Please, no "Superman Begins"

[myway]

This whole reboot thing is getting way out of hand. SR had its problems, but the last thing we need imo is another origin story; and a "dark" one at that. BB was good and necessary because we never really saw Batman's origins on the big screen. Superman's origins make up the first 40 min of S:TM so we'd really just be getting a remake with a full on reboot. At this point in the Superman franchise, his character is well established, as is Lois, Lex etc; he's primed for a showdown with a Supervillain. Don't supporters of a reboot realize that in order for the movie to be anything but a string of Superman money shots, a reboot is going to have to spend siginficant time reintroducing everything? Now that everybody's ga-ga over TDK, they think we need to give Superman a "Begins" movie of his own so that he can fight a supervillain; totally unnecessary. Of course the Mods will think that this has nothing to do with the reboot and will move it to a board which noone reads unless I spell everything out, so let me say this: is there anyway to salvage the backstory of previous Superman movies while appeasing people who were unhappy with SR?

[NeoRanger]

I've never seen Superman's origin. I wasn't alive in 1978.

[Crook]

Originally Posted by NeoRanger

I've never seen Superman's origin. I wasn't alive in 1978.

Yep. People need to get out of this fanboy mindset. YOU may know Superman's origin top-to-bottom perfectly. But there are plenty of people that at best, only have a vague sense of his actual genesis.

It's been a long while since mainstream has been exposed to such a story (and no, I don't count niche audiences like Smallville and STAS). A modern retelling, from the beginning is absolutely necessary to re-establish these characters for a new era.

[Brian Braddock]

Originally Posted by NeoRanger

I've never seen Superman's origin. I wasn't alive in 1978.

So people born in 1978 have a genetic disorder that stops them from purchasing or renting a DVD?

How is it possible, as a Superman fan, not to have seen Superman: the movie?

[NeoRanger]

^^ You kind of missed my point. I've seen the movie, I've seen the Adventures of Superman, I've seen L&C, Smallville, TAS and read a buttload of comic books from all three origin eras, plus stand-alones.

What I've never done is walk into a theater and watch a Superman film I can call my own. Watching Returns was like going to my dad's high school reunion in his place. What do I have to say with these old guys?

[kalelkilla]

I think they need to do the "Begins" treatment to be honest...they need to ground some things in reality as best they can. The comics arc of Birthright by Mark Millar and Superman for All Seasons by Jeph Loeb are great Origin stories that don't rehash what is established in '78...they just expand on it...They have to make Superman more relatable, and the best way to do that is to is to take the audience places that no one really knows about and show how Superman came about...showing us how human he really is and the things he emotionally struggles with...

[Brian Braddock]

Ah, now I've got what you mean, NR.

Although, I have to say, I didnt miss your point as you didnt make it in the 1st place. I took you on what you stated.

You only said that you'd never seen Superman's origin. You made no indication about that being confined to a theatrical format.

[dark_b]

just place superman in a real world. no flying pigs and no flying cars. a normal working city of tomorrow. and a flying man.

[FilmNerdJamie]

The planet Krypton explodes, but before so Jor-El (a kind and wise scientist) and his wife place their infant son in a spaceship where it escapes and crash lands on Earth. There the child is discovered by Jonathon Kent (a kind and wise farmer) and his wife, an older childless couple, who take the baby and raise him as their own where they bestoy upon him morals and values. Eventually, he grows up to discover his true heritage as Earth's protector and becomes Superman.

^That is the basics of Superman's origin. There's no need of re-treading that territory for 30-60 minutes (again) because it's common knowledge to us nerds and regular folks.

If anything, Superman (along with James Bond) is the only film franchise where the filmmakers could easily make each installment stand alone.

[matrix_ghost]

I kinda agree that the origin has been done. We all know Clark's/Superman origin.
At the same time i do feel that Donner's movie , while good as an origin movie , is very dated. Especially all the parts with Krypton just don't age well. Maybe updating certain parts with today's technology would be better ?

Or expand the origin in stuff we haven't seen.

[OwlBoy]

Originally Posted by matrix_ghost

Or expand the origin in stuff we haven't seen.

What like having Starman coming from the future to tell Jor-El where Earth is?

Although I don't recall ever seeing Jor-El address the Science Council in live-action.

[Zephyr Alexian]

A reboot doesn't necessarily mean an origin tale. Studios say that to save face and attempt to verbally convince the public of the products' "newness" or improvement. It doesn't matter if it's the same thing told in an updated manner. Reboot means renew.

[dark_b]

people will one day just need to stop comparing it to batman begins. batma n had never an origin story. nto the movie. not the animated series. all flashback. and not in a tv series. superman had all of that. superman the movie. cartoons,tv series and again a new tv series that is devoted to hes origin.
again in ooo way the same. peopel around the world knwo how it all started.
of course a reboot needs a quick origin. but nto like batman begins IMO.

[Crook]

Originally Posted by FilmNerdJamie

The planet Krypton explodes, but before so Jor-El (a kind and wise scientist) and his wife place their infant son in a spaceship where it escapes and crash lands on Earth. There the child is discovered by Jonathon Kent (a kind and wise farmer) and his wife, an older childless couple, who take the baby and raise him as their own where they bestoy upon him morals and values. Eventually, he grows up to discover his true heritage as Earth's protector and becomes Superman.

^That is the basics of Superman's origin. There's no need of re-treading that territory for 30-60 minutes (again) because it's common knowledge to us nerds and regular folks.

So? It's exactly what you said it is. Basic. You'll settle for basic? Again, the modern cinematic audience doesn't have their own Superman franchise to work with. You need a jumpoff point to establish the universe.

It would make little sense to jump in the middle of things, and assume everyone is on the same wavelength in terms of knowledge on the story and characters.

[I SEE SPIDEY]

This thread seems tad useless to me.

People also went ga-ga over Spider-Man and Iron Man. I think that the only people who hate orgin stories are comicbook nerds. I mean, they could start a Captain America movie when he's already Captain America but I'd perfer an orgin story.

I love orgin stories and believe that Superman needs to be re-orgined.

[FilmNerdJamie]

Originally Posted by Crook

So? It's exactly what you said it is. Basic. You'll settle for basic? Again, the modern cinematic audience doesn't have their own Superman franchise to work with. You need a jumpoff point to establish the universe.

It would make little sense to jump in the middle of things, and assume everyone is on the same wavelength in terms of knowledge on the story and characters.

Actually it would make little sense to retread on territory people already know like the "basics" of Superman's origin story.

[Crook]

Originally Posted by FilmNerdJamie

Actually it would make little sense to retread on territory people already know like the "basics" of Superman's origin story.

You can't retread based on basics. How is that even possible? You break down the narrative of every film, cartoon, and book ever created, into "simple basics", and you could probably get it down to like 20 different stories, tops. The key is the details to how those basics are told. From there, several branches cover new ground.

Was TDK a retread because it went over the Batman/Joker rivalry and genesis of their relationship....again? No, not even close. Because they took the basics, laid the groundwork to develop a NEW interpretation, and produced something that was fresh. Same principles apply for a Superman reboot. I don't get this notion that an origin story is somehow gonna be exactly the same as previous incarnations. That lacks imagination.

[FilmNerdJamie]

It actually lacks imagination to assume there has to be a retread of the origin instead of just doing a stand-alone Superman film where he fights a villain like Brainiac or the Parasite. Yet again...

[I SEE SPIDEY]

I think it's ridiculous to believe that we shouldn't ever see a Superman re-orgin. The first movie came out in 78, it's time to re-orgin this b**ch.

[Showtime]

I actually would prefer it if they just did a stand alone type film and not an origin story. If they do however go the origin route, which isn't clear at this point, then I wouldn't mind it.

[Crook]

Originally Posted by FilmNerdJamie

It actually lacks imagination to assume there has to be a retread of the origin instead of just doing a stand-alone Superman film where he fights a villain like Brainiac or the Parasite. Yet again...

Are you actually going to address any points I've made, or at least back up your statements? You keep rolling your eyes all you want, but you can't even civilly discuss a topic without being condescending.

It's like you wanna push the stereotype of a girl that covers her ears and goes "LALALALALALA" during an argument.

[Sam]

I think its going to be really funny when WB releases a movie with Superman origin. While i am a HUGE fan of 1978, i totally support retelling the origin.

This argument that everyone knows Superman origin is BS. Only thing that everyone knows is that he was sent from his home planet to Earth to be saved and raised by an old couple. THATS IT.

Superman origin is MUCH more than that. When ppl realise this, things will be much easier.

If u think about it, Batman, much more than Superman, didnt need an origin story. And everyone knows Batman origin either (parentes murdered and bruce became Batman to revenge them). But Batman Begins had so much more than that. Thats what Superman needs.

[FilmNerdJamie]

Originally Posted by Crook

Are you actually going to address any points I've made, or at least back up your statements? You keep rolling your eyes all you want, but you can't even civilly discuss a topic without being condescending.

It's like you wanna push the stereotype of a girl that covers her ears and goes "LALALALALALA" during an argument.

You do realize that Superman Returns got alot of crap for being "a retread of Donner's film"

What would exactly would you call flat-out rebooting the series and re-doing the origin all over again? You'd get the exact same complaint from people. Yes, even when you tweak it around here and there (i.e. like having Clark & Lex being class-mates or having Ma & Pa Kent still alive and active in Superman's adult life!)

It's still the same basic origin story.

CHUDs Devin Faraci said it perfectly - "There are two origin stories that everyone knows: Jesus Christ and Superman!"

[Crook]

Originally Posted by FilmNerdJamie

You do realize that Superman Returns got alot of crap for being "a retread of Donner's film"

Because it was. Point by point that's exactly what Singer's film is. No one is denying this.

What would exactly would you call flat-out rebooting the series and re-doing the origin all over again? You'd get the exact same complaint from people. Yes, even when you tweak it around here and there (i.e. like having Clark & Lex being class-mates or having Ma & Pa Kent still alive and active in Superman's adult life!)

So when Birthright came out this was the case? STAS? Smallville? L&C? No, I think not. They all garnered their own fanbase and there was next to zero backlash because of covering old territory.

It's still the same basic origin story.

And as I've noted, the "basics" cover so very little of the overall story presentation. Things only become a retread if you don't make it your own and copy someone else's work. The very fact that Superman's origin HAS been done so many times, and yet many are unique in their own way, should show that these "basics" matter little in the big picture.

CHUDs Devin Faraci said it perfectly - "There are two origin stories that everyone knows: Jesus Christ and Superman!"

And yet, there are hordes of films starring Jesus, with the same exact story. He's an even worse offender when it comes to retelling narratives.

[FilmNerdJamie]

Originally Posted by Crook

So when Birthright came out this was the case? STAS? Smallville? L&C? No, I think not. They all garnered their own fanbase and there was next to zero backlash because of covering old territory.

And as I've noted, the "basics" cover so very little of the overall story presentation. Things only become a retread if you don't make it your own and copy someone else's work. The very fact that Superman's origin HAS been done so many times, and yet many are unique in their own way, should show that these "basics" matter little in the big picture.

Yeah comics and TV series (where the origins are changed often) are in the exact same ball-game as films. Great example!

Originally Posted by Crook

And yet, there are hordes of films starring Jesus, with the same exact story. He's an even worse offender when it comes to retelling narratives.

Oh yeah...The Passion had to absolutely retell the origin of Jesus so people could follow it.