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Old 05-25-2008, 12:53 PM   #51
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Default Re: how to create a strong connection with audience.

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The thing with that was that it failed not only did I not care for this Superman I actually liked Richard White better and thought Lois was better of with him. I am sure that cetainly was not Singers intention but sadly thats how things turnt out.
Same happened to me. Finally I see a superhero movie where things are not black and white (pun intended, I think). I thought I was going to hate Richard since traditionally on these movies, the “other guy” is often pretentious, unpleasant, greedy etc, so we can feel free to hate him and love our hero even more.

The same you speculate about Singer not wanting that I say the opposite: Singer depicted Richard as a noble man on purpose, so it wasn’t all an easy way to any resolution. We cannot hate Richard and, watching how Superman is always forbid to have a normal life, I felt like Lois had a true possibility with him.

In the end, I felt Jason was Superman’s reason to move on from Lois.


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Old 05-25-2008, 12:54 PM   #52
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I have noticed you state this a lot, *sighs* well I guess when what your defending is quality **** you have to grasp at any and all straws you can get your hands on. If we try and apply a bit of logic into things and take away all fanboyism we can come to a clear conclusion on how an inferior film like SR made more than BB, Ok first lets look at how long it was since we had a superman film prior to SR. The last superman film was titled Superman IV the quest for peace it was made 21yrs ago and in 2006 it would have been 19yrs. Imagine that 19yrs since superman was on the big screen, then we have the last Batman film which was titled Batman and Robin that was released in 1998 7 years in comparasion to Batman Begins. Now if we apply that logic I was talking about you would see that Batman was more fresh in the minds of the audience not only that but after the last disaster of a film( dubbed by many as the worst film ever made)did you think Batman was going to clean up at the box office? Hell no people were going to stay away from it.

As opposed to superman who was out of peoples minds, not to mention what people expected from a Superman film as opposed to a powerless Batman. Besides we all know superman is a bigger draw than Batman , although that seems to be changing.I guarantee you any sequel to that hazardous film will flop, no one will go near that rubbish, thats why WB need to flush out the people involved with SR and wipe the slate clean. We can all wait and see how the IH is received but a restart seems like the most plausible thing to do.

Well, this thread seems destined to be locked.

The problem with your assessment, is that it's way too unprovable. You probably are mostly correct, but it's absolutely impossible to gage how "fresh in the minds" of people B&R was. Or if Superman really is a bigger draw. BO results, budget numbers, and studio expectations are however well documented. That's why people keep citing them. The same logic you apply to Batman can be applied to Superman. I've noticed you haven't mentioned anything about POTC for instance.

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The "melodrama" fits perfectly with Spiderman's character his an angst teenager who lost his uncle blah blah blah we knew Parkers history from spidey1 from loser to hero. He was built up so we would care and cheer for him, with Singers Superman we were thrown in a world where we were meant to understand the history and care for the character. The thing with that was that it failed not only did I not care for this Superman I actually liked Richard White better and thought Lois was better of with him. I am sure that cetainly was not Singers intention but sadly thats how things turnt out.
I never said it was more suited for Superman, only that audiences are less likely to be bothered by it than say...you. Clearly Singer did want the audience to like Richard. The cliche would've been to make him a wife beater or run of the mill d***head.

So how do you suggest they give Superman a stronger connection with the audience in the sequel?

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Old 05-25-2008, 01:11 PM   #53
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SR’s sequel is rubbish? May I ask, when and where did you see it to judge it?


My apologises that statement was extremly bold, Let me put that clearly. What I meant was that I personally expect more crap and bore from Singer and despite how much action he promises I have had enough of him. His Verse is a mangled car crash with so many displeasing plots. I guess in the end it all boils down to trust and with Singer I dont trust him or his vision.


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Old 05-25-2008, 01:15 PM   #54
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I never said it was more suited for Superman, only that audiences are less likely to be bothered by it than say...you. Clearly Singer did want the audience to like Richard. The cliche would've been to make him a wife beater or run of the mill d***head.

So how do you suggest they give Superman a stronger connection with the audience in the sequel?
JJ's son was an all round nice guy who didnt do anything wrong but show MJ love and affection and I was still routing for Peter hmmmmmm and wonders never cease. I am 100% certain Singer did not intend for the audience to like Richard more than Superman the Heroe and all around nice guy, I think you missed my point. I just didnt like Richard but liked him more so than the supposed hero of the film, heck from what we saw of Richard he was Morally more noble than Superman.


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Old 05-25-2008, 01:42 PM   #55
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JJ's son was an all round nice guy who didnt do anything wrong but show MJ love and affection and I was still routing for Peter hmmmmmm and wonders never cease. I am 100% certain Singer did not intend for the audience to like Richard more than Superman the Heroe and all around nice guy, I think you missed my point. I just didnt like Richard but liked him more so than the supposed hero of the film, heck from what we saw of Richard he was Morally more noble than Superman.
The characters of John Jameson and Richard White are only really the same in the most general terms though. You can remove John from the equation and it doesn't really make that much of an impact, as you see from the end of SM 2. MJ really suffers no consequences. The same can't be said for Richard. I wasn't really rooting for Peter anyway. They made him out to be too much of douchbag in that movie, and of course more so in the third. Peter's not that dense in the comics. But anyway, I didn't miss your point. It's why I asked what you would do in MOS to give Superman a stronger connection to the audience.

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Old 05-25-2008, 01:52 PM   #56
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The characters of John Jameson and Richard White are only really the same in the most general terms though. You can remove John from the equation and it doesn't really make that much of an impact, as you see from the end of SM 2. MJ really suffers no consequences. The same can't be said for Richard. I wasn't really rooting for Peter anyway. They made him out to be too much of douchbag in that movie, and of course more so in the third. Peter's not that dense in the comics. But anyway, I didn't miss your point. It's why I asked what you would do in MOS to give Superman a stronger connection to the audience.
You might not have missed my point but you certainly missed my initial post which stated how I believe a connection with the audience can be made. As long with my above statement I think we need a reason to care for Superman and to see why he does what he does, I have seen a comment made by a member on here before stating that in SR Superman did what he did because he felt he had no choice. Superman has to be strong both physically and mentally, he has to have strong Moralls and be willing to sacrifice his needs in order to do the right thing. Obviosuly this been the 21 century it will have to be done in a classy way as opposed to a cheesy boyscout.


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Old 05-25-2008, 03:17 PM   #57
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I think the difference here is that Pete and MJ had never had a past romantic relationship and although they clearly wanted to, Peter wanted to commit to MJ but was more concerned for her safety and well being thinking that being with her would only endanger her. We never really felt that MJ cared for John in the first place and we just waited for Peter and MJ to finally become a couple. Superman and Lois had that relationship at some point and he decided to leave without a word to her. She moved on and five years later she is seen to have a child and is apart of a loving family that has been established. There really is no comparison there.

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Old 05-25-2008, 03:30 PM   #58
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I think the difference here is that Pete and MJ had never had a past romantic relationship and although they clearly wanted to, Peter wanted to commit to MJ but was more concerned for her safety and well being thinking that being with her would only endanger her. We never really felt that MJ cared for John in the first place and we just waited for Peter and MJ to finally become a couple. Superman and Lois had that relationship at some point and he decided to leave without a word to her. She moved on and five years later she is seen to have a child and is apart of a loving family that has been established. There really is no comparison there.
`My comparasion wasnt in refrence to how much the two side lovers were cared about by the heroes love interest but more so with the likeability of them. Someone above mentioned Richard wasnt the cliche other guy the love interest of the heroe ended up with, e.g. a drunk abusive boyfriend who treated her like crap. I then went on to point out that John Jameson was also a nice guy and I still liked Peter Parker better.

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Old 05-25-2008, 03:35 PM   #59
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`My comparasion wasnt in refrence to how much the two side lovers were cared about by the heroes love interest but more so with the likeability of them. Someone above mentioned Richard wasnt the cliche other guy the love interest of the heroe ended up with, e.g. a drunk abusive boyfriend who treated her like crap. I then went on to point out that John Jameson was also a nice guy and I still liked Peter Parker better.
OK, I understand. I thought there were comparisons being made to the situations as opposed to the individuals themselves. There are similarities to John and Richard. Both likeable and seem to be strongminded career oriented men who genuinely cared for those women. It was a lot easier for me to root for Peter than to root for Clark.

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Old 05-25-2008, 03:41 PM   #60
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Default Re: how to create a strong connection with audience.

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can all the sr likers pls just throw away all your hyper-sensitive self defend system?
we don't want another round of agrument on sr performance. bring stop all the ***** about the sr huge budget and how it's done better than bb.

if you think sr is perfect and need no improvement. fine. pls stop posting there and don't make this thread into another sr argument!!!

go away if you have no opinion!!! clear???!!!
The sad thing is that you're banned, not permanently, it is clear that you were looking for some instigate and flame the fan of SR.

Calling someone a singer ass kisser doesn't help you at all, it gets yourself to be banned.

We get it that you hate Superman Returns. Shut your face. We. Get. It.

You should've known better instead of flaming SR lovers.

Anyway, back on topic, I don't know how long this thread will be last. I loved Superman Returns, but I admit that the movie have its own lack of action and Clark/Superman's lines. I agree whoever said that Superman needs more lines. Same with Clark.

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Old 05-25-2008, 08:50 PM   #61
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Default Re: how to create a strong connection with audience.

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in a Jor-El way to express it - matters of undeniable fact.
Fixed.

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then we have the last Batman film which was titled Batman and Robin that was released in 1997 8 years in comparasion to Batman Begins.
Fixed.

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with Singer I dont trust him or his vision.
Me neither, .

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Old 05-26-2008, 02:30 AM   #62
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You might not have missed my point but you certainly missed my initial post which stated how I believe a connection with the audience can be made. As long with my above statement I think we need a reason to care for Superman and to see why he does what he does, I have seen a comment made by a member on here before stating that in SR Superman did what he did because he felt he had no choice. Superman has to be strong both physically and mentally, he has to have strong Moralls and be willing to sacrifice his needs in order to do the right thing. Obviosuly this been the 21 century it will have to be done in a classy way as opposed to a cheesy boyscout.
So what he does in SR... just more so.

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`My compara1sion wasnt in refrence to how much the two side lovers were cared about by the heroes love interest but more so with the likeability of them. Someone above mentioned Richard wasnt the cliche other guy the love interest of the heroe ended up with, e.g. a drunk abusive boyfriend who treated her like crap. I then went on to point out that John Jameson was also a nice guy and I still liked Peter Parker better.
My point being: John Jameson was a very minor role with hardly any development. His sole purpose is to help facilitate Peter losing something. You're supposed to like Peter more, he's the hero and main character.

In SR, Richard is himself a main character who is also meant to be a hero in his own right. It's not given to the viewer as an easy choice about who to "root for". That's what makes it more than just a gimmick.

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Old 05-26-2008, 07:40 AM   #63
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Wow, superbaby seems to have done a dummy spit and gone on a thread creating frenzy.

Well, some time to cool his heels is certainly required (I seem to remember a similar thing with buggs a few months ago).

Anyways, as for a strong connection to the audience; that's a tough one. Certainly giving Routh more to work with as both Clark and Superman would help, as well as giving him a more commanding presence.

That said, though, I don't want have to diagnose him with verbal diarrohea (sp?). Though I'm a relatively quiet person myself, so I'm biased.

But I think also playing up the father-son aspect as well between him and Jason; I'm sure we can all see ourselves in some of that (yeah, I know some of you don't like Jason under any circumstances, but I beg your indulgence). We can all relate to being someone's offspring or parent, I'm sure.

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Old 05-26-2008, 07:44 AM   #64
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Default Re: how to create a strong connection with audience.

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if SR has made the connection with so many people, the sequel would have been greenlit and in production now.
and btw, if you have no comment/idea, pls don't make a post.

most importantly, bring your SR praises elsewhere. this isn't about SR.
I'll go were ever i please thanks, you asked a question of how to make Superman connect with the audience i answered, what is the problem.

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this thread is for the superman fans to give their own opinions on how to make strong connection with the audiences for the new superman movie.
I am a Superman fan, i have read 28 Superman graphic novels, NON of which were anything to do with Singer.

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Old 05-26-2008, 10:47 AM   #65
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Give Superman more lines.
Not just more lines, but more character interaction. SUPERMAN RETURNS presented him as a bit mysterious a character. MAN OF STEEL needs to have a Superman that people want to know, want to aspire to, etc. Not someone who saves you and just flies off.

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Old 05-26-2008, 11:03 AM   #66
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Yeah, that's what I said...?

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Old 05-26-2008, 12:23 PM   #67
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The curious thing is that it never ceases to be true.



On the contrary, when defending quality you have all the movie to talk about. It’s only when you lack of something solid on the movie when you resort to numbers.



Both Batman and Superman had terrible movies years ago and then they tried to come back. Batman Begins was treated as a prequel to B89 and no one had doubts SR was linked to the Donner franchise. Both got similar BO numbers. Those are – in a Jor-El way to express it - facts of undeniable truth.

Now, a limit of time between people remembering the last movie and not rememering it sounds palusible, but how to be sure?



.
Batman Begins is not a prequel to the 89 Batman it was a complete reboot.

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Old 05-26-2008, 12:26 PM   #68
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I don't want have to diagnose him with verbal diarrohea (sp?).
Diarrhoea.

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I'm a relatively quiet person myself, so I'm biased.
I'm quiet too, super quiet. In fact, here's about the only place where I talk a lot.

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Old 05-26-2008, 12:27 PM   #69
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Batman Begins is not a prequel to the 89 Batman it was a complete reboot.
I think he knows that. I think what he might mean is that the audience were confused, and thought that it was a prequel.

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Old 05-26-2008, 02:24 PM   #70
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Wow, superbaby seems to have done a dummy spit and gone on a thread creating frenzy.

Well, some time to cool his heels is certainly required (I seem to remember a similar thing with buggs a few months ago).
Only reason I was banned back then was because I did the same thing a set of other posters had done to me. Only difference is when it was done to me, I didn't go crying to every mod on at the time like they did. That was the only reason I got banned back then

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Old 05-26-2008, 03:40 PM   #71
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Only reason I was banned back then was because I did the same thing a set of other posters had done to me. Only difference is when it was done to me, I didn't go crying to every mod on at the time like they did. That was the only reason I got banned back then
Don't forget that you insulted people on private messages. That's what a real man does, right?

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Old 05-26-2008, 04:37 PM   #72
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Default Re: how to create a strong connection with audience.

Buggs, it's "Those of you who are on my ignore list, don't bother responding to this. I won't see it. You are on my ignore list, so replying to my posts is pointless."

Please stop making your tagline an unintended joke.

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Old 05-26-2008, 06:56 PM   #73
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Default Re: how to create a strong connection with audience.

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Batman Begins is not a prequel to the 89 Batman it was a complete reboot.
Nervertheless, TV people around the world talked about it as a prequel. That's what I meant.

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Old 05-26-2008, 07:30 PM   #74
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The thread isn't about Buggs, it is about connecting with the audience, keep it on track or this thread goes.

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Old 05-26-2008, 07:40 PM   #75
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Default Re: how to create a strong connection with audience.

You create a connection with our audience by getting them to CONNECT with their characterss; that imo was the only real thing Singer was able to do with his film. Though a lot of stuff was not what it could have been, most people cared about Superman, Lois, Jason, and Richard. The problem is though, we cared because of who they are were.

Its Superman, he is the main character. We're going to care about him. He cares a bout Lois. Lois has a young child. We will care about what happens to her. Jason is a little kid. We will automatically care about him. Richard is a good guy, we'll care about him. There was not much depth to it though. Had we not know who Superman or Lois were prior to the film, you would not have given a damn about them.

Connecting witt audience should not be that hard. For a reboot (a sequel would have the same connections as the 1st, so no need to talk about it) it depends on the audience.

The kids and teenagers should be connected with in the action. The storyline that they should really like should be the main conflict between Superman and the villain.

Most women or older adults should be there for the more dramatic storylines ala...Superman being burdened by powers or his love for Lois.

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