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View Poll Results: Post-Crisis or Pre-Crisis
Post-Crisis Clark is the main identity. 32 78.05%
Pre-Crisis Superman is the main identity. 9 21.95%
Voters: 41. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 08-27-2008, 11:26 PM   #26
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Default Re: Post-Crisis or Pre-Crisis

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Primarily post-COIE, but I see no reason why some pre-COIE elements cannot be added in.
Ditto, much like the current comics are doing.

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Old 08-28-2008, 12:11 AM   #27
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Default Re: Post-Crisis or Pre-Crisis

i dont know why both cant be done, and i dont see how people forget about lois and clark and TAS as examples of post crisis supes in the media

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Old 08-28-2008, 12:26 AM   #28
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Default Re: Post-Crisis or Pre-Crisis

Pre-Crisis all the way. It's the Post-Crisis version that is the castrated version, the lame farmboy that DC has stressed for 20+years is inferior to Batman. It's the Post-Crisis version that runs home to his momma everytime things tough. It's not even the powers. Limiting Supes' power level is ok but taking away his confidence, his drive, his maturity and his place as the world's first and greatest hero is what has destroyed Superman's popularity.

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Old 08-28-2008, 12:26 AM   #29
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umm...forgive my ignorance.....but what EXACTLY is Pre-Crisis / Post-Crisis??

I'll admit I'm not much of a comic book reader......and these terms have always confused me.......
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Now that was not very hospitable. Believe it or not there was a time when I didn't know what the term "crisis" meant.

Okay Super-Bats, I'll break it down for ya: basically, during the 1980s DC did a massive retcon (an alteration of official story canon) of the DC Universe. This was accomplished through a massive story arc called "The Crisis of Infinite Earths," and it was named as such because at that time, there were alternate dimensions which had different versions of each character. The goal of the Crisis arc was to stream line the continuity of the DC Universe and make things less confusing by eliminating the multiple earths and establishing the continuity that would follow for the next 10 of 15 years.

Ironically enough, the Crisis arc still left a lot of things jumbled and confusing, so DC would eventually go through a few subsequent "crisis" type events to further retcon and define continuity. These events, which included the relaunching of several comics (including Superman) altered certain aspects of their character. In the case of Superman, it resulted in him having drastically scaled back levels of power, and it also re-defined the nature of his dual identities.

The main difference between pre-crisis and post-crisis Superman is how he relates to the reader. Pre-Crisis Superman was almost like a greek god, where his feats became large scale to the point of ridiculousness, like throwing planets through space (not unlike how in SR, he lifts a moon-sized sphere of Kryptonite out of the ocean and into space). He was fairly impersonal, often personified as a perfect being who is high above the rest of the human race. He was first and foremost Kal-El, earth's Kryptonian protector sent by Jor-El. He was nearly a demigod, which readers eventually grew tired of. People weren't able to relate to him as much, and that was the main reason why Marvel frequently ran circles around DC in terms of sales.

Post-crisis Superman, however, was a much more down-to-earth being. He was noticeably less powerful, with many of his frivelous powers (such as memory-erasing saliva) were removed. More importantly however, this time he was Clark Kent above all else. They emphasized the fact that Clark was raised by humans, and as such he thought and behaved as a human would. He had doubts about himself, and struggled with day to day life the same way a normal person would. Superman was a symbol that Clark would use to protect his identity and inspire people, but Clark does not actually see himself as being nearly as great as what Superman is seen as. Clark Kent is quite literally a mild mannered person who was capable of doing great things, and decided to do them because his parents taught him that it was the right thing to do. Readers found this version of Superman much more relatable, and as a result the comic's post crisis circulation saw big improvements.

So that's the big deal with pre and post crisis. Bryan Singer deliberately stated before making SR that he prefered pre-crisis Superman, because that was the one that Richard Donner used. However, myself I would much rather see post crisis Superman, because I think he has more depth, and he's someone I'm more interested in getting to know as a character.

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Old 08-28-2008, 04:19 AM   #30
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I mostly like post-crisis Superman, but I dont like Clark being the real identity. Clark Kent has to be bumbling. The disguise is flimsy enough as it is, and the demeanor is the only thing that ever gave it the slightest bit of credibility. People should laugh at the idea of Clark Kent being Superman.

I prefer the idea of there being 3 personas. Superman and the bumbling reporter Clark Kent being fake, while the real persona being Clark Kent as he is at home, with his parents. Just like Batman, where there's Batman, playboy Bruce, and the real Bruce when he's with Alfred.

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Old 08-28-2008, 04:56 AM   #31
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Default Re: Post-Crisis or Pre-Crisis

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Make that two!
make it three

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Old 08-28-2008, 05:01 AM   #32
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I mostly like post-crisis Superman, but I dont like Clark being the real identity. Clark Kent has to be bumbling. The disguise is flimsy enough as it is, and the demeanor is the only thing that ever gave it the slightest bit of credibility. People should laugh at the idea of Clark Kent being Superman.

I prefer the idea of there being 3 personas. Superman and the bumbling reporter Clark Kent being fake, while the real persona being Clark Kent as he is at home, with his parents. Just like Batman, where there's Batman, playboy Bruce, and the real Bruce when he's with Alfred.
i agree totally

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Old 08-28-2008, 05:29 AM   #33
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Default Re: Post-Crisis or Pre-Crisis

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The main difference between pre-crisis and post-crisis Superman is how he relates to the reader. Pre-Crisis Superman was almost like a greek god, where his feats became large scale to the point of ridiculousness, like throwing planets through space (not unlike how in SR, he lifts a moon-sized sphere of Kryptonite out of the ocean and into space). He was fairly impersonal, often personified as a perfect being who is high above the rest of the human race. He was first and foremost Kal-El, earth's Kryptonian protector sent by Jor-El. He was nearly a demigod, which readers eventually grew tired of. People weren't able to relate to him as much, and that was the main reason why Marvel frequently ran circles around DC in terms of sales.
That's absolutely not right. The sales declined by the early 80s. Superman was actually the guy who came close to Marvel sales by the end of the 70s. (before Marvel was much smaller than DC).

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Post-crisis Superman, however, was a much more down-to-earth being. He was noticeably less powerful, with many of his frivelous powers (such as memory-erasing saliva) were removed. More importantly however, this time he was Clark Kent above all else. They emphasized the fact that Clark was raised by humans, and as such he thought and behaved as a human would. He had doubts about himself, and struggled with day to day life the same way a normal person would. Superman was a symbol that Clark would use to protect his identity and inspire people, but Clark does not actually see himself as being nearly as great as what Superman is seen as. Clark Kent is quite literally a mild mannered person who was capable of doing great things, and decided to do them because his parents taught him that it was the right thing to do. Readers found this version of Superman much more relatable, and as a result the comic's post crisis circulation saw big improvements.
You are probably too young to know this. THe sales went up because it was something "new" and a then-famous Marvel creator named John Byrne took over. He made Superman into a Marvel character. After that the sales declined again and where nowhere near the pre-crisis sales. The Marvel readers simply didn't like "Superman" and the old fans didn't like the new "Superman".

As for the whole topic: Of course pre-crisis. Because that IS Superman how he was ment to be. Post-crisis was a weak Marvel imitation, hardly to call him "Superman", because he was a total inversion of the concept. Also the post-crisis world was caught in a pseudo-realism. Pre-Crisis was so full of imagination and amazing concepts.


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Old 08-28-2008, 05:30 AM   #34
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Default Re: Post-Crisis or Pre-Crisis

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I prefer the idea of there being 3 personas. Superman and the bumbling reporter Clark Kent being fake, while the real persona being Clark Kent as he is at home, with his parents. Just like Batman, where there's Batman, playboy Bruce, and the real Bruce when he's with Alfred.
That works for Batman, but Superman is SUPPOSED to be NOT an act. He is what he is. Metropolis Clark is an act and private Clark is a Superman light variant.

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Old 08-28-2008, 05:43 AM   #35
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Default Re: Post-Crisis or Pre-Crisis

I think I'm now ready for a Post Crisis Superman movie! One where he eventually tells Lois who he is, they move in together and his secret identity is Superman!

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Old 08-28-2008, 05:53 AM   #36
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Post-Crisis Superman = Not Superman.

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Old 08-28-2008, 06:19 AM   #37
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People keep reffering to the 1978 Donner Superman as "Pre-Crisis", when he is not the Pre-Crisis Superman, he is Donner's own version. There are some pretty big differences between the movie Superman and the Pre-Crisis Superman from the comics.

- Pre-Crisis Superman was Superboy while in Smallville. Donner's was not.
- Pre-Crisis Krypton looked totally different from the Donner version. it was much more Flash Gordon/Jetsons looking.
-Pre-Crisis Luthor was a mad scientest, and knew Superman from his Superboy days.
-Pre-Crisis Superman was a bit more powerful than movie Supes, turning time back or not. In the movie it seemed like that particular task put a strain on him, where in the comics he could fly through time under his own power and do more spectacular feats without breaking a sweat.
-Pre-Crisis, BOTH Ma and Pa Kent die.

What's funny is that Post Crisis Superman has MORE in common with Donner Superman than Pre-Crisi does! Yet people cite the Donner version as being the Pre-Crisis version simply because it came out in '78, putting it chronologically 7 years before the Crisis was published. But by that time, the movie series was so ingrained in the public's mind, that John Byrne and Marv Wolfman made the new Post Crisis Superman resemble the movie version more than he ever had before.

-Post Crisis Superman's Krypton is a stark, cold world, where Jor-El wears flowing robes and things seem a bit more inspired by the Donner Krypton than the Pre-Crisis Krypton
-Superman never had a public career as Superboy Post Crisis
-Lex Luthor is now an evil business man, not a mad scientest. This was writer Marv Wolfman's idea, who was inspired somewhat by the movie Luthor, although a more poweful and less goofy version.
-Ma Kent is alive

The version we have now in the comics is kind of a mix of both versions, with some Donner thrown in. And frankly, that's what any reboot needs to do as well. There are 70 years worth of stuff, pick and choose the best.

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Old 08-28-2008, 07:02 AM   #38
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Default Re: Post-Crisis or Pre-Crisis

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Originally Posted by Lestat74 View Post
People keep reffering to the 1978 Donner Superman as "Pre-Crisis", when he is not the Pre-Crisis Superman, he is Donner's own version. There are some pretty big differences between the movie Superman and the Pre-Crisis Superman from the comics.

- Pre-Crisis Superman was Superboy while in Smallville. Donner's was not.
- Pre-Crisis Krypton looked totally different from the Donner version. it was much more Flash Gordon/Jetsons looking.
-Pre-Crisis Luthor was a mad scientest, and knew Superman from his Superboy days.
-Pre-Crisis Superman was a bit more powerful than movie Supes, turning time back or not. In the movie it seemed like that particular task put a strain on him, where in the comics he could fly through time under his own power and do more spectacular feats without breaking a sweat.
-Pre-Crisis, BOTH Ma and Pa Kent die.

What's funny is that Post Crisis Superman has MORE in common with Donner Superman than Pre-Crisi does! Yet people cite the Donner version as being the Pre-Crisis version simply because it came out in '78, putting it chronologically 7 years before the Crisis was published. But by that time, the movie series was so ingrained in the public's mind, that John Byrne and Marv Wolfman made the new Post Crisis Superman resemble the movie version more than he ever had before.

-Post Crisis Superman's Krypton is a stark, cold world, where Jor-El wears flowing robes and things seem a bit more inspired by the Donner Krypton than the Pre-Crisis Krypton
-Superman never had a public career as Superboy Post Crisis
-Lex Luthor is now an evil business man, not a mad scientest. This was writer Marv Wolfman's idea, who was inspired somewhat by the movie Luthor, although a more poweful and less goofy version.
-Ma Kent is alive

The version we have now in the comics is kind of a mix of both versions, with some Donner thrown in. And frankly, that's what any reboot needs to do as well. There are 70 years worth of stuff, pick and choose the best.
Exactly. Finally someone with a clue. The post-crisis version took a lot from the Donner movie(s).



The pre-crisis Luthor has such a bad reputation because the "new" comic book fans because they think he was like Hackman's portrayal. He was not even close.

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Old 08-28-2008, 07:57 AM   #39
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Default Re: Post-Crisis or Pre-Crisis

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Not to be a smart-ass, but I'd say Post-Crisis with Superman as the main identity.
Same here. When I think Pre-Crisis I think Superman with God-like powers. Post Crisis is more toned down.

With that in mind, I voted Post-Crisis but Superman being the main identity.

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Old 08-28-2008, 10:00 AM   #40
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I'd prefer the Post-Crisis on Infinite Earths, Post-Identity Crisis, but Pre-Infinite Crisis and Final Crisis Superman.

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Old 08-28-2008, 12:19 PM   #41
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I'd prefer the Post-Crisis on Infinite Earths, Post-Identity Crisis, but Pre-Infinite Crisis and Final Crisis Superman.


You know what scares me? I understand exactly what you are saying.

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Old 08-28-2008, 12:52 PM   #42
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You know what scares me? I understand exactly what you are saying.
Yeah, I know what you mean. It actually does make sense if you've been able to keep up with DC's ludicrous "Crisis" series over the years.

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Old 08-28-2008, 01:04 PM   #43
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Originally Posted by Lestat74 View Post
People keep reffering to the 1978 Donner Superman as "Pre-Crisis", when he is not the Pre-Crisis Superman, he is Donner's own version. There are some pretty big differences between the movie Superman and the Pre-Crisis Superman from the comics.

- Pre-Crisis Superman was Superboy while in Smallville. Donner's was not.
- Pre-Crisis Krypton looked totally different from the Donner version. it was much more Flash Gordon/Jetsons looking.
-Pre-Crisis Luthor was a mad scientest, and knew Superman from his Superboy days.
-Pre-Crisis Superman was a bit more powerful than movie Supes, turning time back or not. In the movie it seemed like that particular task put a strain on him, where in the comics he could fly through time under his own power and do more spectacular feats without breaking a sweat.
-Pre-Crisis, BOTH Ma and Pa Kent die.

What's funny is that Post Crisis Superman has MORE in common with Donner Superman than Pre-Crisi does! Yet people cite the Donner version as being the Pre-Crisis version simply because it came out in '78, putting it chronologically 7 years before the Crisis was published. But by that time, the movie series was so ingrained in the public's mind, that John Byrne and Marv Wolfman made the new Post Crisis Superman resemble the movie version more than he ever had before.

-Post Crisis Superman's Krypton is a stark, cold world, where Jor-El wears flowing robes and things seem a bit more inspired by the Donner Krypton than the Pre-Crisis Krypton
-Superman never had a public career as Superboy Post Crisis
-Lex Luthor is now an evil business man, not a mad scientest. This was writer Marv Wolfman's idea, who was inspired somewhat by the movie Luthor, although a more poweful and less goofy version.
-Ma Kent is alive

The version we have now in the comics is kind of a mix of both versions, with some Donner thrown in. And frankly, that's what any reboot needs to do as well. There are 70 years worth of stuff, pick and choose the best.
LUTHOR'S DONNER is nooooooooooooothing like the post-crisis version. NOTHING.

I like the way it is presented in Superman for all seasons. That is Superman to me.

Superman is not an act, Neither is Clark. They are real, part of the same personality.

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Old 08-28-2008, 01:34 PM   #44
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There has only been one Crisis for me...

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Old 08-28-2008, 03:57 PM   #45
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LUTHOR'S DONNER is nooooooooooooothing like the post-crisis version. NOTHING.
Yes, the post-crisis version of Richard Donner is nothing like the one that Lex Luthor created in his 1978 movie.

Post-crisis, Richard Donner is a respected director and the folks at WB revere him for making the only 100% exceptional Superman film.

Rewind to Pre-Crisis Richard Donner, when he was involved in a pissing contest with WB during the making of Superman 2 which resulted in Donner making an exit and hiring a lackluster talent to put the finishing touches on an inferior film (still a decent movie, just not great, and we all know it was downhill from there).

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Old 08-28-2008, 04:11 PM   #46
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Originally Posted by Lestat74 View Post
People keep reffering to the 1978 Donner Superman as "Pre-Crisis", when he is not the Pre-Crisis Superman, he is Donner's own version. There are some pretty big differences between the movie Superman and the Pre-Crisis Superman from the comics.

- Pre-Crisis Superman was Superboy while in Smallville. Donner's was not.
- Pre-Crisis Krypton looked totally different from the Donner version. it was much more Flash Gordon/Jetsons looking.
-Pre-Crisis Luthor was a mad scientest, and knew Superman from his Superboy days.
-Pre-Crisis Superman was a bit more powerful than movie Supes, turning time back or not. In the movie it seemed like that particular task put a strain on him, where in the comics he could fly through time under his own power and do more spectacular feats without breaking a sweat.
-Pre-Crisis, BOTH Ma and Pa Kent die.

What's funny is that Post Crisis Superman has MORE in common with Donner Superman than Pre-Crisi does! Yet people cite the Donner version as being the Pre-Crisis version simply because it came out in '78, putting it chronologically 7 years before the Crisis was published. But by that time, the movie series was so ingrained in the public's mind, that John Byrne and Marv Wolfman made the new Post Crisis Superman resemble the movie version more than he ever had before.

-Post Crisis Superman's Krypton is a stark, cold world, where Jor-El wears flowing robes and things seem a bit more inspired by the Donner Krypton than the Pre-Crisis Krypton
-Superman never had a public career as Superboy Post Crisis
-Lex Luthor is now an evil business man, not a mad scientest. This was writer Marv Wolfman's idea, who was inspired somewhat by the movie Luthor, although a more poweful and less goofy version.
-Ma Kent is alive

The version we have now in the comics is kind of a mix of both versions, with some Donner thrown in. And frankly, that's what any reboot needs to do as well. There are 70 years worth of stuff, pick and choose the best.
Yeah, as soon as Byrne's revamp came out, I knew they took much of it from the movies. Although the most damaging change-the personality change, as the very authorative and respected Kal-El became farmboy Clark-was new, as the movies more or less got Superman and Clark right.

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Old 08-28-2008, 05:13 PM   #47
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LUTHOR'S DONNER is nooooooooooooothing like the post-crisis version. NOTHING.

I like the way it is presented in Superman for all seasons. That is Superman to me.

Superman is not an act, Neither is Clark. They are real, part of the same personality.
Ok, I'm gonna just assume you meant Donner's Luthor, not the other way around. And I remember reading an interview with Marv Wolfman ( who actually was the person who came up with the Lexcorp version of Lex, not Byrne ) where he said that part of the inspiration did indeed come from the Donner Luthor, as he was a character that clearly had a lot of money once and was then disgraced and had to literally go underground. From there on out, the characters diverged significantly, as comics Lex was smarter and more ruthless, and was not "disgraced" for decades, but the original intent was for that to happen sooner in the comics. But everyone loved that version of Lex so much he stuck around. But there was an inspiration there.

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Old 08-28-2008, 05:20 PM   #48
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I know it was SOME KIND of inspiration. And i KNOW It was Marv Wolfman who did it together with Byrne. You do not have to enlighten me in Superman's history.

Post-crisis (AND Pre-crisis) are SOOOOOO much diferent than DONNER'S LUTHOR that its not funny. He doesnt hang around with stupid goons or bimbos, do wisecracks all the time, is interested in LAND and more LAND. And thank god there is no OTIS or KITTY KOWALSKY, whatever.

Donner's Luthor is similar to the Ruby Spears cartoon one and that was kinda of a middle term between both his and Marv Wolfman's.

Wolfman was inspired and improved sooooooo much.

I hate Donner's Luthor, i thought he got it totally wrong. I just cant take that character seriously at all except for some scenes.

That being said, I prefer the Birthright version without the Smallville origin.

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Old 08-28-2008, 07:23 PM   #49
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I know it was SOME KIND of inspiration. And i KNOW It was Marv Wolfman who did it together with Byrne. You do not have to enlighten me in Superman's history.
I wasn't trying to one up ya on your knowledge of Superman lore there buddy. It's just a Superman factoid that not everyone might be aware of.

If the only Lex I had known had been the superior post Crisis version, I could totally see how people would hate on the Donner version. Especially if the movie had come out after that version was created. But it didn't. The truth is, pre-Crisis Lex was a pretty generic mustache twirling villain whose only motivation for hating Superman was that he made his hair fall out when they were kids. He then spends the rest of his life inventing things like giant robots and death rays but can't come up with a way to make his hair grow back. I could see how Donner and company chose to keep the name and ditch some of the more outlandish stuff. That's why when I watch it, I simply remember that "my" Lex simply didn't exist yet, so I can only be so dissapointed.

But I still hate Otis. Oh well, the movie is almost perfect. Can't love it all.

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Old 08-28-2008, 07:27 PM   #50
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Yes, the post-crisis version of Richard Donner is nothing like the one that Lex Luthor created in his 1978 movie.

Post-crisis, Richard Donner is a respected director and the folks at WB revere him for making the only 100% exceptional Superman film.

Rewind to Pre-Crisis Richard Donner, when he was involved in a pissing contest with WB during the making of Superman 2 which resulted in Donner making an exit and hiring a lackluster talent to put the finishing touches on an inferior film (still a decent movie, just not great, and we all know it was downhill from there).
I hate his Superman II and I dont think that the Donner movies are really thaaaat good story wise. I've seen better origins.

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