Mark Millar's Many Thoughts On Superman

[Robin91939]

Originally Posted by Evildooer

This could be the 2nd best news I've heard all year!


Ditch Singer, Routh, Bonesworth, Spacey, and bring in real actors, a real badass action/drama director, and by the way since Millar wants an updated Superman bring on Tom Welling as SUPERMAN, and everything will be right again with the world of DC.



David Goyer is the Anti Christ! Seriously tho I don't like his directing but his writing is pretty good. But I wouldn't let him write it alone.

Get REAL actors and you cite that Tom Welling should be Superman? That's a contradiction. I like Welling, I do, but how can you say "Ditch SPACEY" that's Oscar Award Winner, Kevin Spacey, "and bring in REAL actors". That right there is not an intelligent sentence my friend. Kevin Spacey is one of, if not, the finest actors of our time, no need to recast him. Routh was GREAT as Superman, this is a pretty universal opinion, critics, fans, the mass public etc, no need to recast. Kate is a question mark. She was pretty good, but they did miss the Lois Lane mark a little with her. James Marsden as Richard White, he was really good, a great actor. The actor's weren't the problem. The only problem the film had was that fans, myself included were expecting a modern age Superman, not a silver age Superman.

-R

[Lord Blackbolt]

I don't like the idea of a revamp....That's what they should have done....but it's now too late . How will they address the little kid issue? And by the time they actually do a sequel...that kid from the first movie will be a teen by the time they start.

I am kinda dying to read what the old writers had planned. I hear Darksied was involved?.....

[Sun_Down]

This is interesting indeed. I love Millar's work at Marvel, but I have to say I've never read his DC work and he's definitely not the first guy I'd think of for Superman.

I'm glad to hear that they want to keep Routh and they're still referring to it as a sequel. More than that, I'm just glad to hear SOMETHING about this project moving forward.

Even if this doesn't pan out, I'm definitely interested in checking out whatever he's cooking up.

[BrollySupersj]

Originally Posted by aroundthefur33

why?

I'm not a man of change.

I like the donner universe, I don't think the Superman movie needs a revamp.

[SuperDaniel]

I`d sday Mark Millar, Mark Waid, Jeph Loeb, Paul Dini/Bruce Timm should be on the list of guys to write this movie...

[CGHulk]

I'm all for Millar to penn the screenplay!!

[Lord Blackbolt]

I think I remember Millar commenting on Superman Returns saying how the movie felt like it was the last in a franchise...and putting the kid is what most franchises do when they are on it's last legs and how Singer was wrong about doing that......

I many ways I thought he was right. That's why I'm wondering what he will do...Complete reboot...revamp...or revamped sequel?

[Sun_Down]

Originally Posted by Lord Blackbolt

I many ways I thought he was right. That's why I'm wondering what he will do...Complete reboot...revamp...or revamped sequel?

The story on the SHH frontpage made it sound like they're still considering it a sequel, with Routh likely to return. It may very well have a whole new feel, but it still appears to be a sequel.

[Dark Knight]

Originally Posted by Sun_Down

The story on the SHH frontpage made it sound like they're still considering it a sequel, with Routh likely to return. It may very well have a whole new feel, but it still appears to be a sequel.

Exactly.

I hope they try and get McQuarrie or Stephen Gaghan to write the screenplay with story consultation from Mark Waid, Jeph Loeb or Dini.

[LostSon88]

No revamp.

Just stick with what's been established and work some SERIOUS Superman mythology into it.

Keep Routh, Spacey and Bosworth...its not their fault SR underperformed.

I want a sequel to Superman Returns, not a re-start.

[SuperDaniel]

It will be a revamp...so says MM...

[TheComicbookKid]

This is from Millarworld itself. (Don't have the link now). Mark Millar's views on Supermaan and how would *FIX* him....

On his connection to Batman: "[Superman and Batman are] both orphans. They absolutely understand each other and know that there's nobody else they can count on as much as they other. PS I know Superman isn't an orphan in this dreadful period he's been under seige (from 1986 until Hitchy and I fix him again), but the true understanding of the character is, like Bambi, he loses his Mum and Dad again. All the iconic heroes do whether it's Superman, Bambi or Batman."

On why Bryan Hitch is his ideal Superman collaborator: "Hitchy's even worse than me. Although he looks much older and has trouble sleeping through the night without a piss, Hitchy is only three weeks younger than me. Thus, we grew up on the same Cary Bates Superman comics aged 6-14. Exactly the same comics. We were also 8 years old when we saw Superman and Hitch, like me, can repeat the entire movie line for line. You should hear our daily phone chats. They're a hymn to Superman. Fixing this mess has been our destiny. It'll happen. Not for a while, but it'll happen."

On Clark Kent: "Clark is a pair of glasses. Superman doesn't need glasses. He puts on the glasses for no practical reason; just to dress up and pretend to be this mid-westwern guy he's not as a means of rubbing shoulders with the people on this planet. Superman would have thought he was human until puberty. Until maybe 12. The easiest way to understand it is to think of Jesus in the temple and the moment where his mother has to tell him the truth. He always knew he was different and alone. This is when it was all explained to him. He could still love his parents, but Clark is him trying to understand what humans are all about. As Elliot Maggin puts it, Clark Kent is a living, breathing work of art."

On Lois Lane: "Superman doesn't love Lois. Clark loves Lois and Superman tries HARD to love Lois, but he can't because she's the wrong species. But he tries. Again, Maggin sums it up beautifully. It doesn't have to be complicated... Clark loves Lois, Lois loves Superman, Superman loves Clark [...] Perfect. This is also one of the reasons Superman shouldn't be married to Lois. It's just stupid. It makes no sense and destroys the whole dynamic. Superman is God, Jor-El is the Holy Spirit and Clark Kent is Jesus. The Kents are Mary and Joseph and Lois is Mary Magdelene. She's the NYC girl who's ____ed her way around the city and found nobody who measures up. She's just had it with men and is focusing on her career... then Superman shows up. This is why Margot Kidder was perfect for the role and why Lois should be played by someone around 30 even if Supes is being played by a 25 year old. You'll see what I mean when we fix it."

On the current version of the character: "[Kingdom Come] is close to perfect. Waid gets it. None of the other American writers do, though Loeb comes close. His only weakness is getting caught up in the whole farmboy thing. The farm is where he grew up and knew he was NOTHING LIKE THESE PEOPLE. He affects it for the Clark persona, but that's it. He's as Kryptonian as Jesus is divine. Did Jesus shag Mary Mag? I don't think so. Superman should never shag Lois. It's insane and what happens when artists start touching tyoewriters. Jimmy is the reader-identification figure and the comedy relief. PS I'm saving everything else for the launch. No other ideas from me here, I'm afraid, in case some ____ nicks em."

On mixing metaphors: "No brimstone for Superman. He's interesting enough without it. He sees Earth the way immigrants saw America 100 years ago. He sees a chance for hope and a new life after losing his homeland as a kid. He loves people because he recognizes their great potential and, like Krypton, he wants to encourage them towards the Utopia his father sent him from. Forget Byrne. Read the Bible."

On the previous pitch Millar had made with Grant Morrison, Mark Waid and Tom Peyer: "The pitch we did was very late 90s and all the things I WOULDN'T do if Superman was being revamped now. It was nice, but it was the whole retro 60s thing that Grant's into as opposed to what I'd want to do myself. This thing was pretty good, but would be absolutely wrong for now. It still had Superman married to Lois and all that ____. There was another draft Mark Waid added with Earth getting a mind-wipe to forget that stuff and it had some nice touches, but I'd just start from scratch."

On how close Superman is to humanity: "Humans were apes less than 50 million years ago. Kryptonians are what we'd be like in 20 billion years. I have this all worked out as part of the proposal. In the last two years, I've filled two entire ring-binders with the plan. There's some AMAZING stuff in here. Hitch has also been doing little design doodles for the last five years. It's fate that we met."


This was Millar in an interview from 2004. I found this on newsarama which was originally from MILLARWORLD. It's a wizard interview.

[Nightwing1977]

I don't want Millar writing the Superman movie. Some of his ideas made me feel uneasy. If they went with what he did, some of you guys would've wish Harris & Dougherty stay. Millar made did a great job on Red Son, but you guys should know that isn't the same Superman we love. Just an elseworld tale that isn't Superman like he is in the regular DC universe & the movies. Get someone like Mark Waid or Geoff Johns. I think they would've done it better than Millar. Thought that nice Millar would do the script for free.

[SuperDaniel]

I read what he said and i loved it. Especially this:

"No brimstone for Superman. He's interesting enough without it. He sees Earth the way immigrants saw America 100 years ago. He sees a chance for hope and a new life after losing his homeland as a kid. He loves people because he recognizes their great potential and, like Krypton, he wants to encourage them towards the Utopia his father sent him from. Forget Byrne. Read the Bible."

This is Superman to me.

[bgshw44]

who ever comes up with the best SEQUEL to SR im all for.

[sepharih]

I actually really enjoy and agree with most of his ideas. Really...it basically reads to me as “I want to give Superman his cohones back”.

The only thing I feel uneasy about are his ideas towards the relationship with Batman. Sorry, but Frank Miller explained it perfectly. Superman believes that there is a natural order to the world, that people are basically good, and that the only way this order is disrupted is when bad people try to affect it. Batman believes that the natural state of the world is entropy, and that the only way the world has any order or sense is when you instill a sense of order upon it, and when you force it too make sense. I don’t care how you try and spin it, or whatever identification they might have as “orphans”. These two characters would not like each other.

[SuperDaniel]

Well..to me they are both heroes and both want the same thing: Earth to be a better place.

So i dont see why they would hate each other.

Frank Miller isnt always right...

[Sub-Zero]

Originally Posted by Octoberist

why did you come from? A world where Trinity was the best Blade film? Strange land, I must say. lol.

u misinterpreted that. haven't even seen trinity. it looked really really bad.

[matrix_ghost]

Well it's obviously good news that a comic writer has expressed his interested in writing the script for the sequel.
Having said that , i'm not sure this could work
He may write a script that that is actually closer to the comics and finally explores other characters ( such as braniac , darkseid etc) . But that doesn't mean that it can be realised on screen. Comics and movies are two different mediums . You have free reign to make a comic with all cool action scenes.
You don't have free reign when making a movie. Money plays a big role and it can very well turn out to be too expensive. Millar can probably rewrite the script so that it can have a budget that isn't sky-high but that doesn't mean that he'll sacrifice the story. You can only go so far with the story and once he's come to a point where he feels that he's screwing up the character he'll probably bail.

Or not. But the thing is , money plays a large role here. I hope that he considers that when writing the script.

[sepharih]

Originally Posted by SpiderDaniel

Well..to me they are both heroes and both want the same thing: Earth to be a better place.

So i dont see why they would hate each other.

Frank Miller isnt always right...

Oh goodness sakes no. Miller is far from always right. And, “hate” is a strong word.

Still, it’s been applied by so many other writers who’ve ever done Superman and Batman team ups for a good reason I think.
My impression has always been that yes, these two characters do want the same thing (stated perfectly in Kingdom Come), but they have such radically different means to achieve the same end that they just can’t see eye to eye. My impression is that they want to like each other...but they’re completely unable to. Their entire outlooks on life and on the human race are just so conflicting that they just wind up pissing each other off with one’s naive optimism and the others hardened realism.
Plus, even if it wasn’t the most logical direction, I still think it’s a much more interesting dynamic personally.

[Sub-Zero]

Originally Posted by matrix_ghost

Well it's obviously good news that a comic writer has expressed his interested in writing the script for the sequel.

Having said that , i'm not sure this could work

He may write a script that that is actually closer to the comics and finally explores other characters ( such as braniac , darkseid etc) . But that doesn't mean that it can be realised on screen. Comics and movies are two different mediums . You have free reign to make a comic with all cool action scenes.

You don't have free reign when making a movie. Money plays a big role and it can very well turn out to be too expensive. Millar can probably rewrite the script so that it can have a budget that isn't sky-high but that doesn't mean that he'll sacrifice the story. You can only go so far with the story and once he's come to a point where he feels that he's screwing up the character he'll probably bail.



Or not. But the thing is , money plays a large role here. I hope that he considers that when writing the script.

money is a huge factor. since sr didn't do as well as expected i'm betting the budget will be much lower for this movie. as long as they get rid of the kid, get rid of the donner approach, and make superman more than someone who lifts things really high we can get a good superman movie

[ervann]

Originally Posted by TheComicbookKid

This is from Millarworld itself. (Don't have the link now). Mark Millar's views on Supermaan and how would *FIX* him....

On his connection to Batman: "[Superman and Batman are] both orphans. They absolutely understand each other and know that there's nobody else they can count on as much as they other. PS I know Superman isn't an orphan in this dreadful period he's been under seige (from 1986 until Hitchy and I fix him again), but the true understanding of the character is, like Bambi, he loses his Mum and Dad again. All the iconic heroes do whether it's Superman, Bambi or Batman."

On why Bryan Hitch is his ideal Superman collaborator: "Hitchy's even worse than me. Although he looks much older and has trouble sleeping through the night without a piss, Hitchy is only three weeks younger than me. Thus, we grew up on the same Cary Bates Superman comics aged 6-14. Exactly the same comics. We were also 8 years old when we saw Superman and Hitch, like me, can repeat the entire movie line for line. You should hear our daily phone chats. They're a hymn to Superman. Fixing this mess has been our destiny. It'll happen. Not for a while, but it'll happen."

On Clark Kent: "Clark is a pair of glasses. Superman doesn't need glasses. He puts on the glasses for no practical reason; just to dress up and pretend to be this mid-westwern guy he's not as a means of rubbing shoulders with the people on this planet. Superman would have thought he was human until puberty. Until maybe 12. The easiest way to understand it is to think of Jesus in the temple and the moment where his mother has to tell him the truth. He always knew he was different and alone. This is when it was all explained to him. He could still love his parents, but Clark is him trying to understand what humans are all about. As Elliot Maggin puts it, Clark Kent is a living, breathing work of art."

On Lois Lane: "Superman doesn't love Lois. Clark loves Lois and Superman tries HARD to love Lois, but he can't because she's the wrong species. But he tries. Again, Maggin sums it up beautifully. It doesn't have to be complicated... Clark loves Lois, Lois loves Superman, Superman loves Clark [...] Perfect. This is also one of the reasons Superman shouldn't be married to Lois. It's just stupid. It makes no sense and destroys the whole dynamic. Superman is God, Jor-El is the Holy Spirit and Clark Kent is Jesus. The Kents are Mary and Joseph and Lois is Mary Magdelene. She's the NYC girl who's ____ed her way around the city and found nobody who measures up. She's just had it with men and is focusing on her career... then Superman shows up. This is why Margot Kidder was perfect for the role and why Lois should be played by someone around 30 even if Supes is being played by a 25 year old. You'll see what I mean when we fix it."

On the current version of the character: "[Kingdom Come] is close to perfect. Waid gets it. None of the other American writers do, though Loeb comes close. His only weakness is getting caught up in the whole farmboy thing. The farm is where he grew up and knew he was NOTHING LIKE THESE PEOPLE. He affects it for the Clark persona, but that's it. He's as Kryptonian as Jesus is divine. Did Jesus shag Mary Mag? I don't think so. Superman should never shag Lois. It's insane and what happens when artists start touching tyoewriters. Jimmy is the reader-identification figure and the comedy relief. PS I'm saving everything else for the launch. No other ideas from me here, I'm afraid, in case some ____ nicks em."

On mixing metaphors: "No brimstone for Superman. He's interesting enough without it. He sees Earth the way immigrants saw America 100 years ago. He sees a chance for hope and a new life after losing his homeland as a kid. He loves people because he recognizes their great potential and, like Krypton, he wants to encourage them towards the Utopia his father sent him from. Forget Byrne. Read the Bible."

On the previous pitch Millar had made with Grant Morrison, Mark Waid and Tom Peyer: "The pitch we did was very late 90s and all the things I WOULDN'T do if Superman was being revamped now. It was nice, but it was the whole retro 60s thing that Grant's into as opposed to what I'd want to do myself. This thing was pretty good, but would be absolutely wrong for now. It still had Superman married to Lois and all that ____. There was another draft Mark Waid added with Earth getting a mind-wipe to forget that stuff and it had some nice touches, but I'd just start from scratch."

On how close Superman is to humanity: "Humans were apes less than 50 million years ago. Kryptonians are what we'd be like in 20 billion years. I have this all worked out as part of the proposal. In the last two years, I've filled two entire ring-binders with the plan. There's some AMAZING stuff in here. Hitch has also been doing little design doodles for the last five years. It's fate that we met."


This was Millar in an interview from 2004. I found this on newsarama which was originally from MILLARWORLD. It's a wizard interview.

WB execs will so not get this, which is why I don't think MM getting the job.

[matrix_ghost]

Originally Posted by Sub-Zero

money is a huge factor. since sr didn't do as well as expected i'm betting the budget will be much lower for this movie. as long as they get rid of the kid, get rid of the donner approach, and make superman more than someone who lifts things really high we can get a good superman movie

I dunno if a superman sequel can be made with a budget lower then 180 million. I've argued again and again that there is a big difference with movies like SR and TF in terms of action. Many people think that just because it worked with TF , it should also work with the sequel. For starters TF has sponsoring from GM , the US military worked with and Bay decided to shoot stuff in camera. Metal surfaces are also much easier to create then organic stuff. Those things meant that TF could be made for a much lower number then SR. And the sequel will not have that any of those. They'll start from scratch.

Recently Jon Favreau was interviewed and he was talking about the very same thing. AMongst other things of Iron Man , he mentioned that it was abig help that Iron Man isn't a CG human. Just metal surfaces which ultmately means they can make the movie cheaper. Organic creations such as CG humans are much much harder to pull of an you can see that in your VFX budget.

If i want to see just how much a movie will cost , i look at similar movies.In this case movies like Spiderman and POTC this both of those featured extensive use of CG human(oids ). The budgets of sequels were all above the 200 million mark with POTC 3 even hitting 300 million.
And they were shot traditionally , with real sets .

They didn't take the 300/Lucas approach where most of the shooting is done behind green screens. I think that the only way to make a superman movie for less then 200 million is if you take that method . That way a big chunk ofyour budget goes into the VFX and these days with budgets getting bigger and bigger because of the VFX , you need to find ways to control that.
The 300-shooting style is one of those methods.
Even James Cameron is doing the same thing with Avatar. And guess how big his budget is :
195 million

[sepharih]

Originally Posted by ervann

WB execs will so not get this, which is why I don't think MM getting the job.

Yeah...I'm kind of thinking the same thing.

Side note, I'm kind of 50/50 on his ideas towards Superman being an orphan and loosing both of his parents.
On the one hand, I see where he's going with this and I see how it makes sense with the direction he has in mind. Most of the great heroes have lost someone close to them. Batman lost his parents and any number of other partners/lovers/friends. Spidey lost his uncle Ben and Gwen. Makes sense.
Now on the other hand, part of what makes Superman so unique to me is that he's one of the only heroes where death has no motivating factor. True, his origin requires genocide of a worldwide scale, but that's not why he's motivated to be Superman.
Superman didn't need a tragic death to motivate him to become Superman...he just is.

[Sub-Zero]

^^ you're right, but they've invested so much money in failed superman projects that a movie with a budget as big as sr that might tank is a big risk to take.

millar is just writing a treatment and trying to pitch his idea. everyone is talking like he'll get the job if he talks to wb. wb is pretty stupid, but they did agree to make batman begins, the best comicbook based movie. sr could have been great but they took too many liberties with the characters. a requel(not a typo) to a 25 yr old movie was just a bad idea.