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Old 08-31-2013, 03:43 AM   #276
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Default Re: Who thought SM2 was Overrated?

Me too.

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Old 08-31-2013, 11:04 AM   #277
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Default Re: Who thought SM2 was Overrated?

Then why have it? LOL

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Old 08-31-2013, 06:32 PM   #278
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Default Re: Who thought SM2 was Overrated?

Good question!

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Old 08-31-2013, 06:51 PM   #279
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Good question!
Show your love for Spidey 3. Put it as your avatar.

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Old 04-13-2014, 11:19 PM   #280
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Default Re: Who thought SM2 was Overrated?

I just watched the first two again in anticipation for TASM2 and while I still adore the first film, the second still leaves me totally baffled by it's praise.

I WANT to love Spider-Man 2 like most fans. I truly do-but I feel like I'm watching a totally different movie than most people. I still see an unevenly paced, poorly acted, overly daytime soap opera film with some genuinely amazing set pieces thrown in to add to my confusion.

When Spidey is in motion, I love the film. The production is better than the first by a wide margin...but when Peter has to talk to anyone, I just face-palm. I don't get what happened. The first film is cheesy, but I feel that the "gee-golly" tone and dialogue was better written and acted by everyone. The lighter tone is just smoother in every regard. Peter has more of a personality and his humor is mostly intact, which I think people overlook in the film. Maguire and Dunst actually seem to share a chemistry in the film. But when they share scenes in the second, it is literally painfully awkward and stiff. There is NOTHING there between them. I just don't think the film did a good job of extending the relationship in a realistic way. I understand why they aren't on the same page, but the film never does a good job or making me CARE or get invested. It felt like they were on again, off again simply for the reason of creating drama and it didn't feel organic.
Add to that the absolutely head-shakingly stilted dialogue the two of them had to spit out didn't help.

Alfred Molina just grandstands with no charisma of charm and damn near every single encounter Peter has with people is overwritten with morals, lessons and exposition. Exposition doesn't irk me like it does some people. But the exposition in this film stops it cold numerous times. Octavious, his wife, Aunt May, Ghost Ben, and even some random ass doctor simply tell Peter how he's feeling/should feel/ should do/is doing. No subtly, no charm. Rosemary Harris is the only one that can deliver this overwritten tripe with class. Everyone else just feels like their reading for a big budget soap opera.

And do we really have to get into how utterly atrocious MJ is written here? In the first film she has the makings of a good character but this film steps all over that and turns her into nothing but a shell-a goal for Peter to accomplish at the end. Her relationship with John is never put into any sort of context. I'm not saying the film had to be half about their relationship, but just like Peters and her relationship, the whole marriage thing feels tacked on just to make Peters life more miserable than it is and it's not organic. She never seems happy with him or into him in the slightest. She almost comes off like she's marrying him just to piss Peter off. Not to mention her smiling all bright and cheery as she ditches John ON THE ALTER. Is this supposed to be sweet and romantic? What in the hell? She is by far the most underwritten female character in a superhero franchise. At least Rachel Dawes had her own motivations and ideals, even if she's not all that well defined.

Peter's lose of power never rings true and the extended portion of him being powerless drags on needlessly and just kills any momentum the plot had built up. Not to mention the GLEEFUL look on his face as he walks away from a mugging, chomping on his hotdog is unforgivable. Not just to the comic character, but the character the previous film established. The film just stops cold to turn into some thoughtful exploration of the man behind the mask, but the writing isn't nearly strong enough to pull this off.

Like I said, I don't get it. And I desperately want to. Most fans see one of the most exceptional films of the genre. I see a sloppy, drab and unlikable film with great production values.


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Old 04-14-2014, 09:30 AM   #281
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Great superhero movie, nice script and acting. But it has it's dull moments, and it's my least favourite of the trilogy.

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Old 04-23-2014, 02:17 PM   #282
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Just watched this a few days ago in anticipation of ASM2 and it's still one of my favorite CBMs. Top 5 probably. But I can't stand Kirsten Dunst and her relationship with Peter. Their entire relationship just seems fake and Dunst has no character at all. I also felt like, Spider-Man the character was lacking. He just seemed like anybody under the mask. He has a lot of personality in the first one, but he just seems a little more liveless in this one. Everything else was awesome, especially the fight scenes.

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Old 04-23-2014, 02:29 PM   #283
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Just watched this a few days ago in anticipation of ASM2 and it's still one of my favorite CBMs. Top 5 probably. But I can't stand Kirsten Dunst and her relationship with Peter. Their entire relationship just seems fake and Dunst has no character at all. I also felt like, Spider-Man the character was lacking. He just seemed like anybody under the mask. He has a lot of personality in the first one, but he just seems a little more liveless in this one. Everything else was awesome, especially the fight scenes.
That's harsh for one of your top 5 CBM's lol

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Old 04-23-2014, 02:31 PM   #284
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That's harsh for one of your top 5 CBM's lol
LOL, ya I was thinking the same thing. "The characters suck but it's one my favorites!"

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Old 04-23-2014, 02:43 PM   #285
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That's harsh for one of your top 5 CBM's lol
Lol. It does sound harsh now that I read it. But in all honesty, everything else makes up for those 2 things. Never really liked Kirsten's MJ, but her character isn't going to kill it for me. Spider Man was amazing to watch as he fought and moved, but I missed the quibs. I can't recall a single one now that I think about it. But the story was well written, Alfred did an amazing job, and the pacing was nice. Plus you really felt the everyday struggle that Peter Parker faces with being a superhero and trying to make normal life work.

But Andrew's Spider-Man is why I rank Amazing Spider Man above Spider Man 2. Amazing Spider Man, felt like Spider Man. He had the personality that was lacking in 2.

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Old 04-23-2014, 02:48 PM   #286
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Its my favourite of the original trilogy. However Kirsten Dunst is atrocious and so is her character. I couldn't help but feel sorry for John Jameson the entire time. Furthermore, there was no chemistry between Dunst and Maguire for a film which is "all about a girl". Having said that, I loved Doc Ock and the action sequences. I believe the film deserves praise for sure, but I can see how it can be overrated especially when viewed against SM3 for example.

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Old 04-23-2014, 02:59 PM   #287
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Best Spidey movie ever by a looooong way. It doesn't fail on levels like the other Spidey movies did like corny villain costume and not overly impressive fight scenes (SM-1), or Peter acting like a douche, a lame villain, and ugly Spidey costume (TASM), or even more lame villains and rushed messy plot (TASM 2), or cheesy dance scenes and stupid retcon of Uncle Ben's death (SM-3).

Yup Spidey 2 is still the king of the Spidey movies. I reckon it will be for years to come.

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Old 04-23-2014, 03:05 PM   #288
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Best Spidey movie ever by a looooong way. It doesn't fail on levels like the other Spidey movies did like corny villain costume and not overly impressive fight scenes (SM-1), or Peter acting like a douche, a lame villain, and ugly Spidey costume (TASM), or even more lame villains and rushed messy plot (TASM 2), or cheesy dance scenes and stupid retcon of Uncle Ben's death (SM-3).

Yup Spidey 2 is still the king of the Spidey movies. I reckon it will be for years to come.
At least SM1, ASM, and ASM2 had a Spider-Man who was funny.

Doc Ock actually had more quips than Spidey.

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Old 04-23-2014, 03:09 PM   #289
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At least SM1, ASM, and ASM2 had a Spider-Man who was funny.
Heh I'd take a Spidey who's lower on the quips over one that acts like a douche, or has emo style hair and dances any day of the week. That's why Spidey 2 is the king over them. Likeable hero. Though SM-1 was good for that, too, but he ain't much more heavy on the quips than he was in 2. Spidey had his share in 2. "Here's your change", "I have a knack for that", "It rides up in the crotch"...

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Doc Ock actually had more quips than Spidey.
Name all of Doc Ock's quips.


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Old 04-23-2014, 04:17 PM   #290
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Default Re: Who thought SM2 was Overrated?

Except no. See, you, as a Spider-Man fan, are extracting Spidey-The-Witty-Guy from those tiny tiny awful attempts. People who don't know what Spider-Man's all about will walk out of that movie not knowing Spider-Man is supposed to be funny. Just that he's a total dork and has a crush.

Also, "It rides up in the crotch" is a perfect example of why I don't like Raimi's Spider-Man movies. The humor comes from the scene and directed at Spidey instead of Spidey himself directing the humor outward.

The REAL Spider-Man stuck in an elevator would be leaning on the wall, legs crossed like "Yo!" to the guy walking on. Not looking away shamefully while slurring through a stupid line.

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Old 04-23-2014, 04:20 PM   #291
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Default Re: Who thought SM2 was Overrated?

It'll be a cold day in hell when Spider-Man 2 is overrated. It is the gold standard for Spider-Man movies, and having seen all the Spider-Man movies several times now, I can say definitively that it has not come close to being topped yet.

Is it perfect? No. But the pros FAR out weigh the minor cons it has.

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Old 04-23-2014, 04:21 PM   #292
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Spider-Man 2 was an amazingly directed piece of cinema art....

that sucks as a Spider-Man movie.

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Old 04-23-2014, 04:22 PM   #293
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Heh I'd take a Spidey who's lower on the quips over one that acts like a douche, or has emo style hair and dances any day of the week. That's why Spidey 2 is the king over them. Likeable hero. Though SM-1 was good for that, too, but he ain't much more heavy on the quips than he was in 2. Spidey had his share in 2. "Here's your change", "I have a knack for that", "It rides up in the crotch"...



Name all of Doc Ock's quips.
Likeability is debatable. They didn't get Spidey's humour right in SM2 at all. "Here's your change!" and that was all folks.

"butter fingers!"
"You've stuck your webs into my business for the last time!"
"You have a train to catch"
The ones that come to mind. His quips is what is iconic about the character and other than one quip, ONE QUIP it wasn't there. It's just some guy dressesed as Spider-Man

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Old 04-23-2014, 04:25 PM   #294
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Likeability is debatable. They didn't get Spidey's humour right in SM2 at all. "Here's your change!" and that was all folks.

"butter fingers!"
"You've stuck your webs into my business for the last time!"
"You have a train to catch"
The ones that come to mind. His quips is what is iconic about the character and other than one quip, ONE QUIP it wasn't there. It's just some guy dressesed as Spider-Man
Yeah, exactly.

I don't even think Spider-Man 1 was a good example. Once again, it's the fans picking out the one or 2 tiny times it kind of not really came through. It was an awful demonstration of his true personality. Imagine showing someone a Raimi Spider-Man and saying "Isn't Spidey a funny witty guy!?", they'd be like "Did we watch the same movie?".

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Old 04-23-2014, 04:27 PM   #295
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Spider-Man 2 was an amazingly directed piece of cinema art....

that sucks as a Spider-Man movie.
You're half right. It's every bit as amazing as a Spider-Man movie as it is as a movie. Spider-Man not spouting one liners all the time is the most minor petty complaint. If he had none at all then it would be valid but he had several.

Spider-Man breaking a promise to a dead man, Peter acting like an a-hole to people around him, Harry being the Goblin before Norman, The Lizard having no family etc are all bigger more important things that were wrong or missing from the Spider-Man mythology.

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Likeability is debatable. They didn't get Spidey's humour right in SM2 at all. "Here's your change!" and that was all folks.
No folks, it wasn't. The others were also mentioned like the riding up the crotch line, and the I have a knack for that quip.

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"butterfingers!"
"You've stuck your webs into my business for the last time!"
"You have a train to catch"
The ones that come to mind. His quips is what is iconic about the character and other than one quip, ONE QUIP it wasn't there. It's just some guy dressesed as Spider-Man
Let me get this straight, you ignore the heroics, the moral code of the character, the honoring of great power with great responsibility etc, and pin everything that makes Spider-Man who he is down to his quips?

No offense but if you do then you severely lack understanding of who Spider-Man is.

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Old 04-23-2014, 04:28 PM   #296
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I find Tobey and Dunst to be wholly unlikable. Especially in SM2. Peter ignores Uncle Ben and gets his powers back when MJ is kidnapped. MJ leaves John at the alter. Any time they speak to each other it's with will-they-won't-they cliches (seriously, WHY do they like each other?) and sometimes altogether nonsense. I saw that movie several times a few years back and I have yet to figure out what "I was wondering... if you're still... in the village." means.

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Old 04-23-2014, 04:33 PM   #297
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I find Tobey and Dunst to be wholly unlikable. Especially in SM2.
I find them to be wholly likeable. Esp in SM-2. Oh yeah.

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Peter ignores Uncle Ben and gets his powers back when MJ is kidnapped.
Nope. Peter got his powers back before that and decided to be Spidey again, that's why he rejected her in the cafe.

Soz.

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MJ leaves John at the alter.
That was sucky of her of but she's done sucky things to guys in the comics too including poor 'ol Peter.

Remember when she laughed him off first time he proposed to her? Tsk tsk MJ.

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Any time they speak to each other it's with will-they-won't-they cliches (seriously, WHY do they like each other?) and sometimes altogether nonsense. I saw that movie several times a few years back and I have yet to figure out what "I was wondering... if you're still... in the village." means.
Ehhh it means is she still living in the Village. Seriously come up with valid complaints mon ami.

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Old 04-23-2014, 04:33 PM   #298
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Let me get this straight, you ignore the heroics, the moral code of the character, the honoring of great power with great responsibility etc, and pin everything that makes Spider-Man who he is down to his quips?

No offense but if you do then you severely lack understanding of who Spider-Man is.
Strawman argument like whoa^

Also, watch the movie closer. Spider-Man ignores his moral code and gets his powers back when MJ is kidnapped. Or did you miss the line in SM1 at the very beginning of the movie where he goes "This story is all about a girl.... that girl... Mary Jane Watson".

Pff. Raimi's Spider-Man.

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Old 04-23-2014, 04:35 PM   #299
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Nope. Peter got his powers back before that and decided to be Spidey again, that's why he rejected her in the cafe.
No, he falls off the building onto a car. Watch it again mon cheri.

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Old 04-23-2014, 04:38 PM   #300
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Strawman argument like whoa^
Strawman in what way?

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Also, watch the movie closer. Spider-Man ignores his moral code and gets his powers back when MJ is kidnapped.
No he doesn't. The only time he ignores his moral code is when he has given up being Spider-Man in favor of a normal life. You know like he did in the comics.

His powers did not come back when MJ was kidnapped. They came back when he made the jump off the roof and fell and hurt his back. He'd have been dead if not for his spider powers after that fall.

Second, the whole theme of the movie and how his story paralleled with Doc Ock's was how Peter was being irresponsible by giving up being Spider-Man to live his dream of a normal life, while Ock was doing evil things in order to make his dream succeed.

That's the kind of brilliance we're talking about here with this movie.

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Or did you miss the line in SM1 at the very beginning of the movie where he goes "This story is all about a girl.... that girl... Mary Jane Watson".
Of course I heard it. But his actions were not defined by that as the movies clearly showed.

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Pff. Raimi's Spider-Man.
The best.

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