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Old 10-22-2007, 01:55 AM   #276
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Default Re: Variety says Dougherty and Harris are out.

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Judgment of SR aside, I think most of us can at least agree that it wasn't the breakout event film that Superman deserved, after a 20 year hiatus. Especially in this day and age where practically anything is possible on the silver screen. Like someone said, I honestly do not think Singer is capable of something of this magnitude. He is clearly best suited for the smaller, dramatic films.


The outsider element wasn't the problem at all. It's definitely a plus. But there comes a time when you have to know when to draw a line between stretching that plot out. Superman as a character is supposed to inspire hope, and is above sulking in his own misery. Imo, SR failed to capture the heart and soul of the character and instead provided us with a very gloom outtake, that alienated audiences.
Couldn`t have said it better.

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Old 10-22-2007, 01:55 AM   #277
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Default Re: Variety says Dougherty and Harris are out.

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Superman MIGHT be the ultimate outsider. However, all he does, everything he stands for is based on uplifiting feelings, hope, above all.

THE BEAUTY of the character is that in THe greatest tragedy that has every happened to HIM(tHE DESTRUCTION OF HIS WHOLE PLANET) what he got from that is an uplifiting feeling: He was saved by Jor-el and Lara`s sacrifice.

Singer in my opinion didnt GET the character at all. A lot of people dont. He got a part of it. And thats what we got with SR.
The whole thing about recent characterizations of Superman is that he is a God, but his time on Earth made him human. He is human, humans have emotions feel pain etc. He comes back to see the love of his life with another man, anyone would be sad...Superman- in any characterization would be sad about that.

The whole thing was to present a challenge to Superman that he couldn't simply punch to defeat. He is Superman after all, nothing can hurt him physically, so Bryan Singer listened to Norman Osborn and "attacked his heart".

He longed to be part of the human race. The one girl who accepted him had now moved on, and he was again alone. Yet, he saved the man she was with..that's pretty Superman to me. Even when he felt he didn't belong to the world, he risked his life to save it...that's pretty Superman. He put his own wants behind his own (wanted to have his Kryptonian culture and ridding the world of New Krypton)...that's pretty Superman.

I'd say Mr. Singer "got" the character.

-R

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Old 10-22-2007, 01:56 AM   #278
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Default Re: Variety says Dougherty and Harris are out.

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Thank gawd those two idiots are off the project, they were the main reason Superman Returns sucked so badly! Today is a happy day!
"Today we celebrate Harris and Dougherty no longer being attached to a Superman film!"


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Old 10-22-2007, 01:57 AM   #279
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Default Re: Variety says Dougherty and Harris are out.

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So now the WB will have to cast Superman for two different movies
Where in that article does it say they would be recasting Superman if the solo franchise were to continue?

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Old 10-22-2007, 01:59 AM   #280
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Default Re: Variety says Dougherty and Harris are out.

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The whole thing about recent characterizations of Superman is that he is a God, but his time on Earth made him human. He is human, humans have emotions feel pain etc. He comes back to see the love of his life with another man, anyone would be sad...Superman- in any characterization would be sad about that.

The whole thing was to present a challenge to Superman that he couldn't simply punch to defeat. He is Superman after all, nothing can hurt him physically, so Bryan Singer listened to Norman Osborn and "attacked his heart".

He longed to be part of the human race. The one girl who accepted him had now moved on, and he was again alone. Yet, he saved the man she was with..that's pretty Superman to me. Even when he felt he didn't belong to the world, he risked his life to save it...that's pretty Superman. He put his own wants behind his own (wanted to have his Kryptonian culture and ridding the world of New Krypton)...that's pretty Superman.

I'd say Mr. Singer "got" the character.

-R
I dont wanna go through this all over again. Read the discussion me,megojoe, El payaso and others had about SR on the "WAs Superman out of character thread" .I completely disagree with you and WB does too. Superman is not about getting his love back. He is about hope and making the world a better place. I got nothing of that in SR.

The fact is...Singer`s Superman didnt resonate and was scrapped. The writers are gone. End of story.

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Old 10-22-2007, 02:02 AM   #281
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Default Re: Variety says Dougherty and Harris are out.

Bringing Superman back to the big screen and a new generation of fans was a good idea,but the concept of rooting it into the continuity of the films of the 70s and 80s was a fool's move.

I don't care how much of a hard on Singer had for Donner,a fresh re-start would have been perfect considering the amount of time that had passed.

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Old 10-22-2007, 02:03 AM   #282
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Default Re: Variety says Dougherty and Harris are out.

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Oh-oh....this doesn't look good.
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Sanchez from IESB chimes in...
Wow...they were gonna have Darkseid?

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Old 10-22-2007, 02:11 AM   #283
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Default Re: Variety says Dougherty and Harris are out.

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Thank God, I am glad Singer will not touch Superman again.
When did it said that? Last I heard, the writers are out. Not Singer. Read the title again.

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Agreed.

Connect the dots folks. A new director coming on board a new Superman film - regardless of what it's called - is going to have his own "vision" and he's going to want to cast it his way. Reference George Miller and his teen JLA.

We also have the words of Greg I'm-so-confused Noveck, who just this past week saw fit to point out that each iteration of Superman needs to have a different actor in the tights so the audience won't be confused. Yeah, okay.

Regardless, I think it's safe to say that Singer's MOS is dead at this point, despite Warner's spin machine. They will be back to Square One shortly when it comes to decisions being made for solo Superman films and the future of the franchise in general. JMHO.
Why you haven't post on SR forum in awhile until now? Cheater!!


But honestly, I'm sure Singer may stay despite the 2 writers are out. It not like those 2 are the only people he does movies with. For all we know, he can get Christopher McQuarrie to help out. Or maybe someone new. Time will tell. Maybe Singer can have Geoff Johns come aboard as I said somewhere else. Yeah, that's wishful thinking.

And venom420, the 2 do read comic books. Just because they didn't make the movie like some wanted doesn't mean they don't know who Darkseid is. Unless you were being sarcastic, that is.

Wolzard, calm down please. It's not the end of the world, so let wait & see. If Singer doesn't return, then fine. Just as long Routh, Spacey, etc. return, then I'm fine with that. Routh deserve to play Supes again, since he was great.

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Old 10-22-2007, 02:17 AM   #284
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Default Re: Variety says Dougherty and Harris are out.

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Oh-oh....this doesn't look good.

Wow...they were gonna have Darkseid?
Is Darkseid a bad thing for the film?

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Old 10-22-2007, 02:51 AM   #285
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Default Re: Variety says Dougherty and Harris are out.

Well, here's to hoping they find someone decent to pen the script now. I hope that McQuarrie is the lead option, or at least someone semi-competent that isn't a flavor-of-the-week writer. This could either be a very good omen for the quality of the sequel...or an extremely bad one. I liked SR, but if the writers aren't returning I don't necessarily see it as the end of the world, or something. I just hope the replacement(s) aren't geared towards the hollow garbage that McG/Ratner/Burton were set to film. And if it is indeed true that Darkseid was set to be the villain for the sequel they had planned, then obviously Warner doesn't understand how awesome that could've been.

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Old 10-22-2007, 02:53 AM   #286
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Default Re: Variety says Dougherty and Harris are out.

This news is very very good news. I seen this on other sites.


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Old 10-22-2007, 02:54 AM   #287
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Default Re: Variety says Dougherty and Harris are out.

I hope they still make a sequel, I am not a big fan of singer or his writers so I don't see this as a bad thing, I wouldn't be opposed to them losing singer, but as long as we get a decent script this time I think this movie has potential again. I do hope that routh moves over to the JL film though now

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Old 10-22-2007, 03:11 AM   #288
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Default Re: Variety says Dougherty and Harris are out.

It's the end for Superman franchise.

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Old 10-22-2007, 03:16 AM   #289
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Default Re: Variety says Dougherty and Harris are out.

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I hope they still make a sequel, I am not a big fan of singer or his writers so I don't see this as a bad thing, I wouldn't be opposed to them losing singer, but as long as we get a decent script this time I think this movie has potential again. I do hope that routh moves over to the JL film though now
No. It's over. It is now dead.

I'm soo pissed.

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Old 10-22-2007, 03:18 AM   #290
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Default Re: Variety says Dougherty and Harris are out.

OK, we have "The sky is falling!" group, "The sky's the limit!" group, and then all the rational people going "Hmmm...".

Showtime, you might very well be right about Singer not being on the project; if that should happen, and MoS end up being a sequel to SR, then I think that Singer should at least have a production role on it, so that his ideas can be maintained even if he isn't in the director's chair.

And there is nothing saying that it is always Singer, Dougherty and Harris or bust.

If Singer really cares about the characters, then he'll do the movie, or at least stay connected to it.

My two cents.

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Old 10-22-2007, 03:20 AM   #291
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Default Re: Variety says Dougherty and Harris are out.

its not dead, unless people don't give the next incarnation a chance, but I understand where you are coming from, I was the same way when I heard that angs hulk wasn't getting a sequel and then hensleys punisher wasn't, but both of the new movies for each character has some potential so I can't help but think the next incarnation of superman might have the same potential.

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Old 10-22-2007, 03:30 AM   #292
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Default Re: Variety says Dougherty and Harris are out.

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Is Darkseid a bad thing for the film?
On the contrary. Besides Brainiac and Bizzaro, Darkseid has been the supervillain many fans have been asking to have in a sequel.

If there's anyone who could pose a physical threat to Superman and give us the super fights we've been craving for it's him.

Question is why would Warners balk at this idea even if it included the kid? Was the pitch bad? Was the script bad? Would it have been too expensive?

This bit from the Variety article is strange.....
Quote:
"Superman Returns" scribes Michael Dougherty and Dan Harris have opted not to come back and pen a sequel to the 2006 summer pic that would have reunited them with helmer Bryan Singer. The three also worked together on "X2: X-Men United."
Opted not to come back?Wasn't Dougherty busy penning the screenplay over the past few months?

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Old 10-22-2007, 03:32 AM   #293
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Default Re: Variety says Dougherty and Harris are out.

I agree what chud.com has to say about Dougherty and Harris; they're not hacks. Well I don't think they are. It just didn't work out with Superman.

My opinion has always been mixed on SR. I think conceptionlly, it's an interesting story. But they could of went through a 100 different ways in how to approach Superman's eventual return to Earth. I just think they had the right intent but they didn't hit the ball out of the ballpark.

By all means, I don't think Superman Returns was crap. It just wasn't hitting the right notes with me, and in someways, it reminded me of Ang Lee's Hulk. Ang Lee, like SInger, is a talented director. Perhaps, this is not the right genre for them. I don't know.

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Old 10-22-2007, 03:33 AM   #294
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Default Re: Variety says Dougherty and Harris are out.

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On the contrary. Besides Brainiac and Bizzaro, Darkseid has been the supervillain many fans have been asking to have in a sequel.

If there's anyone who could pose a physical threat to Superman and give us the super fights we've been craving for it's him.

Question is why would Warners balk at this idea even if it included the kid? Was the pitch bad? Was the script bad? Would it have been too expensive?

This bit from the Variety article is strange.....


Opted not to come back?Wasn't Dougherty busy penning the screenplay over the past few months?
They never even finished a first draft of the screenplay. I believe that was the main reason Warner opted with Justice League. The script had come in on time and was spectacular. Didn't help that many people hated Singer's Superman.

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Old 10-22-2007, 03:43 AM   #295
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Default Re: Variety says Dougherty and Harris are out.

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I agree what chud.com has to say about Dougherty and Harris; they're not hacks. Well I don't think they are. It just didn't work out with Superman.

My opinion has always been mixed on SR. I think conceptionlly, it's an interesting story. But they could of went through a 100 different ways in how to approach Superman's eventual return to Earth. I just think they had the right intent but they didn't hit the ball out of the ballpark.

By all means, I don't think Superman Returns was crap. It just wasn't hitting the right notes with me, and in someways, it reminded me of Ang Lee's Hulk. Ang Lee, like SInger, is a talented director. Perhaps, this is not the right genre for them. I don't know.
I agree with it feeling like hulk, but I think that singer could do the genre just he doesn't identify with superman as easily as he did with xmen I think the xmen was his nitch, x3 could have been much better if singer had done it instead of superman returns IMO.

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Old 10-22-2007, 03:47 AM   #296
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Default Re: Variety says Dougherty and Harris are out.

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What happens? Superman now has a chance. Maybe someone who understands his mittology(=more than 2 movies) and has a passion for the character and will take care of him.

As Singer himself said in the documentary

"Superman will exisit long after i`m gone"

THANK GOD for that!!!
Do you mean mythology?

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Old 10-22-2007, 03:48 AM   #297
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Default Re: Variety says Dougherty and Harris are out.

I agree that X3 could of been better with Singer or even Matthew Vaughn. To this day, I still surprised that X3 has a fairly large fan base when it's the one movie that did things that it shouldn't of, and in my opinion, people should of been in a bigger uproar.

But that's for a different discussion all together...

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Old 10-22-2007, 03:48 AM   #298
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Default Re: Variety says Dougherty and Harris are out.

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I agree what chud.com has to say about Dougherty and Harris; they're not hacks. Well I don't think they are. It just didn't work out with Superman.

My opinion has always been mixed on SR. I think conceptionlly, it's an interesting story. But they could of went through a 100 different ways in how to approach Superman's eventual return to Earth. I just think they had the right intent but they didn't hit the ball out of the ballpark.

By all means, I don't think Superman Returns was crap. It just wasn't hitting the right notes with me, and in someways, it reminded me of Ang Lee's Hulk. Ang Lee, like SInger, is a talented director. Perhaps, this is not the right genre for them. I don't know.
I wish more people who disliked the movie spoke like this.
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They never even finished a first draft of the screenplay.I believe that was the main reason Warner opted with Justice League. The script had come in on time and was spectacular. Didn't help that many people hated Singer's Superman.
You sure? If i'm not mistaken Dougherty did pen a few drafts.

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Old 10-22-2007, 03:50 AM   #299
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well, i've always been a fair dude, Retro

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Old 10-22-2007, 03:51 AM   #300
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Default Re: Variety says Dougherty and Harris are out.

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You sure? If i'm not mistaken Dougherty did pen a few drafts.
I'm pretty sure that he didn't hand in a screenplay to the studio. Otherwise, you would have seen a screenplay review up on some website. They do have a treatment and were going to base the screenplay on that, though, and the treatment was handed in.

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