Received an email with a link to Superman Sequel news... Enjoy (link inside)

[Ultimate_Superman]

Personally I don't even care anymore I just want to see a good Superman movie. I thought I got that with Superman Returns. I mean enjoyed that movie more then the Reeve's movies personally. I hope that we do get a sequel to that movie but if not I am fine with that just as long as they produce a movie that is IMO just as good or better then Superman Returns so I can say to myself "okay I see why they went this way instead of a sequel."

[Showtime]

I think the way some need to look at it, if a sequel is never made, is that some of you got the movie you wanted in Superman Returns. Even if Superman Returns never gets a sequel, Superman will still live on the big screen eventually in some other incarnation. Whether this is a reboot, a reorigin, or JLA.

[Ultimate_Superman]

Originally Posted by Showtime

I think the way some need to look at it, if a sequel is never made, is that some of you got the movie you wanted in Superman Returns. Even if Superman Returns never gets a sequel, Superman will still live on the big screen eventually in some other incarnation. Whether this is a reboot, a reorigin, or JLA.

I agree but my thing is don't put something on the screen just to put something on the screen Catwoman and Batman and Robin are good examples. I am just saying if they decide not to go with a sequel to Superman Returns then at least put up a movie just as good or better. Personally I could careless if we have a sequel to the movie I mean as I said before I thought it was a great movie and did enjoy it but at the same time I understand this is a business and the WB hoped to make more money then it did off of the movie. That being said as I stated before I don't mind if they don't make a sequel just as long as the reboot is just as good.

[nintendo nerd]

Originally Posted by Showtime

I think the way some need to look at it, if a sequel is never made, is that some of you got the movie you wanted in Superman Returns. Even if Superman Returns never gets a sequel, Superman will still live on the big screen eventually in some other incarnation. Whether this is a reboot, a reorigin, or JLA.

I know what you're saying. But if there's no SR sequel and JLA, we will pobrably have to wait more than 10 years to have another Superman movie. I really don't want that.

[DanSupKP37]

Originally Posted by nintendo nerd

I know what you're saying. But if there's no SR sequel and JLA, we will pobrably have to wait more than 10 years to have another Superman movie. I really don't want that.

Possibly yes 10 years or more. Plus no sequel to SR means whenever WB gets back going again they are putting themselves and whoever directs it in a very tough spot. The last time the franchise went to sleep was Superman 4 when it bombed to the tune of dreadful reviews and 15 mil at the BO. SR made over 200 mil and got good reviews, so a lot of questions needs to be answered when they try again.

What will the budget be? Does WB go for broke again or play it more safe.

What is considered a success to restart the franchise? If 200 mil did not cut it, what will?? What do they feel Superman is capable of at the BO and are their expectations realistic???

[Super Kal]

I really don't think they're gonna wait THAT long just for another movie... but I think they would wait a while before they consider a new movie, but if that what it takes to make Superman "Super" again, then I support it.

[Matt]

Originally Posted by DanSupKP37

Possibly yes 10 years or more. Plus no sequel to SR means whenever WB gets back going again they are putting themselves and whoever directs it in a very tough spot. The last time the franchise went to sleep was Superman 4 when it bombed to the tune of dreadful reviews and 15 mil at the BO. SR made over 200 mil and got good reviews, so a lot of questions needs to be answered when they try again.

What will the budget be? Does WB go for broke again or play it more safe.

What is considered a success to restart the franchise? If 200 mil did not cut it, what will?? What do they feel Superman is capable of at the BO and are their expectations realistic???

You cite Superman 4 as the precedent for your argument, but you have to keep in mind...Superman 4's budget was only 17 million dollars. So with a 15 million domestic gross, yes...it was a failure. However, SR had a budget of 250 million and grossed a little over 200 domestically. Financially, the two movies performed in a very similiar manner..

[DanSupKP37]

Originally Posted by Matt

You cite Superman 4 as the precedent for your argument, but you have to keep in mind...Superman 4's budget was only 17 million dollars. So with a 15 million domestic gross, yes...it was a failure. However, SR had a budget of 250 million and grossed a little over 200 domestically. Financially, the two movies performed in a very similiar manner..

The budget was 204 mil, Singer did not have the failed startup costs at his disposal and the real point is in regards to the films gross. Any Superman movie is bound to be expensive and what are the realistic expectations for a Superman movie?? Would you not agree that it is a bit of a risk to assume you can reboot and do far better than almost 400 mil WW, no sweat???

[nintendo nerd]

Originally Posted by Matt

You cite Superman 4 as the precedent for your argument, but you have to keep in mind...Superman 4's budget was only 17 million dollars. So with a 15 million domestic gross, yes...it was a failure. However, SR had a budget of 250 million and grossed a little over 200 domestically. Financially, the two movies performed in a very similiar manner..

But SR made almost 200 million outside the states. Which helped a lot. But is it true, studios receive less money from the BO outside America?

Plus, the SR DVD, although it wasn't a huge hit, I'm pretty sure it's helping.

[nintendo nerd]

Originally Posted by Super Kal

I really don't think they're gonna wait THAT long just for another movie... but I think they would wait a while before they consider a new movie, but if that what it takes to make Superman "Super" again, then I support it.

That could be true. But for example, what they are doing with THE INCREDIBLE HULK,IMO is a mistake. They should've waited a little longer. I think people still have the bad taste of the first film. Marvel should have started with a new franchise: CAPTAIN AMERICA, THOR, etc.

[Matt]

Originally Posted by DanSupKP37

The budget was 204 mil, Singer did not have the failed startup costs at his disposal and the real point is in regards to the films gross. Any Superman movie is bound to be expensive and what are the realistic expectations for a Superman movie?? Would you not agree that it is a bit of a risk to assume you can reboot and do far better than almost 400 mil WW, no sweat???

250 is the budget when you factor in marketing. 275 is closer to when you have the start up costs. I'd say a realistic expectation of a reboot is at least 250 domestic. Superman is one of our country's biggest pop-culture phenoms. I don't believe advertisment killed SR. Look at the first weekend. 52 million. Considering it opened on a Wednesday, make it 76 million for the first five days. That is pretty damn impressive. Is it Spider-Man? No. But it is certainly a good start on the way to 250. And then, the second weekend, a shocking thing happened. The movie PLUNGED...59 %. Nearly 60 % is not a good decrease for second weekend. Sure, you can argue Pirates came out...but it shouldn't have taken that big of a hit. Do you know why it did? Because the movie had absolutely no action at all. It was boring, melo-dramatic, and too long. Pirates or no, 60 % drop implies bad word of mouth. After all, if it had gotten good word of mouth, it wouldn't have inched its way to 200. If Pirates alone were what hurt it, it would've recovered the following weekend, but oh no. Weekend 3, 45 % drop. 40 % drop in weekend 4, and 50 % drop in weekend 5. That my friend, implies HORRIBLE WOM. A Superman movie done right can easily pull in 250, even 300.

[DanSupKP37]

Originally Posted by nintendo nerd

But SR made almost 200 million outside the states. Which helped a lot. But is it true, studios receive less money from the BO outside America?

I just don't see any evidence that tells me that Superman is viewed as unique or special in the eyes of the Gen public. I mean just looking at the comic movies of recent years.

Fantastic Four 1 and 2
X-Men, X2 and X3
Ghost Rider
The Hulk
Batman Begins
Superman Returns

Superman, Batman and the X-men movies when you average it all out, are right in line with eachother at the BO, with those other flicks a bit behind. Spiderman is the only franchise with an iconic comic book character that has raked in the big bucks of recent memory. I think the public sees Superman and Batman in a similiar light these days, hence their BO being about the same.

[Matt]

Originally Posted by nintendo nerd

But SR made almost 200 million outside the states. Which helped a lot. But is it true, studios receive less money from the BO outside America?

Yes, it did. But again, not as profitable. Also, 200 million is not that good for a foreign box office. Other blockbusters' foreign gross that came out around the same time as SR:

Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire: $606,003,123
Pirates of the Caribbean: Dead Man's Chest: $642,863,913
Casino Royale: $426,793,106
Spider-Man 2: $410,180,516
Superman Returns: 191,000,000

SR's foreign box office is not impressive in the least.

Plus, the SR DVD, although it wasn't a huge hit, I'm pretty sure it's helping.

Too little, too late.

[nintendo nerd]

Originally Posted by DanSupKP37

I just don't see any evidence that tells me that Superman is viewed as unique or special in the eyes of the Gen public. I mean just looking at the comic movies of recent years.

Fantastic Four 1 and 2
X-Men, X2 and X3
Ghost Rider
The Hulk
Batman Begins
Superman Returns

Superman, Batman and the X-men movies when you average it all out, are right in line with eachother at the BO, with those other flicks a bit behind. Spiderman is the only franchise with an iconic comic book character that has raked in the big bucks of recent memory. I think the public sees Superman and Batman in a similiar light these days, hence their BO being about the same.

But B&R was still very fresh in people's mind. That's why BB didn't do better at the BO. I'm pretty sure TDK will make more than $300 million ( maybe more cause of Ledger's death).

I'm almost sure SR would have made more if it had a Super Villian fighting Supes destroying half of Metropolis. We didn't see Superman doing that, and most of the people certainly were expecting that.

[Matt]

Originally Posted by DanSupKP37

I just don't see any evidence that tells me that Superman is viewed as unique or special in the eyes of the Gen public. I mean just looking at the comic movies of recent years.

Fantastic Four 1 and 2
X-Men, X2 and X3
Ghost Rider
The Hulk
Batman Begins
Superman Returns

Superman, Batman and the X-men movies when you average it all out, are right in line with eachother at the BO, with those other flicks a bit behind. Spiderman is the only franchise with an iconic comic book character that has raked in the big bucks of recent memory. I think the public sees Superman and Batman in a similiar light these days, hence their BO being about the same.

Batman has an entirely different demographic. Superman is a world renowned icon. There is not an adult or child who does not know who Superman is. The same could not be said about the X-Men, Ghost Rider, or Fantastic Four. Even the Hulk.

[nintendo nerd]

Originally Posted by Matt

Yes, it did. But again, not as profitable. Also, 200 million is not that good for a foreign box office. Other blockbusters' foreign gross that came out around the same time as SR:

Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire: $606,003,123
Pirates of the Caribbean At World's End:$642,863,913
Casino Royale: $426,793,106
Spider-Man 2: $410,180,516
Superman Returns: 191,000,000

SR's foreign box office is not impressive in the least.



Too little, too late.

Oh yeah, I totally agree. I think 200 million was kind of small for such an iconic character as Superman. I was expecting $ 500 - 550 million worldwide. The truth is, it was very far from it.

[DanSupKP37]

Originally Posted by Matt

250 is the budget when you factor in marketing. 275 is closer to when you have the start up costs.

Marketing is not put in the same category as the budget, by that logic Batman Begins had a budget of 250 mil since WB reportedly spent close to a 100 mil marketing that.

Originally Posted by Matt

I'd say a realistic expectation of a reboot is at least 250 domestic. Superman is one of our country's biggest pop-culture phenoms. I don't believe advertisment killed SR. Look at the first weekend. 52 million. Considering it opened on a Wednesday, make it 76 million for the first five days. That is pretty damn impressive. Is it Spider-Man? No. But it is certainly a good start on the way to 250. And then, the second weekend, a shocking thing happened. The movie PLUNGED...59 %. Nearly 60 % is not a good decrease for second weekend. Sure, you can argue Pirates came out...but it shouldn't have taken that big of a hit. Do you know why it did? Because the movie had absolutely no action at all. It was boring, melo-dramatic, and too long. Pirates or no, 60 % drop implies bad word of mouth. After all, if it had gotten good word of mouth, it wouldn't have inched its way to 200. If Pirates alone were what hurt it, it would've recovered the following weekend, but oh no. Weekend 3, 45 % drop. 40 % drop in weekend 4, and 50 % drop in weekend 5. That my friend, implies HORRIBLE WOM. A Superman movie done right can easily pull in 250, even 300.

I think SR had a shot at 250 mil, a lot less of a shot with Pirates crashing it's party in it's 2nd week but a shot. I don't agree that SR had bad WOM but lets assume that as you say it did. Now WB has to factor that into any equation involving a reboot. If that formula applies to Batman Begins and it not making more money because of Batman and Robin, then guess what any Superman reboot will fall into the same category. Having to overcome the stigma of a mediocre film that came before it.

[DanSupKP37]

Originally Posted by Matt

Batman has an entirely different demographic. Superman is a world renowned icon. There is not an adult or child who does not know who Superman is. The same could not be said about the X-Men, Ghost Rider, or Fantastic Four. Even the Hulk.

Easy to say this, a lot harder to back it up. What proof has there been at the BO really since Superman 2 that he is beloved in regards to his films??You know that Superman 2 got spanked at the BO by the likes of Raiders of the Lost Ark and even got beat by on Golden Pond. Since then Superman has dealt with the mediocre BO of Superman 3, the flopping BO of Superman 4 and the good but not great BO of SR. I keep hearing how iconic Superman is but i see little proof of it at the BO, post 1978.

[nintendo nerd]

Originally Posted by DanSupKP37

Easy to say this, a lot harder to back it up. What proof has there been at the BO really since Superman 2 that he is beloved in regards to his films??You know that Superman 2 got spanked at the BO by the likes of Raiders of the Lost Ark and even got beat by on Golden Pond. Since then Superman has dealt with the mediocre BO of Superman 3, the flopping BO of Superman 4 and the good but not great BO of SR. I keep hearing how iconic Superman is but i see little proof of it at the BO, post 1978.

Because the quality of STM , is way superior than the ones of Superman 2, 3, 4 and even Returns. The other day I saw STM and Superman II, and there's no comparison. IMO, Superman 2 is horrible.

If WB can make something as revolutionary as STM was in 1978. The BO will be huge.

[DanSupKP37]

Originally Posted by nintendo nerd

Because the quality of STM , is way superior than the ones of Superman 2, 3, 4 and even Returns. The other day I saw STM and Superman II, and there's no comparison. IMO, Superman 2 is horrible.

If WB can make something as revolutionary as STM was in 1978. The BO will be huge.

Possibly but the question remains about the stigma of those less then stellar attempts at Superman films. With every attempt that fails to wow the public they typically become more and more skepticle the next time out. Superman 2 also received fantasic reviews for it's time and had tons of buzz going for it. That did not stop Raiders from stomping all over it though. I just don't think Superman is as popular as some seem to. Sure everyone knows who he is but that does not mean they are dying to see him in a new movie. There is a difference between being known and being popular.

[BatBruce]

Originally Posted by DanSupKP37

You know that Superman 2 got spanked at the BO by the likes of Raiders of the Lost Ark .

Um, they didnt even come out the same year. Superman 2 was 1980 and Raiders was 1981

[DanSupKP37]

Originally Posted by BatBruce

Um, they didnt even come out the same year. Superman 2 was 1980 and Raiders was 1981

http://www.boxofficemojo.com/yearly/...yr=1981&p=.htm

Ilya Salkind even Blamed Raiders for Superman 2 not making as much as one.

[nintendo nerd]

Originally Posted by DanSupKP37

Possibly but the question remains about the stigma of those less then stellar attempts at Superman films. With every attempt that fails to wow the public they typically become more and more skepticle the next time out. Superman 2 also received fantasic reviews for it's time and had tons of buzz going for it. That did not stop Raiders from stomping all over it though. I just don't think Superman is as popular as some seem to. Sure everyone knows who he is but that does not mean they are dying to see him in a new movie. There is a difference between being known and being popular.

Dude, everyone knows Superman. He has the greatest powers of a Super hero. With the FX of right now, they can do awesome things with him. I love SR, but it missed a lot of the potential of his Super powers.

I love Routh as Superman, and most of the cast. I just wanted to see an angry Superman kick some Super villians butt. The fight with the Kryptonians in Superman 2 was terrible and campy. There's even a shot of Reeve laughing, because of how ridiculous it was.

I want a fight like the ones in Spider - man 2 and 3. It can be done.

[BatBruce]

The main problem box office wise with SR was it was the wrong time. WB and Singer looked at the situation of superhero films being big at the box office and thought "oh well superman is the biggest icon in comics so a movie with him would be huge!" If they had really done any research they would have found that TRAGIC superheroes(spidey, x-men, batman) were big. Most people's perception (and problem with) of superman is that he's perfect in every way and has no problems. The movie going audience right now don't want flawless heroes like that.

[nintendo nerd]

Originally Posted by BatBruce

The main problem box office wise with SR was it was the wrong time. WB and Singer looked at the situation of superhero films being big at the box office and thought "oh well superman is the biggest icon in comics so a movie with him would be huge!" If they had really done any research they would have found that TRAGIC superheroes(spidey, x-men, batman) were big. Most people's perception (and problem with) of superman is that he's perfect in every way and has no problems. The movie going audience right now don't want flawless heroes like that.

But Superman had a lot of flaws. He left Lois because it was hard for him to say goodbye. He lost 5 years of his life on his trip to Krypton just to find nothing. He didn't know he had a son. He had to realize the world needs a Superman.

Again, the problem with Superman RETURNS, wasn't the kid, Richard or Bosworth looking like a 15 year old. It was the lack of action and fun, people expect to see on a Superman movie.