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Old 09-15-2008, 12:36 PM   #101
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Default Re: What should Krypton look like?

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You somehow think that how krypton is presented has some correlation to how clark feels about krypton...which makes NO DAMN SENSE, considering that Donner's krypton has the same cold sterile environment....and donner's Superman embraces his heritage, or else he wouldnt spend his time in the Fortress of Solitude listening to holograms of his parents

Crying over relatives he didnt know he had? Uh....that tends to happen when you've been ADOPTED...you kinda...I dunno...wonder about the place where you actually came from...and then, you continue to have a skewed view on pre crisis despite the fact that you've lived during the silver age....silver age clark didnt seem to cry so much to me...he was just a man that honored where he came from and also honored where he was going...how that is less adult than saying "Screw where my roots came from", baffles me...but then again...obviously, you're sadly biased. I dont have a pre crisis bias...Post Crisis offers great story complexity but most of the ideas were lacking...Pre crisis had concepts and ideas that were great, but shallow storytelling

And the main point of how biased and mind-bendingly ridculous your statement was is that what you said about "The tragedy of krypton"...can be pretty much said...about...every version of krypton...you pretentiously claim to be about depth, but you clearly cant see further than what's right in front of you if all you got from silver age krypton was "Durrrr, 1950's Sci fi"...when psycologists have written books based on research of silver age comics....
Hey, hey, don't cloud the issues with facts!

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Old 09-15-2008, 12:57 PM   #102
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Default Re: What should Krypton look like?

It is undeniable the fact that the post-crisis Krypton has waaaaaay more depth than pre-crisis and MUCH MORE cool designs ,wether you like this intepretations or not.

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Old 09-15-2008, 01:01 PM   #103
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It is undeniable the fact that the post-crisis Krypton has waaaaaay more depth than pre-crisis and MUCH MORE cool designs ,wether you like this intepretations or not.
Opinions.

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Old 09-15-2008, 01:06 PM   #104
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It is undeniable the fact that the post-crisis Krypton has waaaaaay more depth than pre-crisis and MUCH MORE cool designs ,wether you like this intepretations or not.
What you just said is pretty much contradictory...its like saying you hate mayonase, but mayonase tastes MUCH BETTER than chocolate...

Not to mention Tyler tries to imply that pre crisis krypton had NO depth to it...which is what i was disputing

how about we stop making blanket statements about pre crisis to show our love for post crisis? its really not needed...

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Old 09-15-2008, 01:19 PM   #105
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WTf? Post-crisis has way more depth, history, cooler designs. Plus, IMO, the great thing about it is that IT SHOWS how MUCH MORE Earth is important to Superman.

Superman says in the end of World of Krypton.

"I've never really had the opportunity to run through this whole story before. Never put it all into words like this. I feel SAD, even FRUSTRATED for Jor-el. For Lara. There's a whole world of human feeling they never knew. Never even guessed. And I realize that was Jor-el's GIFT to me. What he gave me by sending me here. Not these super-powers. By sending me away from Krypton, Jor-el gave me the gift of HUMANITY."

To me, Byrne's Krypton is an AMAZING COMPLIMENT TO EARTH. Plus, how much of a pivotal role the Kents had in making Superman the man who is. The greatest irony of it all is that Superman is the most human alien ever. As he should, after all, he is an inspiration to all of us. The fact an alien cares so much about us, why can't we?

Plus, It has much more depth and a reason for the planet to explode. The fact that wars destroyed the planet's core, etc. And lets not mention the Eradicator, the amazing designs for Jor-el and Lara and the whole civilization, how they really look alien and different than human beings.

Post-crisis IS RICH, in a lot of more ways than pre-crsisis was, and that is UNDENIABLE.

I believe, however, that the movie Krypton should be a mix of both eras, like TAS.


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Old 09-15-2008, 02:13 PM   #106
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Default Re: What should Krypton look like?

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WTf? Post-crisis has way more depth, history, cooler designs. Plus, IMO, the great thing about it is that IT SHOWS how MUCH MORE Earth is important to Superman.

Superman says in the end of World of Krypton.

"I've never really had the opportunity to run through this whole story before. Never put it all into words like this. I feel SAD, even FRUSTRATED for Jor-el. For Lara. There's a whole world of human feeling they never knew. Never even guessed. And I realize that was Jor-el's GIFT to me. What he gave me by sending me here. Not these super-powers. By sending me away from Krypton, Jor-el gave me the gift of HUMANITY."

To me, Byrne's Krypton is an AMAZING COMPLIMENT TO EARTH. Plus, how much of a pivotal role the Kents had in making Superman the man who is. The greatest irony of it all is that Superman is the most human alien ever. As he should, after all, he is an inspiration to all of us. The fact an alien cares so much about us, why can't we?

Plus, It has much more depth and a reason for the planet to explode. The fact that wars destroyed the planet's core, etc. And lets not mention the Eradicator, the amazing designs for Jor-el and Lara and the whole civilization, how they really look alien and different than human beings.

Post-crisis IS RICH, in a lot of more ways than pre-crsisis was, and that is UNDENIABLE.

I believe, however, that the movie Krypton should be a mix of both eras, like TAS.
Yes, Daniel...we get it...you love post crisis....no surprise there...and ive already said post crisis superman has more complexity to it....but, at the end of the day, all that is still opinion, not undeniable fact....and this is from someone who likes the fact that post crisis expanded on these ideas...

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Old 09-15-2008, 02:48 PM   #107
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Default Re: What should Krypton look like?

Lara and Jor-El kissing when Krypton explodes is so much better than a lame conversaton between them.

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Old 09-15-2008, 03:49 PM   #108
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Default Re: What should Krypton look like?

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So, you've lived through the silver age, and never heard of the 1979 mini series world of krypton?
Yes, as a matter of fact I own the whole series. There is an important issue where Curt finally got to ink his own pencils. Curt was never really done justice by anyone other than himself.

Does that comment have a point?

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Yeah...you're full of it...nothin to see here, folks...
Watch it.
I consider that unfortunate remark to be highly inflammatory.

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Old 09-15-2008, 03:50 PM   #109
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Default Re: What should Krypton look like?

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Lara and Jor-El kissing when Krypton explodes is so much better than a lame conversaton between them.
That is your opinion of the conversation. You need to clarify.

I personally think it sets up what follows and defines what preceded well.

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Old 09-15-2008, 04:23 PM   #110
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Yes, as a matter of fact I own the whole series. There is an important issue where Curt finally got to ink his own pencils. Curt was never really done justice by anyone other than himself.

Does that comment have a point?
Yeah...you made it sound as if pre crisis didnt have an in depth history of its krypton....yeah, it dosent have as much details as post crisis...but its there. And you neglected to mention it



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Watch it.
I consider that unfortunate remark to be highly inflammatory.
I'm sorry...its quite unfortunate and irritating when someone claims to be a fan of a certain character, but likes to tear down an aspect of that characters history thats been around for 45 years and laid down the groundwork of the aspects that said person prefers. Again, its not wrong to prefer post crisis, but to refer to post crisis as more "Adult" using trivial details just comes off as "Gee, pre crisis sucks, post crisis rules!" I, personally, admire colorful cartoony krypton, just like i admire crystal krypton, just like i admire brynes.

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Old 09-15-2008, 05:19 PM   #111
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Default Re: What should Krypton look like?

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You somehow think that how krypton is presented has some correlation to how clark feels about krypton...which makes NO DAMN SENSE, considering that Donner's krypton has the same cold sterile environment....and donner's Superman embraces his heritage, or else he wouldnt spend his time in the Fortress of Solitude listening to holograms of his parents
I fail to see why you're bringing up Donner? I'm not exactly a fan of that film and really not a fan of Donner's Krypton. I don't like the allusions to Jor-el being God the father.

And, yes, I do feel that how Krypton is presented impacts how Clark feels about a number of things. To paraphrase Byrne and Wolfman : "Krypton gave me these powers but Earth made me human."

Clark doesn't embrace Krypton as something to aspire to in MOS but rather as lessons learned. His heritage is exciting but in no way does it superceed his heritage on Earth. He is a citizen of our planet first and of Kryptonian descent second. I'm an American first and of Italian descent second.

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Crying over relatives he didnt know he had? Uh....that tends to happen when you've been ADOPTED...you kinda...I dunno...wonder about the place where you actually came from...
You're adopted?

My apologies if I haven't made myself clear. I have no doubt that Clark would wonder about his history. I'm not adopted and I wonder about mine.

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and then, you continue to have a skewed view on pre crisis despite the fact that you've lived during the silver age...
And skewed is your opinion. There were things I like about the silver age and things I didn't.

I prefer the silver age Flash and Green Lantern. ...

As silly as he was, I really liked Utra The Mulit-Alien.

I really really prefer the Silver Age Doom Patrol. It hasn't been good since.

I liked the Silver Age Fortress of Solitude better than what's being done now.

I don't like baby Kal-el being strapped into a rocket with a few blankets and launched into space. This isn't Moses being floated a few feet down a stream. This is a hazardous journey crossing many light years in what amounts to a metal cannister. The baby wouldn't survive it. It would arrive dead.

I don't like the costume gaining super powers under a yellow sun. It's too silly. A dead fiber can't benefit from solar radiation. Having Martha create the costume from terrestrial materials actually first happened in the George Reeve's series. Byrne just brought it back. It makes sense.

I don't like all those different types of Kryptonite.

I can live with the red as long as it doesn't instantly mutate him. I like on Smallville how it alters his personality.

The Jewel Forest is an interesting idea but it's really in need of serious tweaking to make it believable.

There - some likes, don't likes, and some compromises about Pre Crisis.

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.silver age clark didnt seem to cry so much to me...
Please tell me where in post crisis (other than that awful film by singer) where Clark has become a leaky faucet? At least not during or immediately after Byrne.

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he was just a man that honored where he came from and also honored where he was going...how that is less adult than saying "Screw where my roots came from",
Where did I say this?
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baffles me...but then again...obviously, you're sadly biased. I dont have a pre crisis bias...Post Crisis offers great story complexity but most of the ideas were lacking...Pre crisis had concepts and ideas that were great, but shallow storytelling
I agree about the complexity with the post crisis stories. I have to disagree, however, about the depth of storytelling. Please find a copy of 'Crisis at Hand' and read that. Then follow it up with the Superman in Exile arc.

There were some interesting stories in pre crisis days.. one of note was a story that revealed Earth had not been baby Kal-El's first stop. He actually landed on another planet and grew to manhood and then had his aging reversed back to infancy again to be sent out into space a second time. That wasn't the plot. The plot was about Kal-El's aura causing the people of that world to achieve incredible technological advances at an accelerated rate. This was a forgotten tale as it was so highly implausable .. but interesting just the same. It didn't, however, have a lot of emotional depth to it. Kal-El actually married and had a family.

Problem is, again, the high implausability of some of those stories. I really didn't mind the books just prior to the Crisis but they were just saddled with a lot of stuff that didn't work. All Byrne and Wolfman really did was shave a lot of that stuff off so it could be reintroduced in a more believable way.

Byrne's Krypton was both a utopia and a dystopia. It had epic scale. The pre-crisis Krypton was pretty much a happy story from start to finish. Problem there was why wouldn't the council listen to Jor-El and take him seriously? The Krypton of Pre Crisis showed that the Kryptonians were intelligent. They should have easily accepted his findings and set about saving it's people. It just didn't make sense.

In Byrne's take, the society had become quite pompous and refused to believe anything the emotional young Jor-El brought before them. He'd already been labeled a rebel and was disregarded even before he presented them with that research. It made complete sense that they would ignore him and that he would take covert measures to ensure the safety of his child.

But how would a society like that handle children? They would think of natural birth as messy and that technology could handle it better. Therefore, the birthing matrices. Which, coincidentally, was not Byrne's design but DC's. He wanted to have a pregnant Lara make the journey and give birth on our planet. DC said no. John had to find another solution because you can't just strap a baby into a space ship and expect it to survive that long voyage. Had he been in the womb, Lara would have been able to provide the care needed to keep it alive. Instead, John designed a world where babies are kept in birthing matrices. It made sense. Not only to the survival of the child on it's space voyage but as to how that society would handle it ... and, finally, what that society would be like. Completely organic and not a costumed version of our own culture. It was different. It was like classic science fiction.

Quote:
And the main point of how biased and mind-bendingly ridculous your statement was is that what you said about "The tragedy of krypton"...can be pretty much said...about...every version of krypton...you pretentiously claim to be about depth, but you clearly cant see further than what's right in front of you if all you got from silver age krypton was "Durrrr, 1950's Sci fi"...when psycologists have written books based on research of silver age comics....

Maybe you should take the time to explain to me just as I have in the previous paragraph just what I missed about Silver age Krypton. I'd very much look forward to reading that.


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Old 09-15-2008, 05:40 PM   #112
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To be serious, the only pre-crisis stories that i like are the old ones written by Siegel and Schuster, the Fleischer Cartoons and those written by Elliot S Maggin, Alan Moore and now Grant Morrison with All Star Superman. The number 6 is one of the best comics i've read in years and i'm not particularly found of Jonathan Kent dying as a reason for him to become Superman. But it was done so well that I loved it.

I think pre-crisis had a lot of great stories and potential, but post-crisis have better stories as a whole and it was created to erase the stupid moments from pre-crisis, things that would've killed the comics as a whole.

Sure that It has dumb things like Electric Superman also but as a whole, i like it more.

But the movie Krypton could be a mix of both eras, although i would love to see Byrne's because it has much more depth, history, it is science plausible and it is very different from the versions Krypton's we've seen on the big screen.

Add Braniac to that and it would be amazing to see.

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Old 09-16-2008, 08:20 PM   #113
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Lara and Jor-El kissing when Krypton explodes is so much better than a lame conversaton between them.
So then why not just have both, in any movie adaption?

I too would like to know what's so great about Pre-Crisis Krypton's story. I never bought that the society as it was presented would refuse to listen to Jor-El. Actually, I never bought that about Post Crisis Krypton either, for the most part.

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Old 09-16-2008, 08:28 PM   #114
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It always struck me as puzzling, too. I liked what STAS did though, by including Braniac into the equation. It was a much better way of handling Jor-El's rejection.

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Old 09-16-2008, 09:50 PM   #115
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The new Krypton should be a land of marshmallowy fluff..........

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Old 09-17-2008, 05:51 AM   #116
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So then why not just have both, in any movie adaption?

I too would like to know what's so great about Pre-Crisis Krypton's story. I never bought that the society as it was presented would refuse to listen to Jor-El. Actually, I never bought that about Post Crisis Krypton either, for the most part.

On Post Crisis Krypton, Jor-El is already thought of as a rebel and they tend to discount him just on principle. They, in short, think he's Chicken Little crying 'the sky is falling'.

Now, did he make other predicitions that didn't come true? I don't know. In short, however, he's basically thought of as very bright but somewhat taken with his own theories. Theories the council think are based only on supposition and they don't want him upseting the peace and order of their society with his ravings.

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Old 09-17-2008, 09:34 PM   #117
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That's what I always wanted to do. Was Jor-El really some kind of flake? I've just never seen how that could be.

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Old 09-17-2008, 10:12 PM   #118
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Perhaps it's Jor-El's theories versus the theories of other notable scientists on Krypton?

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Old 09-17-2008, 10:38 PM   #119
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That's what I always wanted to do. Was Jor-El really some kind of flake? I've just never seen how that could be.
No, not at all - but I think the council was composed of Elders and saw him as impetuous youth with overblown ideas.

Another reason why Byrne's Krypton works. The society is run by people who disdain thinking outside the box. The fact that there is a Jor-el shows that the culture of Krypton isn't dead but sleeping. Unfortunately time is ran out for them.

And another reason why Jor-el shouldn't be geriatric. It just doesn't work if he looks like a wise old man.

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Old 09-17-2008, 10:46 PM   #120
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Elders, eh? How does one get to be a wise old man when one isn't wise?

Puzzling.

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Old 09-17-2008, 10:57 PM   #121
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Well they made Jor-el a somewhat apprentice to Non if I'm not mistaken. The council was not impressed with their findings and lobotimized Non for it. Adding in the brainiac element like STAS would make it full proof why the council would not believe them.

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Old 09-17-2008, 11:01 PM   #122
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Elders, eh? How does one get to be a wise old man when one isn't wise?

Puzzling.


LOL


I heard they all slept their way to the top.

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Old 09-17-2008, 11:04 PM   #123
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Well they made Jor-el a somewhat apprentice to Non if I'm not mistaken. The council was not impressed with their findings and lobotimized Non for it. Adding in the brainiac element like STAS would make it full proof why the council would not believe them.

That's from Donner's run on Superman in the comix and I think it's a relatively interesting concept. I wouldn't mind if it snuck it's way into the movie.

This, again, is why I'm saying the reboot SHOULD have a healthy amount in the beginning devoted to Krypton.. or as I call it 'Jor-El's Story'.

It could be an excellent movie on it's own if done right.

Just as we got to see Bruce Wayne evolve into The Batman, we could see the heroism in Clark's bloodline.

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Old 09-17-2008, 11:11 PM   #124
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That's from Donner's run on Superman in the comix and I think it's a relatively interesting concept. I wouldn't mind if it snuck it's way into the movie.

This, again, is why I'm saying the reboot SHOULD have a healthy amount in the beginning devoted to Krypton.. or as I call it 'Jor-El's Story'.

It could be an excellent movie on it's own if done right.

Just as we got to see Bruce Wayne evolve into The Batman, we could see the heroism in Clark's bloodline.
you know, I suggested something like this a LONG time ago. a spin-off of the *ahem* potential franchise of the SR series, with prequel of a JOR-el as the main character, with the movie ending with kal-el leaving the planet. it would be a sad/happy ending where its sad that everyone will die and parents are separated from their child, but happy (the audience knows) in the sense that the son survives and grows up to be the greatest hero of earth.

It would be a future world like minority report (this came out at the time), with him on the run, and we have the whole council, krypton poice, the whole nine yards.

so i'm totally with you on that.

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Old 09-17-2008, 11:27 PM   #125
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Default Re: What should Krypton look like?

I would like to see that stuff to, but this movie doesnt have the luxury of the first half hour on krypton. Let's face it, fans would like that but I doubt regular people will. Although if their is a sequel with zod it would be a great way to see what happen to jor-el specifically and thats why I still believe Zod should be used in this trilogy.

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