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Old 09-28-2014, 05:04 AM   #1
Goshdarn Batman
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Default State your unpopular Batman related opinion

Got any unpopular opinions about the caped crusader? It could be the movies, the comic books (overrated stories, writers, popular artists you don't like), the animated series, toys or Batman as a character. Here's my list (I'll probably add more later):

1. This is probably one of my biggest problems with Batman; he's the master of all martial arts known to man. I'm sorry, but "that's a lot of fish"! it's impossible. Do they even know how much work it takes to master just one style? I think it would have been better if Batman mastered two or three martial arts (karate, judo and krav maga or something), and knew a few moves from the rest.

2. Batman comics were better and more interesting before. The new stuff is just ugly and unappealing. Batman punching Dick Grayson? Joker cutting off his own face? Skinning people alive? And this is supposed to be "adult"? No, it's "15 year old boy drawing penises and dirty words on public toilet walls".

I don't know when they started to decline in quality, but it was probably in the late eighties or early nineties?

3. I don't like the modern psycho-Batman. It's like they're trying to outdo Frank Miller...I don't mind it in The Dark Knight Returns, but I don't want the "regular" Batman to be that way.

"Batman should never, ever kill! He's no better than the badguys if he does that...he should just torture his enemies, break some bones or cripple them for life!"

The ideal Batman for me is how he's portrayed in Batman: The Animated Series, he's dark and serious, but acts like a hero. Even the gory comics by Alan Grant and Norm Breyfogle potrayed Batman as a heroic character.

4. Catwoman's classic costume (purple, green cape, long hair) looks better than the new one. I think the new one is boring.

5. The batsymbol looks better with a yellow oval behind it.

6. Grant Morrison's Arkham Asylum is boring, ugly and pretentious. One of the worst Batman stories I have read. But most of Morrison's Batman stuff is bad.

7. I don't think Year One is the best origin story. Don't get me wrong, I love the story...but I prefer Len Wein's "The Untold Story of Batman".

8. I don't think Ben Affleck is a bad choice for Batman, but I believe he's in the wrong kind of Batman movie. Looks like we're going to get Frank Miller's scary old fart in tights on the big screen. As a eleven year old, this would have been a dream come true...today, it's just sad.

I wish Snyder could grow up...women with guns, dressed up as schoolgirls? Naked guys with big muscles, yelling a lot? Mass civilian deaths? "Badass" psychopaths? "Cool" slow motion fight scenes with lots of gore? Unnecessary and cheesy sex scenes?

9. There should never be a Batman movie rated R, with graphic violence, profanity and sex scenes. Watch "Mask of the Phantasm". It's the best Batman movie out there...dark, serious, scary, romantic, tragic, action packed, and it's rated PG.

One of the things I love about Nolan is how he deals with violence in his Batman trilogy. We never really see the gruesome stuff, it happens off-screen. But we still think the pencil scene is horrific (I actually think the pool cue scene is worse. I'm glad we didn't see what happened there). We don't need to see blood spurt everywhere, or Batman's naked butt when he's rolling on the floor with Talia.

10. I hope someone will make a "lighter" Batman movie in the future. I'm not talking about Batman & Robin 2: The Case of the Missing Rubber Butt, but I imagine something like the Iron Man movies. A fun action-adventure movie with OTT action, villains like Man- Bat or Clayface, giant props and a healthy dose of humor. Keep the blue and gray costume!

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Old 09-28-2014, 10:52 AM   #2
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Default Re: State your unpopular Batman related opinion

Batman: The Brave and the Bold is the best Batman cartoon series.

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Old 09-28-2014, 12:30 PM   #3
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I don't think your opinions are that controversial these days, Goshdarn Batman.

Except maybe point 10.

Perhaps my "controversial" opinions:

1. Modern Joker sucks. Ever since TKJ (a Joker with regrets?) and Death In The Family (a Joker who does not even act in any way like the traditional Joker) he has been ruined.

2. Bludhaven sucks.

3. Tim Drake is the most uninteresting Robin ever.

4. No, The Riddler should NOT be some sort of SAW-/Seven-styled psychopath

5. No, Mad Hatter is not a pedophile

6. Penguin is NOT a freak who eats raw fish

7. Alfred raising Bruce Wayne is boring

8. Bronze Age Batman is mostly cheesy and boring

9. Classic Batman died shortly before the Silver Age and has NOT been back ever since

10. Kelley Jones cannot draw

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Old 09-28-2014, 12:36 PM   #4
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1. Modern Joker sucks.
He does.

Quote:
3. Tim Drake is the most uninteresting Robin ever.
I don't hate Tim Drake, but Dick Grayson is the best Robin.

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4. No, The Riddler should NOT be some sort of SAW-/Seven-styled psychopath

5. No, Mad Hatter is not a pedophile

6. Penguin is NOT a freak who eats raw fish
True!

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7. Alfred raising Bruce Wayne is boring
I'm not sure, I don't mind it too much, but I love how it was in the older comics. I think I prefer that.

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Old 09-28-2014, 12:37 PM   #5
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Batman: The Brave and the Bold is the best Batman cartoon series.
Not my favorite Batman cartoon, but it sure is awesome! The "babymen" were wrong.

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Old 09-28-2014, 01:12 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by Goshdarn Batman View Post
Got any unpopular opinions about the caped crusader? It could be the movies, the comic books (overrated stories, writers, popular artists you don't like), the animated series, toys or Batman as a character. Here's my list (I'll probably add more later):

1. This is probably one of my biggest problems with Batman; he's the master of all martial arts known to man. I'm sorry, but "that's a lot of fish"! it's impossible. Do they even know how much work it takes to master just one style? I think it would have been better if Batman mastered two or three martial arts (karate, judo and krav maga or something), and knew a few moves from the rest.
I agree. It doesn't bother me in the comics but that's why i prefer Nolan's take in live-action. He doesn't seem to be the worlds greatest ninja in every style of martial arts. But he's probably a master in a few, and knows enough about the rest. I'd like to add that i find it a bit annoying that Batman is also the Sherlock Holmes of the world. He's apparently so intelligent that it's as if he has the highest IQ, can build anything and figure out anything....all while being the master at every style in martial arts. It's a bit much to swallow when you're trying to sell me on the idea that he's a relatable human being. Again, this is why i dont mind in some versions where they tone everything down a few notches. He can be intelligent, a great detective and one of the best martial artists to have ever lived...but let's not get carried away with his intellect or fighting skills or how creative he is. Then it gets to a point where he's practically superhuman, a Bat-God if you will, and i just dont care for that interpretation.

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2. Batman comics were better and more interesting before. The new stuff is just ugly and unappealing. Batman punching Dick Grayson? Joker cutting off his own face? Skinning people alive? And this is supposed to be "adult"? No, it's "15 year old boy drawing penises and dirty words on public toilet walls".

I don't know when they started to decline in quality, but it was probably in the late eighties or early nineties?
Late 80s-early 90s? I have to disagree. More like when it hit the 21st century. I do agree with what you say about the ugliness. It's not very interesting to me, well, at least the things you list aren't.

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3. I don't like the modern psycho-Batman. It's like they're trying to outdo Frank Miller...I don't mind it in The Dark Knight Returns, but I don't want the "regular" Batman to be that way.

"Batman should never, ever kill! He's no better than the badguys if he does that...he should just torture his enemies, break some bones or cripple them for life!"

The ideal Batman for me is how he's portrayed in Batman: The Animated Series, he's dark and serious, but acts like a hero. Even the gory comics by Alan Grant and Norm Breyfogle potrayed Batman as a heroic character.
I dont think he should cripple them for life, that to me is almost as bad as killing them. I do however like that he would break their bones.

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5. The batsymbol looks better with a yellow oval behind it.
Meh. I seriously don't care. That may be a bold statement to make on my part but i really dont care if the yellow symbol is there or not.

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6. Grant Morrison's Arkham Asylum is boring, ugly and pretentious. One of the worst Batman stories I have read. But most of Morrison's Batman stuff is bad.
I wouldn't say boring but im in the minority in saying that it's pretentious and not exactly my Batman. Im also not really a fan of Grant Morrison. I find him overrated.

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8. I don't think Ben Affleck is a bad choice for Batman, but I believe he's in the wrong kind of Batman movie. Looks like we're going to get Frank Miller's scary old fart in tights on the big screen. As a eleven year old, this would have been a dream come true...today, it's just sad.

I wish Snyder could grow up...women with guns, dressed up as schoolgirls? Naked guys with big muscles, yelling a lot? Mass civilian deaths? "Badass" psychopaths? "Cool" slow motion fight scenes with lots of gore? Unnecessary and cheesy sex scenes?
Women can't use guns? Dressed up as schoolgirls, yeah that's immature, i agree. The muscle fetish is a little irritating. Slow motion, yeah, i can go on about Snyder and his style over substance mentality, even if he thinks he's putting some substance in.

Affleck though? First off, he's not in tights lol. Ben is a fantastic choice for Batman, but we'll see if Josh Brolin was a better one for Zack's interpretation. Because Ben may not fit the bill.

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9. There should never be a Batman movie rated R, with graphic violence, profanity and sex scenes. Watch "Mask of the Phantasm". It's the best Batman movie out there...dark, serious, scary, romantic, tragic, action packed, and it's rated PG.

One of the things I love about Nolan is how he deals with violence in his Batman trilogy. We never really see the gruesome stuff, it happens off-screen. But we still think the pencil scene is horrific (I actually think the pool cue scene is worse. I'm glad we didn't see what happened there). We don't need to see blood spurt everywhere, or Batman's naked butt when he's rolling on the floor with Talia.
I wouldn't say never. I think it could be different, but it doesnt NEED to happen. I definitely agree that it's better to not see all the gore.

To add some of my own:

I love Batman: The Animated Series and think in some ways it's the best version. But only in doses. Overall, i think the series is quite overrated, childish, and full of filler even though the actual animation was great. It's an opinion that ill probably get killed for. Im an adult now, and i can appreciate it from time to time but the childish tone doesn't exactly mesh with who i am as a man. Then again i dont watch cartoons or animation nowadays.

I think Kevin Conroy is great but overrated at the same time. The tone of his voice is perfect but when he tries to get angry or emotional, i find it sounds like the worst soap opera acting ive ever heard in my life. Again, ill probably get killed for saying that. As great as he is, i dont think he's the be-all, end-all of Batman voices from now to eternity.

Hmmm..more unpopular opinions. Batman Forever is a better movie and more Batman than Batman Returns.

No problem with the stories but i dont like the way Alex Ross draws Batman. Not sure if that's a popular or unpopular opinion. They're not wearing pyjamas Ross!

I prefer Gotham to be a place without monsters. Everyone seems to love the horror interpretation or want it mixed with other genres so they can also have their Clayfaces, Killer Crocs, Man-Bats, etc. But i dont find any of those villains interesting at all. Quite stupid looking and feel more like Spider-Man villains than Batman. I think it defeats the purpose of Batman trying to clean up crime in Gotham if he's then distracted by aliens or monsters...for me it changes the whole meaning of why Batman is doing this in the first place. And it's not just an argument about "escalation". I think it takes it too far away from the essence.

I dont like Batman having sidekicks for too long, Robin or whoever. It takes the focus away from the Batman-Gordon relationship and puts the emphasis on him with Robin instead. It also makes Batman weak. I can't tell you how many stories or shows ive read/seen where Batman has to compromise the mission at hand because he has to save the little bastard. Or because rookie Robin f'd up...or because Bruce is getting emotionally attached to Dick, and so he does something that puts himself or the mission in jeopardy.

Damien Wayne is horrible.

The Killing Joke has some great stuff but it's mainly B.S. Moments where they're trying to tell an origin or make him sympathetic. F that.

Mad Hatter is a garbage character. (maybe that's not so unpopular? lol).

Riddler isn't as interesting as people make him out to be. No he shouldn't be a hipster hiding behind a computer, hacking people. No he shouldn't be a psychopath straight out of Saw. No.

Burton's version of Penguin is terrible and his Catwoman wasn't far off.

I prefer Hathaway's Catwoman to Pfeiffer's.

I love the batgrowl even though most hate it.


Last edited by shauner111; 09-28-2014 at 01:25 PM.
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Old 09-28-2014, 01:27 PM   #7
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Default Re: State your unpopular Batman related opinion

Not sure if these are unpopular, but I don't see them said very often;

- Adam West's Batman is the most faithful adaptation of Batman, along with Conroy's

- Burgess Meredith is the best Penguin

- Arkham Origins is the best Batman portrayal from the Arkham series

- I hate psycho b*tch Talia in the recent years of the comics

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Old 09-28-2014, 02:07 PM   #8
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Mad Hatter is a garbage character. (maybe that's not so unpopular? lol).

Well, the question is rather: which one?. I am not talking about Mad Hatter I or II or something, there is just no real constant characterization to him.

But that is true for many Batman villains, e.g. Poison Ivy. To this day they have no really made it clear whether she is some sort of mad environmentalist, man-hater, batman groupie, sadistic murderess, common robber, anti-hero, lesbian, asexual... whatever... All over the place.

This comes out of the fact that before "Batman TAS" hit the screen most villains were not overly well-defined to begin with. There motiviation was often just money and that was it. Then they started to incorporate lots of stuff from TAS and "grim n gritty"...

It is a mess. IMO characters like the Mad Hatter do not even have an origin story to this day.

Another opinion from me:

1. Pre-Crisis Jason Todd was a good character

2. The post-crisis Jason Todd concept is the best rationalization for a Robin yet... execution lacked, though.

3. I prefer Gordon to be old, about the same age Bruce father would have been.

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Old 09-28-2014, 02:10 PM   #9
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He can be intelligent, a great detective and one of the best martial artists to have ever lived...but let's not get carried away with his intellect or fighting skills or how creative he is. Then it gets to a point where he's practically superhuman, a Bat-God if you will, and i just dont care for that interpretation.


It almost makes him more unrealistic than Superman.

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I dont think he should cripple them for life, that to me is almost as bad as killing them. I do however like that he would break their bones.
It was a joke some people crap their pants if Batman kills, but are fine with crippling and torture. I'm not a fan of either...but I like Burton's movies, though.

Quote:
Women can't use guns? Dressed up as schoolgirls, yeah that's immature, i agree. The muscle fetish is a little irritating. Slow motion, yeah, i can go on about Snyder and his style over substance mentality, even if he thinks he's putting some substance in.
Yes they can but I think Sucker Punch is based on Snyder's private "fantasies". And the muscle stuff is like the scene from Predator (the handshake) on steroids. Clark Kent's abs, anyone?

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Hmmm..more unpopular opinions. Batman Forever is a better movie and more Batman than Batman Returns.
I don't know if I like Batman Forever more than Returns, but I think it's awesome. I don't get all the hate.

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Damien Wayne is horrible.
Yes, he is. Annoying little brat.

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Old 09-28-2014, 02:23 PM   #10
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I'm not sure, I don't mind it too much, but I love how it was in the older comics. I think I prefer that.

Snarky Al annoys me these days. I prefer him to be a loyal "partner in crime".

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Old 09-28-2014, 02:40 PM   #11
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Not sure if these are unpopular, but I don't see them said very often;

- Adam West's Batman is the most faithful adaptation of Batman, along with Conroy's
You're right about that.

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Snarky Al annoys me these days. I prefer him to be a loyal "partner in crime".
I know what you mean, I like it when Alfred discovers that Bruce Wayne is Batman, but keeps his mouth shut.

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Old 09-28-2014, 03:05 PM   #12
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Well, the question is rather: which one?. I am not talking about Mad Hatter I or II or something, there is just no real constant characterization to him.

But that is true for many Batman villains, e.g. Poison Ivy. To this day they have no really made it clear whether she is some sort of mad environmentalist, man-hater, batman groupie, sadistic murderess, common robber, anti-hero, lesbian, asexual... whatever... All over the place.

This comes out of the fact that before "Batman TAS" hit the screen most villains were not overly well-defined to begin with. There motiviation was often just money and that was it. Then they started to incorporate lots of stuff from TAS and "grim n gritty"...

It is a mess. IMO characters like the Mad Hatter do not even have an origin story to this day.

Another opinion from me:

1. Pre-Crisis Jason Todd was a good character

2. The post-crisis Jason Todd concept is the best rationalization for a Robin yet... execution lacked, though.

3. I prefer Gordon to be old, about the same age Bruce father would have been.
I hate ALL Mad Hatters.

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Old 09-28-2014, 03:46 PM   #13
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I like the Animated version of Mad Hatter. Don't care much about the comic book version, but I like the story about the "fake" Hatter in one of those Mike W. Barr/Alan Davis stories. It was fun.

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Old 09-28-2014, 04:38 PM   #14
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11. I don't like the steroid-abusing Bathulk with manboobs and biceps bigger than my fat head. It looks extremely stupid with bodybuilders in tights. He doesn't need to be that big...

12. Batman should just get a real girlfriend. It would make him much cooler in my eyes.

13. The new movie Batmobile doesn't look very good.

14. The Batman stories from the fifties are good. I like Bat-Mite, Ace the Bathound, Batwoman and Batgirl. I wish DC could reprint more of them.

15. Batman and Superman fighting? No thanks. I like it better when they're pals.

16. The Dark Knight Rises is good.

17. I like Batman & Robin. Good adaptation of the 50's Batman/60's show.

18. I don't care about rubber nipples, but the bat-butts are truly disturbing. And the scary "dildo"-thing on Bane's chest.

19. Batman: The Cult is pretty bad.

20. Dark Knight Dynasty is good, except for the third and last story.

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Old 09-28-2014, 04:59 PM   #15
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^Number 11, 16, 18 i totally agree with.

The rest i dont. Except for 20 cuz i haven't read that.

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Old 09-28-2014, 07:24 PM   #16
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Another two:

I do not agree that showing the Joker's origin would be a bad thing. Batman 89 worked perfectly with it and so would the comics (actually until TKJ we knew his real origin...)

Batman should sit down in Gordon's office.


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Old 09-28-2014, 07:28 PM   #17
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I liked the fights in Batman Begins.

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Old 09-28-2014, 07:43 PM   #18
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Batman's supporting cast and rogue's gallery are far more interesting than he is.

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Old 09-28-2014, 08:39 PM   #19
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Batman's supporting cast and rogue's gallery are far more interesting than he is.
Ummmm no.

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Old 09-28-2014, 08:40 PM   #20
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16. The Dark Knight Rises is good.
That's not an unpopular opinion.

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Batman should sit down in Gordon's office.
Lol Adam West's Batman used to do that.

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Old 09-28-2014, 09:24 PM   #21
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Alright, this is the perfect thread for everyone to let it out .

Off the top of my head:

1. I think Batman as we know him begins in 1971 with the Danny O'Neil stuff. There's some Golden Age stuff I like prior to that but as a whole, I don't like most of the 40's/50's/60's stuff, especially the Silver Age. In fact, I think DC's Silver Age as a whole is very juvenile and dumbed down. To me, Batman begins with O'Neil in the same way X-Men begins with Claremont to the X-buffs. That being said, I can still enjoy the 60's show due to nostalgia and depending on my mood.

2. As others have said, I hate the way so many artists draw Batman nowadays. The big bodybuilder look is extremely ugly and doesn't fit the character at all. I prefer the more lean look of the pre-90's.

3. Black bulky leather/armor is even worse. I still facepalm at the movies for going that route and even more at the weak arguments for it.

4. Batman is a larger-than-life concept that can't exist in real life. Which I like, but I don't buy for a second Bruce achieved all that simply by having "teh willz". Obviously the indomitable will is a big part of Batman, but someone who becomes the world's greatest detective and can take on Superman had to have been born a genius, no matter what way you look at it, realism or not. Why is it no one's ever explored that past Bruce reading some Holmes stories as a kid? Not even the reimaginings like Earth One (haven't read Zero Year yet so I can't comment). You see Peter Parker and Tony Stark's intellects displayed way before their origin story is even triggered but with Batman, little to nothing.

5. Catwoman is a good character, but the most overrated love interest ever. I hate the Bruce/Selina shippers who constantly insist Selina is "the one", while ignoring just-as-good/better love interests. Especially those that try to rewrite history, since in the grand scheme of things, Selina being "the one" is a relatively new idea that's 2-3 decades old tops. You go back as early as the 70's and Talia + Silver St. Cloud were more important.

6. Hate Miller's psychotic right wing extremist Batman, as others have said. It worked great in Returns, but it really bugs me how so many people get the idea that's what Batman is/should be. In my eyes, Batman is arguably the most apolitical superhero. He's all about balance and should have the right balance between all methods, in a way no other superhero does. Which brings me to my next point...

7. Hate a lot of JLA stories with Batman in them. I hate how they demonize Batman or make Superman/the League antagonistic towards him. A lot of the times writers act like he's the Punisher. The idea that he is this complete jackass who can't understand human emotion and crosses the line "so darn much" isn't true at all if you read most Batman comics. And when you think about it, Batman isn't that dark of a character. Most of the Avengers are arguably darker. He may have different methods than Superman, but they share the same morals and worldview. Both have an idealistic mindset on how to operate and believe they can permanently change the world for the better. When Superman gives a speech on the importance of not killing, Batman is the one who should understand that the most. Batman actually gets more criticism on average for not going far enough than for the former. A big part of the Batman/Joker dynamic is Batman sees the good in others while the Joker believes anyone can go crazy and turn on one another with the slightest push. Sure, he has some brooding figures and sells himself as a much darker figure, but ultimately very few have the heart Bruce Wayne does.

8. I think Freeze needs a new origin. The current one is great, but you can't use it more than a handful of times max. At some point, you seriously have to question why Bruce doesn't just fund the guy's research to cure his wife and get rid of a villain for good. I think Scott Snyder recently updated it a bit to a point you can use it long-term. The idea that he's obsessed with a woman who he thinks is his wife allowed the character to exist for more than just a few story arcs IMO, despite many people not caring for it.

9. I'm not too fond of Dick Grayson as Robin. I find his original characterization as Robin to be two-dimensional and with every Robin stereotype in the book. Of course, this is mainly due to Dick having already become Nightwing by the time DC started writing their characters less generic, but I think that's why so many retellings/reimaginings of Dick as Robin either write him like Nightwing or pretend he is Tim Drake.

10a. Batman '89 is overrated. Too dull and with not much depth. It's not a bad film, but I don't get the "ZOMG THIS IS A CLASSIC AND ONE OF BEST CBM'S!" mania either.
10b. Batman Forever is the best of the old franchise IMO. Still not exactly an exceptional or deep film, but I feel it's the deepest of the 4 while also being the most fun. Then again, it's the one I saw the most as a kid so maybe I'm biased.

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Old 09-29-2014, 12:00 AM   #22
Brother Jack
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Default Re: State your unpopular Batman related opinion

Batman Forever is worse than Batman & Robin. B&R is an objectively worse movie but it's much more fun to watch, and by watch I mean make fun of. Forever is just frustrating because it could have been really good and instead gets swallowed up by the neon, the Joker ripoffs that were the villains, and so on and so forth. There are a few great moments in it (everything involving the giant bat); if only the whole film had been that way.

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Old 09-29-2014, 12:39 AM   #23
Jason Kane
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Default Re: State your unpopular Batman related opinion

Damian sucks!

Letting Jim Starlin write Batman is like giving a baby a flame thrower

Babs can still be usefull as Oracle crippled or not

I miss Orpheus

Loathe Batwing and all of Batman Inc.

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Old 09-29-2014, 03:51 AM   #24
AnneFan
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Default Re: State your unpopular Batman related opinion

- Batman Returns is the best Batman film of the 89-97 era by some margin.
- Beware The Batman was fine and should have received another season or two.
- Arkham Origins is one of the best Batman products in recent times.
- Ben Affleck is a good choice for Batman/Bruce Wayne.

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Old 09-29-2014, 06:49 AM   #25
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Default Re: State your unpopular Batman related opinion

Quote:
Originally Posted by shauner111 View Post
Ummmm no.
Ummmm yeah.

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