The Official Batman & Robin Thread

[Cain]

Originally Posted by Homer J. Fong

Tim Burton commentaries are an acquired taste; he's not the greatest speaker. Me, I've acquired the taste. They're way better than the Schumacher commentaries, though.

Same here but it wasn't easy lol he's the antithesis of an eloquent and engaging speaker that's for sure. His speech patterns remind me of some of the shyest friends I had in my life when I was younger. Schumacher is actually a very good speaker. He's also the only other bat director outside of Burton who's given us commentary so I appreciate the commentary tracks in his movies for that too.

[Homer J. Fong]

Originally Posted by Cain

Same here but it wasn't easy lol he's the antithesis of an eloquent and engaging speaker that's for sure. His speech patterns remind me of some of the shyest friends I had in my life when I was younger. Schumacher is actually a very good speaker. He's also the only other bat director outside of Burton who's given us commentary so I appreciate the commentary tracks in his movies for that too.

Schumacher is definitely the better speaker. Burton's gotten a lot bettter, even since those DVDs, but still, that is not his strong suit. Schumacher's commentaries lapse into "here's what's happening in the movie now" and bland praise of his actors, so that's why I prefer Burton's. Well, that and the bias of Burton being my favorite director anyway.

[Spoonman]

Originally Posted by Homer J. Fong

Schumacher is definitely the better speaker. Burton's gotten a lot bettter, even since those DVDs, but still, that is not his strong suit. Schumacher's commentaries lapse into "here's what's happening in the movie now" and bland praise of his actors, so that's why I prefer Burton's. Well, that the bias of Burton being my favorite director anyway.

It's gotta be bias because to me, Burton doesn't say a thing in his Batman commentaries, at least Schumacher goes into telling stories of the filming time and stuff and he is articulate at doing it.

[Pfeiffer-Pfan]

Being able to deliver good commentaries isn't in Burton's job description...

[Homer J. Fong]

Bias in this case means that I'm inclined to enjoy listening to Burton talk and inclined to want to hear what he has to say more than I am with Schumaacher, but come on, Burton says plenty. He talks about his vision for the Batman/Bruce Wayne character and divide, the repression of him and his identification with that, he defends the whole "the villains get more screentime than Batman" criticism with both films, he talks about the pressure of being a young director taking on such a big movie, he talks about the concerted effort to keep the camp talk at bay, he talks about the attempts to make Returns something different but still in line with what they did with the first one, he talks about how the ending of the first film was hastily changed, he tells that great little story of how Jack Palance scared him when he was trying to direct him, he defends the more controversial choices (like making the pre-Joker the killer of Thomas and Martha Wayne).... He says plenty.

[mikey1974]

i decided to watch this yesterday,for the first time in years....and,honestly,i had some fun with it! still the weakest of the Quadrilogy,but a visual,action-filled blast! in that respect,i think i figured out what "MY" problems with the film are,and what needed to be changed to make it better....

1) the puns - yeah,we started in BF, but they get WAY too ridiculous,and too many,in this film...

2) consistency with characters - keep em one way and stay with it! Bane ,Barbara,Alfred,and Poison Ivy are pretty much the only characters who stay consistent throughout! you have a Batman who's trying to be serious and impress upon Dick the seriousness of their work,yet in the next scene is making puns and seems to be enjoying himself too much....Freeze is heartbroken and sullen over his wife,yet is laughing,joking around,and making puns through half the film! Jesus Christ!

3) same with the plot/tone...you have seriosu subjects brought up like Alfred's impending death,the nature of family,Dick rebelling, Freeze desperately trying to cure his wife and plotting to destroy the city in his grief mixed with pratfalls,cheesy one-liners,and goofy fun...

Batman Forever had some of these same issues,but at it's core while the storyline and some of the antics were over the top,other that Carrey the characters were basically grounded and rooted in some form of seriousness,amking the film roughly 75% action/drama,and 25% campy fun... B & R just has everyone acting nuts! just pick a tone! either go full camp, or don't! but you can't make half a camp film and half a serious film and expect people to love it...

mind you,i still enjoy it for the crazy crap it can be,and if you shut your brain off it's an enjoyable summer movie...but i honeslty don't know how WB suits saw this and saw a $500 million profit....

[El Payaso]

Originally Posted by Dark Knight90!

Being able to deliver good commentaries isn't in Burton's job description...

Nor is in what helps Schumacher make good Batman movies either.

[Tacit Ronin]

This might be a generalization, but I've noticed directors who are the most visual tend to be not very articulate when speaking. I guess they use up all their wit to convey in images not words.

[AnneFan]

Yeah. He knows what he means but finds it hard to express himself in ways that the average person would understand. I find Burton's commentaries endearing.

[Cobblepot]

I really really don't like this movie, but I will admit it has some great visuals.

[Tacit Ronin]

Originally Posted by Cobblepot

I really really don't like this movie, but I will admit it has some great visuals.

Yes. The primary colours resembled what my young cousin would crayon over my (less desirable)Batman comics I gave to him.

[echostation]

This film if done seriously could have been a superb entertaining kick ass Batman film... it may not have been as necessarily dark but as a superhero/comic book film it would have been hugely entertaining with kick ass action if they didn't take such a campy tone.

I would have prefered a scene of Uma Thurman beating the living snot out of Robin... lord she looked strong and tough in the film to do so and it would have been soemthing fresh and different plus really downplayed Robin's annoying cockiness

[Two-Face]

I agree with these guys. Uma Thurman was underrated in the role.

[Kane52630]

I rewatched B&R over the weekend and I agree, Uma Thurman was underrated. She played Ivy so over the top and comically well I can't imagine anyone else playing Ivy.

[Two-Face]

You know, I might watch it for Uma. I watched it once when I bought the boxset on Bluray.

[Kane52630]

Also watch it for Arnuld as Freeze. It's so...amazing.

[Two-Face]

I watched this movie last night. To many ice puns just made me laugh "You're not sending me to the cooler" or Stay cool Birdboy"

[Kane52630]

Tonight, hell freezes over!

[Two-Face]

Originally Posted by Kane52630

Tonight, hell freezes over!

Also Joel Schumacher has done a great job with blurays they're truly in 1080p especally this movie.

[Kane52630]

Yeah all 4 films I thought had amazing trasfers. They all look really crisp.

[DaRkVeNgeanCe]

Yes they all do look great, wb definitly put alot of effort into them.

[mikey1974]

Originally Posted by echostation

This film if done seriously could have been a superb entertaining kick ass Batman film... it may not have been as necessarily dark but as a superhero/comic book film it would have been hugely entertaining with kick ass action if they didn't take such a campy tone.

I would have prefered a scene of Uma Thurman beating the living snot out of Robin... lord she looked strong and tough in the film to do so and it would have been soemthing fresh and different plus really downplayed Robin's annoying cockiness

agreed... they HAVE some darker,underlying theme's and tones in it: Alfred dying,Freeze's quest to cure his wife, Robin's growing pains and resentment at Batman not fully trusting him, hell Poison Ivy is created by someone "killing" Pamela Isley. there could've a lot of deep searching,darkness,and pathos in just those subplots. but instead they become secondary to the puns,neon lights,and over-the-top action.

[Kane52630]

As far as I'm concerned a campy Batman is still Batman. Sure it could've been darker but I'm glad it didn't.

[Two-Face]

If even Schumacher did B&R darker some fans would have said "oh he's copying off from Burton" The studio wanted a "kid friendly" movie he gave to them.

[Naked Shia]

Agreed with both of you! I love Batman and Robin. It's flawed, but it's still damn fun.