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View Poll Results: Where should the new Superman movie begin?
Krypton 18 32.14%
Smallville 8 14.29%
Metropolis 30 53.57%
Voters: 56. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 08-23-2008, 07:33 AM   #51
darkseid26
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IGN Is Fixing The Superman Film Franchise

http://comics.ign.com/articles/902/902292p1.html

Fixing The Superman Film Franchise

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A Worthy Set of Villains

This one is a no-brainer. Superman needs someone or something that provides a worthy challenge. We're tired of seeing him rescue planes or stave off natural disasters. We want an actual villain that can match Superman on a physical level. The only time the movies ever got this right was Superman II, where he traded blows with the Phantom Zone criminals. No, the fight with Nuclear Man in Superman IV does not count as "getting it right."

Trading blows is the operative phrase here. If Superman threw a single punch in Returns, we must have slept through it. We want to see him punch Brainiac, Metallo, or Parasite. Heck, a knock-down, drag-out brawl with Doomsday could be pure cinematic glee if handled properly.

The Matrix Revolutions was a pretty lousy movie, but the climactic battle between Agent Smith and Neo gave us a glimpse of how cool a Superman battle could look with modern CG technology. We want to see the new movie realize this potential.
Quote:
An Actor Who Can Embody Superman and Clark Kent

Superman is a touch character to cast. He has a larger-than-life quality that befits the world's greatest hero. He's also built like a brick house. Clark Kent, on the other hand, is withdrawn, meek, and a little mousy. The two are vastly different characters, and the movie requires that one actor fill both roles perfectly. Christopher Reeve was a master at this, and there's a reason most people still think of him as Superman after all this time.

The last Superman, Brandon Routh, didn't meet with the same level of success. He was a great Clark, but his Superman came across as a gangly, tight-wearing wuss. The right actor has to be out there somewhere. Movies like 300 have proved that physical size can be convincingly faked through CG, so the important factor is really the quality of acting. WB can have all the other pieces of the puzzle, but without an actor that fill the tights as aptly as Reeve, there's no point in going forward with another movie.
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A Willingness to Diverge From Past Projects

Superman Returns had numerous flaws. One of the most glaring was the fact that it felt annoyingly similar to the older movies in the franchise. The general plot, with Lex Luthor scheming to create worldwide disasters and make billions in the real estate market, was practically lifted straight from the original. A successful movie needs to be willing to diverge from what came before and venture into unfamiliar territory.

Part of this goes back to the idea of villains. We can't stomach another Superman movie with Luthor as the one and only antagonist. Nor can we abide another Superman III, where the main villain was a blatant Luthor clone. We want new villains and new struggles for Superman to overcome.

We also wouldn't necessarily mind if the movie broke away from standard continuity and tried something completely different. Comics like Secret Identity and It's a Bird, as well as novels like It's Superman! take the concept of Superman and put an interesting new spin on it. It's a Bird in particular can't even be considered a superhero story. There's no reason WB can't do something new and different for once.
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A Healthy Respect For What Came Before

In turn, we don't want to see WB do different just for the sake of being different. Particularly in the case of the first two movies, there were a lot of things done right. Take the general aesthetic of Krypton, for instance. Richard Donner and his designers crafted a memorable take on this alien world and the Fortress of Solitude that, frankly, put the comics to shame. It was no coincidence that the comics took several cues from this aesthetic when Returns came out. Even two years later, the comic version of the Fortress of Solitude retains that iconic crystalline appearance.

In the pages of Action Comics, Superman and Lois Lane now bear a strong resemblance to Christopher Reeve and Margot Kidder, respectively. These two actors defined the roles, and we see no reason why their replacements shouldn't evoke the same classical sensibilities. The movies did too much too well for a new cast and crew to simply ignore them.
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Maturity Without Being "Dark"

It's understandable that DC wants to try and force lightning to strike twice by replicating the success of Dark Knight. One of the main points in their new strategy is that they want to follow Christopher Nolan's approach. This means a strongly character-driven focus with dark, mature undertones.

Now, we're all for maturity when it comes to comic adaptations. Far too many projects in the past have collapsed under the weight of camp and goofy excess. But WB should be very careful about making a Superman film too dark. Superman is not Batman. That's essentially what comics like Superman/Batman have been trying to hammer home for decades. What works for a Batman film is not necessarily going to work for a Superman film as well.

We want to see a movie where Superman inspires people. That's what he does. He makes Metropolis, and the entire world, a better place through his actions. The movie shouldn't be drenched in dark palettes and bathed in shadow. Supes shouldn't be swearing vengeance at the graves of Ma and Pa Kent. Jimmy Olsen shouldn't run around the streets shooting people (unless he's shooting pictures, of course). The sillier trappings of the older movies definitely need to go, but the producers need to firmly hold onto the concept of Superman as a defender of Truth, Justice, and the American Way.
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No More Super Kid!

The one area Returns actually attempted to diverge from the comics was by introducing the child of Superman and Lois Lane. Naturally, the kid has super powers that slowly revealed themselves through the course of the film. We feel Super Kid was a huge mistake, and one that should be swept under the rug in any future projects.

There's a reason Superman has never had a real child in the comics, at least not in a continuity-driven story. It complicates the character and takes him away from his core appeal. Readers complain that simply having Superman married to Lois makes him too old and boring. What would a kid do?

There's simply no reason to even touch on the idea of Super Kid in a rebooted franchise. Let Superman be Superman. Let him pine for Lois. Don't let him devolve into a creepy stalker dad all over again. Some viewers will doubtless be disappointed that a direct sequel to Returns is out of the question now. They'll never know what became of this super-powered tyke. Good riddance, we say.

And, if for some reason WB changes gears again and strives for a sequel, we're all for Rich's suggestion – have Doomsday eat the kid. Done and done. [Hell yea! - Rich]
Quote:
No Rehashing the Origin

As much as we love seeing new superheroes brought to the big screen, we're starting to grow tired of the standard origin tale. We loved Iron Man, but the movie suffered from a certain level of predictability. When you have 2 hours to establish a new franchise and it numerous characters, there are only so many directions you can take the story. Superman shouldn't have this problem. The original movie already did a suitable job of chronicling his journey to Earth and early life on the Kent farm. We don't mind if the new movie takes a few minutes to touch on this story, but we'd hate to see a significant chunk of the film wasted on another origin rehash.

Put simply, everyone already knows his origin. Supes is one of the most recognizable pop culture characters in existence. We want less time spent rehashing and more time focusing on the present. We'd say Incredible Hulk represents a good solution to this problem. Though it wasn't a direct sequel to 2003's Hulk, it assumed audiences weren't terribly interested in seeing Bruce Banner before his accident. Hulk's origin was confined to the opening credits, allowing the movie to venture into new territory for the remaining 90 minutes. If we have to sit through another 30-45 minutes of Krypton exploding and young Clark moping, we might just walk out of the theater.
Quote:
A More Believable, Complex Luthor

With the next movie rebooting the franchise, we can only assume it'll take place during Superman's early days in Metropolis. Knowing that, there's absolutely no way Lex Luthor won't be a part of the story. He's too integral to this era of Superman's career not to be. We'd be happy to have Luthor make another appearance. He stands tall as Superman's ultimate villain for a very good reason.

That said, the script absolutely needs to portray Luthor in a more complex fashion than it did in Returns. Kevin Spacey made the most of what he was given, but that version of Luthor was annoyingly one-note. He was evil, and he was proud it. That's not Lex Luthor.

The real Luthor thinks of himself as the ultimate hero. He's a world-renowned inventor and businessman. He basks in his status as Metropolis' favorite son, at least until Superman arrives to steal his spotlight. Luthor clashes with Superman because he firmly believes the alien hero is a detriment to humanity. Sure, Luthor is deluding himself when he claims he could save the world if only Superman didn't constantly get in the way, but that's the whole point. Luthor is a complex villain, and he needs to be portrayed as such.
Quote:
More Showcases of Superman's Power

This hearkens back to the idea of giving Superman more villains to punch, but in a more general sense. Whether he's clobbering bad guys or just throwing tanks around, we want to see Supes cut loose and unleash his strength on something. Returns was mind-numbingly boring at times, with far too few scenes like the plane rescue to liven things up. Just as Incredible Hulk turned up the smash factor for its respective hero, so should the next Superman movie.

In addition, we'd like to see Superman put his other powers to use. Not in ridiculous ways, like the magical cellophane S-shield or by spinning the world backwards. We want to see him melt robots with his heat vision, or freeze villains in their tracks with his icy breath. With current special effects technology, the producers can really push the limits of what Superman can do on screen.
Quote:
Keep John Williams, Please

Superheroes are heroic. They need booming, heroic themes to communicate that idea. Superman has quite possibly the greatest musical theme of any superhero. Ever. We still get goosebumps anytime we hear John William's Superman March. Batman Begins took a bit of flack for ditching Danny Elfman's iconic Batman music. In that instance we understand the desire to move away from the older films and the idea of heroic themes in general. But in the case of Superman, we see absolutely no reason to fix what certainly isn't broken.

However, the producers need to go one step further. Returns wisely kept the Williams theme, but a different composer was responsible for the general score. Frankly, the rest of the score didn't measure up. Williams has a real genius for scoring blockbuster movies like Superman. We want to see him come back in a full capacity with the London Symphony Orchestra in tow. At the very least, the new movie needs someone of equivalent talent. With Superman, his actions speak louder than his words. And his music speaks louder than his actions.


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Old 08-23-2008, 07:39 AM   #52
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Default Re: IGN's Ten Requirements for the Superman Film We've always wanted

I agree with their points except rehashing an origin and using Williams' score. They need a new origin that accurate yet distinct from Donner's and they definitely need a new score to escape from Donner even further.

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Old 08-23-2008, 07:42 AM   #53
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Default Re: IGN's Ten Requirements for the Superman Film We've always wanted

Brandon Routh wasn't a problem. He was actually a potentially a very good Superman.

Unfortunately, Singer choose to make Superman some kind of new age guy who was sensitive.

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Old 08-23-2008, 08:00 AM   #54
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Default Re: IGN's Ten Requirements for the Superman Film We've always wanted

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Old 08-23-2008, 08:01 AM   #55
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Default Re: IGN's Ten Requirements for the Superman Film We've always wanted

Thats really interesting, i agree with alot that they said just not the last one about the John Williams Score, if it is a Re-boot then do not have that music, that music symbolises the Donner Franchise if they want to start over again then they need a new theme.

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Old 08-23-2008, 08:25 AM   #56
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Default Re: IGN's Ten Requirements for the Superman Film We've always wanted

Alright I'll bite: how is Donner's origin story different from the comic book (which I admit I don't read a lot of)?

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Old 08-23-2008, 08:38 AM   #57
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Default Re: IGN's Ten Requirements for the Superman Film We've always wanted

I agree with everything except about using the original theme.
By all means use Williams, but let him come up with something new.

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Old 08-23-2008, 08:46 AM   #58
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Default Re: IGN's Ten Requirements for the Superman Film We've always wanted

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Thats really interesting, i agree with alot that they said just not the last one about the John Williams Score, if it is a Re-boot then do not have that music, that music symbolises the Donner Franchise if they want to start over again then they need a new theme.
Agreed. To successfully reboot itself, this new franchise clearly needs to differentiate itself from what came before it. Which means no Williams theme. Personally, I love it. Just as I still love Danny Elfman's Batman march for Batman 1989. But it was right for Batman Begins to have it's very own score. And the same should hold true with this Superman film as well.

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Old 08-23-2008, 09:26 AM   #59
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Default Re: IGN's Ten Requirements for the Superman Film We've always wanted

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Alright I'll bite: how is Donner's origin story different from the comic book (which I admit I don't read a lot of)?
Most significantly, Jor-El training Clark via the hologram and giving him the idea to become Superman.

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Old 08-23-2008, 09:39 AM   #60
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Default Re: IGN Is Fixing The Superman Film Franchise

love the list, agree 100%

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Old 08-23-2008, 10:05 AM   #61
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Default Re: IGN's Ten Requirements for the Superman Film We've always wanted

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Brandon Routh wasn't a problem. He was actually a potentially a very good Superman.

Unfortunately, Singer choose to make Superman some kind of new age guy who was sensitive.
You mean a metro-sexual?

It's not queer eye for the straight guy it's a super hero movie

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Old 08-23-2008, 10:09 AM   #62
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^ That doesn't even make sense.

Thanks for stating the obvious IGN... two years later.

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Old 08-23-2008, 10:29 AM   #63
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Default Re: IGN Is Fixing The Superman Film Franchise

I agree especially with the Luthor comment. I really couldn't care less about a real estate mogul wannabe Lex surrounded by slapstick villains. I want the Lex who sees himself as the pinnacle of human achivement. Who views superman as an arrogant alien not to be trusted and a threat to humanity.

If they could get an actor to play Luthor like the one from Lex Luthor: Man of Steel by Brian Azzarello then he woul be a much more intresting and threatening villain than the previous movie versions.

The likes of McKellans Magneto and Ledgers Joker worked because they had some menace to them an actual ideals which brought them into conflict with the heroes, not just a lame scheme to make money like a second rate bond villian.

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Old 08-23-2008, 11:18 AM   #64
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Default Re: IGN Is Fixing The Superman Film Franchise

I didn't think Magneto had any real menance in the X-films.

Anywho, I wouldn't mind if the reboot was a total orgin story or a non orgin story, as long as it's a good story it's all good with me.

Keeping the Willaims music would be stupid. Elfman's Batman music is more catchy than Zimmer/Newton Howard but Nolan didn't keep in for his Batman movies. I don't see any good reason to keep the Willaims theme and am disappointed that alot of people say that they want a complete reboot but what to keep that theme. As soon as you hear that music, it's still going to be connected to Donner's Superman so I say throw it the f**k away.

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Old 08-23-2008, 11:24 AM   #65
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Default Re: IGN Is Fixing The Superman Film Franchise

I'm not reading all that because it's probably the same stuff we all know is necessary. Menacing Supervillain, no ties to previous movies, lighter tone, etc, etc.

So, I suppose the reboot will still use Luthor and Brainiac as villains?

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Old 08-23-2008, 11:25 AM   #66
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I didn't think Magneto had any real menance in the X-films.

Anywho, I wouldn't mind if the reboot was a total orgin story or a non orgin story, as long as it's a good story it's all good with me.

Keeping the Willaims music would be stupid. Elfman's Batman music is more catchy than Zimmer/Newton Howard but Nolan didn't keep in for his Batman movies. I don't see any good reason to keep the Willaims theme and am disappointed that alot of people say that they want a complete reboot but what to keep that theme. As soon as you hear that music, it's still going to be connected to Donner's Superman so I say throw it the f**k away.
Nolan got an enormous amount of heat for not using Elfman's music. Everyone universally agreed that the score was one of the best things about Burton's Batman. I remember videos of people putting the teaser and trailer for BB to Elfman's score. People incessantly complaining about it.

But he definitely made the right decision b/c that score was synonymous with Burton's Batman. He was trying to redefine the character distinct from Burton's and changing the music went a long way with that. The same thing needs to happen with Superman. As good as the Williams score is they must replace it if they want to redefine the character away from the Donner films.

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Old 08-23-2008, 11:41 AM   #67
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I agree with everything except about using the original theme.
By all means use Williams, but let him come up with something new.
Maybe some sort of combo of John Williams and the Shirley Walker Animated Series music. Cuz that stuff rocked.

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Old 08-23-2008, 11:47 AM   #68
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Maybe some sort of combo of John Williams and the Shirley Walker Animated Series music. Cuz that stuff rocked.
That would work. They need williams on it for sure. Either him or Howard shore.

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Old 08-23-2008, 11:56 AM   #69
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Call me a traitor to the supposed "loyal" fandom if you must, but I actually liked "Returns" for the most part. My biggest complaints were Luthor being rehashed with the tired "land grab" deal, and Lois & Superman having a kid out of wedlock (how are people supposed to be inspired by a character who messes up as often as we do?). I did like the kid's story, though, especially when he pushed the piano across the room.

on a secondarty note, I agree it needed more action, but not by a lot. This isn't "Terminator", after all. I'd like to see either Brainiac or Darkseid, and possibly introduce the bottled city of Kandor. James Marsters did such an excellent job as "Brainiac" on Smallville, and I'd love to see a similar approach, even if they choose a different actor.

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Old 08-23-2008, 12:02 PM   #70
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Default Re: IGN Is Fixing The Superman Film Franchise

How are you a traitor for liking Returns?

I have no problem with anybody liking Returns. If anybody gives you a hard time I will defend you. I.E insult you and not intelligently debate you.

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Old 08-23-2008, 12:05 PM   #71
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Default Re: IGN Is Fixing The Superman Film Franchise

that list is pretty much spot on, except for a few areas.

however, it's also pretty much common sense. That's why it just continues to boggle my mind as to how Singer dropped the ball on sooooo many levels........or as to how WB actually APPROVED Singer's approach...........but then again, it's WB......so....

now, as for the origin and theme music....I do think you need to "ditch the old" and revamp those elements too.

For example, instead of the barren ice crystal look for Krypton that Donner did, there's no reason why you can't make Krypton a vibrant alien world with advanced technology ( kind of like in the Animated Series ).

Also, you don't have to introduce the origin in a linear fashion. You could reveal it in flashbacks, or save quite a bit of it for the sequels. I mean, you could literally make Superman's origin a mystery to both the audience and to Superman himself. So, as Supes discovers his past/heritage throughout the film(s), we'd be discovering it too....

and, for the theme music, as much as I hate to say it......it's time to try something different. I know how iconic the Williams theme is; in fact, to celebrate the news of a reboot yesterday, I popped in the Williams theme to listen to it.

but, it's time to try something new. Who knows, maybe we'll get a new theme that's just as iconic for a new Superman franchise......

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Old 08-23-2008, 12:09 PM   #72
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I also think it's time to move past the John Williams score. And I think Lex should definitely be in a Superman movie but lets leave him out of the first one. Have him come in 2 or 3.

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Old 08-23-2008, 12:11 PM   #73
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oh, and no one should be made to feel like a "traitor" for liking SR ( just as no one should be made to feel like an "idiot" for NOT LIKING SR ).

As much as I hate SR, I accept the fact that there are ppl who actually like it! ( I know...acceptance and tolerance on message boards are such novel ideas....lol ). So, Moviefan, if anyone gives you flack for liking SR, I'll be there with I SEE SPIDEY to defend you.......

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Old 08-23-2008, 12:16 PM   #74
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Default Re: IGN Is Fixing The Superman Film Franchise

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that list is pretty much spot on, except for a few areas.

however, it's also pretty much common sense. That's why it just continues to boggle my mind as to how Singer dropped the ball on sooooo many levels........or as to how WB actually APPROVED Singer's approach...........but then again, it's WB......so....

now, as for the origin and theme music....I do think you need to "ditch the old" and revamp those elements too.

For example, instead of the barren ice crystal look for Krypton that Donner did, there's no reason why you can't make Krypton a vibrant alien world with advanced technology ( kind of like in the Animated Series ).
I've been asking for a new krypton since I was 10. I'm tired of seeing a frozen wasteland ruled by arrogant white dudes wearing night gowns...can we see some black, Asian, or Latin kryptonians, please?

ALSO, I'd love to see a lush world diverse world not so different from our own with advanced technology just like the one in the animated series. In addition to this updated Krypton I'd LOVE to see an updated Jor-El similar to the one in the comics...one who resembles his son! No more Jor-El's played by old dudes who look like Santa Claus!

Make Jor-El look like Superman! Mid-30's, good looking, dark hair, etc. He should be the "Superman" of Krypton. Not some white haired dude who walks around talking like he's bored. "My friends you know me to be neither rash nor impulsive..."

Jor-El should have gusto and charisma...so you can see where his son gets it.

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Old 08-23-2008, 12:24 PM   #75
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I've been asking for a new krypton since I was 10. I'm tired of seeing a frozen wasteland ruled by arrogant white dudes wearing night gowns...can we see some black, Asian, or Latin kryptonians, please?

ALSO, I'd love to see a lush world diverse world not so different from our own with advanced technology just like the one in the animated series. In addition to this updated Krypton I'd LOVE to see an updated Jor-El similar to the one in the comics...one who resembles his son! No more Jor-El's played by old dudes who look like Santa Claus!

Make Jor-El look like Superman! Mid-30's, good looking, dark hair, etc. He should be the "Superman" of Krypton. Not some white haired dude who walks around talking like he's bored. "My friends you know me to be neither rash nor impulsive..."

Jor-El should have gusto and charisma...so you can see where his son gets it.

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