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Old 09-10-2008, 07:30 PM   #26
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Default Re: Who thought SM2 was Overrated?

I found it overrated, but I've heard the fans gab on and on long enough to understand why they think it's as great as they say it is. Still, I don't get how some are saying Spider-Man 3 was better. The last film was like watching two trains colliding in slow motion. The worst scenes in SM2 make for a better experience than watching SM3's best ones.

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Old 09-12-2008, 05:09 PM   #27
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Default Re: Who thought SM2 was Overrated?

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Originally Posted by The Chibi Kiriyama View Post
I found it overrated, but I've heard the fans gab on and on long enough to understand why they think it's as great as they say it is. Still, I don't get how some are saying Spider-Man 3 was better. The last film was like watching two trains colliding in slow motion. The worst scenes in SM2 make for a better experience than watching SM3's best ones.
Yeah but I would never buy SM2 or SM3. SM2 is really overrated, it was okay to me, though some parts were slower than others and really boring. SM3 was twice as bad, the plot really didn't make sense to me and there was just too much CGI used pointlessly.

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Old 09-16-2008, 06:06 AM   #28
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Are you kidding me? The fight between Spidey and Doc Ock on the train is easily the best fight scene in any comic movie ever.

The prob with spider-man 2 is that the train fight is TOO good. They made a great fight scene and then the final fight with ock was kinda too short and lame. They really needed to either somehow make the train scene the final fight or to somehow make a fight scene that topped that for the finale.

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Old 09-16-2008, 07:23 PM   #29
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Default Re: Who thought SM2 was Overrated?

Well what was better in The Dark Knight, the 18 wheeler chase with the batpod, or the tower fight? Then the movie ends with a final climax with two face that was nowhere near as good as those last two scenes.

To me the fight was fine where it was. What happened in the climax needed to happen. I don't think it hurts the movie.

What hurts Spider-man 3 was that Spider-man 2 was so good and like I said in 2004, there was no way they could top it.

Spider-man 2 wasn't overrated, and in all the fervor over Dark Knight people forget how bold Spider-man 2 was in execution in dealing so much with the psychology of a superhero or a Marvel. Something The Hulk tried and failed to do in 2003.

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Old 09-16-2008, 11:48 PM   #30
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Default Re: Who thought SM2 was Overrated?

The fight sequances are good. That and a couple of actor specific scenes are the only genuine merrit of the movie.

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Spider-man 2 wasn't overrated, and in all the fervor over Dark Knight people forget how bold Spider-man 2 was in execution in dealing so much with the psychology of a superhero or a Marvel. Something The Hulk tried and failed to do in 2003.
I rather think the contrary.
If there was any superhero psychology in SM2, it was only tapped into.
2003 Hulk was about psychology. And it portrayed Banner's inner state visualy more often than with dialogue exposition.

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Old 09-17-2008, 10:49 PM   #31
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Default Re: Who thought SM2 was Overrated?

There were a lot of great visual metaphors in Spider-man 2, so I have to disagree.

And well, people just generally didn't like or get The Hulk.

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Old 09-17-2008, 10:58 PM   #32
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Default Re: Who thought SM2 was Overrated?

I thought Spider-man 2 was the first real comic book film to examine the person behind the hero. I think that in that respect it set the standard and enabled films like The Dark Knight to tackle that subject. Thanks to Spider-man 2,people saw that comic book movies can be more than just fun,but psychological.

That's my opinion,anyway.

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Old 09-23-2008, 12:39 PM   #33
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Default Re: Who thought SM2 was Overrated?

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I rather think the contrary.
If there was any superhero psychology in SM2, it was only tapped into.
2003 Hulk was about psychology. And it portrayed Banner's inner state visualy more often than with dialogue exposition.
Agreed about Hulk.

On topic, I think the really overrated Spidey movie is SM1

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Old 09-24-2008, 06:33 AM   #34
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Default Re: Who thought SM2 was Overrated?

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Agreed about Hulk.

On topic, I think the really overrated Spidey movie is SM1
Overrated? I didn't know it was overrated.

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Old 09-25-2008, 02:46 AM   #35
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Default Re: Who thought SM2 was Overrated?

Spidey 2 really let me down; I want to see a different type of Spider-man. One thing I always loved about the comics was Spidey's hilarious wit during his confrontations with J Jonah or the villains. That's part of his charm, but it's one major element that's missing from his character. The Spidey I saw in 2 was depressed for half of the film, and I didn't enjoy that kind of direction.

Also, Doc Ock was miscast in my opinion. I'm sorry, but Alfred Molina isn't the mad scientist I had hoped for. The ending also let me down; Star Wars fans waited 30 years to hear 'NO!', and one of things that ruined the sequel for me was hearing Ock yell the same thing.

In my opinion, Raimi topped himself with the 1st one, but in all fairness, I don't think that he was given the proper assistance with the 3rd. No director should have a character forced on him. The irony is that with Raimi's horror background, I would've thought that he would actually GET Venom.

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Old 09-30-2008, 05:30 AM   #36
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Default Re: Who thought SM2 was Overrated?

^^ Peter was usually depressed in the comics. Read some of the very early ones, things may be good, and he may have a lot of quips, but his life really sucks most of the time.

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Old 10-12-2008, 06:20 PM   #37
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Default Re: Who thought SM2 was Overrated?

Saw part of it again last night on TV. I totally forgot about the part where he goes to save the little girl in the burning building. He jumps over the ledge and catches it with one hand, flings her up, and then........she pulls him up! God that was awful! I like SM2, but there are some truly bad moments in it.

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Old 10-13-2008, 11:25 AM   #38
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Default Re: Who thought SM2 was Overrated?

S-M2, IMO, set the ground work for superhero films to come. We got to see how hard it is for Peter to have a balanced life as Spider-Man or Peter parker. It seemed as though he could only choose one, Peter or Spidey. What Peter had to learn was duality, and that was the many great factors of S-M2 and one of the things that made it what it is. This film got fantastic review, 93% on the Tamatoe Meter, and as I said, it deserves every bit of it.

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Old 10-13-2008, 11:26 AM   #39
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Default Re: Who thought SM2 was Overrated?

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Originally Posted by Batman137 View Post
SM2 was very good in terms of screenplay and acting.

But the action and CGI in my view was not too good. Doc Ock looked very fake on some of his CGI scenes.

Am I the only one?
other way round for me

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Old 10-13-2008, 10:19 PM   #40
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Default Re: Who thought SM2 was Overrated?

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other way round for me
Same here. The main problem with Spider-Man 2 is that if you cut out the entire middle act for Peter, you'd still get the same result at the end of the film.

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Old 10-16-2008, 12:04 AM   #41
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Default Re: Who thought SM2 was Overrated?

I was bored by Spider-Man 2. I still think its the worst of the trilogy. Yes, I said that!

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Old 10-16-2008, 08:27 AM   #42
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Default Re: Who thought SM2 was Overrated?

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Originally Posted by Batman137 View Post
SM2 was very good in terms of screenplay and acting.

But the action and CGI in my view was not too good. Doc Ock looked very fake on some of his CGI scenes.

Am I the only one?
Agreed.
People praised Spiderman 2 to be the best superhero movie ever.
While still excellent in story and acting, some CGI looked too fake (like the scene where Doctor Octopus kidnapping MJ in middle of the Manhattan street) and some parts were too boring.
Also in my opinion not enough action scenes.
I think Spiderman2 is overrated,too.

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Old 10-16-2008, 09:00 AM   #43
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Default Re: Who thought SM2 was Overrated?

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People praised Spiderman 2 to be the best superhero movie ever.
It was until The Dark Knight came along.

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Old 10-16-2008, 09:30 AM   #44
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Default Re: Who thought SM2 was Overrated?

What's your point Joker?

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Old 04-19-2013, 12:13 AM   #45
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Default Re: Who thought SM2 was Overrated?

I have always felt Spider-Man 2 was incredibly disappointing from opening day in 2004. It has garnered the most baffling amount of praise for years and I simply don't see why or how. Like, I literally can't see why!

The CGI is better and the action is rather dazzling, but that's where the good stops imo.

The first Spider-Man film may be a bit dated and cheesy now, but it stills works for the most part because it:

1. Struck a balance between the comic-booky-ness and the drama
2. Maguire, Dunst, Franco, Dafoe...all felt like they gave a damn.
3. Maguire and Dunst actually had chemistry and appeal that sold us on the somewhat campy dialogue.

Spider-Man 2 loses ALL of this. I know Spider-Man is a character who is constantly getting the short end of the stick. It's a staple of the comic and the second film highlights this rather well, but as for the characters themselves.....

Raimi and Maguire got Peter down right in the first film. He's dorky, but smart. He has a wide-eyed innocence that is nice and Spideys humor is mostly intact. In the Spidey 2 and 3, Peter loses all of his personality. He becomes a moping, whiny, cry baby with no backbone or personality what so ever. I mean, even in the comics, when things get bad for Peter ya he laments and complains but there is strength to him, an inner resolve he has that gets him through it. Peter is the Raimi films needs people to give him overwrought and telegraphed speeches to get him through things.
He seems kinda pathetic. I mean even in the earliest comics from the 60s Peter has better social skills than Maguires portrayal. As awkward as he is at times, he can manage to give a little sass, keep his chin up. Not in Spider-Man 2.
I know I sound like one of those fanboys that need a comic book film to be slavish the source, I don't. I just want the essence of characters and themes to be represented correctly. I just don't see Peter Parker much in Spider-Man 2. I see a quivering chin. Hell, the very reason he gave up the hero life in the film is in COMPLETE contrast to the real reason from the comics.
In the comic he quits being Spidey because he LIKES and ENJOYS it too much. He feels he got away from what he originally vowed when Ben died and it just became about thrill seeking and letting loose. Despite all of the crap Peter goes through, Spidey is a release for him, not the unrelenting curse Raimi's version makes it out to be. His powers disappear because of stress? Give me a break...
Kirsten Dunst suffers the same fate. MJ's spark was visible in the first film. In the second and third she is a boring cypher. Nothing more.
Same with Franco. His arc in the second film is the only semi interesting thing going on. Too bad Franco couldn't be bothered to put in a decent performance.

And the dialogue and delivery. Oh boy...
Now the first film had cheesy dialogue as well but like I said, it was delivered and carried well with solid performances and chemistry. That is all gone in the second film. Maguire and Dunst are all but as riveting as wood together in the sequels. They have NO spark what so ever. All their scenes together feel so stilted and corny. Raimi couldn't balance the drama and the comic book in the second film. The dramatic scenes just feel overly dramatic to the point of soap opera. Everybody speaks in grand, moralistic monologues....
Octavius has give Peter a big speech, Connors, the doctor, the pizza guy, Aunt May.....all give Peter these corny, telegraphed moral lessons he has to realize as the film goes on.
This is what The Amazing Spider-Man got right imo. Peter still learns these things, but the way he does is much more natural. The dialogue is more convincing and realistic. As is the chemistry.

I just don't get the love for Spider-Man 2. I know am in the minority, but it's rather poor imo with some great action keeping it mildly salvageable.

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Old 04-19-2013, 10:06 AM   #46
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Default Re: Who thought SM2 was Overrated?

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Originally Posted by GremlinZilla89 View Post
1. Struck a balance between the comic-booky-ness and the drama
2. Maguire, Dunst, Franco, Dafoe...all felt like they gave a damn.
3. Maguire and Dunst actually had chemistry and appeal that sold us on the somewhat campy dialogue.
Spider-Man 2 had all of that, too. In fact Maguire's performance in 2 is easily stronger and more soulful.

You can't talk about cheesy dialogue in any of the movies. They all have it, but SM-1 has more than it's fair share. I still can't take Goblin seriously singing itsy bitsy spider. Shouting Saturday morning cartoon dialogue like "We'll meet again, SPIDER-MAAAAAAAAAAN!!!!!". And so much more.

As for your remarks about him finding Spider-Man a release and not a curse, did you somehow miss the ending line to Spider-Man 1: "This is my gift, my CURSE. Who am I? I'm Spider-Man". Or the multitude of comics where his life has Spidey has cause his personal life to go down the crapper?

Or that Spider-Man 2's story is based on two such comic book storylines?















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Old 04-19-2013, 11:08 AM   #47
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Default Re: Who thought SM2 was Overrated?

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SM2 was very good in terms of screenplay and acting.

But the action and CGI in my view was not too good. Doc Ock looked very fake on some of his CGI scenes.

Am I the only one?

I always find it very interesting why/how people choose to rate films. For me, the script/story is the most important thing. CGI and action are all secondary things used in aid of telling the story. I just can't wrap my head around rating a movie lower because the effects aren't what I see reflected in movies today. The effects in SM2 were the best available at the time and should be judged as such- Just like the effects in TASM won't look as wonderful as they do now in 10 years time.

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Old 04-19-2013, 02:17 PM   #48
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Spider-Man 2 had all of that, too. In fact Maguire's performance in 2 is easily stronger and more soulful.

You can't talk about cheesy dialogue in any of the movies. They all have it, but SM-1 has more than it's fair share. I still can't take Goblin seriously singing itsy bitsy spider. Shouting Saturday morning cartoon dialogue like "We'll meet again, SPIDER-MAAAAAAAAAAN!!!!!". And so much more.

As for your remarks about him finding Spider-Man a release and not a curse, did you somehow miss the ending line to Spider-Man 1: "This is my gift, my CURSE. Who am I? I'm Spider-Man". Or the multitude of comics where his life has Spidey has cause his personal life to go down the crapper?

Or that Spider-Man 2's story is based on two such comic book storylines?














I don't see the point in you posting the panels from Spider-Man no more, as it only further illustrates the point I made about Peter giving it up for the complete opposite reasons in the film.
He may say "My gift, my curse." but it was never presented as such in the second film. What does Spidey do when life gets too heavy for him in the comics? He puts on his suite and has a joy-swing. What does he do in the films? He magical loses his powers and mopes around.

And I never said the dialogue in the first film wasn't cheesy, I said it was more forgivable because the tone of the film felt balanced between the cartoony and the drama whereas the second film felt too serious and too goofy without a good blend of the two.

I'm not saying everybody is wrong who likes this film. I just don't see Peter Parker/Spidey in it.

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Old 04-19-2013, 02:51 PM   #49
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I don't see the point in you posting the panels from Spider-Man no more, as it only further illustrates the point I made about Peter giving it up for the complete opposite reasons in the film.
No, he didn't. He gave it up for the exact same reasons: it was bringing him nothing but unhappiness. It was taking a toll on his life and he didn't want it any more.

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He may say "My gift, my curse." but it was never presented as such in the second film.
Oh yes it is. Because eventually he accepts his responsibility again and puts the costume back on. But he had to have his moments of crisis where he felt it was doing more harm than good to his life. That's a turning point for Peter. Where he realizes he can't throw in the towel.

Quote:
What does Spidey do when life gets too heavy for him in the comics? He puts on his suite and has a joy-swing. What does he do in the films? He magical loses his powers and mopes around.
Do you see him throwing his costume away in the trash in the above comics and giving up because life is getting too heavy for him?

Yes, you do.

Quote:
And I never said the dialogue in the first film wasn't cheesy, I said it was more forgivable because the tone of the film felt balanced between the cartoony and the drama whereas the second film felt too serious and too goofy without a good blend of the two.
Your argument is unconvincing since the cheese was as heavy in SM-1 as it was in part 2.

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I'm not saying everybody is wrong who likes this film. I just don't see Peter Parker/Spidey in it.
Fair enough. It's your loss.

I mean I've seen you in the Batman forums and you accepted Bruce Wayne quitting for 8 years in The Dark Knight Rises, something Bruce Wayne would never do in the comics, but you struggle to accept Peter Parker quitting being Spidey temporarily because it's ruining everything in his life from his friendships, to college, to his employment.

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Old 04-19-2013, 03:09 PM   #50
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No, he didn't. He gave it up for the exact same reasons: it was bringing him nothing but unhappiness. It was taking a toll on his life and he didn't want it any more.



Oh yes it is. Because eventually he accepts his responsibility again and puts the costume back on. But he had to have his moments of crisis where he felt it was doing more harm than good to his life. That's a turning point for Peter. Where he realizes he can't throw in the towel.



Do you see him throwing his costume away in the trash in the above comics and giving up because life is getting too heavy for him?

Yes, you do.



Your argument is unconvincing since the cheese was as heavy in SM-1 as it was in part 2.



Fair enough. It's your loss.

I mean I've seen you in the Batman forums and you accepted Bruce Wayne quitting for 8 years in The Dark Knight Rises, something Bruce Wayne would never do in the comics, but you struggle to accept Peter Parker quitting being Spidey temporarily because it's ruining everything in his life from his friendships, to college, to his employment.
Why do you keep citing THAT ONE comic as an argument? That is the exception, not the rule. Aside from that one story, Peter has never just thrown in the towel due to stress or whatever. For your one example, I could find hundreds more where he's swinging around as a stress reliever.

Are you ignoring my posts completely? Yes, the cheese is as prominent in the first film as it is in the second. My point is IT FITS BETTER IN THE NARRATIVE AND THE TONE of the first film.
And yes I do except Bruce giving up Mantle, he's done it before and it was written in a way that felt true to the character. He gave up in the 60s and settled down with Selena and he gave up in the most beloved Batman comic ever made, The Dark Knight Returns, after Jason Todds death. It's not about that these guys give it up, it's how it works within the context of the story and the history of the character as a whole. Bruce was just as obsessive in TDKR as he was in the other two. He was just waiting for a reason to get back in the game. And Bane was that reason.

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