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Old 10-06-2008, 05:55 PM   #26
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Default Re: Please, no "Superman Begins"

Let's just agree to disagree and leave it at that.

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Old 10-06-2008, 05:57 PM   #27
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Default Re: Please, no "Superman Begins"

i find it funny that fanboys are the only ones that dont care for origin stories.

yeah...because the general audience will be sooo excited to wait an hour before superman starts smacking things around. the truth is, the only ones that give a damn period about an origin, whether they use it or not, are fanboys. the general audience will not care whether they use it or not.

IMO, this movie's already in danger of being formulaic...why make it worse by wasting time with the same origin format STM created in the first place?

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Old 10-06-2008, 06:00 PM   #28
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Default Re: Please, no "Superman Begins"

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I actually would prefer it if they just did a stand alone type film and not an origin story.
I also think that a stand alone film is the way to go. Closure is nice with each film.

Smallville handicaps a silver screen origin story in some ways. We've seen Eight seasons of Clark growing up for better and worse.

A new version may highlight that transition in a different way, but if it's not beneficial to the story, film's character arcs, or a major plot point, I'd prefer to focus on a different time in his life.

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Old 10-06-2008, 06:01 PM   #29
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Default Re: Please, no "Superman Begins"

I think the movie needs to be some kind of origin type. Maybe not all the flown from Krypton stuff, but I really think we need to see the beginning stages of Clarks relationships with other characters. Its not so much whats already known, its building a sense of chemistry between actors. Routh and Bosworth never felt real to me, because it never felt like they'd known each other that long. I think in the new movie, relationships need to be built from the ground up.

Funny thing is, I don't mind if they change the origin up a bit, but when JJ Abrams tried to do it, people threw a hissy fit. I certainly wouldn't mind seeing a differnent version of an origin, with fantastic new special effects.

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Old 10-06-2008, 06:04 PM   #30
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Default Re: Please, no "Superman Begins"

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Yeah comics and TV series (where the origins are changed often) are in the exact same ball-game as films. Great example!
Umm, mind telling me how they're not comparable? A reboot film is starting off on a clean slate just like any of those series' at the point where they retold an origin. The medium has nothing to do with it.

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Oh yeah...The Passion had to absolutely retell the origin of Jesus so people could follow it.
Naming a film or two are exceptions, not the rule. A great majority of films featuring Jesus do retell his genesis.

And one thing you conveniently don't consider, is that Jesus' story is an essential element of Christianity. Yes, the religion. The religion whose believers encompass a third of the world's population. These numbers don't exactly lessen because the religion is taught to kids and adults alike for a limitless time. It doesn't go away.

Compare that to Superman who has had "gaps" of relevance to an audience. Hence why you have entire generations who don't have much knowledge on the character.

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Let's just agree to disagree and leave it at that.
Ok.

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Old 10-06-2008, 06:06 PM   #31
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Default Re: Please, no "Superman Begins"

There's nothing that says a Superman origin movie has to cover the same ground as Donner's SUPERMAN: THE MOVIE, or that it needs to play out in a linear fashion.

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Old 10-06-2008, 06:06 PM   #32
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Default Re: Please, no "Superman Begins"

Maybe I'm just too old and set in my ways. I grew up watching S:TM and I assume that anyone's who's a fan has seen the movie already. You could make the argument that any new twist on the origin story is "new" but I'd much rather see Superman fight Brainiac or Darkseid than see Krypton explode again.

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Old 10-06-2008, 06:07 PM   #33
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Default Re: Please, no "Superman Begins"

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There's nothing that says a Superman origin movie has to cover the same ground as Donner's SUPERMAN: THE MOVIE, or that it needs to play out in a linear fashion.
Thank you. I'm surprised that people think an origin movie is gonna play out just like the Donner film.

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Old 10-06-2008, 06:21 PM   #34
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Default Re: Please, no "Superman Begins"

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Maybe I'm just too old and set in my ways. I grew up watching S:TM and I assume that anyone's who's a fan has seen the movie already. You could make the argument that any new twist on the origin story is "new" but I'd much rather see Superman fight Brainiac or Darkseid than see Krypton explode again.
You answer yourself: "I grew up watching S:TM and I assume that anyone's who's a fan has seen the movie already."

What makes u think that the movie will be made JUST for fans? Just for YOU? Or just for ME?

Do u know how many ppl buy Superman comics? Around 50k.

Movies are made to reach a much, much, MUCH, MUUUUCH bigger audience than fans. Get used to it.

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Old 10-06-2008, 07:59 PM   #35
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Default Re: Please, no "Superman Begins"

There are SO many aspects of Clark Kent's history that has not been on the big screen. Some people on these boards think that everyone watches the same Superman related media that they do...it's simply not true. Everyone knows that he came from another planet and was raised by the Kents and that he loves Lois Lane. But other than that I'm not sure the mass majority of people know much else...How was raising a super powered teenager? Where did Clark go to College? Why did he pick journalism? There is so much we don't know about his teens and 20s...(much like Jesus) most people just know that he crashed landed as an infant and when he turned 30 he went to Metropolis as Superman...well what about all those years in between? It's a good way to do an origin story without doing an origin story...if you get what I mean...Yes I know these things I'm bringing up have been addressed in the comics and in smallville...but lets get real people, most people don't read comics, and most people don't watch smallville.

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Old 10-06-2008, 08:02 PM   #36
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Default Re: Please, no "Superman Begins"

I don't understand how people take a CARTOON made for 5 year olds, and preach about it like it's Superman cannon...

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Old 10-06-2008, 08:26 PM   #37
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Default Re: Please, no "Superman Begins"

Me no get it. Having a villain thread and an origin told are not mutually exclusive. Didn't you guys see Ironman, Daredevil, Batman Begins, Spider-man, etc.? All these HAD the origin story AND 1(or more) villain. In fact,playing Brainiac of the origin is a great way to have him be the villain.

I think we already saw what happens when you drop the character in the middle of the story last time. You can't fully connect to him and he becomes "a force" rather than someone you'd be. You see him in third person, rather than fourth.

Could they skip it? Yeah, if they play their cards right they could save the whole Krypton charade. But It'd be a more powerfull effect if the audience followed the hero from the cradle into the earth's most powerfull hero.

Do we know it? Sure. We also know beforehand he's gonna win and save the day, and that doesn't detriment from the enjoyment.

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I don't understand how people take a CARTOON made for 5 year olds, and preach about it like it's Superman cannon..
Krypto the Superdog?

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Old 10-06-2008, 09:32 PM   #38
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Default Re: Please, no "Superman Begins"

An origin story doesn't have to play out like STM, as mentioned already. I'm already in favor of a Superman who's not aware of his origins and learns about them throughout the movie and presented to us through flashbacks. Others prefer it a different way, but regardless, nobody's saying it should go down the same way as in STM. The opposite, actually.

If you reboot, you need an origin to a bigger or lesser extend. It's a bad idea not to have one, even from a writing standpoint. You need to establish your character. Very few characters work with the here and now, without references to their past and these aren't designed for longevity. Superman isn't like Bond. Or Indy. He's like Batman. And Spider-Man. He's a comic book character. He'll come and go and then come again to appeal to a different crowd. You can't take an already established Superman, throw him in different context and expect him to make sense.

Overall, I find it absolutely ridiculous that the newer ones of us are essentially denied a brand-new Superman retelling, simply because STM exists.

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Old 10-06-2008, 09:43 PM   #39
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Default Re: Please, no "Superman Begins"

Make it as good as TDK, but not as dark.

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Old 10-06-2008, 11:18 PM   #40
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Default Re: Please, no "Superman Begins"

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There's nothing that says a Superman origin movie has to cover the same ground as Donner's SUPERMAN: THE MOVIE, or that it needs to play out in a linear fashion.
This is the most intelligent post in this thread. Origin doesn't necessarily mean it has to be straight from the beginning. If anything, like lighthouse said that first interaction with the characters is needed. How are they going to start a movie with a villain and not explain why he doesn't have a kid (Oh did everyone forget that SR came out in 2006). A non linear origin is the best option. Clark comes to the daily planet for the first time, we get to know the characters, intercut with some moments as a child and have a villain that allows for Kryptons story to be told.

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Old 10-06-2008, 11:53 PM   #41
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Default Re: Please, no "Superman Begins"

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There's nothing that says a Superman origin movie has to cover the same ground as Donner's SUPERMAN: THE MOVIE, or that it needs to play out in a linear fashion.
Took the words out of my mouth.

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Old 10-07-2008, 12:27 AM   #42
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Default Re: Please, no "Superman Begins"

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The planet Krypton explodes, but before so Jor-El (a kind and wise scientist) and his wife place their infant son in a spaceship where it escapes and crash lands on Earth. There the child is discovered by Jonathon Kent (a kind and wise farmer) and his wife, an older childless couple, who take the baby and raise him as their own where they bestoy upon him morals and values. Eventually, he grows up to discover his true heritage as Earth's protector and becomes Superman.

^That is the basics of Superman's origin. There's no need of re-treading that territory for 30-60 minutes (again) because it's common knowledge to us nerds and regular folks.

If anything, Superman (along with James Bond) is the only film franchise where the filmmakers could easily make each installment stand alone.
And here in lies why there absolutely NEEDS to be an origin story.

It's just not that cut and dried.

Jor-els story is not as simple as what you've posted here. It's a story about a rebel who has to resort to drastic means to save the life of his son. It's a great story and a great bit of science fiction if it's done right. It could be epic in it's own right like one of the great science fiction films of the past - like Logan's Run.

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Old 10-07-2008, 01:02 AM   #43
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Default Re: Please, no "Superman Begins"

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Make it as good as TDK, but not as dark.
Easier said than done.

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Old 10-07-2008, 02:06 AM   #44
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Default Re: Please, no "Superman Begins"

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And here in lies why there absolutely NEEDS to be an origin story.

It's just not that cut and dried.

Jor-els story is not as simple as what you've posted here. It's a story about a rebel who has to resort to drastic means to save the life of his son. It's a great story and a great bit of science fiction if it's done right. It could be epic in it's own right like one of the great science fiction films of the past - like Logan's Run.
well batmans origin is very much connected with who he is after that.

with superman are you gonna tell me that what joer-el is doing on krypton has any connection with superman saving people? its a nice backstory for superman.from where he came. but it has no conenction with lex luthor the villain and lois lane. superman saves people because of pa and ma kent.
just my opinion.

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Old 10-07-2008, 02:09 AM   #45
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Default Re: Please, no "Superman Begins"

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This is the most intelligent post in this thread. Origin doesn't necessarily mean it has to be straight from the beginning. If anything, like lighthouse said that first interaction with the characters is needed. How are they going to start a movie with a villain and not explain why he doesn't have a kid (Oh did everyone forget that SR came out in 2006). A non linear origin is the best option. Clark comes to the daily planet for the first time, we get to know the characters, intercut with some moments as a child and have a villain that allows for Kryptons story to be told.
i think a lot of people want every from the beginning. step by step. like i am a 3 yr old and need very slow scenes.


the origin needs to be interesting. it is what it is. if you want to spend 30 minutes with the origin it needs to be interesting. with BB the orign was about bruce. supermans origin is 20 minutes of joer-el,lara,krypton shots,earthquake,explosion. where is here superman? ohhh the baby.
make it interesting and let kal-el be a part of the origin and i am on your side.

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Old 10-07-2008, 06:58 AM   #46
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Default Re: Please, no "Superman Begins"

dark_b - it is VERY MUCH connected to who Clark is. It doesn't have to be connected to Luthor.

We need to see that Clark is not just an average guy even though he very much acts like one and would like to be one. We need to see the heroism of Jor-El (not joer-el) so we can see how that carried down the blood-line to Kal-El.

AND - it could be a very exciting story.

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Old 10-07-2008, 07:08 AM   #47
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Default Re: Please, no "Superman Begins"

i just donw want S:TM origin with updated effects and a different krypton. it needs to woow people.
i really dont want to bring BB in this thread but it is what it is. a lot of people just love the first hour of BB. a lot more then other origins. it is a little cliche and they use some cliche lines. but its more interesting then just to see a boy in the corner when some football players are getting all the girls. yeah i am watching at you donner and raimi.

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Old 10-07-2008, 08:15 AM   #48
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Default Re: Please, no "Superman Begins"

You know. Batman Begins worked, but I don't think you should tell Superman's origins like that.

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Old 10-07-2008, 08:26 AM   #49
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Default Re: Please, no "Superman Begins"

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I've never seen Superman's origin. I wasn't alive in 1978.
Really? God dude, rent a DVD once in a while. Hell it's Superman, buy a DVD once in a while. We can even get Superman: The Movie on Blu-Ray, go buy that if you want. It might not be a cinema but it's Blu-Ray so it's Hi-Def.

I'm all for a rebot but they don't need to focus too much on the origin, it's superman and everyone knows the basics. All we need for an Origin is the opening from Smallville when Ma and Pa Kent find him, a 2 min montage showing him age and use powers, then maybethe opening of Lois and Clack when he first get his job and put the hand print in the front of the bus.

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Old 10-07-2008, 08:27 AM   #50
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Default Re: Please, no "Superman Begins"

Actually, part of Superman's origin as of the latter years has been traveling around the world to decide what he wants to do with his powers. It's probably a risky idea, seeing as how many people will probably think he's ripping Batman off, but Superman being lonely isn't the only aspect of his earlier years. They should eventually start touching on that too.

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