Captain America

[PaulGilbert]

When he comes back, which he will, The Cap needs a serious power boost. There's only so many times you can say he used his superior military training, master strategy or leadership skills to overcome an enemy. I would prefere they gave him low end Super-Human strength at the minimun. This would then atleast allow him to have believable confrontations with other charecters. I wouldnt mind as much but he does get into fights that he would just be destroyed in. The Scan over in the Marvels Strongest thread over Cap K.Oing The Hulk is ridiculous for something with 'Human' strength.

[wolvie2020]

Well, from Marvel.com;

"Powers
Captain America represented the pinnacle of human physical perfection. He experienced a time when he was augmented to superhuman levels, but generally performed just below superhuman levels for most of his career. Captain America had a very high intelligence as well as agility, strength, speed, endurance, and reaction time superior to any Olympic athlete who ever competed. The Super-Soldier formula that he had metabolized had enhanced all of his bodily functions to the peak of human efficiency. Most notably, his body eliminates the excessive build-up of fatigue-producing poisons in his muscles, granting him phenomenal endurance.

Abilities
Captain America had mastered the martial arts of American-style boxing and judo, and had combined these disciplines with his own unique hand-to-hand style of combat. He had also shown skill and knowledge of a number of other martial arts. He engaged in a daily regimen of rigorous exercise (including aerobics, weight lifting, gymnastics, and simulated combat) to keep himself in peak condition. Captain America was one of the finest human combatants Earth had ever known."

I think it's pretty cool for Cap to have these powers. Not only that, I think making him TOO powerful distorts the idea of who Cap is. He is what we should all be aspire to be... Take him too far with his powers, and he's no longer someone we can aspire to be.

IMO

[PaulGilbert]

Originally Posted by wolvie2020

I think it's pretty cool for Cap to have these powers. Not only that, I think making him TOO powerful distorts the idea of who Cap is. He is what we should all be aspire to be... Take him too far with his powers, and he's no longer someone we can aspire to be.

IMO

I'd say I agree, but if they are to put him in confrontations with charecters that are infinatly more powerful and have him come out on top or as often hold his own he should have a power up because many of these things just seem too unbelievable.

[November Rain]

I think steve should retire when he gets back and only come out of service for hardcore events.

Captain america should be an idea rather than a person, the idea that one man can make a difference and be a representative to everyone out there to keep fighting.

[Steve Rogers]

What makes Cap so great is Steve Rogers and not the serum and powers. I love the fact that he uses his leadership skills and nother things that can not be learned or engrained by serum, radiation or some other cheap method. Cap is awesome because he is a super hero with out being all that super.

To give him superhuman abilities and have him rely on these would cheapen the character and really piss me off.

[November Rain]

what about giving him superpowers and still not have him rely on them

[PaulGilbert]

Originally Posted by November Rain

what about giving him superpowers and still not have him rely on them

He can still be 'Steve' with the same ideals but woulld realistically be able to compete with various others.

That way scenes like this can be avoided...Just one example of him being over-written.

[Steve Rogers]

Originally Posted by November Rain

what about giving him superpowers and still not have him rely on them

Why "give" him anything? If it ain't broke, don't fix it. That's the way I look it at. Other than this dude, I've never heard anyone complain that Cap needs more powers, so I don't think the general population has a problem with him. So, why change him? That's the way I look at it. I love how Steve is just a bad ass soldier. He's like Rambo with a shield. Sometimes gamma rays and thunder gods and star gods and all gets to be too much. My two favorite Marvel characters are Cap and Daredevil. I like them because their, as I said before, superheroes who aren't all that super.

[PaulGilbert]

Originally Posted by Steve Rogers

Why "give" him anything? If it ain't broke, don't fix it. That's the way I look it at. Other than this dude, I've never heard anyone complain that Cap needs more powers, so I don't think the general population has a problem with him. So, why change him? That's the way I look at it. I love how Steve is just a bad ass soldier. He's like Rambo with a shield. Sometimes gamma rays and thunder gods and star gods and all gets to be too much. My two favorite Marvel characters are Cap and Daredevil. I like them because their, as I said before, superheroes who aren't all that super.

Thats fine but then stick to Steve fighting lesser powered villains. Not have him laying The Hulk out...

[Steve Rogers]

Originally Posted by PaulGilbert

He can still be 'Steve' with the same ideals but woulld realistically be able to compete with various others.

That way scenes like this can be avoided...Just one example of him being over-written.

But that's who he is. That's the point. He'll go up against the Hulk with nothing but a shield, like the WWII infantryman who went up against Hitler's Atlantic Wall with nothing but an M-1.

[Steve Rogers]

Originally Posted by PaulGilbert

Thats fine but then stick to Steve fighting street level atleast. Not laying The Hulk out...

Why? He's a great leader and a hell of a tactician. He only gets into these huge cosmic fights with the Avengers now anyway. And, like a Captain, he's the leader and the strategist. Can Cap beat every villain one on one? No, but he can lead the overall assault and have the Avengers as a whole defeat any enemy they encounter.

[PaulGilbert]

Originally Posted by Steve Rogers

But that's who he is. That's the point. He'll go up against the Hulk with nothing but a shield, like the WWII infantryman who went up against Hitler's Atlantic Wall with nothing but an M-1.

Even in the realm of the Marvel universe that is pushing believibillity. A monster that often beats or stalemates beings like Thor and The Jugganaut being K.O'd by a human (which is just bad writing) could be avoided if Steve were given a power boost.

[Steve Rogers]

I don't what issue you are referring to, but other than the Ultimates I don't remember him KOing the Hulk. But regardless, the power is in the shield. Notice he doesn't hit him with his fists?

Not all fights are about stregnth. David and Goliath, my friend.

[PaulGilbert]

Originally Posted by Steve Rogers

I don't what issue you are referring to, but other than the Ultimates I don't remember him KOing the Hulk. But regardless, the power is in the shield. Notice he doesn't hit him with his fists?

Not all fights are about stregnth. David and Goliath, my friend.

David couldnt lay out Goliath with an upper-cut, lol.

Saying the power is in the shield doesnt fly. The power that apparently k.o'd the Hulk is in the force driving the shield, ie...Cap. At current power levels he would not have nearly enough strength to move the Hulk with a hit like that let alone send him reeling. He'd more likely brake his arm in trying...It could be compared to Batman having a fist fight with Superman. Not only this example either - cap has gone toe to toe with physically superior beings on numerous occasions, trading blows with meta-humans etc.

[Steve Rogers]

You're starting to sound like a Hulk fan boy who's pissed because the Hulk got beat by someone. What issue is this coming from? I have almost every Cap issue ever (not the expensive ones of course) and I don't recall this scene anywhere.

[November Rain]

i think it's a spidey issue

[Steve Rogers]

Originally Posted by November Rain

i think it's a spidey issue

Oh, so he's passing judgement on Captain America, based on something he read in Spider-Man.

[PaulGilbert]

Originally Posted by Steve Rogers

You're starting to sound like a Hulk fan boy who's pissed because the Hulk got beat by someone. What issue is this coming from? I have almost every Cap issue ever (not the expensive ones of course) and I don't recall this scene anywhere.

I like Cap ALOT - he's in my top 5 characters. You're the one sounding like a fanboy - immediatly pulling the 'fanboy' card . I suggest you scroll up if you want to see the example I've been using...There are countless more...

[KangConquers]

it's from Captain America, Fallen Son.

Yes it is overwriting Cap.

If Cap had taken down Hulk a different way, it might not have been so bad; Cap is the best fighter in all of marvel (at least out of A-list characters anyway) and the idea that he can take stronger beings down is not out of the question. The problem is this is the freaking Hulk...Cap would have to go Judo and use Hulk's own momentum against him to knock him out, rather than doing it like he was Thor.

[November Rain]

Originally Posted by Steve Rogers

Why "give" him anything? If it ain't broke, don't fix it. That's the way I look it at. Other than this dude, I've never heard anyone complain that Cap needs more powers, so I don't think the general population has a problem with him. So, why change him? That's the way I look at it. I love how Steve is just a bad ass soldier. He's like Rambo with a shield. Sometimes gamma rays and thunder gods and star gods and all gets to be too much. My two favorite Marvel characters are Cap and Daredevil. I like them because their, as I said before, superheroes who aren't all that super.

I don't mind cap being grounded but in specifically bad situations he should play more of a defensive role (with his shield) and strategise the others to do the offensive work. Kinda like eric in the 80s cartoon dungeons and dragons.



I don't mind him being brave enough to get stuck in but some of the feats he pulls off are damn near impossible.


As for the idea i gave, it's not essential but i do think it helps for potentially a story where cap loses his sense of uniqueness by getting a small power boost.

Other than that, it helped with his battles in ultimates where he can fight with the hulk, hold his own against a child spidey and also fight normal soldiers and not particularly stand out.

AT the very least provide him with defensive powers like increased endurance and low level invulnerability so there is reasoning behind him being able to take a bashing (apart from his shield).

[Steve Rogers]

Originally Posted by PaulGilbert

I like Cap ALOT - he's in my top 5 characters. You're the one sounding like a fanboy - immediatly pulling the 'fanboy' card . I suggest you scroll up if you want to see the example I've been using...There are countless more...

Um, I have scrolled up and I asked where you got that from. There are countless examples, huh? You know about them all and I don't? Who's the fanboy now?

[PaulGilbert]

Originally Posted by Steve Rogers

Um, I have scrolled up and I asked where you got that from. There are countless examples, huh? You know about them all and I don't? Who's the fanboy now?

KangConquers has already adressed where it is from. Thanks for playing though.....you did try .

Back to normal discussion.

As November said alot of Cap's feats seem completly impossible. I basically agree with everything she's said. I think a power boost, even if relitively small could validate alot of the over the top things Cap is somehow able to do against the 'bigger guns'.

[Steve Rogers]

Originally Posted by KangConquers

it's from Captain America, Fallen Son.

Yes it is overwriting Cap.

If Cap had taken down Hulk a different way, it might not have been so bad; Cap is the best fighter in all of marvel (at least out of A-list characters anyway) and the idea that he can take stronger beings down is not out of the question. The problem is this is the freaking Hulk...Cap would have to go Judo and use Hulk's own momentum against him to knock him out, rather than doing it like he was Thor.

Agreed, but initially this conversation was about something else entirely and had blossomed into I hate the fact that Cap beat the Hulk. Every time I come back into this thread there is a new picture added that wasn't there before. I don't know if that has something to do with the conncection. When I commented on it, the only picture I could see was the wide two page spread, which I didn't see as overwriting. But in all of Cap Vol. 2, 3, 4 and 5, he's not smacking gigantic monsters around. Has Cap been overwritten at times? Sure. Name one character that hasn't. But it's not a flaw in Cap's character; it's bad writing.

[Steve Rogers]

What up Kang, long time no see.

[Darthphere]

Good God, it's like those stupid lets give Batman powers already idea. No, and no.