Does 'Hancock' ruin the 'drunken hero' angle?

[TheVileOne]

Originally Posted by Figs

It's not crybaby nonsense...and Incredibles was extremely overrated.

Robocop is a bad comparison...it was it's own thing. Last time I checked their weren't any comics based on a cop who was part man part machine...before they made the Robocop comics at least.

So what? There was the character Cyborg from Teen Titans.

The way you seem to think movies like THE INCREDIBLES should not be made because of comic books is ridiculous and has no merit.

[Figs]

Originally Posted by TheVileOne

So what? There was the character Cyborg from Teen Titans.

The way you seem to think movies like THE INCREDIBLES should not be made because of comic books is ridiculous and has no merit.

I don't necessarily think they shouldn't be made...it's just they should try to create characters that are a little more original.

[The Question]

Robocop was actually very heavily inspired by Judge Dredd. It's themes and very dystopian look at the future of law enforcement borrowed very heavily from the Dredd comics.

[kedrell]

^I always heard it was inspired by Iron Man & Deathlok.

[Superark]

I don't think Hancock will affect IM2 at all.

[TheVileOne]

Originally Posted by Figs

I don't necessarily think they shouldn't be made...it's just they should try to create characters that are a little more original.

This is even more ridiculous, and you seem to be going back on your original rambling.

What was unoriginal about the characters in The Incredibles BESIDES their super powers? All of which have been around in various forms in comics for years since the golden age which is what Brad Bird drew heavy influence from.

[zmystico]

Hancock reminds me more of "Meteor Man" than an actual superhero movies, I think its geared more for the masses as opposed to comic/superhero fans. I don't see a trilogy or even a sequel for it, just a film capitalizing off the superhero movie trend right now. I thought my super ex-girlfriend used the superhero theme as a backdrop for a story about a bad breakup. I liked The Incredibles although the family's powers were a little stereotypical, the incredibly strong father, the speed demon son, the emo daughter with mystic powers, although I loved Elasti-girl....baby had back lol. I thought it was a good spoof on the superhero genre, and really just a fun flick, but I wouldn't expect a sequel for it.

[ultimatefan]

First of all, Hancock is a comedy, not a serious superhero movie. Second, it looks like it´s gonna be one of the bombs of the summer.

[Franklin Richards]

I understand this problem. The Incredibles sort of stole my beloved FF's thunder. Even though the FF were technically first, to some of the standard movie goer they weren't the First Family of superheroes.

I see Iron Man having some similar problems, but if 2 is as good as 1 then I don't see too much of a problem.

[Gilpesh]

Originally Posted by Franklin Richards

I understand this problem. The Incredibles sort of stole my beloved FF's thunder. Even though the FF were technically first, to some of the standard movie goer they weren't the First Family of superheroes.

I see Iron Man having some similar problems, but if 2 is as good as 1 then I don't see too much of a problem.

But that was it. Too bad the people at fox thought that also and just didn't try at all.

[November Rain]

meh, the Incredibles managed to capture the heart and what it meant to be a superhero alot better than 90% of superhero films, it also captured the heart of a true villain who actually suceeded in killing dozens of superheroes in order to fulfill and destroy the legacy they all held.

As for hancock, this discussion is kinda silly, like you can't have two superheroes that drink.

GASP, HANCOCK CAN FLY, IT'LL RUIN A SUPERMAN FILM, GASP...



let's at least see how much alcohol plays an influence before jumping to conclusions please. If anything it just shows he really doesn't care about being a hero, while stark uses it completely as a crutch.

comic stories have been covering the same ground for ages, even the same writer will rehash a story for different characters, it's no big deal.

[Eggyman]

Originally Posted by November Rain

meh, the Incredibles managed to capture the heart and what it meant to be a superhero alot better than 90% of superhero films, it also captured the heart of a true villain who actually suceeded in killing dozens of superheroes in order to fulfill and destroy the legacy they all held.

As for hancock, this discussion is kinda silly, like you can't have two superheroes that drink.

GASP, HANCOCK CAN FLY, IT'LL RUIN A SUPERMAN FILM, GASP...



let's at least see how much alcohol plays an influence before jumping to conclusions please. If anything it just shows he really doesn't care about being a hero, while stark uses it completely as a crutch.

comic stories have been covering the same ground for ages, even the same writer will rehash a story for different characters, it's no big deal.

Yes! Well said. I don't think Hancock really has a drinking problem as such - not like Stark, anyway - he just comes across as a lazy bum that doesn't give a ****.

[Evil Twin]

Originally Posted by The Question

Robocop was actually very heavily inspired by Judge Dredd. It's themes and very dystopian look at the future of law enforcement borrowed very heavily from the Dredd comics.

It probably should be noted that there was a shout out to Howard Chaykin, who's cynical corporate controlled future of American Flagg! was an obvious inspiration, in the closing credits to Robocop.

I honestly think that Robert Downey's history with addiction works against a demon with a bottle adaptation. There was nothing fun or charming witnessing that and a similar scenario is likely to evoke those memories.

[TheVileOne]

Actually, I found Iron Man going on a drunken bender in his suit trying to fight crime while being totally throwed was kind of funny.

[Vaportrail]

I really hope that Jon just goes to see Hancock and realizes that it's a different story they'd be trying to tell.

At least, I hope so. The fact that he compares Hancock's flying through a billboard to Iron Man, stating it'd be 'similar imagery', man. What the heck was Iron Man gonna do?

I think it's too early for War Machine. I figured we'd see the Mandarin and Demon in a Bottle storyline this time and we'd get to War Machine in the third movie.
Then again, if "Iron Man 3" is actually Stark's role in The Avengers, that does raise a question of when they'd get to War Machine.


I feel so rushed.

[TheVileOne]

Here's something else Favreau put on his MySpace group on the Hancock issue:

I never said Demon In a Bottle was out. I just want to make sure that we don’t make a movie too similar to Hancock. I want to wait and see what they do. Alcoholism will definitely inform the character as time goes on.

From the keyboard of Jon Favreau

[hatebox]

Originally Posted by Phatman

Hancock is a cheeseball over the top CGI fest with no depth or substance..

lol, I enjoyed Iron Man, but it's not like it's the polar opposite of those adjectives. hopefully the sequel will go a little deeper.

[Brian Braddock]

Originally Posted by The Question

Robocop was actually very heavily inspired by Judge Dredd. It's themes and very dystopian look at the future of law enforcement borrowed very heavily from the Dredd comics.

True. I think Rob Bottin knew of the inspiration for Robo too - judging from his early Robocop designs that basically had a copy of Dredd's helmet.

[DACrowe]

If Hancock bombs or is bad, it won't matter. If not: you make it good enough and say "my comics" did it first , it won't matter. It's happened before with superhero movies.

[Visionary]

Originally Posted by kedrell

IM has already matched LOTR and surpassed BB in quality.

Iron Man matched Lord of the Rings in quality, you've gotta be f---ing kiddin'?

I tell you, once the "my favorite comic book movie syndrome" kicks in, you people will say anything.

[EternalMaster]

There'll be at least a 2 year gap between Hancock and Iron Man. In Hancock, I seriously doubt alcoholism will be a FOCUS of the film. It's just something that funny old Hancock does. With Iron Man/Stark, it would be a pivotal part of the film.

And again, there will be a two year gap. I don't think the average movie goer is going to draw a connection.

[Ultraman Nexus]

Oh lord. Frankly I could live without ever seeing Demon In A Bottle on the big screen. Not only is it something that just tacks on angst to a character that already has enough, it would just be embarassing the character for movie going audiences and let's face it, no kid anywhere wants to see Iron Man become their drunkass uncle.

That being said, if there was a point in the story where Tony feels like giving up and they establish this with a single scene of him appearing to be drowning his sorrows I think that would be more than enough.

[Ishmayl]

Originally Posted by Figs

That's why I'm getting sick of these wannabe superhero films. The Incredibles, Super Ex-girlfriend and now Hancock.

Primarily with Incredibles and now Hancock they steal ideas from other existing superheroes that are going to have a movie come out in the near future and use it for theirs to get credit.

Wow... just, wow. You know, the problem isn't that these people are "stealing" themes and themes. The problem isn't that they're coming out before some "legitimate" comic book superhero (and why do comic book heroes have to be the only superheroes???), the problem is that until Iron Man, Marvel and whoever else they had in the producer's seat was screwing everything up. Brad Bird wrote "The Incredibles" not to "steal" from Fantastic Four, but to show his own rendition of the superhero family. And how did FF answer that? Did they make a kick-ass movie that anyone with the kind of money Marvel and Avi Arad have combined should have made? Did they hire top-notch actors and actresses to play the roles? Did they hire only the best screenwriters to write the best stories of all times? Hell no, they hired second-rate actors (other than Alba, who might be a big-time star nowadays, but that doesn't mean she can act) who can barely get a job in a soap opera to perform a script that sounds like my younger brother wrote while he was high. Then, to top it all off, they only used sub-par special effects. Everyone by now should know that after Star Wars, the Lord of the Rings Trilogy, and the Matrix trilogy, that if you're going to use crappy effects, people are going to complain. The bar has been set. It's silly to assume otherwise. So, the argument that "The Incredibles" in any way caused the backlash that FF got is just plain stupid - Marvel and AA caused that backlash, and should look in the future to hiring smarter and more talented people (like they have done for Incredible Hulk and Iron Man) to do the movies.

To answer the Hancock/Iron Man issue, there seems to be a really simple explanation to this. Write a story about a real alcoholic. Don't just write a story about some super-powered schmuck wreaking havoc all across a city because he's throwing a temper tantrum (ala Hancock); write a story about how alcoholism ruins lives - not only the alcoholic's but his family and friends as well. Write a deep, dark story about overcoming it - not through random acts of compassion, but by beating the real demon within. I trust that Jon Favreau could do that if he chooses too, and I trust that RDJ, Gwenneth Paltrow, and others involved can make it happen. But if Marvel keeps making the mistakes of the past, like it did with FF, and like it's rumored is going to happen to the second Iron Man movie (not giving Favreau enough time, possibly not even hiring him because he wants more money), then we're going to get a ****ty sequel that everyone will then blame on Hancock, instead of blaming it on the people responsible. [/rant]

[weezerspider]

Originally Posted by kedrell

IM has already matched LOTR and surpassed BB in quality.

That might have been the stupidest thing I've heard.....

[TheVileOne]

Thing is though, do they want Iron Man to be THAT heavy? Things were apparently cut out of the Hulk because it was too dark and brutal for the audience.