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Old 10-14-2008, 05:41 AM   #151
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Default Re: Why Does Frank Miller Hate Superman?

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Originally Posted by sto_vo_kor_2000 View Post
Thats your right.And as far as I know Miller is claiming that they are the same character.Even thou it really doesnt make as much sence as you might think.But thats my opinion.
ok
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Not so much.I was refering to the mainstream Batman.I do see the the control freak in Millers Batman.
Well, inthis case, I disagree, Batman became an ******* with Miller because he wanted to be in control with everything, and do whatever it takes to get the job done whatever are the colateral damages. And I think this version , has been expanded and fleshed out by Morrisson and Waid on their run on JLA. But that's not how "Batman is" he was not like this in the 5oes or in the 60es or in the 70 and even the 80es. The "control freak" batman came later and above all doesn't represent the whole character. So writing very precise explanations because, in the end, it suits the character,because he is a "control freak" is false, IMO. That's how Miller writes him, I concur, but that's why I was saying the whole "not so aggressiv bombs" are ******** : it is out of the character to engineer such bombs.
Again, I'm fed up with the überbat, and I preferred the human-like batman of the 70-80es.
That's why I asked you if you were talking about Miller batman only. For Miller batman, yes, you were right about the control freak-I can build very-precise bombs. I think it's ********.An easy way to promote pure violence saying "hey, he didn't kill him, did he ?"
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Well your welcome to your opinion.
I dont see it in quite that way.It may be crossing a line to destroy a life but I can see where there may be times that its needed.
What I dont agree with is how Millers Batman is "TOO" willing to take that route with common crooks. Maybe with the serial killers and the real crazy bad guys, crippling might be needed to make sure they dont hurt others.......but a guy robbing a bank?????
That's exactly my point. I agree on everything. And even with "not common" crooks maybe it's a little too much. In a comicbook, I don't think it's very clever or useful to write this kind of things. But I think that's what Miller does anyway applying the Sin City thing to Gotham City.
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Well I see them all running????And the fact that was never reported that any cop was killed is proof enough for me that none of the cops were killed.
OK. If you want, ok, but the guy on the left seems to fall, not to run. What is the name of the newspaper that reports the kidnapping again ? I don't have the issue with me.
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What bothers me more about that issue is the fact that there's no way Batman could have known that they would all escape safely.Which meens Batman was "WILLING" to kill them.The fact that no one was killed was pure luck.
Agreed.
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No he didnt.Batman broke his back but the Joker lived after that.The Joker then killed himself by twisting the rest of his spine till his own neck broke.
oops hehe, you are right! Totally messed this up! But again, is it possible to survive long a broken back, or did batman do it in order to kill him ? (I know all the back injuries are not lethal).

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Old 10-14-2008, 12:15 PM   #152
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Default Re: Why Does Frank Miller Hate Superman?

Batman wanted to kill Joker but he later changd his mind and the joker killed himself

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Old 10-15-2008, 02:29 AM   #153
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Default Re: Why Does Frank Miller Hate Superman?

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Originally Posted by CLARKY View Post
Well, inthis case, I disagree, Batman became an ******* with Miller because he wanted to be in control with everything, and do whatever it takes to get the job done whatever are the colateral damages. And I think this version , has been expanded and fleshed out by Morrisson and Waid on their run on JLA. But that's not how "Batman is" he was not like this in the 5oes or in the 60es or in the 70 and even the 80es. The "control freak" batman came later and above all doesn't represent the whole character. So writing very precise explanations because, in the end, it suits the character,because he is a "control freak" is false, IMO. That's how Miller writes him, I concur, but that's why I was saying the whole "not so aggressiv bombs" are ******** : it is out of the character to engineer such bombs.
Again, I'm fed up with the überbat, and I preferred the human-like batman of the 70-80es.
Well I wasnt trying to say that Batman has been that way all a long.

But he has been a control freek for almost 20 years now.

Im not so sure it can be said that it was Miller that really started that trend.

I found roots of that kind of behaiver in some of the 70's and 80's stories but I"ll admit that Miller brought it to the extreme.

But thats what He does best.

The 90"s really brought it home tho....there were even eliments of it in the Animated universe.

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That's why I asked you if you were talking about Miller batman only. For Miller batman, yes, you were right about the control freak-I can build very-precise bombs. I think it's ********.An easy way to promote pure violence saying "hey, he didn't kill him, did he ?"
That's exactly my point. I agree on everything. And even with "not common" crooks maybe it's a little too much. In a comicbook, I don't think it's very clever or useful to write this kind of things. But I think that's what Miller does anyway applying the Sin City thing to Gotham City.
Like I said Miller writes extreemes.

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OK. If you want, ok, but the guy on the left seems to fall, not to run. What is the name of the newspaper that reports the kidnapping again ? I don't have the issue with me.
I dont right now ether.But I'll look for it.

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oops hehe, you are right! Totally messed this up! But again, is it possible to survive long a broken back, or did batman do it in order to kill him ? (I know all the back injuries are not lethal).
I have an old grammer school buddy that had his back broken when he was 10 years old.

He's going to be 40 next month.He doent get around much but they say he's in good shape considering all things.

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Old 11-03-2008, 10:09 PM   #154
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Default Re: Why Does Frank Miller Hate Superman?

Depends on what is meant by "super intellect". Superman has super computational skills for example, and can (or she be able to) do calculator like math in his head, instantly. Superman should be able to memorize information instantly, be able to apply the information he has received scientifically as well as combining that with his vision. He can see better than the best microscopes etc…At least these are some of the things Silver age Superman could do, and if that is back, great. That is what they mean by "super intellect".

Those are however mostly three skills; Science, Memory, and Math.
Superman’s problem solving ability I do not think are as good as Batman’s.

Superman does not have the ability to "get inside the head" of his enemies to understand their plots and motives like a good detective.

So you could say Supes is better at certain mental things, but not in every category.

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Old 11-03-2008, 11:06 PM   #155
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Depends on what is meant by "super intellect". Superman has super computational skills for example, and can (or she be able to) do calculator like math in his head, instantly. Superman should be able to memorize information instantly, be able to apply the information he has received scientifically as well as combining that with his vision. He can see better than the best microscopes etc…At least these are some of the things Silver age Superman could do, and if that is back, great. That is what they mean by "super intellect".

Those are however mostly three skills; Science, Memory, and Math.
Superman’s problem solving ability I do not think are as good as Batman’s.

Superman does not have the ability to "get inside the head" of his enemies to understand their plots and motives like a good detective.

So you could say Supes is better at certain mental things, but not in every category.
To be fair, despite the fact that Superman is human-like and was raised as a human, he isn't human. The best that he can do is approximate everything.

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Old 11-03-2008, 11:08 PM   #156
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Default Re: Why Does Frank Miller Hate Superman?

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Well I wasnt trying to say that Batman has been that way all a long.

But he has been a control freek for almost 20 years now.

Im not so sure it can be said that it was Miller that really started that trend.

I found roots of that kind of behaiver in some of the 70's and 80's stories but I"ll admit that Miller brought it to the extreme.

But thats what He does best.
It makes sense that Batman is a control freak, who's barely in control of himself. You can't have a guy obsessed with catching criminals 24/7 and uses brutal methods to do so be balanced.

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Old 11-13-2008, 07:37 AM   #157
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Frank Miller's Batman hates Superman so greatly because Batman realizes that no matter WHAT he does in his life, he will never experience any emotions other than anger and hatred.

His Batman will also spend the rest of his life in his parents' basement.


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Old 11-15-2008, 10:00 AM   #158
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Default Re: Why Does Frank Miller Hate Superman?

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Frank Miller's Batman hates Superman so greatly because Batman realizes that no matter WHAT he does in his life, he will never experience any emotions other than anger and hatred.

His Batman will also spend the rest of his life in his parents' basement.


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Old 11-15-2008, 11:24 AM   #159
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Default Re: Why Does Frank Miller Hate Superman?

Glad you liked that li'l joke, Man-Bat! When I posted the same joke on the DC Boards about 5 years ago, I got flamed, but GOOD! LOL

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Old 11-23-2008, 01:55 AM   #160
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Default Re: Why Does Frank Miller Hate Superman?

There is a serious lack of a sense of humor on the DC boards.

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Old 12-07-2008, 05:38 PM   #161
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Default Re: Why Does Frank Miller Hate Superman?

The main distinguishing feature of Miller's batman isn't his rage or his violence. Its his radicalism, his subversiveness. He is constantly challenging authority, whether it be Gotham cops, the US army, the JLA, or...Superman, who is a government agent in Miller's world.

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Old 12-10-2008, 08:49 PM   #162
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Default Re: Why Does Frank Miller Hate Superman?

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Frank Miller's Batman hates Superman so greatly because Batman realizes that no matter WHAT he does in his life, he will never experience any emotions other than anger and hatred.

His Batman will also spend the rest of his life in his parents' basement.


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Old 12-31-2008, 07:44 PM   #163
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Default Re: Why Does Frank Miller Hate Superman?

He definitely hates Superman because he's a "boy scout". Why anyone even needs to ask, knowing his work and mindset, is beyond me. Why does Frank Miller hate everybody? That would be a better question.

With the exception of TDKR and Y1, he's butchered Batman just as badly as Superman. I can buy TDKR because it's an older, jaded version of the character living in a Gotham/world far more extreme than it ever was before. Y1 wasn't really normal Frank. Pedestrian compared to his writing today.

Frank Miller's schemes make sense to him alone...he's just trying to be as badass and balls to the wall as can be with everything he writes. It works magnificently with his own projects but when he comes to DC, whips out his dick and pisses all over every icon they have it's just...bad.

I like some of his ideas in concept. Batman being a subversive, Superman a well-intended tool, WW a psycho-feminist...it sounds good but he takes this stuff way too far and too out of character. Not to mention the stories just plain suck, now. They're not even entertaining extreme *insert character here*-in-name-only tales.

It's like watching a train wreck. Horrifying, but you keep looking out of morbid curiousity. They need to kick this guy out and tell him to stay out. Accomplishments from 20+ years ago shouldn't still be warranting the God-like treatment he receives and the carte blanche he keeps being handed to write terrible comics.

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Old 01-20-2009, 10:22 AM   #164
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Default Re: Why Does Frank Miller Hate Superman?

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He definitely hates Superman because he's a "boy scout". Why anyone even needs to ask, knowing his work and mindset, is beyond me.
No, he doesn't hate Superman at all.

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With the exception of TDKR and Y1, he's butchered Batman just as badly as Superman. I can buy TDKR because it's an older, jaded version of the character living in a Gotham/world far more extreme than it ever was before. Y1 wasn't really normal Frank. Pedestrian compared to his writing today.

Frank Miller's schemes make sense to him alone...he's just trying to be as badass and balls to the wall as can be with everything he writes. It works magnificently with his own projects but when he comes to DC, whips out his dick and pisses all over every icon they have it's just...bad.

I like some of his ideas in concept. Batman being a subversive, Superman a well-intended tool, WW a psycho-feminist...it sounds good but he takes this stuff way too far and too out of character.
Miller's is closer to the original tougher politically incorrect flawed Golden Age versions of Batman, Superman and Wonder Woman by their creators. Frank Miller's Batman is closer to the police-beating, bone-breaking brutal and wise-cracking original by Bill Finger and Bob Kane. Superman with more of an attitude and patriotic and not flying yet as Siegel created him. A tough feminist Wonder Woman as William Marston created her. Marston was writing a feminist book. Wonder Woman is not a psycho, but she is a feminist. And think of her history. She comes from an island of women who have been victimized and raped by men. What positive information would she have heard about men growing up? And Wonder Woman is an Amazon warrior. Amazon culture of ancient Greece and ancient Greek evokes spartan warriors. She didn't want to restrain herself. She has a warrior's heart and she showed an understandably deep loathing of men considering that she comes from an island of women who have been victimized and raped by men. I don't want a squeaky clean immaculate do-gooder Wonder Woman.

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Not to mention the stories just plain suck, now. They're not even entertaining extreme *insert character here*-in-name-only tales.

It's like watching a train wreck. Horrifying, but you keep looking out of morbid curiousity. They need to kick this guy out and tell him to stay out. Accomplishments from 20+ years ago shouldn't still be warranting the God-like treatment he receives and the carte blanche he keeps being handed to write terrible comics.
Look, if you don't like All-Star Batman & Robin and it's horrifying to you, then don't buy it. No ones forcing you to read.

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Old 01-20-2009, 09:30 PM   #165
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No, he doesn't hate Superman at all.
Sure he doesn't. All I see when I read Frank Miller is a Super-idiot who is constantly getting owned by Batman.



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Miller's is closer to the original tougher politically incorrect flawed Golden Age versions of Batman, Superman and Wonder Woman by their creators. Frank Miller's Batman is closer to the police-beating, bone-breaking brutal and wise-cracking original by Bill Finger and Bob Kane. Superman with more of an attitude and patriotic and not flying yet as Siegel created him. A tough feminist Wonder Woman as William Marston created her. Marston was writing a feminist book. Wonder Woman is not a psycho, but she is a feminist. And think of her history. She comes from an island of women who have been victimized and raped by men. What positive information would she have heard about men growing up? And Wonder Woman is an Amazon warrior. Amazon culture of ancient Greece and ancient Greek evokes spartan warriors. She didn't want to restrain herself. She has a warrior's heart and she showed an understandably deep loathing of men considering that she comes from an island of women who have been victimized and raped by men. I don't want a squeaky clean immaculate do-gooder Wonder Woman.
Any resemblence between AS and the GA is tenuous at best. I haven't read much past their first appearance in AS, so I wont comment in detail on Supes and WW, but this is most definitely not the golden age Batman. Or any Batman other than the one Frank has in his head. Batman is not a pshycopath, he's not full of hatred, he doesn't take joy in inflicting pain on others like a sadist/Joker without the giggles, and he doesn't abuse an already traumatized young boy. He has never acted the way he has in this book. This is nothing more than Frank's 'vision' of the DCU. It's in-name-only, pretty much. You like it? Fine, I'm not trying to change your mind, but don't sit there and tell me this is faithful to the character because it's just not. I personally think it's garbage, both characterization and plot/dialogue/etc, but to each his own as I said previously.



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Look, if you don't like All-Star Batman & Robin and it's horrifying to you, then don't buy it. No ones forcing you to read.
You're right, that's why I stopped buying it. That doesn't mean I'm not gonna voice my displeasure over it. If people can ***** for page after page about some of the most assinine things, I'm definitely gonna put in my two cents on the subject of someone half-assing (at best) my favorite character(s).

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Old 01-21-2009, 01:15 AM   #166
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Default Re: Why Does Frank Miller Hate Superman?

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who is constantly getting owned by Batman.
To be fair thats the case in the mainstream books as well.

Almost every "REAL" [ for a comic] encounter between these two leaves Batman out on top.

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Old 01-21-2009, 06:29 AM   #167
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Sure he doesn't. All I see when I read Frank Miller is a Super-idiot who is constantly getting owned by Batman.
Superman is not an idiot, he's intelligent (he's a reporter) but he's also not a Super-genius. I'm bored by the Super-perfect, unbeatable Mort Weisinger Supergod of the Silver Age/Bronze Age. Perfect characters are boring. The Golden Age Jerry Siegel Superman was not a Super-genius. He wasn't infinitely powerful. He was flawed. He made mistakes. The Golden Age Bill Finger/Bob Kane Batman happens to be a detective and scientist and engineer. He doesn’t have any high and mighty superpowers so he had to learn and rely on his mental skills.

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Any resemblence between AS and the GA is tenuous at best. I haven't read much past their first appearance in AS, so I wont comment in detail on Supes and WW, but this is most definitely not the golden age Batman. Or any Batman other than the one Frank has in his head. Batman is not a pshycopath
"I don't see Batman as a psychopath. His psychological state is extreme, but he's no psychopath." - Frank Miller, Comics Interview.

Quote:
he's not full of hatred
That's right. He's quite funny and wisecracking. -

Miller dislikes seeing a "tight-lipped, frowning, self-pitying" Batman and often presents him as smiling instead, "because I couldn't believe anyone who can do what Batman can would be so depressed. There's a tremendous amount of joy to the character, as dark as he is." - Frank Miller, Amazing Heroes #102.
"I base my Batman on Jerry Robinson's and Dick Sprang's, the strongest presentation of the character to date has come from the Forties. There was something in the art back then that made him look huge. There was also a sense of joy, grim as he was, there was a sense of joy, just in what he did, that I'm trying to bring back." - Frank Miller, Comics Interview #31.

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he doesn't take joy in inflicting pain on others





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and he doesn't abuse an already traumatized young boy.
He saves and tries to help and train an already traumatized young boy.


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You're right, that's why I stopped buying it. That doesn't mean I'm not gonna voice my displeasure over it. If people can ***** for page after page about some of the most assinine things, I'm definitely gonna put in my two cents on the subject of someone half-assing (at best) my favorite character(s).
It's someone portraying the characters closer to the way they were depicted by their creators. They've castrated the Grimms' fairy tales. And they've castrated the American superhero fairy tales, too. I'm glad Frank Miller doesn't soften them any.

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Old 01-21-2009, 08:16 AM   #168
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Default Re: Why Does Frank Miller Hate Superman?

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Superman is not an idiot, he's intelligent (he's a reporter) but he's also not a Super-genius. I'm bored by the Super-perfect, unbeatable Mort Weisinger Supergod of the Silver Age/Bronze Age. Perfect characters are boring. The Golden Age Jerry Siegel Superman was not a Super-genius. He wasn't infinitely powerful. He was flawed. He made mistakes. The Golden Age Bill Finger/Bob Kane Batman happens to be a detective and scientist and engineer. He doesn’t have any high and mighty superpowers so he had to learn and rely on his mental skills.
I don't like Super-God or Bat-God. I like characters to have flaws but when I see Frank's version of Superman I see a guy who's supposedly a superhuman being from a race of people with bodies and minds far more advanced than our's, yet he's always having a fool made out of him Batman. Now, I think Batman is more clever and that's why I don't mind seeing him get the edge now and then, but in Miller's world he basically makes Superman his ***** everytime they go at it.



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"I don't see Batman as a psychopath. He's psychological state is extreme, but he's no psychopath." - Frank Miller, Comics Interview.
This one's all up to personal interpretation I guess, because I see a guy with a screw loose on a good day when I see Miller-Bat.



Quote:
That's right. He's quite funny and wisecracking. -

Miller dislikes seeing a "tight-lipped, frowning, self-pitying" Batman and often presents him as smiling instead, "because I couldn't believe anyone who can do what Batman can would be so depressed. There's a tremendous amount of joy to the character, as dark as he is." - Frank Miller, Amazing Heroes #102.
"I base my Batman on Jerry Robinson's and Dick Sprang's, the strongest presentation of the character to date has come from the Forties. There was something in the art back then that made him look huge. There was also a sense of joy, grim as he was, there was a sense of joy, just in what he did, that I'm trying to bring back." - Frank Miller, Comics Interview #31.
Again, the stories/artists referenced are nothing compared to this. A wisecracking Batman who's not always brooding and moping is fine. I like it. But Frank's Batman comes off, whether it was his intention or not, as a sadistic maniac. That's not Batman. Not to me, at least.





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He saves and tries to help and train an already traumatized young boy.
Later on it develops into something more classic and not-insane, but the first couple issues? I mean, comeon, he smacks the kid around, verbally abuses him, tells him to eat rats. That is not Batman, and there is no way you're gonna convince me otherwise. Batman has compassion, especially to another human being who has had virtually the same tragedy inflicted upon him. I dig that Frank has lightened up on this but the beginning was just complete trash anyway you look at it.




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It's someone portraying the characters closer to the versions by their creators. They've castrated the Grimms' fairy tales. And they've castrated the American superhero fairy tales, too. I'm glad Frank Miller doesn't soften them any.
American Superheroes have not been 'castrated'. Frank Miller is just making them as extreme as he can, because that's his thing nowadays. His stuff in the 80's was closer to the initial version. Now it's just Sin City in tights. Not my cup of tea, thank you very much. I like Sin City but I like it to stay right where it bloody is, and not in my DC characters.

As I said before, if you like it that's great. I simply do not. Different strokes and all...

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Old 01-21-2009, 12:54 PM   #169
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Default Re: Why Does Frank Miller Hate Superman?

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I don't like Super-God or Bat-God. I like characters to have flaws but when I see Frank's version of Superman I see a guy who's supposedly a superhuman being from a race of people with bodies and minds far more advanced than our's, yet he's always having a fool made out of him Batman.
Superman wasn't raised by Kryptonians. He was raised by a farm couple and learned from them.

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Now, I think Batman is more clever and that's why I don't mind seeing him get the edge now and then, but in Miller's world he basically makes Superman his ***** everytime they go at it.
Because Batman is more clever.

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This one's all up to personal interpretation I guess, because I see a guy with a screw loose on a good day when I see Miller-Bat.
Of course Batman has a screw loose. There is a craziness to Batman. His psychological state is extreme, but he's not a psychopath. He's only half crazy.

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Again, the stories/artists referenced are nothing compared to this. A wisecracking Batman who's not always brooding and moping is fine. I like it. But Frank's Batman comes off, whether it was his intention or not, as a sadistic maniac. That's not Batman. Not to me, at least.
Batman is sadistic. Finger and Kane's Batman was sadistic. He enjoyed inflicting pain on others (as those pictures I posted show). Frank Miller's Batman is a return to that.

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Later on it develops into something more classic and not-insane, but the first couple issues? I mean, comeon, he smacks the kid around
Dick started freaking out so he smacked him to snap him out of it.

Then he questions himself about that.


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verbally abuses him, tells him to eat rats. That is not Batman, and there is no way you're gonna convince me otherwise.
That was Batman with no experience handling a kid. Frank Miller is embellishing Batman and Robin's beginnings for a contemporary audience. It look Batman time to evolve into a father figure. He wouldn't be great at suddenly playing daddy with no experience handling a kid.

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Batman has compassion, especially to another human being who has had virtually the same tragedy inflicted upon him. I dig that Frank has lightened up on this but the beginning was just complete trash anyway you look at it.
Batman was not without compassion and sympathy in the beginning. Batman did feel sorry for the boy. Batman thought to himself, "Damn it. Damn it all. What am I doing to this kid? Who the hell do I think I am? Just look at him. He's a baby. But it's the only way." Batman was trying to distract the boy to keep the boy from grieving over his parents death and accepting it because he wants the boy to be a crimefighter. He later realized that was wrong. Batman's a character that has flaws.

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American Superheroes have not been 'castrated'. Frank Miller is just making them as extreme as he can, because that's his thing nowadays. His stuff in the 80's was closer to the initial version. Now it's just Sin City in tights. Not my cup of tea, thank you very much. I like Sin City but I like it to stay right where it bloody is, and not in my DC characters.
American Superheroes were castrated. By the Silver Age the DC superheroes were all virtually interchangeable with each other. The characters had completely lost their edge and individuality and became much softer, nicer, mushier, blander, politically correct. They all had the same boy scout personality. If you've ever seen the Super Friends, that's an example of how they were in the comics. Batman, Superman and Wonder Woman were all extreme originally. Extreme has always been Frank Miller's thing long before he created Sin City.

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As I said before, if you like it that's great. I simply do not. Different strokes and all...
It all comes down to preference. There are plenty of other titles for you with other versions of these characters.

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Old 01-24-2009, 10:03 AM   #170
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Default Re: Why Does Frank Miller Hate Superman?

It's fine if Miller hates Superman, because I hate him right back. I can't stand his writing, and his art is atrocious. I read the first volume of All-Star Batman a while back, and I couldn't stand it... I took it back to the library the day after. His Batman seems like some abusive drunkard father, and nothing else. It's garbage.

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Old 01-26-2009, 04:12 AM   #171
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Default Re: Why Does Frank Miller Hate Superman?

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It's fine if Miller hates Superman, because I hate him right back. I can't stand his writing, and his art is atrocious.
Beautiful! Besides the fact that it's Batman in name only, it's just very bad writing. The dialogue is terrible, at times, and after 10 (far too delayed) issues the story hasn't really gone anywhere. I hope the next 2 get delivered soon so this will either finally get the axe or get a writer with some sense in there. I vote Ed Brubaker or Paul Dini or Matt Wagner or Azzarello or something...Anything! I dunno, Akiva Goldsman would be an upgrade over this.

As for art? Despite my disliking of his particular style and the fact that every character looks almost the same, Jim Lee draws very pretty pictures and so he can stay. But I certainly wouldn't mind Scott McDaniel.

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Old 01-26-2009, 03:54 PM   #172
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Default Re: Why Does Frank Miller Hate Superman?

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Beautiful! Besides the fact that it's Batman in name only
That's not true, as I've already explained and shown. You really need to broaden your closed mind to the fact that there is more than one version of Batman and his world. You assume there is one proper 'official' version of Batman, when there is of course no such thing. Frank Miller's Golden Age Batman-inspired version on Earth-31 is just as valid and official as Grant Morrison's Silver Age Batman-inspired version on New Earth.

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, it's just very bad writing. The dialogue is terrible, at times,
That's not a fact. That's your opinion, which I certainly don't agree with, and neither does everyone else.

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and after 10 (far too delayed) issues the story hasn't really gone anywhere.
Not true. Alot has happened. Dick Grayson's parents where murdered, Batman saved Dick Grayson from being murdered by the corrupt police, Batman captured Dick Grayson's parents killer and found out that the Joker was involved. Dick Grayson trained, created his costume and identity, and grieved over his parents death. Vicki Vale was Bruce Wayne's date to see the Flying Grayson's and saw them murdered and drives Alfred's car to try to save Dick Grayson from the police and crashed and was sent to the emergency room with pieces of her clavicle and ribs all loose in her chest and her lungs and heart were desperately compressed. Batman saved her medically by sending Superman to Paris to get the best doctor he knew to operate on her. Alfred calls the Daily Planet and reveals to Clark Kent that Batman knows he's Superman, thus blackmailing Superman into bringing the doctor. Jimmy Olsen came to the hospital to see Vicki Vale, who is recovering, and gave her all the information publicly known on the Flying Graysons, Dick Grayson and Batman. Jimmy also brought her flowers and then saw that Bruce Wayne had sent her tons of flowers and had of course paid her medical bills. The Justice League met over Batman and Robin, Superman and Wonder Woman kiss and send Green Lantern to talk to Batman about Robin and Batman agrees to meet him in an abandoned building in Crime Alley panted yellow, Green Lantern's weakness, so Green Lantern cant use his power ring against him. Dinah Lance became Black Canary, kicked all of the sexist pigs asses at the Black Canary bar and met and had sex with Batman after he saves her. Barbara Gordon became Batgirl and trys to fight crime but got arrested. Jim Gordon's wife Barbara was drunk driving and crashed and is in the hospital while her husband Jim Gordon is in love with Sarah Essen and trying to come to grips with the “things” he did in Chicago and the Joker killed a lawyer and almost killed Catwoman.

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I hope the next 2 get delivered soon so this will either finally get the axe or get a writer with some sense in there. I vote Ed Brubaker or Paul Dini or Matt Wagner or Azzarello or something...Anything! I dunno, Akiva Goldsman would be an upgrade over this.

As for art? Despite my disliking of his particular style and the fact that every character looks almost the same, Jim Lee draws very pretty pictures and so he can stay. But I certainly wouldn't mind Scott McDaniel.
Regardless of your opinion of it, Frank Miller isn't getting replaced. Dan DiDio said, "The All Star books, as they exist now, are really built for the people who built them. When Grant stopped writing All Star Superman, we stopped producing All Star Superman. When Frank and Jim Lee stop with All Star Batman and Robin, we will stop with All Star Batman and Robin as well."
http://www.newsarama.com/comics/110826-Didio3.html

Frank Miller said, "I've written up through issue No. 13. There will be just four more after that. Or maybe five. My plan is in the end we find out where that robot tyrannosaurs in the Batcave comes from. We finally find out. That's the plan."
http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/hero...-and-robi.html

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THE DEATH OF "SUPERMAN LIVES": WHAT HAPPENED?
Releasing on August 1st on DVD and Blu-ray combo package?


FRANK MILLER'S SIN CITY A DAME TO KILL FOR
In theaters August 22nd.

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Old 01-26-2009, 04:25 PM   #173
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Default Re: Why Does Frank Miller Hate Superman?

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Regardless of your opinion of it, Frank Miller isn't getting replaced. Dan DiDio said, "The All Star books, as they exist now, are really built for the people who built them. When Grant stopped writing All Star Superman, we stopped producing All Star Superman. When Frank and Jim Lee stop with All Star Batman and Robin, we will stop with All Star Batman and Robin as well."
http://www.newsarama.com/comics/110826-Didio3.html

Frank Miller said, "I've written up through issue No. 13. There will be just four more after that. Or maybe five. My plan is in the end we find out where that robot tyrannosaurs in the Batcave comes from. We finally find out. That's the plan."
http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/hero...-and-robi.html
Even better!

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Old 01-26-2009, 06:15 PM   #174
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Default Re: Why Does Frank Miller Hate Superman?

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Originally Posted by Daredevil_2003 View Post
Beautiful! Besides the fact that it's Batman in name only, it's just very bad writing. The dialogue is terrible, at times, and after 10 (far too delayed) issues the story hasn't really gone anywhere. I hope the next 2 get delivered soon so this will either finally get the axe or get a writer with some sense in there. I vote Ed Brubaker or Paul Dini or Matt Wagner or Azzarello or something...Anything! I dunno, Akiva Goldsman would be an upgrade over this.

As for art? Despite my disliking of his particular style and the fact that every character looks almost the same, Jim Lee draws very pretty pictures and so he can stay. But I certainly wouldn't mind Scott McDaniel.
Personally, I'd love to get Paul Dini and Shane Davis together on something. Dini's been one of my favorites since his tabloid books with Alex Ross.. his style is comfortable and fluid. Davis has quickly rose to be one of my favorite artists.. I just love his Superman.

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Old 06-08-2010, 01:37 PM   #175
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Default Re: why does Frank Miller hate Superman?

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Don't confuse the writer with the Batman character. As is the case with Superman, Frank Miller likes Green Lantern, it's Batman who doesn't. In All-Star Batman Hal Jordan speaks in an antiquated fashion saying things like “all we’ve seen is him [Batman] tossing the young fella into the car…” And I love how he's wearing the old Gil Kane version of the costume. He is a simple, nice guy. The way superheroes used to be. Miller has gone on record several times stating that he was upset several years back when they gave Hal a DUI (in the Emerald Dawn II storyline), and, a few years later, they would make him a mass murderer. He felt that it was unnecessary to add that level of darkness to that character (i.e. Batman is a character that lends himself to a darker treatment; there’s no need to do that with GL). "Why Green Lantern became a drunk driver when he can fly always loses me," Miller explains. "And I'm told they turned him into a mass murderer as well. The fun's gone out of it. I want to try my hand at bringing it back."
http://www.comicbookresources.com/?page=article&id=192

For Miller, Green Lantern represents a simpler more innocent time in superhero comics. So, he puts him in the Gil Kane costume.
So what does Miller do? He writes an issue that's basically just an excuse for Batman to hurl insults at Hal Jordan while Robin steals his ring and then they brutalize him and beat the crap out of him. Yeah, that's real fun. Miller seems to equate "nice guy(s)" with stupid, even if he won't admit it. I can only imagine how Miller would react to Hal giving Batman a hardcore beating (as opposed to just knocking Bats off his feet).

Would you believe I found this thread by accident?

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