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Old 05-29-2008, 12:09 AM   #1
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Default So Spider-man's webbing DID kill Gwen

Hello all, I remember some time ago there was some speculation about what actually killed originally Gwen in the comics...if she was already dead or the webbing snapped her neck. Well, I just read the letter comments in the "Spiders Web" of Amazing issue 125 and the writers explain that it was, in fact, Peter's webbing that killed her.

Here is what they say, and I quote:

For many who wrote and complained that the fall alone could not have killed Gwen if she were unconscious.... it saddens us to have to say that the whiplash effect she underwent when Spidey's webbing stopped her so suddenly was, in fact, what killed her. In short, it was impossible for Peter to save her. He couldn't have swung down in time; the action he did take resulted in her death; if he had done nothing, she still would have certainly perished. There was no way out.

They explain that there was no way out, so in the end, it was the Goblin who really killed her, since there was nothing Peter could do to stop her from dying. I'm sorry if this is obvious but I remember reading at these forums or some other forums about people arguing over it some time ago.

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Old 05-29-2008, 12:10 AM   #2
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Default Re: So Spider-man's webbing DID kill Gwen

OMG, sorry, I posted this on the movies, I meant to post this on the comics forum. Mods, please move this to the comics section. Thanks!

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Old 05-29-2008, 07:10 AM   #3
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Default Re: So Spider-man's webbing DID kill Gwen

I didn't even know there was a debate going on about that. I was always under the impression that it was the webbing that snapped her neck.

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Old 05-29-2008, 12:47 PM   #4
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Default Re: So Spider-man's webbing DID kill Gwen

I thought the debate was over whether or not she was actually dead before Gobby even threw her off the bridge.

If you read Paul Jenkin's "Death In The Family" story, Norman tells Peter that she was in fact dead already. Other sources say otherwise.

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Old 05-29-2008, 01:41 PM   #5
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Default Re: So Spider-man's webbing DID kill Gwen

Yup. Big debate still going no with whether she was dead or not. Mainly because the creative teams keep changing the story.

in the original asm 121 story gwen was unconscious the whole time and it was unclear what killed her.

as xspidercidex described later editorial responded that it was spidey's webbing that killed her. he justified it by saying that she would have been dead either way.

next we have the death in the family story that dark spidey describes...Norman tells peter that she was already dead.

THAN we have the asm 500 story where peter is going through time and has to fight his way back to present day. that story shows a flash back where gwen is wide awake and in fear of whats going on. but spidey still fails to catch her. (JMS made another mistake when he said pete was 17 when he was bitten by the spider in that story so im sure its just a mistake.)

so thats pretty much why there is a debate on whether it was actually norman that killed her or not. the original answer was that peter killed her. which is why he says "shes dead. and spiderman killed her"

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Old 05-29-2008, 02:15 PM   #6
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Default Re: So Spider-man's webbing DID kill Gwen

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Originally Posted by Styleshift View Post
in the original asm 121 story gwen was unconscious the whole time and it was unclear what killed her.

as xspidercidex described later editorial responded that it was spidey's webbing that killed her. he justified it by saying that she would have been dead either way.
Just to be clear here, the editorial response xspidercidex was describing happened in ASM #125, a mere 4 issues after the fact. I think that editorial response was to the billion questions as to what exactly happened in ASM #121.


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Old 05-29-2008, 02:39 PM   #7
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Default Re: So Spider-man's webbing DID kill Gwen

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Originally Posted by Themanofbat View Post
Just to be clear here, the editorial response xspidercidex was describing happened in ASM #125, a mere 4 issues after the fact. I think that editorial response was to the billion questions as to what exactly happened in ASM #121.

If editorial at the time said it was the webbing, then it must have been the webbing. Besides...the point of Gwen's death was to remind Peter that he cannot save everyone. Had he not been there, she would have died, too.

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Old 05-29-2008, 03:51 PM   #8
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Default Re: So Spider-man's webbing DID kill Gwen

I think The story was more of a psychological win for the goblin.
Not only did he off Spidey's soon to be wife. but he made Spidey be the actual cause of her death not just in the fact that his webbing caused her death...but that if he hadn't become Spidey he'd never have to deal with people like this and put his loved ones in danger....

It really did put a serious stamp on the character for years to come, we really don't need to see another story like this to be reminded that he's a flawed hero, and as shinlyle said it reminded Peter he can't save everyone and it makes him that much more human.

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Old 05-29-2008, 06:22 PM   #9
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Default Re: So Spider-man's webbing DID kill Gwen

Here are some scans to finish it once and for all. It's obvious that it was Peter's webbing, this was the intention when it the story was written.

From Amazing 121...notice the SNAP! by Gwen's neck:



From the letters in Amazing 125 (third column):


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Old 05-29-2008, 06:37 PM   #10
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Default Re: So Spider-man's webbing DID kill Gwen

Gosh... look at that... complaints about Marvel getting rid of Peter's true love...

How some things never change in 35 years...


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Old 05-29-2008, 07:41 PM   #11
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Default Re: So Spider-man's webbing DID kill Gwen

Wouldn't she have died if she hit the water? That's what I've always thought. I read Peter Parker Spider-Man #50 and Peter is talking about Gwen's death to aunt May and he says she'd have lived if she hit the water. I always thought it was a no-win situation.

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Old 05-29-2008, 07:43 PM   #12
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Default Re: So Spider-man's webbing DID kill Gwen

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Originally Posted by Themanofbat View Post
Gosh... look at that... complaints about Marvel getting rid of Peter's true love...

How some things never change in 35 years...

Dude there is no way OMD can be compared to The night that gwen stacy died...it was tragic and well written and on the other hand Gwen wasn't as developed as Mj was...

The night that gwen stacy died put a stamp on the character that is still there today.

OMD was just a sorry excuse to reboot everything you know about the character. Not every fan is upset about the marriage being gone. you know me personally that i didn't care about the marriage.

i just wish they didn't send it off in such a crappy story....when you hear about Spidey and what makes him popular you don't hear about his relationships so him being single was a pretty dumb move.

only famous girl that was worth something to casual fans is mj and thats because she married him...lol.

I mean...sure you can poke some fun at how some fans complain about everything...but you gotta look at the big picture.

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Last edited by Styleshift; 05-29-2008 at 07:46 PM.
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Old 05-29-2008, 11:17 PM   #13
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Default Re: So Spider-man's webbing DID kill Gwen

Quote:
Originally Posted by Themanofbat View Post
Gosh... look at that... complaints about Marvel getting rid of Peter's true love...

How some things never change in 35 years...


Aloha,
You noticed that also
Spidey rules with fans who are never satisfied

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Old 05-29-2008, 11:24 PM   #14
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Default Re: So Spider-man's webbing DID kill Gwen

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Dude there is no way OMD can be compared to The night that gwen stacy died...it was tragic and well written and on the other hand Gwen wasn't as developed as Mj was...

The night that gwen stacy died put a stamp on the character that is still there today.

OMD was just a sorry excuse to reboot everything you know about the character. Not every fan is upset about the marriage being gone. you know me personally that i didn't care about the marriage.

i just wish they didn't send it off in such a crappy story....when you hear about Spidey and what makes him popular you don't hear about his relationships so him being single was a pretty dumb move.

only famous girl that was worth something to casual fans is mj and thats because she married him...lol.

I mean...sure you can poke some fun at how some fans complain about everything...but you gotta look at the big picture.
I never compared the stories... I just made a comment on the similarities of fans always complaining about something...

Read the scan of the letter's page again... there's one part where a letter writer talks about how immature MJ is...


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Old 05-30-2008, 12:29 AM   #15
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Default Re: So Spider-man's webbing DID kill Gwen

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Originally Posted by ReggieWhiteJr View Post
Wouldn't she have died if she hit the water? That's what I've always thought. I read Peter Parker Spider-Man #50 and Peter is talking about Gwen's death to aunt May and he says she'd have lived if she hit the water. I always thought it was a no-win situation.
Aloha,
Just read the comic you are referring to. Peter is deluding himself, BIG TIME, if he thought for one minute, that Gwen or any other non super human could have survived a fall from the (Bklyn Bridge-GW Bridge). He also says that Goiblin slamed into Gwen like a steam roller wtih the glider. So although he said she was barely conscious, the glider hit her with the same impact as a moving vehicle. She had no chance to survive.Peter made a last ditch effort to save her but she was too far down the bridge for him to have been able to pull her up without snapping her neck.It was as you said- a NO Win situation. But at least he tried which is what he should focus on instead of thinking that she could have lived.
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Old 05-30-2008, 02:43 AM   #16
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Default Re: So Spider-man's webbing DID kill Gwen

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I never compared the stories... I just made a comment on the similarities of fans always complaining about something...

Read the scan of the letter's page again... there's one part where a letter writer talks about how immature MJ is...

That I can agree on.
But you've gotta admit. they've developed her character greatly in the past years...

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Old 05-30-2008, 02:49 AM   #17
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Default Re: So Spider-man's webbing DID kill Gwen

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Originally Posted by ReggieWhiteJr View Post
Wouldn't she have died if she hit the water? That's what I've always thought. I read Peter Parker Spider-Man #50 and Peter is talking about Gwen's death to aunt May and he says she'd have lived if she hit the water. I always thought it was a no-win situation.
Riiiiiight I forgot that one.
Major mistake, your right, because falling from that height head first into water would be equivalent to her slamming her head into a brick wall.

but at the same time it's reasonable for peter to be under the mind set that things would have been better if he hadn't used his web.

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Old 05-30-2008, 02:54 PM   #18
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Default Re: So Spider-man's webbing DID kill Gwen

Had no idea that this was even still going on. I know some people always got kind of caught up in what GG told him. Something about her being dead long before she fell off the roof or something. Personally, I always thought Marvel made it pretty clear that the webbing is what killed her. All these years later and that little "Snap" effect is still one of the more powerful moments in comics for me.

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Old 05-30-2008, 05:11 PM   #19
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Default Re: So Spider-man's webbing DID kill Gwen

LOL dude they even had a scientific debate about it. I read an article...basically it stated that In real life his webbing would have saved her life because of it's elasticity....

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Old 05-30-2008, 11:42 PM   #20
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Default Re: So Spider-man's webbing DID kill Gwen

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Riiiiiight I forgot that one.
Major mistake, your right, because falling from that height head first into water would be equivalent to her slamming her head into a brick wall.

but at the same time it's reasonable for peter to be under the mind set that things would have been better if he hadn't used his web.
AHA! I thought so. Still, I can see Peter tormenting himself over it. I mean, it was a horrible situation to be in to begin with. Basically, the minute she was knocked off the bridge she was dead. Seems that she would have died one way or another.

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Old 05-31-2008, 09:17 AM   #21
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Default Re: So Spider-man's webbing DID kill Gwen

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AHA! I thought so. Still, I can see Peter tormenting himself over it. I mean, it was a horrible situation to be in to begin with. Basically, the minute she was knocked off the bridge she was dead. Seems that she would have died one way or another.
Yeah that's what I always liked about Spidey.
It really humanized the character and added this "hey you know this could happen" factor into his life...

I mean no matter how hard you try you can't always be there for everyone, no matter how much they mean to you.

They've strayed away so far from this basic concept with all the magic causing problems for Spidey...

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