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Old 04-29-2012, 11:12 AM   #351
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Default Re: The Official Batman & Robin Thread

I don't think the problem of B&R has to do with darkness or campiness. It's just a movie that gets too stupid too many times. Sure the stdio asked for a kid-friendly movie. The studio also asked a 2 hour toy commercial. Don't see any redeeming quality in that or the fact that Schumacher obeyed those orders.

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Old 05-02-2012, 03:23 PM   #352
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Default Re: The Official Batman & Robin Thread

As time goes by I actually appreciate B&R more,People may hate the over the top camp in Batman Forever&of course Batman&Robin But they are basically like random comic issues or toon episodes come to life..Which is much closer to the source material than the Nolan films,In the next reboot I sure hope they use the comics fantasy element But keep the dark&seriousness of the Nolan films!!!

Batman has not always been dark and so I think he should have had a film like that and he has with B'60's/BF and B&R!

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Old 05-06-2012, 08:01 PM   #353
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Default Re: The Official Batman & Robin Thread

I just wanted to say how much I freaking love this movie. Other than the fact that it's big, loud, dumb, entertaining, fun as hell and basically a huge budgeted update of Batman '66, it kept me going while I was in the hospital as a young kid and the first thing I did when I got out was to go see it. It was also the first Batman movie that I obsessively followed until it came out.

Furthermore, I also believe it to be the best of the first four Bat films. The guys over at comic alliance have helped me a great deal to articulate why.

Basically, I believe Batman '89 and Batman Returns to be utter messes in every conceivable way besides music and set design. While I acknowledge the importance Of B89 as an iconic piece of pop culture, it's a horrendous movie for a whole slew of reasons. Batman Returns takes everything B89 got wrong and amplifies it a billion times over.

But the biggest problem I have with the bashing Batman and Robin gets is that it's over the top silliness gets called out while the all of the ridiculousness of Burton's unbearable works gets ignored, and instead, hailed as dark and serious.

As CA's review of B89 says: "Let's be honest here: if you reshot this entire script with a silly cloth Batsuit, Cesar Romero and scenes that actually take place in daylight, nobody would know the difference. Like, a movie is not dark just because you have to squint to make out what's going on. A movie is dark when its subject matter is dark."

Also, "But there are a ton of people, even today, who thought that this was a huge departure from that silliness, because they apparently missed the part where the Joker's poison gas parade balloons are dealt with by Batman flying a bat-shaped airplane with a giant pair of scissors that comes out from between its bat-ears."

Batman Returns is simply a ridiculously silly movie where we have:

1) A penguin baby raised by penguins in a sewer who ends up running an almost becoming mayor of a major metropolitan city.

2) A secretary gets resurrected by cats after being pushed out of a window and actually becomes a cat person herself with nine lives

3) Batman gets outsmarted by a poodle and framed for kidnapping

4) rocket penguins. rocket penguins, people.

As far as Penguin running for mayor goes, that in fact was the plot of an episode of the 60s Batman show.

The point here is that because Burton's films look really dark and serious, people automatically refer to the subject matter of his films as dark and serious, but they simply aren't. They are inherently campy and silly movies, but don't embrace the campiness and silliness, instead trying at the same time to be dark and thematically 'mature.' Any attempt at seriousness in either film, no matter how tepid or underdeveloped they are, is completely undermined by all of the silliness. My point here is basically that both movies would have been better if they had chosen one or the other. Commit to the silliness or to the seriousness. What ends up happening by attempting both is that they each come off as half assed.

Batman and Robin, for it's many flaws, knows exactly what kind of movie it is, and instead of trying to masquerade as a deeper movie than it is, embraces it's ridiculousness and rides it as far as it can, providing a much more coherent movie than any of the two Burton films and a more coherent and true to form portrayal of Bruce Wayne/Batman. Instead of seriousness and silliness being constantly juxtaposed with and doing damage to each other, the only thing being juxtaposed in Batman and Robin is the really silly and the unbelievably silly, and that's perfectly okay to me. People like to forget that Batman for YEARS was a ridiculous character involved in ridiculous and over the top situations. It's unfair to praise B89 and Returns for allegedly embracing the more serious side of the character and then complain about B&R for embracing the other, and completely legitimate, silly side of the character. Sorry people, but Year One and The Killing Joke aren't the only two Batman stories ever written.

Anyone who doesn't smile throughout the entire opening museum fight in B&R either takes Batman way too seriously or can't have any fun at all.


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Old 05-06-2012, 09:12 PM   #354
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Default Re: The Official Batman & Robin Thread


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Old 05-06-2012, 09:54 PM   #355
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Default Re: The Official Batman & Robin Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cain View Post
I will admit that my post does seem really trollish, but i'm being totally and completely honest.

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Old 05-06-2012, 10:15 PM   #356
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Default Re: The Official Batman & Robin Thread

I don't see why disliking Burton's movies would be considered trollish unless you're being personally insulting in some way towards the fans in your post. Although I think your line about anyone unable to have fun if they don't smile at museum scene with Freeze is really pushing it.

I don't agree with you about Batman and Robin being the best one, but you're entitled to your opinion. At least you take the time to explain yourself and not just say "It suckz!!!!" or something like that.

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Old 05-06-2012, 10:18 PM   #357
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Default Re: The Official Batman & Robin Thread

Yeah I was agreeing with him at first but he went a couple steps too far.

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Old 05-06-2012, 10:24 PM   #358
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Default Re: The Official Batman & Robin Thread

I don't care if anybody likes the Burton movies or not. I do and to me that's all that matters. It just seemed trollish when I read this here

"Any attempt at seriousness in either film, no matter how tepid or underdeveloped they are, is completely undermined by all of the silliness."


I can't take that very seriously because objectively speaking it was the contrast between dark and silly that gave that movie such a good tonal balance in the first place. So it's a very easy argumentative point to knock. Seems trollish in that regard much respect due if it's your sincere opinion and everything but at least elaborate a bit on something like that.

The dark thematic points still resonate quite well despite the sillier scenarios you see in that more fantastical world. Like in a comic book. So I personally can't see how they were undermined in any way.

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Old 05-06-2012, 10:24 PM   #359
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Default Re: The Official Batman & Robin Thread

The_Fire_Rises, while I agree that B&R is stupid as all ***** and revels in it, I do think you need to rewatch the Burton films.

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Old 05-07-2012, 08:39 PM   #360
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Default Re: The Official Batman & Robin Thread

7 minutes into the movie, and I still don't like the theme
I enjoy the camp, and wonder if this was inspirational for the introduction episode of Freeze in The Batman with his ice jokes

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Old 05-08-2012, 01:01 AM   #361
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Default Re: The Official Batman & Robin Thread

@The_Fire_Rises: I would agree with you on saying Returns is awkward, and the Burton films do have their camp moments, but to say the themes of both movies would be like the 60s show with some differences? Nope, far from that

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Old 05-11-2012, 06:26 PM   #362
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Default Re: The Official Batman & Robin Thread

I think the main problem with the film is, it doesn't know what theme it fits into, it trys many and fails at all. And obviously it fell into the; introduce too many characters all at once. And for gods sakes George/Batman is constantly smiling, not really the brooding vigilante that Batman is widely accepted as!

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Old 05-11-2012, 07:04 PM   #363
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Default Re: The Official Batman & Robin Thread

B&R's Batman is more like 60's comics&toon Batman..Who was smiling all the time even when running&done kicking a**!

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Old 05-11-2012, 07:37 PM   #364
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Default Re: The Official Batman & Robin Thread

Yeah Batman & Robin fit into the 60's Batman theme really well. And Batman shouldn't be a brooding vigilante all the time....it gets boring.

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Old 05-11-2012, 08:26 PM   #365
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Default Re: The Official Batman & Robin Thread

That's why I love this movie cause I personally enjoy both styles of Batman,IF I want dark&brooding I'll see the Burton&Nolan films and when I'm feeling vintage Batman I'll see Batman:The Movie(60's)/Batman Forever and Batman&Robin!

I can never get enough Batman in all forms!

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Old 05-17-2012, 10:07 AM   #366
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Default Re: The Official Batman & Robin Thread

I just read that there was several scenes dealing with Bruce and his love interest, Julie Madison were cut out from the film. I wonder why they never released them.

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Old 07-23-2012, 12:52 AM   #367
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Default Watching Batman & Robin right now...oh god

I've never actually seen this film, just a lot of reviews and parts here and there on TV but my god this movie so much worse than I thought, but not for a reason I've heard anyone else bring up. It's not completely without merit. The scenes between Bruce and Alfred where he's speaking about Death and Batman are pure gold, great, but then you remember George Clooney is Bruce and you realize this movie is using drama in place of comic relief.Also was there any attempt to make it appear as if it wasn't shot on a set?

Also is this what Joel Schumacher thought of comic books? Colorful thugs with neon chains and body paint?

Also despite being a HORRIBLE casting choice someone has to give Arnold some credit for delivering THE worst line in movie history while still playing it straight!


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Old 07-31-2012, 08:33 PM   #368
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Default Re: Watching Batman & Robin right now...oh god

It's not that bad and good in bits.

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Old 07-31-2012, 08:56 PM   #369
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Default Re: Watching Batman & Robin right now...oh god

Alfred was that piece of crap film's only saving grace. though Arnold with his freeze puns was hilarious!

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Old 07-31-2012, 09:24 PM   #370
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Default Re: Watching Batman & Robin right now...oh god

Batman and Robin is just ridiculously bad but its been long enough that now its pretty hilarious. Funny enough that its actually probably the Batman movie I rewatch most often after The Dark Knight, but I'm big on so bad they're good movies so maybe its just me.

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Old 07-31-2012, 10:27 PM   #371
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Default Re: Watching Batman & Robin right now...oh god

It so bad it's good. By good I mean you can watch it and laugh at it for the sheer entertainment it gives for being so hilariously bad.

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Old 08-01-2012, 02:12 PM   #372
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Default Re: Watching Batman & Robin right now...oh god

Precisely.

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Old 08-01-2012, 02:13 PM   #373
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Default Re: Watching Batman & Robin right now...oh god

The beginning in the bat cave with the new Bat mobile is good, and Alicia Silverstone looks good, it's crap but still worth watching.

Poison Ivy and Bane are a pain and the luminous colours are dreadful.

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Old 08-01-2012, 02:33 PM   #374
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Default Re: Watching Batman & Robin right now...oh god

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Old 08-02-2012, 01:31 PM   #375
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Default Re: Watching Batman & Robin right now...oh god

j00 are nawt sendeng me back to da coolah!!!!!

Arnold is awesome.

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