Ben Stein is "Expelled"...

[Moviefan2k4]

Noted and respected author/commentator Ben Stein has recently unveiled a new documentary called "Expelled: No Intelligence Allowed". The subject of this film is both simple and complex, and it all hovers around one question, and the 2 main viewpoints seemingly at war with each other. It's one of the biggest questions humanity's ever had: "Where did we come from, and how did we get here?"

I recently viewed the trailer on the film's official website, and I have to say, it looks very compelling. I realize the very nature of this debate lights all sorts of fires in the hearts of mankind, but I thought I'd start a general discussion about the subject. For those who have seen Stein's documentary, feel free to speak up. For the rest of us who haven't, let's see where this goes.
If you prefer to see the trailer before viewing the website, here it is, courtesy of YouTube.

VIDEO-CLick to Watch!:

As with all posts on the SHH! board, I suggest we all remain respectful (no bashing or name-calling), and I think the mods would tend to agree with me. So, without further delay, let's get to it! =)

[Joker]

There's already a thread on this. And this movie has been out so long that I believe it's already out of theaters at this point.

Also, all I have to say is, the subtitle "no intelligence allowed," is the most accurate subtitle I've ever seen. Because if you have any intelligence, you won't be in the theater watching this

[Mr. Credible]

wow...i actually agree with the joker on something.

weird.

[Joker]

Originally Posted by Mr. Credible

wow...i actually agree with the joker on something.

weird.

I think this is actually one of the signs of the apocalypse. By us both disagreeing with him, we've actually proven him right! Quick, before it's too late...Cloverfield was awesome !

[StrainedEyes]

Looks like no one saw it...

[Lighthouse]

This thread isn't going to end well. I remember the SHH Ben Stein thread. *shudders*

I'll simply put it this way....

Evolution=Testable theory=Science

Intelligent Desgin=Untestable theory=Not science.

[xwolverine2]

ben stein isnt the best person to be narrating a movie...lol

even al gore can keep me awake longer than this guy

[Figs]

Lighthouse...that's what the movie is partly about.

How so called scientists are morons for kicking out a possibility that hasn't been disproven yet.

As Stein says in the film, science is about learning and studying the unknown to gain more knowledge.

It's incredibly ignorant regardless what the average arrogant aethiest says to black ball any scientists who want to keep Intelligent Design as a possible theory.

I admit Intelligent Design definetly is a stretch and farfetched(I'm agnostic). I do believe in evolution but I won't act like I know something isn't real as a fact when it still hasn't been 'scientifically' proven.

[Joker]

Originally Posted by Figs

Lighthouse...that's what the movie is partly about.

How so called scientists are morons for kicking out a possibility that hasn't been disproven yet.

As Stein says in the film, science is about learning and studying the unknown to gain more knowledge.

It's incredibly ignorant regardless what the average arrogant aethiest says to black ball any scientists who want to keep Intelligent Design as a possible theory.

I admit Intelligent Design definetly is a stretch and farfetched(I'm agnostic). I do believe in evolution but I won't act like I know something isn't real as a fact when it still hasn't been 'scientifically' proven.

With that outlook, you shouldnt act like you know gravity is a real fact either, when it still hasnt been scientifically proven either. Theory means something much different in a scientific perspective than it does in a "I've got a theory, I think that ants stole our picnic basket!" type of way.

[Mr. Credible]

Originally Posted by The Joker

I think this is actually one of the signs of the apocalypse. By us both disagreeing with him, we've actually proven him right! Quick, before it's too late...Cloverfield was awesome !

meh... not really.


(phew) back to normal.

[Carcharodon]

Originally Posted by Figs

Lighthouse...that's what the movie is partly about.

How so called scientists are morons for kicking out a possibility that hasn't been disproven yet.

As Stein says in the film, science is about learning and studying the unknown to gain more knowledge.

It's incredibly ignorant regardless what the average arrogant aethiest says to black ball any scientists who want to keep Intelligent Design as a possible theory.

I admit Intelligent Design definetly is a stretch and farfetched(I'm agnostic). I do believe in evolution but I won't act like I know something isn't real as a fact when it still hasn't been 'scientifically' proven.

Nothing is ever scientifically, "proven." This post is an example of a horrible lack of understanding of the nature of science and the scientific method.

What sucks is that I can't just say that without giving you some sort of explanation. What sucks even more is that the nature of the scientific method can take years to properly learn. This leads to a general misconception among the public of just what science is.

Those, "moron scientists," stick to an extremely well-defined and established scientific method; without that method, scientific practice ceases to exist. (Also, correct me if I'm wrong, but the current method has worked out pretty damn well so far.)

Science deals with testable hypotheses, the key word being testable. You can't test for the freaking presence of GOD. Therefore, creationism IS. NOT. SCIENCE.

Therefore, it has no place in the science classroom. It's not a viable, alternate scientific theory, for the very reason cited above. Besides, there's already a place you can learn all about creationism. Some people like to call it, "church," or there's even Sunday School.

Before you start bashing so-called, "moron scientists," you should probably take the time to learn and know what the hell you're talking about. Call me crazy, but it just may add validity to your argument.


Also, Moviefan: There's a thread about this in the Misc. Films Forum already, but it's more or less dead. I'll see if I can direct you there or get you a link, if for nothing else than to look at past discussion. I personally don't mind this topic being resurrected, I just thought you might want to see it.

EDIT: Here it is: http://forums.superherohype.com/show...light=expelled

[WallCrawl]

Originally Posted by Carcharodon

Nothing is ever scientifically, "proven." This post is an example of a horrible lack of understanding of the nature of science and the scientific method.

What sucks is that I can't just say that without giving you some sort of explanation. What sucks even more is that the nature of the scientific method can take years to properly learn. This leads to a general misconception among the public of just what science is.

Those, "moron scientists," stick to an extremely well-defined and established scientific method; without that method, scientific practice ceases to exist. (Also, correct me if I'm wrong, but the current method has worked out pretty damn well so far.)

Science deals with testable hypotheses, the key word being testable. You can't test for the freaking presence of GOD. Therefore, creationism IS. NOT. SCIENCE.

Therefore, it has no place in the science classroom. It's not a viable, alternate scientific theory, for the very reason cited above. Besides, there's already a place you can learn all about creationism. Some people like to call it, "church," or there's even Sunday School.

Before you start bashing so-called, "moron scientists," you should probably take the time to learn and know what the hell you're talking about. Call me crazy, but it just may add validity to your argument.


Also, Moviefan: There's a thread about this in the Misc. Films Forum already, but it's more or less dead. I'll see if I can direct you there or get you a link, if for nothing else than to look at past discussion. I personally don't mind this topic being resurrected, I just thought you might want to see it.

EDIT: Here it is: http://forums.superherohype.com/show...light=expelled

These might help you illustrate the point.

VIDEO-CLick to Watch!:

VIDEO-CLick to Watch!:

VIDEO-CLick to Watch!:

[xwolverine2]

here we go into these technical discussions about unimportant crap...lol

[Carcharodon]

Originally Posted by xwolverine2

here we go into these technical discussions about unimportant crap...lol

...says the person posting on a comic-book movie message board.

[Carcharodon]

Originally Posted by WallCrawl

These might help you illustrate the point.

VIDEO-CLick to Watch!:

VIDEO-CLick to Watch!:

VIDEO-CLick to Watch!:

Fixed the vids.


Love the portions that point out that Abiogenesis and Evolution deal with completely different subjects, particularly in the second video. I've had to point this out so many times that I eventually had to quit; it's actually sort of intellectually exhausting.

Wow. I really used to think Stein was a smart guy, even after the initial release of this movie. Now that I've seen him make a complete moron of himself (gravity is somehow explained by Darwinian theory, as is the origin of life? Yeah...), I feel somehow let down.

[C.F. Kane]

Originally Posted by Moviefan2k4

Noted and respected author/commentator Ben Stein has recently unveiled a new documentary called "Expelled: No Intelligence Allowed". The subject of this film is both simple and complex, and it all hovers around one question, and the 2 main viewpoints seemingly at war with each other. It's one of the biggest questions humanity's ever had: "Where did we come from, and how did we get here?"

I recently viewed the trailer on the film's official website, and I have to say, it looks very compelling. I realize the very nature of this debate lights all sorts of fires in the hearts of mankind, but I thought I'd start a general discussion about the subject. For those who have seen Stein's documentary, feel free to speak up. For the rest of us who haven't, let's see where this goes.
If you prefer to see the trailer before viewing the website, here it is, courtesy of YouTube.

VIDEO-CLick to Watch!:

As with all posts on the SHH! board, I suggest we all remain respectful (no bashing or name-calling), and I think the mods would tend to agree with me. So, without further delay, let's get to it! =)

After that hellish "Ben Stein's letter" thread, I'm not sure I could take any more of this kind of stuff.

And I agree with Carcharodon. Explaining the principles of the scientific method over and over again in the hopes that ID will just scamper away is getting beyond tiresome.

[Danalys]

hmm war of attrition.

[Moviefan2k4]

As stated in my original post, all I've seen thus far is the trailer (and a clip from the website between Stein and Bill O'Reilly). From an intellectual standpoint, I think it's quite appropriate for Stein to give equal time to both sides of the discussion. Also, he made two very valid points...

1) Why is science often regarded as the only reliable method of getting answers?

2) If atheists, evolutionists, Darwinian theorists, agnostics, and others who don't believe in God have the freedom to exercise their First Amendment right to free speech in a public forum, without fear of mass repercussions...why can't we? Why are Christians, Messianic Jews, creationists, and similar people locked out of such a worldwide public concern?

[Carcharodon]

Originally Posted by Moviefan2k4

As stated in my original post, all I've seen thus far is the trailer (and a clip from the website between Stein and Bill O'Reilly). From an intellectual standpoint, I think it's quite appropriate for Stein to give equal time to both sides of the discussion. Also, he made two very valid points...

1) Why is science often regarded as the only reliable method of getting answers?

2) If atheists, evolutionists, Darwinian theorists, agnostics, and others who don't believe in God have the freedom to exercise their First Amendment right to free speech in a public forum, without fear of mass repercussions...why can't we? Why are Christians, Messianic Jews, creationists, and similar people locked out of such a worldwide public concern?

He doesn't give equal time to both sides of the discussion. In fact, he makes outright false statements that stem from his lack of understanding of the theory of evolution altogether. He's essentially lying to (misinforming) the audience, and trying to appeal to an already hugely biased group.

Watch the videos posted by WallCrawl.

Science isn't the, "only reliable method of getting answers." That was never the issue, in fact. The issue is trying to fit Intelligent Design into a science classroom curriculum when it isn't science. I don't know how many times I need to stress that point, but apparently one billion times just isn't enough.

As for your second question: nobody's inhibiting your right to speak in a public forum. The movie was released, was it not? That's one of the most frequently employed and feeble-minded argument that ever comes from religious groups, when in fact they're likely the most vocal of all the groups. They also happen to be a majority. The irony is that religious institutions have played the single largest role in the inhibition of scientific progress out of any group in history.

In short: stop whining. You guys already have a massive voice, but you can't stand it when a group that is smaller than you can shout louder and is backed not only by evidence, but by reason. You have representatives like Ben Stein...though after viewing those videos, I wouldn't consider that something to brag about.

[Danalys]

excuse me while i go argue for equal time for finger puppet theatre in gym class.

[Addendum]

Originally Posted by Danalys

excuse me while i go argue for equal time for finger puppet theatre in gym class.

I'll join you, but first I have to convince the art department to give tracing some much needed dap

[xwolverine2]

Originally Posted by Carcharodon

...says the person posting on a comic-book movie message board.

comic books > religion + science

[Dr. Evil]

The only reason Ben Stein is semi-famous in Hollywood is because of this:

VIDEO-CLick to Watch!:

Bueller? Bueller? Bueller?

[C.F. Kane]

If the Christian groups really wanted to give voices to all sides of the argument over humanity's origins like they said they would, then they should campaign to have evolution taught in schools, as well as the Abrahamic Creation myth.

And the Shinto myth of Izanagi and Izanami.

And the mating of Oranos and Gaia, the birth of the Titans, and the revolt led by Zeus against the elder gods and the establishment of the Gold and Silver races.

And the tale of Ymir, the eldest of the Frost Giants, who was slain by Odin and the world of Midgard built from his corpse.

And the cycles of the days of Brahma, the creator of the universe, and his incarnation of Vishnu, who has sustained the cosmos since the beginning of this universe's incarnation.

And the cycles of the five worlds of the Aztecs.

And the epic of Lord Xenu and his enslavement of humanity.

And the tale of the seven Endless and their role in the formation of the human psyche.

And the arrival of the Great Old Ones upon our plane from distant Yuggoth.

And the tales of the Eternals and their war against the Deviants.

And of course, the We All Came From A Giant Cupcake Made By Sparkles the Unicorn Theory set forth by Suzy Magillicutty, age 6, of Riverdale, Indiana.


So, we truly do need to consider *all* theories about the origin of the universe before accepting any one theory over another.

[Mister Sinister]

Originally Posted by Moviefan2k4

Noted and respected author/commentator Ben