List of Things Batman Returns got Right/Wrong

[ShaneHelms]

Not to mention the specific scene in Batman Returns where he is clearly doing detective work on the background of The Red Triangle Gang.

[El Payaso]

Originally Posted by Parents-Gun-Bat

Burton's BAtman a detective? Funny.

I think "Bombermurderman" would be more appropriate

What about "Bannedfortrolling"

[TruerToTheCore]

I used to regard the Burton movies as the 60s show reversed in a BIZARRO way. You know, like that show was funny and campy they went back and tried so hard to make everything dark. Nicholson played the Joker role like an evil twin of Cesar Romero, and they took the small and not-so-good-looking Michael Keaton to replace the tall lady's man Adam West.

[DocLathropBrown]

Originally Posted by TruerToTheCore

I used to regard the Burton movies as the 60s show reversed in a BIZARRO way. You know, like that show was funny and campy they went back and tried so hard to make everything dark. Nicholson played the Joker role like an evil twin of Cesar Romero, and they took the small and not-so-good-looking Michael Keaton to replace the tall lady's man Adam West.

Hey, PGB. Didn't think you'd fool us, did you?

[I Am The Knight]

I thought he just had a probationary ban? Did he had such an urge to post that he created a new user

[TruerToTheCore]

Originally Posted by DocLathropBrown

Hey, PGB. Didn't think you'd fool us, did you?

Who is PGB?

[DocLathropBrown]

It's no coincidence that when PGB is on probation that a new user who's anti-Burton shows up. Animosity against the Burton films is on the decline these days, so I don't believe it's a coincidence. He even keeps the "silver-age / 60s series" prefurred bias.

It's sad and pathetic that PGB has so little in his life that he has to crusade against Burton's films and their fans.

[turtlefocker]

Returns is my second favorite bat movie, after BB. This movie still kicks ass though I don't get why Jett doesn't like it.

[S.A.A.D.]

^I don't get why Jett doesn't like Returns either,didn't he give it a D+? Heck,if I remember correctly he gave Batman Forever a C ?.

[turtlefocker]

ahh, well. Who am I to talk? I like B&R....

1. Batman Begins (9/10)
2. Batman Returns (8/20)
3. Batman '89 (7/10) ---- Batman and Robin (7/10)
4. Batman The Movie (6/10)
5. Batman Forever (5/10)

[DocLathropBrown]

Originally Posted by S.A.A.D

^I don't get why Jett doesn't like Returns either,didn't he give it a D+? Heck,if I remember correctly he gave Batman Forever a C ?.

It's only because Batman Returns didn't do Batman the way he wanted Batman to be done. I can understand disliking the film, I don't hate him for it, but his reasons for why it's terrible show a complete and utter lack of understanding. And by how he gobbles-up anything Christopher Nolan does, maybe he's not bright enough to be able to appreciate interpretations other than what he prefurs?

You can point out all of the truly "Batman" things that are in BR until you're blue in the face, and Jett will act as if he doesn't hear you. It's like talking to a fish.

[Dr. Fate]

Call it a plothole if you will, but when Bruce is playing the Penguin's "pin head puppets...harp from hell" bit, is it me or is it missing something? Perhaps going back to when he originally recorded the Penguin's tirade in the Batmobile, one thing he needed to record, something that would help nail the coffin shut on the Penguin's faux 'nice benevolent guy' image would be the Penguin bragging about framing Batman for the Ice Princess's death. Something like the Penguin gloating "Hey Bats, you shoulda seen the look on your face when I knocked that ice broad off the roof!" [insert evil laughter]

Oh well, I guess they figured it wasn't necessary since they had the Penguin shoot at the crowd.

[TruerToTheCore]

well, Burton gave us Michael Keaton in a rubber suit.

Don't know if this is good or bad

[DaRkVeNgeanCe]

Originally Posted by DocLathropBrown

It's no coincidence that when PGB is on probation that a new user who's anti-Burton shows up. Animosity against the Burton films is on the decline these days, so I don't believe it's a coincidence. He even keeps the "silver-age / 60s series" prefurred bias.

It's sad and pathetic that PGB has so little in his life that he has to crusade against Burton's films and their fans.

the kids a frickin idiot, sorry to put it so bluntly.

[Kevin Roegele]

'Things Batman Returns got right' by what criteria? Whose criteria?

You understand that the movie version of Batman defines the character far more than the comics have ever done, simply by reaching more people. Who is to say the Returns version of Batman is any less 'right' than the non-existant comic version that some fans seem to think is some holy scripture?

[Mr. Socko]

That is why this thread is essentially just subjective. What it got right and wrong is basically just our opinions and preferences.

I think BR got Catwoman down perfectly. Many others will say she was entirely wrong.

[Kevin Roegele]

Originally Posted by Mr. Socko

That is why this thread is essentially just subjective. What it got right and wrong is basically just our opinions and preferences.

I think BR got Catwoman down perfectly. Many others will say she was entirely wrong.

I think Returns has the best ever versions of Catwoman and the Penguin, in any medium.

[El Payaso]

Originally Posted by Kevin Roegele

I think Returns has the best ever versions of Catwoman and the Penguin, in any medium.

And Catwoman was already a good character. Penguin simply went from lousy to excellent.

[Kevin Roegele]

Originally Posted by El Payaso

And Catwoman was already a good character. Penguin simply went from lousy to excellent.

The Penguin became comedic yet tragic, despicably evil yet pathetic, and truly scary. How anyone could say that is not an improvement on any previous version of the Penguin is beyond me.

[mongoose-mania]

^I agree completely. Before the Penguin was just a little guy in a suit with an umbrella and a cigarette. Hardly threatening at all. But I think what Burton did was sheer perfection and it made him one of Batman's most sickly-sweet characters. Sure he's pretty evil, but you still kinda feel bad for the guy.

[DaRkVeNgeanCe]

Originally Posted by El Payaso

And Catwoman was already a good character. Penguin simply went from lousy to excellent.

I agree with that, though both a little over the top they both worked for what Burton was going for with the whole film.

[Leenie]

What Batman Returns got right:

• Selina/Catwoman and Bruce/Batman's relationship. Every exchange they had together was perfect. In fact, this part of the movie is the ONLY reason why I even care to re-watch this movie.
• The atmosphere of Gotham City. I like it. I like it a lot.

What Batman Returns got wrong:

• BATMAN KILLING PEOPLE! I remember that this didn't bother me when the movie first came out (I was only 6 years old at the time), but when I saw the movie again about a decade later, the killing REALLY ticked me off! It still does! I can't cheer for a superhero who smiles when he kills the baddies.
• The Penguin. Tim Burton, in his usual freaky style, ruined this character. The sad part is that Danny DeVito was the perfect casting. What wasted potential.
• Catwoman's origin. Sorry, I thought the whole supernatural origin was just plain stupid. And because of the origin, Catwoman sometimes acted a bit too eccentric for my taste. Eating a bird and licking herself was too much.
• The movie felt more like a villain movie than a Batman movie. I have to agree with Jett on this one.
• The ending was so stupid. An army of penguins with rocket packs? I would have accepted this in the 1960's Batman, but when it comes to a movie that's aiming to be really dark, then it's awful!

Anywho, this is all I can think of at the moment. Yeah, I'm not a big fan of this movie. Batman '89 is the only film of the original four that I'm a fan of.

[Jack O Lantern]

BATMAN KILLING PEOPLE! I remember that this didn't bother me when the movie first came out (I was only 6 years old at the time), but when I saw the movie again about a decade later, the killing REALLY ticked me off! It still does! I can't cheer for a superhero who smiles when he kills the baddies.

You're not supposed to. At the end of Batman Wayne had got revenge on the man who had killed his parents. He expected this to cause closeure but it just deepened his madness and the lines between doing what was right and wrong became blurred to him. It's not until he meets Catwoman who represents the direction that he is heading that he begins to look at himself and his actions more closing.

[Leenie]

Originally Posted by MJD

You're not supposed to. At the end of Batman Wayne had got revenge on the man who had killed his parents. He expected this to cause closeure but it just deepened his madness and the lines between doing what was right and wrong became blurred to him. It's not until he meets Catwoman who represents the direction that he is heading that he begins to look at himself and his actions more closing.

Seeing conflict in Batman's character about killing people is very interesting, and I think it's a necessary story to tell. However, the conflict doesn't mean anything when we keep seeing him kill people. If the movie had shown Batman fighting the temptation to kill instead, then I would have been more invested in the conflict. I think the movie screwed up.

[Jack O Lantern]

The movie was part two of three. In the third movie, and this still happens just not as well done as I would assume Burton would have done, he fights against his actions in Batman Returns. In Forever he says somthing like "You go and you kill him but your pain doesn't die with Harvey; it grows so you go after another face then another until one terrible day to wake up and discover that your whole life has become about vengeance."