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Old 07-15-2008, 10:38 PM   #301
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Default Re: Am I the only one who feels like B'89 is vastly overrated?

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Totally disagree. Gotham was more alive in Nolan's. It seems like a living breathing city I could go visit. Burton's ALWAYS looks like a set. It ALWAYS looks fake as heck. At least Nolan's looks like a real city and not just a backdrop. And Begin's theme song is much darker and serious. While Burton's is almost cartoonish (though good).
Well, that's because you can. It was filmed in Chicago.


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And batmobile? One word. Realism. They injected so much realism into it you can't ever go back to the old ones without laughing your head off. It looks ridiculous. Bat wings on the bumber... I'll take the tumbler anyday.
Would you stop that? Seriously. "Bat-wings on something that belongs to Batman? Pshaw!" Also, there are actually bat-wings on the Tumbler. Look closer.

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This one looks like a joke.

You know why, right? That's a fan-made Batmobile.




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Just my opinion.

Obviously. Jeezus.


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Old 07-16-2008, 01:01 AM   #302
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Default Re: Am I the only one who feels like B'89 is vastly overrated?

You have to tack that on to everything now-a-days before people get all pissy. Seems it didn't work...

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Old 07-16-2008, 06:51 AM   #303
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Default Re: Am I the only one who feels like B'89 is vastly overrated?

You know, looking at what Jack did (from the film on youtube) I'm really starting to notice all the mannerisms he brought into the character - much like Heath, he seems to have this peculiar way of walking, and this constant half-gleam in his eyes that, at times seems to give him an almost reptilian look.

He has this way of moving his arms that's oddly foreboding as well - this is evidenced most by the scene in the belltower where he sends the bell crashing down below, I think.

The way he incorporates the laugh into the character is of note as well - much like Heath has done, it seems, but in a different direction. It's very natural, almost subdued in a couple of scenes, like a nervous twitch.

Just a couple of observations.

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Old 07-16-2008, 06:59 AM   #304
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Default Re: Am I the only one who feels like B'89 is vastly overrated?

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Gotham having gargoyles in the comics doesn't neccessarily mean it ever looked like Tim Burton's Gotham did overall in BATMAN. Not that I give a damn, as Batman never wore all black in the comics before the movie, and he looked great in all black. Sometimes movies change things for the better.
Gotham, in the first film, didn't really look all that gothic, aside from the cathedral scenes and all - it did become far more expressionistic in the sequel, but in "Batman," it was more of an anachronistic city than a gothic one. Some shots look straight out of Year One, particularly during the parade sequence at the end.

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Old 07-16-2008, 07:50 AM   #305
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Default Re: Am I the only one who feels like B'89 is vastly overrated?

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Defintely ... Gotham being overly stylized Gothic, was that one of them?
Gotham was indeed stylized Gothic by many artists in the comics.

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Or how about the giant naked men statues Burton introduced in Batman Returns?

Giant naked man statue in Batman: Arkham Asylum (1989):



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Did the entire massive world of Gotham in the comics rotate and only take place on a 2-3 block radius the way it does in both B89 and Batman Returns?

haha
No, what we see in Batman is mammoth, five-blocks including Gotham City Hall, the Flugelheim Museum, Axis Chemicals, it's the largest sets built since the movie Cleopatra in 1963. What we see in Batman Returns is also mammoth, including Gotham City's Hall of Records, Shreck's, Gotham Square and Gotham Plaza, based on New York's Rockefeller Center, it's Rockefeller Center's evil twin. The Penguin's underground lair is an enormous tank filled with half-a-million gallons of water.

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Old 07-16-2008, 07:54 AM   #306
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Default Re: Am I the only one who feels like B'89 is vastly overrated?

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Gotham, in the first film, didn't really look all that gothic, aside from the cathedral
Exactly.

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Old 07-16-2008, 08:00 AM   #307
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Default Re: Am I the only one who feels like B'89 is vastly overrated?

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Gotham, in the first film, didn't really look all that gothic, aside from the cathedral scenes and all - it did become far more expressionistic in the sequel, but in "Batman," it was more of an anachronistic city than a gothic one. Some shots look straight out of Year One, particularly during the parade sequence at the end.
I agree.

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Old 07-16-2008, 08:10 AM   #308
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Default Re: Am I the only one who feels like B'89 is vastly overrated?

Anton Furst's Gotham always looked like an industrialized city to me.

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Old 07-16-2008, 08:11 AM   #309
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Default Re: Am I the only one who feels like B'89 is vastly overrated?

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Well I might have to considering he just delivered back to back the two greatest Batman motion pictures, and the best movie of its caliber and genere. I mean Nolan is just a vast superior talent to Burton. Nolan co-wrote and directed the best superhero movie of all-time, and the best back to back comic book movies seen on screen. He deserves it from all bat-fans. Just get on your knees Bat-fans, and ...

Not gonna happen. And this Nolan vs. Burton mentality you have is really ridiculous. They are both great.

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Gargoyles hear and there ... but the architexture of the city was never before B89 potrayed as a Gothic for the sake of being Gothic. Never.
The architecture was indeed portrayed as Gothic for the sake of being Gothic in the comics. “I just wanted to make 'Batman' Gothic and spooky,” Denny O’Neil explained. Neal Adams depicted a frightening Gothic Gotham City.
Batman #221 (1970):

Batman #232 (1971):


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And what makes over stylized Gothic architexture threatning? I live in Chicago, and there is elements to my city that make Burton's visual look to his city look like happy town. Real cities have various elements that make it up. Not entirely poor and run down, there is wealthy areas, different styles of architexture built up over generations.
In Batman and Batman Returns there are wealthy areas, Carl Grissom's place, Gotham Plaza, Shreck's, different styles of architecture. The Gothic cathedral is the only building we see in the Burton Batman films that has Gothic gargoyles hanging on it. Other buildings are not Gothic at all. There is nothing Gothic about Sherck's with the Felix the Cat corporate logos.


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Yes, Chris Nolan puts you in a contemporary enviornment that sucks the audience in and makes them feel they are actually immersed in a world that is similar to our own ... therefore there is more relatability to the heroes, and the villains and their acts feel more threatning and dangerous. No wonder Burton fans don't understand concepts like this ... like Burton compared to Nolan, there is an intelligence gap there. haha

It's more threatning and oppressing because the world is relatable in look and feel ... thus making the insane actions of the characters inside of it more believable. Threatning doesn't come from overly stylized Gothic architexture, naked men statues in claustrophobic Wal-Mart sized Gotham set pieces. The inhabitants of Nolan's Gotham are more threatning. The people make it threatning, not the look of buildings. Buildings that look like a flip side to say Candy Land? No ... threatning is slums based off real life oppressive low income housing. Oppressive and threatning is the elements that holds the people of Gotham down by their greed and corruption.

Gotham is supposed to be a real breathing city, massive with depth. Who says Gotham translates to Gothic? I've heard no one downplay how threatning Gotham feels in Nolan's movie universe for Batman. In fact, they gush how it is a very scary place, the scariest seen on screen for Batman.
Real American city's do have some Gothic cathedrals with gargoyles hanging from the sides of them.

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They're supposed to be normal buildings. Look at Batman: Year One ... city feels real and is still threatning without going overboard with a circle jerk of Gothic fantasy. And the look of Nolan's Gotham is on point with Batman: Year One.
Everyone is suppose to depict all Gotham City architecture how David Mazzucchelli did in Batman: Year One? You really need to broaden your mind to the fact that other artists depictions of Gotham City architecture are just as valid and official as David Mazzucchelli's.

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Tell that to the critics who have said from BEGINS to TDK, Gotham and the world created by Nolan has gave way to the MOST FRIGHTENING comic book world seen on screen. Why? People lose themselves in the film because the movie world Nolan creates bleeds into what we know and feel living in our own everyday world.
So what frightened you in Batman Begins?

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Burton had Gothic fantasia? Wow, threatning. Oh I forgot, Penguins with rockets, Clowns shaking their ass to Prince and defacing art in museums ... FRIGHTENING!!!
No, those two parts are FUN, insane, anarchy.

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Countless stories prior to the 80's has Batman set in a city that wasn't a Gothic toilet. Never was the city ever made up of that much Gothic architexture in the source material ... NEVER.
Actually, as I've pointed out, the city had more Gothic gargoyle architecture in the source material.

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It was always to whatever extent they took it visually, a recognizable city.
Looks like a recognizable city to me.


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A bandwagon Dark Knight follower? LOL ... uhh, ok. I can live with that, whatever it means. I was around as a Batman fan before B89 ... don't be salty Nolan has put out the 2 BEST Bat-films of all-time. Without a single piece of overly fashioned Gothic set piece.
The two best? You haven't even seen Nolan's Dark Knight yet have you? It looks like it will be great but I'll reserve calling it the best tell after I've actually seen the film.

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Old 07-16-2008, 08:26 AM   #310
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Default Re: Am I the only one who feels like B'89 is vastly overrated?

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You know, looking at what Jack did (from the film on youtube) I'm really starting to notice all the mannerisms he brought into the character - much like Heath, he seems to have this peculiar way of walking, and this constant half-gleam in his eyes that, at times seems to give him an almost reptilian look.

He has this way of moving his arms that's oddly foreboding as well - this is evidenced most by the scene in the belltower where he sends the bell crashing down below, I think.

The way he incorporates the laugh into the character is of note as well - much like Heath has done, it seems, but in a different direction. It's very natural, almost subdued in a couple of scenes, like a nervous twitch.

Just a couple of observations.
This is from an old nytimes article I found

''A conventional approach to character can lead to a sameness in the work,'' he says. ''I played The Joker short-wired. I'd do anything that came into my mind.'' For example, The Joker's response to being dropped into a vat of deadly chemicals, disfigured and further disfigured by plastic surgery: ''At first you think he's crying,'' says the actor. ''Actually, he's laughing.''

In the abstract, Mr. Nicholson finds no more or less difficulty in playing a demented comic book character than in impersonating an unfaithful husband or a dimwitted gangster. ''The degree of difficulty varies from role to role rather than with the type of role,'' he says. ''The main difficulty in playing the devil or The Joker is that those roles are more physically demanding. They require movement, action, big sets and space.''

Some 43 years ago, Mr. Nicholson was sent to the grocery store for bread and milk and instead spent the money on Submariner, the Human Torch, Captain Marvel and Batman. He was spanked, and the comic books were taken away. Of all those heroes, Batman was his favorite because the caped crusader's success ''was based on extended human skills rather than on superhuman skills or supernatural powers,'' he says, adding, ''I was nontheocratic even then.''

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpag...pagewanted=all

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Old 07-16-2008, 08:56 AM   #311
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Old 07-16-2008, 09:01 AM   #312
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Old 07-16-2008, 09:16 AM   #313
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Default Re: Am I the only one who feels like B'89 is vastly overrated?

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Totally disagree. Gotham was more alive in Nolan's. It seems like a living breathing city I could go visit. Burton's ALWAYS looks like a set. It ALWAYS looks fake as heck. At least Nolan's looks like a real city and not just a backdrop. And Begin's theme song is much darker and serious. While Burton's is almost cartoonish (though good).
Totally disagree. It looks very real to me in Batman and Batman Returns. They created a city. The theme's in Batman and Batman Returns are very dark, serious, tragic, operatic, moving, and hypnotic.



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And the biggest thing of all.... Bruce Wayne. Keaton sucked. There, I said it. He was too old, too ugly, not buff enough, not tough enough, and lacked the likeable factor Bale has in spades.
Keaton is great. Society is to youth obsessed today. Keaton's Bruce Wayne is tough and aggressive, and very likable as well.
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Looks like an ugly push over.
Looks like Michael Keaton. Keaton is neither ugly or a push over.
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Looks like pretty boy Bruce Wayne.
Looks like Christian Bale.

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That doesn't really look like Bale. Bale doesn't have black hair and he doesn't have those lines on his forehead, however, Keaton does.


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The only thing Burton's is good for now is nostalgia.

Just my opinion.
Nolan's is great but Burton's is still the best.

Just my opinion.

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Old 07-16-2008, 09:31 AM   #314
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its ok movie, but nothing spectacular (at least in retrospect)

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Old 07-16-2008, 09:41 AM   #315
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Default Re: Am I the only one who feels like B'89 is vastly overrated?

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You have to tack that on to everything now-a-days before people get all pissy. Seems it didn't work...
Just looking at your signature, I can tell how much you know about what your talking about!

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Old 07-16-2008, 09:47 AM   #316
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Default Re: Am I the only one who feels like B'89 is vastly overrated?

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From which website did you get this comic book cover scan from?
milehighcomics.com

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Old 07-16-2008, 10:06 AM   #317
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Default Re: Am I the only one who feels like B'89 is vastly overrated?

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That doesn't really look like Bale. Bale doesn't have black hair and he doesn't have those lines on his forehead, however, Keaton does.
Oh, come on. This is getting beyond petty. They both have the frickin' forehead lines, it's just that it's not always as noticeable on Bale because he's younger.


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Old 07-16-2008, 10:27 AM   #318
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Default Re: Am I the only one who feels like B'89 is vastly overrated?

A good laugh is what I get when I come into this thread, and yes I enjoy it!

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Old 07-16-2008, 10:28 AM   #319
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Default Re: Am I the only one who feels like B'89 is vastly overrated?

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Oh, come on. This is getting beyond petty. They both have the frickin' forehead lines, it's just that it's not always as noticeable on Bale because he's younger.

Keaton has the serious prominent forehead lines!

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Old 07-16-2008, 10:29 AM   #320
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A good laugh is what I get when I come into this thread, and yes I enjoy it!

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Old 07-16-2008, 10:30 AM   #321
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why thank you man-bat!

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Old 07-16-2008, 11:42 AM   #322
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Default Re: Am I the only one who feels like B'89 is vastly overrated?

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Not gonna happen. And this Nolan vs. Burton mentality you have is really ridiculous. They are both great.
You have it too, my friend ... you're a Burton groupie. Burton was decent, Nolan is GREAT

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So what frightened you in Batman Begins?
I never said I was frightened, I said Batman Begins world is more threatning than Burton's obsession over German Expressionism and Gothic Fantasia. However, movie critics after seeing The Dark Knight have said it is by far the scariest and most threatning Batman world seen on screen. BY FAR.


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No, those two parts are FUN, insane, anarchy.
No thats called CORNY.

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The two best? You haven't even seen Nolan's Dark Knight yet have you? It looks like it will be great but I'll reserve calling it the best tell after I've actually seen the film.
I have now, yes. You can reserve that right all you want, you're a Burton sucker. Have you been living under a Batman Returns blanket? Movie critics galore have said The Dark Knight is by far and away not only the best Batman movie, but the best movie in its category. It's comprabale to cinema like the Departed, Untouchables, etc. Saying it's one of the greatest movie going experiences they have ever had. And prior to that many believed Batman Begins was the best, and they say TDK trumps that movie by a long shot ... so go ahead and watch the film, I already know what you think. THE DARK KNIGHT however = THE BEST of the BEST. So I'm not jumping any gun making such declorations, experts in the field have already done it for me.

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Old 07-16-2008, 11:52 AM   #323
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You have it too, my friend ... you're a Burton groupie. Burton was decent, Nolan is GREAT
You have not one clue what your talking about, your opinion is totally biased and you have no facts to back up your statements at all what so ever!

-DV


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Old 07-16-2008, 11:55 AM   #324
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Besides the fact that every one calling out Nolan's Batman movie a masterpiece, and how it goes far and beyond anything seen before? How an actor in said movie would be up for an Oscar, or how it exceeds its genere? Yeah, you're right ... Nolan isn't great. Burton had those same things said about his two Batman films.

haha

Do you want me to start posting exerpts from the reviews?

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Old 07-16-2008, 12:13 PM   #325
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Default Re: Am I the only one who feels like B'89 is vastly overrated?

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You have it too, my friend ... you're a Burton groupie. Burton was decent, Nolan is GREAT[/qupte]

One is neither better or worse than the other - they're entirely different styles of filmmaker.


I never said I was frightened, I said Batman Begins world is more threatning than Burton's obsession over German Expressionism and Gothic Fantasia.
Except, you know, that was mainly in the second film, and he already admitted in contemporary interviews that some of the architecture was inspired by the art from "Arkham Asylum" and various other graphic novels, as well as mainly fascist architecture, which was the reason for the large statues.


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However, movie critics after seeing The Dark Knight have said it is by far the scariest and most threatning Batman world seen on screen. BY FAR.
Okay.



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No thats called CORNY.
This is called, a "failed attempt at sarcastic wordplay."


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I have now, yes. You can reserve that right all you want, you're a Burton sucker.
I'm sorry?

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So I'm not jumping any gun making such declorations, experts in the field have already done it for me.
You realize that the film's rating on RT is fluctuating, right? It's gone from a 100, to an 85, to a 74, back up to 91, down to 84, and so on. Right now, it's only got two points on Hellboy II, and this is a travesty.

Regardless of the film's quality in itself, it's not completely unscathed.

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