!

Like anyone would say that.

Even not by ACCIDENT.

[DocLathropBrown]

And Parents-Gun-Bat again tries to be clever but fails miserably by his lack of sophistication.

[Bat Attack]

Originally Posted by DocLathropBrown

And Parents-Gun-Bat again tries to be clever but fails miserably by his lack of sophistication.

so true.

[Parents-Gun-Bat]

You must FACE IT!

There is more wrong with the Burton movies than right.

I almost think of those movies as PARODIES.

Look at Frank Miller's The Spirit that would be an awesome look for a BATMAN movie.

A cool guy, not a nutjob like Burton saw the character!