Please, no "Superman Begins"

[NotFadeAway]

Just calling the film "Superman" is perfection. It's simple, to the point, and has never been done. There has always been something else in the title.

I can see the trailer now......

"Faster than a speeding bullet"
"More powerful than a locomotive"
"Can leap tall buildings in a single bound"...

SUPERMAN......Coming to theaters this summer/winter. I'm actually in favor of a winter release, btw.

[The Guard]

Ok...They also said two for Superman when they went to any of the Superman movies, two for Batman at The Dark Knight, two for Indiana Jones, etc.
So do you want the next James Bond movie to be called "James Bond"? Is that your point?

No. I'm saying who gives a damn what the public calls things? That's not their actual title.

[DavidTyler]

I'd really like the next film to be called 'The Last Son of Krypton' and leave 'Superman' out of the title completely.

That would justify showing Krypton and then taking us thru to Clark's dual life.

The kicker could be that the villain could possibly be, not Brainiac, but the Eradicator - but not in human form... as the device it was originally in the story arc that introduced it. Luthor could find it and when Superman interacts with it, it changes him as we saw in the comix. He has to fight to return to the person he was.

Originally Posted by NotFadeAway

Just calling the film "Superman" is perfection. It's simple, to the point, and has never been done. There has always been something else in the title.

I can see the trailer now......

"Faster than a speeding bullet"
"More powerful than a locomotive"
"Can leap tall buildings in a single bound"...

SUPERMAN......Coming to theaters this summer/winter. I'm actually in favor of a winter release, btw.

The first movie was called Superman. The title card on the film says "Superman" Richard Donner calls it Superman and Ilya Salkind explained (in the commentary I think) that "The Movie" was added for marketing purposes, to differentiate the movie from all other media.

I agree the name "Superman" is perfect which is why it belongs to the best film in the franchise.

[kalelkilla]

There is a "Name the Movie Thread"...

[Rogzilla]

You know, if they are "rebooting" it, I think we don't need to see his origin, but we should see his transformation. It's what I liked about Birthright. We saw the steps he went through, the emotional journey from start to finish. If WB did something like that and REALLY focused on Clark's growing issues of dual identities, his desire for understanding contrasted with Luthor's desire for dominance of knowledge, and an overall theme of the films of Clark just trying for find his place in the universe, WB would have the potential for another Batman franchise.

[Doc Samson]

IDK, personally, I just feel like the origin of Superman is a time tested myth that we all know by now. Between Donner & Smallville, how much more delving into it do we really need? BB was the first Batman movie after 4 that finally put the focus on him, and told a story that was never told before in the movies. Supes doesn't need that again, what he needs is an adventure fit for the man of steel, reboot or sequel or whatever. He needs to be pitted against real villains with real strength and intelligence that can cause real planetary damage. We also need to see other planets, species, parts of the galaxy, stuff that only Superman can do.

[Rogzilla]

No other planets, no intergalactic stuff. That is Green Lantern territory, perhaps Justice League later on. Superman needs to be earthbound.

Donner and Smallville don't handle the emotional progress. Smallville is artificial are going back and forth on it. Donner just had him suddenly decide he was going to help, but we don't know WHY, where the influence came from, what in his life made him the way he was, why isn't he selfish, why does he wear THAT outfit, so on and so forth. That is what the reboot should handle

[Mike_D202]

I dont care if they reboot it, but I just hope they keep the John Williams score dammit. Its iconic and timeless.

[Doc Samson]

Originally Posted by Rogzilla

No other planets, no intergalactic stuff. That is Green Lantern territory, perhaps Justice League later on. Superman needs to be earthbound.

Donner and Smallville don't handle the emotional progress. Smallville is artificial are going back and forth on it. Donner just had him suddenly decide he was going to help, but we don't know WHY, where the influence came from, what in his life made him the way he was, why isn't he selfish, why does he wear THAT outfit, so on and so forth. That is what the reboot should handle

Why? It was Superman territory long before Green Lantern was even created. He's always going to be based in Metropolis, but after all these movies, we need something new. Donner and Smallville handled his emotional progress, what else is there to know? Donner showed where all his influence and personality came from, where the suit & symbol came from, when he was sitting in that pod getting lectures from his father on why he was sent to Earth in the first place. We then saw him interact with his surrogate parents where he got further knowledge on how to be a good man. Its not like Donner or Smallville are the end all be all, but my point is that the topic has been touched on quite a few times, audiences need something different other than Clark feeling alienated, saving Lois from faling somewhere and fighting Lex Luthor, again.

[Closerframe]

It wouldn't hurt to show Superman's origins in the first 10 minutes of the new film. Not ever person that goes to see a Superman film is a big fan thats been supportive of him since the 1970's. Some people don't want to watch a generic looking origin of Superman being placed in an old plastic looking ship, they want a CGI showing of Krypton exploding. Superman needs a reboot, not just a film that begins with him fighting a villain in the middle of the streets. People shouldn't have to be forced to do research on a character before they see a film.

[lixdexia]

Originally Posted by Mike_D202

I dont care if they reboot it, but I just hope they keep the John Williams score dammit. Its iconic and timeless.

i agree it was perfect and the first few notes instantly recall superman to mind, but i feel that way about elfman's first batman theme too and that would not have worked for batman begins or the dark knight at all. i vote for a new theme for a reboot, hopefully they'll be able to capture those same feelings as the williams score in a way that fits the new movie.

as for origin screen time and why he became superman, i think you need the rocket scene and then you can jump to when ever and develop the why he chose to be superman from there. you can't just depend on people knowing that stuff because this would be an entirely different superman, he would have nearly identical motivations sure, but to fit in a contemporary film he would not have the same experience growing up that he did in the donner films. superman birthright did this damn near perfectly imo (though alot of the pre-suit stuff would be unnecisary in a film).

[Doc Samson]

I can understand what you guys are saying, but we're not talking about any old superhero here. This is Superman! Take a picture to Japan, Germany, Africa, anywhere, I'm confident most people know who he is. If anybody walking into a Superman movie knows nothing of his origin or who he is, then I have to question their upbringing. He's a global icon the world over, people know who he is, without question. There is no other hero as popular, regardless of what a recent movie might lead you to believe, not Spiderman, and no, not Batman either. Doing the origin again will be retreading, essentially, what Donner did, which Singer already tried just a few years ago. There's only so many ways to tell it, it's pretty cut and dry. Why would it be so bad to have Superman already be Superman at the start of the movie, doing something new, ANYTHING new?

[lixdexia]

Originally Posted by Doc Samson

I can understand what you guys are saying, but we're not talking about any old superhero here. This is Superman! Take a picture to Somalia, Germany, Africa, anywhere, I'm confident most people know who he is. If anybody walking into a Superman movie knows nothing of his origin or who he is, then I have to question their upbringing. He's a global icon the world over, people know who he is, without question. There is no other hero as popular, regardless of what a recent movie might lead you to believe, not Spiderman, and no, not Batman either. Doing the origin again will be retreading, essentially, what Donner did, which Singer already tried just a few years ago. There's only so many ways to tell it, it's pretty cut and dry. Why would it be so bad to have Superman already be Superman at the start of the movie, doing something new, ANYTHING new?

which is why i'm saying it gets cut down to a 2 min segment of krypton exploding and the rocket firing off then we cut to something like clark moving to metropolis. we know how he grows up and all sure, but i'd really like to see the "why" he dresses up for a bit. and that doesn't have to be a talking heads segment, it doesn't really even have to be pre-suit the whole time. but he doesn't just save people because he can, that's boring. WHY is he superman? that's the movie i want to see.

[Rogzilla]

Originally Posted by Doc Samson

Why? It was Superman territory long before Green Lantern was even created. He's always going to be based in Metropolis, but after all these movies, we need something new. Donner and Smallville handled his emotional progress, what else is there to know? Donner showed where all his influence and personality came from, where the suit & symbol came from, when he was sitting in that pod getting lectures from his father on why he was sent to Earth in the first place. We then saw him interact with his surrogate parents where he got further knowledge on how to be a good man. Its not like Donner or Smallville are the end all be all, but my point is that the topic has been touched on quite a few times, audiences need something different other than Clark feeling alienated, saving Lois from faling somewhere and fighting Lex Luthor, again.

Because if you start doing that in Superman, then Green Lantern becomes redundent. Why did The Dark Knight do so well? Because it wasn't just a Superhero movie. It was a police drama with superhero characters in it. It staked it's own claim. I think all superhero films should do this.

Wonder Woman-Large Scale Fantasy
Green Lantern-Intergalactic Space Opera
Aquaman-Swashbuckling High Seas
Superman-Invasion/Disasters

Superman has always been at his best knocking around some super powered baddy in the skies over Metropolis. Just because he HAS gone to other planets doesn't mean that is where he should stake his claim in films.

And no, there is not emotional journey in Donner's films. Clark Kent is a good person through the whole thing and doesn't grow or really respond in any way to the situations around him. How can someone raised to be a simple man REALLY comprehend everything that he is becoming, a savior, a GOD to some. What does that do to him emotionally, how does he grow? We never see it, we just show that at one point he is a teenager who kinda shows off but not really, then he is a grown up wearing bulky clothes at one time and spandex at the other. We don't see him get the suit, nor do we get any real explanation. We ASSUME things but those are called plot holes and aren't good film making or story telling.

He does grow in Smallville but it's one step forward, two steps back. He is spending too much time whining to believe that he is anywhere NEAR becoming Superman.

No one wants a long, drawn out experience on Krypton (though maybe a direct to video DC Universe Animated prequel showing the history of Krypton ala Gotham Knight would be a cool addition.) We want to see character development. Make us CARE about Superman. I don't just want to see him lift and punch stuff for 2 hours. I want to see him grow, learn and progress.

People worry that Superman isn't relevant anymore...well then MAKE him relevant. Not "darker" but more personable, more relatable. Not flawed, but an actual character, not a plot point.

[Doc Samson]

Originally Posted by Rogzilla

Because if you start doing that in Superman, then Green Lantern becomes redundent. Why did The Dark Knight do so well? Because it wasn't just a Superhero movie. It was a police drama with superhero characters in it. It staked it's own claim. I think all superhero films should do this.

Wonder Woman-Large Scale Fantasy
Green Lantern-Intergalactic Space Opera
Aquaman-Swashbuckling High Seas
Superman-Invasion/Disasters

Superman has always been at his best knocking around some super powered baddy in the skies over Metropolis. Just because he HAS gone to other planets doesn't mean that is where he should stake his claim in films.

And no, there is not emotional journey in Donner's films. Clark Kent is a good person through the whole thing and doesn't grow or really respond in any way to the situations around him. How can someone raised to be a simple man REALLY comprehend everything that he is becoming, a savior, a GOD to some. What does that do to him emotionally, how does he grow? We never see it, we just show that at one point he is a teenager who kinda shows off but not really, then he is a grown up wearing bulky clothes at one time and spandex at the other. We don't see him get the suit, nor do we get any real explanation. We ASSUME things but those are called plot holes and aren't good film making or story telling.

He does grow in Smallville but it's one step forward, two steps back. He is spending too much time whining to believe that he is anywhere NEAR becoming Superman.

No one wants a long, drawn out experience on Krypton (though maybe a direct to video DC Universe Animated prequel showing the history of Krypton ala Gotham Knight would be a cool addition.) We want to see character development. Make us CARE about Superman. I don't just want to see him lift and punch stuff for 2 hours. I want to see him grow, learn and progress.

People worry that Superman isn't relevant anymore...well then MAKE him relevant. Not "darker" but more personable, more relatable. Not flawed, but an actual character, not a plot point.

I can agree with some of this, but I still feel like alot of things were touched on. I can understand what your saying though, but to me, part of what makes Superman who he is, is the fact that he is essentially just a good guy, and always has been. There doesn't need to be some kind of event or evolution that made him into the hero he is, the event was having his planet explode and being shipped off to Earth with the intent to protect its people.

I'm one who feels that Superman isn't as relevant anymore, but that has to do with the society we live in and what people like in their heroes more than anything else. Like I said in another post, Captain America will have the same problems, because they are straight laced goody two shoe characters, and thats how they should be. Character development hasn't always been Superman's strong suit in the comics for plenty of years, which is part of the reason why his history and powers and have been tinkered with so much, along with some kooky half baked ideas to draw attention to him every so often. Since TDK, it seems like people expect everything to reach those kind of levels. Superman is the most well known superhero on the planet, but TDK had a perfect storm of things happening all at once that elevated that movie past what BB did, and probably, what the third film will do.

I've been reading Superman all my life, since birth I've been tied to Superman, I find myself having to explain my love for the character because I tell the truth about him, at least from my perspective, and it seems to anger some fans, like I'm disrespecting, which isn't the case. But he is a vanilla character, to a certain extent, and that's nothing to be ashamed of or try to run from. He was made at a time when a hero like that was exactly what the people wanted to read, the kind of escapism they needed. Now, things are different, but he's such an iconic character that no kind of change ever really works. Singer tried to humanize him with some human problems and we see how well that went over. We just need exciting villains and challenges that he hasn't faced on the big screen, not more examination of the same story we've been told countless times already. That doesn't mean it will automatically become a slugfest with no substance either. There has to be other ways to delve into his psyche outside of another obligatory origin story. He had the luxury of being the first one to get it right all those years ago, we've had hundreds since then, the people expect and deserve more. UC73 mentions that it's boring if Superman just saves people because he can, but honestly, that's exactly why he does it, because he can, and noone else will. It's really no deeper than that

[Spirited Away]

I absolutely hate the idea of a reboot. Just do a normal action film, set in a new re-invented universe that completely bypasses the need to do an origin story. Like the new Hulk done better.

[kalelkilla]

There are plenty of threats to the planet Earth that Superman can take care of, there is no need to have him in adventures in other galaxies, I think films like Independence Day and Transformers do so well because the situation usually threatens the entire HUMAN race, that still strikes a cord in the audiences, that emotional connection may not be there if Superman, say, has to save another planet or something... I don't think the audience would care...we are selfish like that, WE want the saving, WE want SUPERMAN!

[Double Down]

Originally Posted by kalelkilla

There are plenty of threats to the planet Earth that Superman can take care of, there is no need to have him in adventures in other galaxies, I think films like Independence Day and Transformers do so well because the situation usually threatens the entire HUMAN race, that still strikes a cord in the audiences, that emotional connection may not be there if Superman, say, has to save another planet or something... I don't think the audience would care...we are selfish like that, WE want the saving, WE want SUPERMAN!

I agree.

[The Kid]

Originally Posted by Mike_D202

I dont care if they reboot it, but I just hope they keep the John Williams score dammit. Its iconic and timeless.

They can't. It's forever tied to the original movie and rightfully so. It'd be like Nolan using elfman's theme and hoping people still believe it's a new batman. What singer did with Returns is equivalent to what was done in Batman Forever (not the best movie to pattern yours after) But yeah, it's the same thing. Returns is its own world, different continuity, but borrows from the originals here and there. It was a mistake to do that and the next superman movie needs to have its own identity seperate from the past movies.

I understood what singer was trying to do myself, and Returns is way better than all of raimi's spiderman movies, but in reality not many people would come to that conclusion and just assume it's a very late sequel.

[ClarkLuther55]

They need to come up with a new theme to differentiate the new movie from Superman Returns and the Donner films. It's not like Donner's theme is the only good one ever made for Superman:

Superman: Doomsday
Superman: The Animated Series

[Rogzilla]

I am torn on the theme. On the one hand, I think the John Williams theme is great and can be done with a lot of power, making it an emotional experience. On the other hand, a proper reboot shouldn't use the theme of the previous movies.

[\S/JcDc\S/]

I don't know if it's from being around here too long or what... This forum is becoming a sad place. From thread to thread I see no new ideas, just the same old crap We need official news to have something to talk about!

The rehashing of "ideas" is sickening.

[C. Lee]

Originally Posted by \S/JcDc\S/

I don't know if it's from being around here too long or what... This forum is becoming a sad place. From thread to thread I see no new ideas, just the same old crap We need official news to have something to talk about!

The rehashing of "ideas" is sickening.

Cheer up Bunkie.....things will get better.

[\S/JcDc\S/]

Originally Posted by C. Lee

Cheer up Bunkie.....things will get better.

I've been waiting since I was a kid to have a new modern Supes franchise and things always stall.

It's so much easier to be a Batman or Spidey fan lol.