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Old 12-01-2008, 11:15 AM   #26
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Default Re: Superman Reboot theory.

Superman will be rebooted; but, not for the reason you describe.

It is my contention, Warner will start the franchise anew, with a new director, producer, and cast; in conjunction with the end of Nolanís Batman and start of other solo projects like WW, GL, etc. Probably, so they can use those stars at some point, in a JL film, with a new Batman. Pretty much following the Marvel format.

Really, there's no surprise here.

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Old 12-01-2008, 11:51 AM   #27
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Default Re: Superman Reboot theory.

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Originally Posted by Ultimate_Superman View Post
Well if you read the Superman comics a lot of things comes from Donner now. The way Clark acts, the FOS, the look of Krypton, the Jor-El hologram, the use of Crystals, even the ship that sent him to eath.
Not to mention the Phantom Zone villains.

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So its not one thing however Johns may change that with this book but I don't see him changing much since he added all this stuff in there in the first place.
I suspect this new Secret Origins story probably isn't going to deviate too much from what we've already seen from Johns and Frank - my guess is that since their particular "take" on Superman hasn't really been given an in-continuity version of the origin, that's probably what they'll be leaning toward, with minor alterations. Filling in the blanks, you might say.

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Old 12-01-2008, 05:00 PM   #28
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Default Re: Superman Reboot theory.

I blame Bryan Singer for all the silver age/Donner influences in the Superman books of today. They tried to fall in line with a movie they believed would be more liked and successful, and now everything is just ruined because of Bryan Singe's hard on for Donner.

I am a fan of Byrne's MOS and Birthright, Superman: For All Seasons, and I love the TAS Superman stories. I'm a fan of Clark being the real person, I think it opens up more stories. Thats perhaps my biggest beef with Donner/Silver Age, I hate bumbling Clark. I think, personally, that the silver age/Donner concepts are boring, one dimensional stories about a Kryptonian Jesus, and I prefer stories about the man that is Superman. And I dislike Crystal ball Krypton, or should I say Krystal ball Krypton. Post-Crisis Superman has also never been given a fair shake live action wise. L&C was a romance series that had a bad actor as Clark/Superman, and I don't know what the hell Smallville wants to be, but there is another bad actor in Welling. I'm under the personal belief that with a great actor and script, post crisis Superman owns in a big screen movie.

But I'm not going to freak out, and I'm going to tell other PC/Byrne/Birthright/TAS lovers not to as well. These silver age fans, it's just there time. One day, and it will happen as soon as DC decides to stop living in the past, one day we will have our version of Geoff Johns, and we will own the silver age once and for all. It's just a matter of time......and slightly off topic, I hate that Barry Allen is back. Wally West will always be the best Flash.

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Old 12-01-2008, 05:07 PM   #29
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Default Re: Superman Reboot theory.

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Originally Posted by NotFadeAway View Post
I blame Bryan Singer for all the silver age/Donner influences in the Superman books of today. They tried to fall in line with a movie they believed would be more liked and successful, and now everything is just ruined because of Bryan Singe's hard on for Donner.
As I've said multiple times and even by mego joe, even if Superman Returns was never made, the Superman comics of today would still be heavily influenced by the Donner films and Silver Age.

Like Bryan Singer, Geoff Johns has a massive hard on for Richard Donner, if not more considering that he worked for Donner at one point. The only difference between Singer and Johns is that Johns at least recognizes that there is more to Superman than the Donner material hence why he has Silver Age influences and has most of the post-Crisis stuff still in continuity.

Superman Returns coming out the same time as One Year Later was just a coincidence. The Superman mythos are the way they are today because of how Geoff Johns is interpreting them (quite fantastically by the way), not because of Bryan Singer.

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Old 12-01-2008, 06:53 PM   #30
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Default Re: Superman Reboot theory.

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Originally Posted by hippie_hunter View Post
Like Bryan Singer, Geoff Johns has a massive hard on for Richard Donner, if not more considering that he worked for Donner at one point. The only difference between Singer and Johns is that Johns at least recognizes that there is more to Superman than the Donner material hence why he has Silver Age influences and has most of the post-Crisis stuff still in continuity.

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Old 12-01-2008, 07:00 PM   #31
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Default Re: Superman Reboot theory.

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Originally Posted by hippie_hunter View Post
As I've said multiple times and even by mego joe, even if Superman Returns was never made, the Superman comics of today would still be heavily influenced by the Donner films and Silver Age.

Like Bryan Singer, Geoff Johns has a massive hard on for Richard Donner, if not more considering that he worked for Donner at one point. The only difference between Singer and Johns is that Johns at least recognizes that there is more to Superman than the Donner material hence why he has Silver Age influences and has most of the post-Crisis stuff still in continuity.

Superman Returns coming out the same time as One Year Later was just a coincidence. The Superman mythos are the way they are today because of how Geoff Johns is interpreting them (quite fantastically by the way), not because of Bryan Singer.
You are right on target. I'm not crazy about the Donner bumbling Kent, and wish we could lose him somehow. My issue has always been that SR has nearly ruined the positives of the Donnerverse. I have no real issue with Donner stuff included in the comics other than it reminds me of SR. If SR had never come out I would probably think the Donner Fortress being in the comics was cool. Unfortunately, SR has severly colored my impressions of the Donnerverse for the worse, despite having experienced the Donnerverse stuff as a child growing up.

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Old 12-01-2008, 07:29 PM   #32
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Default Re: Superman Reboot theory.

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You are right on target. I'm not crazy about the Donner bumbling Kent, and wish we could lose him somehow. My issue has always been that SR has nearly ruined the positives of the Donnerverse. I have no real issue with Donner stuff included in the comics other than it reminds me of SR. If SR had never come out I would probably think the Donner Fortress being in the comics was cool. Unfortunately, SR has severly colored my impressions of the Donnerverse for the worse, despite having experienced the Donnerverse stuff as a child growing up.
Frankly, it doesn't remind me of SR at all BECAUSE of SR not doing a very good job with the best parts of S:TM and SII (I just feel awkward using the term "Donnerverse" when Donner was only really involved in the first movie and part of the second - by this logic, I suppose "Last Son" would probably fall under the umbrella of what I'd call the "Donnerverse"). And IMO Johns' Clark isn't nearly as clumsy as Reeve's or Routh's portrayal - he's more like the quiet guy in the corner who nobody else in the bullpen really pays any attention to because they think he's weird (of course, given that he and Lois are married, I suppose that'd be impetus enough for the man to be acting a little less goofy). And hey, at least Johns' Lex isn't obsessed with land.

In as much as Johns and Frank have been homaging Donner and the Silver Age, there's still much more of Post-Crisis continuity still intact, and I seriously doubt that all the crystal Fortresses and white-haired Jor-Els and Kara Zor-Els in Superman's past are going to change that, any more than a retro-styled cartoon with a brighter and more humorous portrayal of Batman is going to degrade the Dark Knight of the comics that we've known for the last 30 years.

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Old 12-01-2008, 07:58 PM   #33
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Default Re: Superman Reboot theory.

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In as much as Johns and Frank have been homaging Donner and the Silver Age, there's still much more of Post-Crisis continuity still intact
This really has no relevance for the post-Crisis readership. How much exactly of post-Crisis continuity is intact? How can we know? Someone had the great idea to reboot Superman after IC, without rebooting Superman after IC, so the only way to really know is come across contradictions in future stories that nullify the earlier, post-Crisis ones.

And, really, you think it matters to someone who favors post-Crisis Superman? OK, so Superman died in the hands of Doomsday and Lois found something marry-worthy in the man who needs to have a security council with himself about tying his shoes in a public place. Still, Pa's dead. Jor-El's a giant head. We have the "true Brainiac", as opposed to the old "fake" ones. I've already mentioned Clark. Zod is now his STM incarnation, more or less, complete with the matching crew. Clark had powers since he was a kid. The Superboy is back in continuity, even if he's just restricted to the 31st Century. There is a boatload of Kryptonians out there (even before Superman saved Kandor). Lex might have once been a businessman, but now he's a full-blown criminal mastermind/mad scientist. Supergirl is Kara Zor El and Kryptonite is multi-colored (and, yes, I know they both appeared well-before IC, but that path was being walked on since then).

It's great that you guys can enjoy all that, really, but let's not pretend that it's quite the same as it was before and there is no reason for complaints from those of us who have an issue with all this.

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Old 12-01-2008, 09:44 PM   #34
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Default Re: Superman Reboot theory.

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Originally Posted by NeoRanger View Post
This really has no relevance for the post-Crisis readership. How much exactly of post-Crisis continuity is intact? How can we know? Someone had the great idea to reboot Superman after IC, without rebooting Superman after IC, so the only way to really know is come across contradictions in future stories that nullify the earlier, post-Crisis ones.
You really aren't getting it

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And, really, you think it matters to someone who favors post-Crisis Superman?
Post-Crisis continuity still happened.

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OK, so Superman died in the hands of Doomsday
Yes. They specifically mentioned that Superman was killed by Doomsday in the current New Krypton arc.

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and Lois found something marry-worthy in the man who needs to have a security council with himself about tying his shoes in a public place.
Lois knows that the Clark that Clark presents in the Daily Planet is not the true person. The person she married is Clark Kent, she knows that true Clark.

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Still, Pa's dead.
Yes he is, and it was done in an excellent manner and it's not like he erased Pa from post-Crisis continuity.

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Jor-El's a giant head.
No, Jor-El is dead. What Superman talks to is a computer simulation within the Sunstone crystals.

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We have the "true Brainiac", as opposed to the old "fake" ones.
It was done to combine the multiple variations of Brainiac and to tell them in a coherent fashion that makes sense on why Brainiac has been portrayed as a Coluan, a robot, a computer program, and whatnot.

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Zod is now his STM incarnation, more or less, complete with the matching crew.
The Zod that Donner presented is the best incarnation of Zod.

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Clark had powers since he was a kid.
Clark has had powers since he was a kid in most incarnations of Superman. Smallville, Superman: The Movie, Superman: The Animated Series, etc.

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The Superboy is back in continuity, even if he's just restricted to the 31st Century.
I was iffy on this, but after reading it, Johns' handling of the Legion has been really well done.

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There is a boatload of Kryptonians out there (even before Superman saved Kandor).
Don't blame Johns on that one. Loeb brought back Supergirl. Superboy was a half-human/half-Kryptonian hybrid. The Phantom Zone criminals have been around for a while. There was a Kryptonian Zod from a pocket dimension that Byrne had Superman kill.

Quote:
Lex might have once been a businessman, but now he's a full-blown criminal mastermind/mad scientist.
LexCorp is still in continuity. Lex was a businessman until he became President of the United States and then he was essentially overthrown by Batman and Superman. Johns' first arc on Superman OYL had Lana Lang become the CEO of what was left of LexCorp with the company getting rid of Lex completely because of Lex's criminal activities ruining the company.

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Supergirl is Kara Zor El
Loeb.

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and Kryptonite is multi-colored (and, yes, I know they both appeared well-before IC, but that path was being walked on since then).
So. Kryptonite has been multi-colored before pre and post-Crisis.

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It's great that you guys can enjoy all that, really, but let's not pretend that it's quite the same as it was before and there is no reason for complaints from those of us who have an issue with all this.
The problem isn't that people who complain about what Johns is doing with the Superman comics are complaining about the concepts he uses by automatically going ewwww...Silver Age and are just automatically disdaining it simply because it wasn't a part of the comics they're used to instead of the actual writing.

The writing is downright fantastic.

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Old 12-01-2008, 09:47 PM   #35
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Default Re: Superman Reboot theory.

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Originally Posted by mego joe View Post
You are right on target. I'm not crazy about the Donner bumbling Kent, and wish we could lose him somehow. My issue has always been that SR has nearly ruined the positives of the Donnerverse. I have no real issue with Donner stuff included in the comics other than it reminds me of SR. If SR had never come out I would probably think the Donner Fortress being in the comics was cool. Unfortunately, SR has severly colored my impressions of the Donnerverse for the worse, despite having experienced the Donnerverse stuff as a child growing up.
Just ignore Superman Returns then. My hatred of the Schumaker films and Catwoman doesn't ruin my enjoyment of the Burton Batman films even though they're a part of those movies continuity.

But I like the bumbling Clark. In my opinion, it kinda enhances the love between Lois and Clark because only she essentially gets to see the true Clark Kent that no one else gets to see.

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Old 12-01-2008, 10:10 PM   #36
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Default Re: Superman Reboot theory.

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Originally Posted by hippie_hunter View Post
You really aren't getting it
Oh, the irony.

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Post-Crisis continuity still happened.
No, it didn't. Parts of Post-Crisis continuity still happened and it's still not the point.

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Originally Posted by hippie_hunter View Post
Yes he is, and it was done in an excellent manner and it's not like he erased Pa from post-Crisis continuity.
He's dead. People who liked him alive aren't happy.

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Originally Posted by hippie_hunter View Post
No, Jor-El is dead. What Superman talks to is a computer simulation within the Sunstone crystals.
You don't say! I thought Jor-El was haunting the Fortress.

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Originally Posted by hippie_hunter View Post
It was done to combine the multiple variations of Brainiac and to tell them in a coherent fashion that makes sense on why Brainiac has been portrayed as a Coluan, a robot, a computer program, and whatnot.
It was done, because they liked that new Brainiac. And they went on to add a coherent explanation for him.

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Originally Posted by hippie_hunter View Post
The Zod that Donner presented is the best incarnation of Zod.
I love it how you assert your personal taste as fact, every time we bring up comic books. Especially when you're dodging the question in doing so.

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Originally Posted by hippie_hunter View Post
Clark has had powers since he was a kid in most incarnations of Superman. Smallville, Superman: The Movie, Superman: The Animated Series, etc.
In Smallville they have been developing slowly, In STM he had (for all we know) strength and speed. in TAS they appeared in his teens overnight.... wait. What are we discussing again? Ah, yes, it's not a post-Crisis element.

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Originally Posted by hippie_hunter View Post
I was iffy on this, but after reading it, Johns' handling of the Legion has been really well done.
I don't care about the Legion. I care that I loathe the Silver Age Superboy. And I care that he's not Post-Crisis.

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Originally Posted by hippie_hunter View Post
Don't blame Johns on that one. Loeb brought back Supergirl. Superboy was a half-human/half-Kryptonian hybrid. The Phantom Zone criminals have been around for a while. There was a Kryptonian Zod from a pocket dimension that Byrne had Superman kill.
I never blamed Johns for anything. I blame DiDio and DC for everything.

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Originally Posted by hippie_hunter View Post
LexCorp is still in continuity. Lex was a businessman until he became President of the United States and then he was essentially overthrown by Batman and Superman. Johns' first arc on Superman OYL had Lana Lang become the CEO of what was left of LexCorp with the company getting rid of Lex completely because of Lex's criminal activities ruining the company.
LexCorp is in continuity, but Lex is a mad scientist/career criminal now. I don't see what's so hard to understand about what I'm saying.

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Loeb.
DC.

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Originally Posted by hippie_hunter View Post
The problem isn't that people who complain about what Johns is doing with the Superman comics are complaining about the concepts he uses by automatically going ewwww...Silver Age and are just automatically disdaining it simply because it wasn't a part of the comics they're used to instead of the actual writing.
The problem is that there are conceptual differences between eras. Some people like concepts that come from the Silver Age, some do not. The current era uses mainly concepts from the Silver Age and the Donnerverse, even if they had to adjust them into an existing continuity. If people don't like these concepts, there is a pretty good chance they won't like the books. Just like pretty much every hardcore Superman fan was screaming in agony after Byrne's reboot.

Really, what's so hard to understand?

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The writing is downright fantastic.
It's good. All-Star was fantastic. Action is just good.

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Old 12-01-2008, 11:08 PM   #37
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Default Re: Superman Reboot theory.

First of all, zod was a mess of a character and Johns was able to turn him into one of superman's most compelling villains and I would even go so far as to say top 3. I hated the idea of the movie villains in last son but when I read it it was probably one of the best superman stories to date. I also think for zod not to be in a superman film with the backstory from last son would be a wasted opportunity of a potentially great on screen villain. He even managed to turn non into a compelling character. Neoranger if post crisis is so great why is it that practically no superman story has been hailed as being that good besides out of contuinity ones, I think that speaks volumes.

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Old 12-01-2008, 11:39 PM   #38
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Default Re: Superman Reboot theory.

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zod was a mess of a character and Johns was able to turn him into one of superman's most compelling villains and I would even go so far as to say top 3
What the hell is "compelling" about Johns' Zod? I barely even remember the stories I read him in.

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Neoranger if post crisis is so great why is it that practically no superman story has been hailed as being that good besides out of contuinity ones, I think that speaks volumes.
I'll sit here and wait for you to point out where I even alluded to the "greatness" of the Post-Crisis era. Come on. I'm waiting.

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Old 12-02-2008, 01:01 AM   #39
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Default Re: Superman Reboot theory.

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No, it didn't. Parts of Post-Crisis continuity still happened and it's still not the point.
The vast majority of post-Crisis continuity still happened. The only thing that is really changing is Superman's roots.

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He's dead. People who liked him alive aren't happy.
While *****ing over the fact that Pa was killed in the Donner movies and Silver Age. Pa Kent being alive was great and could have been stupid if it weren't handled properly. But Johns really worked.

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You don't say! I thought Jor-El was haunting the Fortress.
But what the hell is wrong with Jor-El's simulation being in the Fortress?

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It was done, because they liked that new Brainiac. And they went on to add a coherent explanation for him.


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I love it how you assert your personal taste as fact, every time we bring up comic books. Especially when you're dodging the question in doing so.
It kinda is. Most people associate Zod with the Donner version and most Zods in the comics were just...lame. Pocket Universe Zod, Russian Zod, Azzarello's Zod.

Johns took Donner's Zod which is the Zod most people think of and made him much more compelling and interesting.

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In Smallville they have been developing slowly, In STM he had (for all we know) strength and speed. in TAS they appeared in his teens overnight.... wait. What are we discussing again? Ah, yes, it's not a post-Crisis element.
Almost every incarnation of Superman had his powers in his teens. Even Man of Steel and Birthright. The only difference is how they were used and developed.

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I don't care about the Legion. I care that I loathe the Silver Age Superboy. And I care that he's not Post-Crisis.
You are way too obsessed with post-Crisis.

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I never blamed Johns for anything. I blame DiDio and DC for everything.
DiDio deserves no blame or praise for what's going on with Superman. Everything goes to Johns, Busiek, Robinson, Gates, and soon Rucka.

DiDio deserves blame for other things such as poorly managing the Titans books, pissing off Chuck Dixon, completely botching Countdown, etc.

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LexCorp is in continuity, but Lex is a mad scientist/career criminal now. I don't see what's so hard to understand about what I'm saying.
No the way you worded it was completely different. Lex's corporate angle was great and it still exists in a different fashion. However, with the crimes Lex committed and the extent, the angle of him being LexCorp's owner and President of the United States could only last for so long.

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The problem is that there are conceptual differences between eras. Some people like concepts that come from the Silver Age, some do not. The current era uses mainly concepts from the Silver Age and the Donnerverse, even if they had to adjust them into an existing continuity. If people don't like these concepts, there is a pretty good chance they won't like the books. Just like pretty much every hardcore Superman fan was screaming in agony after Byrne's reboot.

Really, what's so hard to understand?
But there's really nothing wrong with concepts. As long as the writing is good that is what should matter the most. Any writer can take the most silly concept and make it good. Just like how any writer can take a great concept and make it suck horribly. Disdaining anything that isn't post-Crisis is absurd just like disdaining anything that is pre-Crisis.

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It's good. All-Star was fantastic. Action is just good.
Action Comics is downright amazing. The Legion and Brainiac arcs are phenominal. New Krypton on the other hand is just good.

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Old 12-02-2008, 01:06 AM   #40
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Default Re: Superman Reboot theory.

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What the hell is "compelling" about Johns' Zod? I barely even remember the stories I read him in.
The fact that he had a legitimate reason to overthrow Krypton's government and really did want to save Krypton. While Zod is a bad person, there are reasons why he turned the way he did. Jor-El turned his back on him. The Kryptonian government looked down upon the military. They had no desire to save Krypton.

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I'll sit here and wait for you to point out where I even alluded to the "greatness" of the Post-Crisis era. Come on. I'm waiting.
You go off acting as if you disdain and downright hate anything pre-Crisis. That is where the allusion comes from.

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Old 12-02-2008, 01:23 AM   #41
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Default Re: Superman Reboot theory.

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The vast majority of post-Crisis continuity still happened. The only thing that is really changing is Superman's roots.
That's highly unlikely. If Brainiac is revamped, then the stories involving the previous Brainiacs are too. Same with Zod. Same with the Phantom Zone killings. Maybe even the same with the Matrix Supergirl.

And once again, whether it happened or not isn't what I'm getting at.

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While *****ing over the fact that Pa was killed in the Donner movies and Silver Age. Pa Kent being alive was great and could have been stupid if it weren't handled properly. But Johns really worked.
Which is completely irrelevant to my argument. If people like Pa to be alive in the comic books, they're going to dislike the fact that he's no longer part of the on-going series.

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It kinda is.
Seriously? Your opinion is a fact? Wow.

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You are way too obsessed with post-Crisis.
Hardly. I'm making a point, that you have yet to go anywhere near.

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DiDio deserves no blame or praise for what's going on with Superman. Everything goes to Johns, Busiek, Robinson, Gates, and soon Rucka.
He's the company's Executive Editor. I assume everything gets passt him before it reaches paper and/or shelves.

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No the way you worded it was completely different. Lex's corporate angle was great and it still exists in a different fashion. However, with the crimes Lex committed and the extent, the angle of him being LexCorp's owner and President of the United States could only last for so long.
How can I make this clear enough for you to see what I'm saying? Let's see:
People like businessman Luthor. They don't like mad scientist Luthor. Luthor is now a full-blown mad scientist. To these people, it doesn't matter if he was once a businessman in this continuity, because they don't like the Luthor they read about now.


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But there's really nothing wrong with concepts. As long as the writing is good that is what should matter the most. Any writer can take the most silly concept and make it good. Just like how any writer can take a great concept and make it suck horribly.
But in this context, the connection between the concept and the writing is irrelevant. It's not about how good the stories are, it's about how much I care to read a Superman story where, say, Clark is invisible. Or how turned off I get when I see Jor-El's giant head.

I don't care how well-written -as I've heard- Grey's Anatomy is, because I have no interest in a soap-opera hospital drama.

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Action Comics is downright amazing. The Legion and Brainiac arcs are phenominal.
You're doing it again. Let's just leave it to personal taste and be done with it.

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You go off acting as if you disdain and downright hate anything pre-Crisis. That is where the allusion comes from.
I haven't so much as referred to my personal opinion on Silver Age concepts, let alone disdain the pre-Crisis era (and that's a gross generalization, considering that I find Golden Age Superman incredibly compelling). I'm making a very simple point that with most post-Crisis concepts thrown out of the window, it's perfectly understandable for post-Crisis fans not to be nearly as excited about Superman anymore.


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Old 12-02-2008, 11:07 AM   #42
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Thats perhaps my biggest beef with Donner/Silver Age, I hate bumbling Clark.
Clark Kent was never as "bumbling" as Reeve in the comics. But you don't know that, you just know the newer Superman comics.

And it's great that DC finally brings back all those pre-crisis concepts. Because those were the cornerstones that made Superman awesome and unique. Post-crisis SUperman was just your other superhero.

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Old 12-02-2008, 11:55 AM   #43
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Default Re: Superman Reboot theory.

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Clark Kent was never as "bumbling" as Reeve in the comics. But you don't know that, you just know the newer Superman comics.

And it's great that DC finally brings back all those pre-crisis concepts. Because those were the cornerstones that made Superman awesome and unique. Post-crisis SUperman was just your other superhero.
Post-Crisis Superman had some very cool elements. And even gave us one of the best runs on a Superman title (Rucka on Adventures of Superman). That interpretation of Superman shouldn't be knocked down just like the Silver Age and Donner interpretations shouldn't.

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Old 12-02-2008, 12:04 PM   #44
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That's highly unlikely. If Brainiac is revamped, then the stories involving the previous Brainiacs are too. Same with Zod. Same with the Phantom Zone killings. Maybe even the same with the Matrix Supergirl.
Those stories still happened. The previous Brainiacs still happened, they were just drones for the true Brainiac. Superman still killed Zod, The OMAC Project which is a part of Infinite Crisis portrayed Superman as still regretful of killing the Phantom Zone criminals. Linda Danvers/Matrix appeared just recently in Reign in Hell.

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And once again, whether it happened or not isn't what I'm getting at.
You're going off on them though.

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Which is completely irrelevant to my argument. If people like Pa to be alive in the comic books, they're going to dislike the fact that he's no longer part of the on-going series.
He's still an integral part of the Superman mythos. It's not like Pa died before Clark became Superman.

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Seriously? Your opinion is a fact? Wow.
Yes it is.

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Hardly. I'm making a point, that you have yet to go anywhere near.
You're not making your point clearly. The way your presenting your point is as if anything that is Silver Age is automatically dumb.

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He's the company's Executive Editor. I assume everything gets passt him before it reaches paper and/or shelves.
Point taken.

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How can I make this clear enough for you to see what I'm saying? Let's see:
People like businessman Luthor. They don't like mad scientist Luthor. Luthor is now a full-blown mad scientist. To these people, it doesn't matter if he was once a businessman in this continuity, because they don't like the Luthor they read about now.
So these people don't like progression but want everything to stay the same?

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But in this context, the connection between the concept and the writing is irrelevant. It's not about how good the stories are, it's about how much I care to read a Superman story where, say, Clark is invisible. Or how turned off I get when I see Jor-El's giant head.

I don't care how well-written -as I've heard- Grey's Anatomy is, because I have no interest in a soap-opera hospital drama.
I'd say that TV show genres and concepts used in comics are very different things.

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I haven't so much as referred to my personal opinion on Silver Age concepts, let alone disdain the pre-Crisis era (and that's a gross generalization, considering that I find Golden Age Superman incredibly compelling). I'm making a very simple point that with most post-Crisis concepts thrown out of the window, it's perfectly understandable for post-Crisis fans not to be nearly as excited about Superman anymore.
This argument is getting nowhere.

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Old 12-02-2008, 12:12 PM   #45
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Default Re: Superman Reboot theory.

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Originally Posted by hippie_hunter View Post
Post-Crisis Superman had some very cool elements. And even gave us one of the best runs on a Superman title (Rucka on Adventures of Superman). That interpretation of Superman shouldn't be knocked down just like the Silver Age and Donner interpretations shouldn't.
The only thing I liked was the "Exile" arc.

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Old 12-02-2008, 01:51 PM   #46
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Default Re: Superman Reboot theory.

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Just ignore Superman Returns then. My hatred of the Schumaker films and Catwoman doesn't ruin my enjoyment of the Burton Batman films even though they're a part of those movies continuity.
Oh, I do. I've just lived in fear for the past 2 years that they would try to work in stuff from SR into the comic book continuity. In order to truly get SR out of my head is ignore these boards!

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But I like the bumbling Clark. In my opinion, it kinda enhances the love between Lois and Clark because only she essentially gets to see the true Clark Kent that no one else gets to see.
To each his own on Clark then. I've just never liked the bumbling Clark- he's just goofy. I'm just not laughing at him.

Interesting point- as good as Johns writing has been, I think Busiek's stuff was better.

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Old 12-02-2008, 03:11 PM   #47
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Default Re: Superman Reboot theory.

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Oh, I do. I've just lived in fear for the past 2 years that they would try to work in stuff from SR into the comic book continuity. In order to truly get SR out of my head is ignore these boards!



To each his own on Clark then. I've just never liked the bumbling Clark- he's just goofy. I'm just not laughing at him.

Interesting point- as good as Johns writing has been, I think Busiek's stuff was better.
I personally found Busiek to be rather underwhelming and was annoyed whenever he wrote Chris Kent's dialogue.

I find Robinson to be much better. I loved his use of Krypto. And I can't wait for Rucka to take over Action Comics.

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Old 12-02-2008, 03:18 PM   #48
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Default Re: Superman Reboot theory.

Busiek used to be fantastic. Now he is just about unreadable. His Aquaman and Trinity runs were/are unreadable.

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Old 12-02-2008, 03:21 PM   #49
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Default Re: Superman Reboot theory.

His Superman run post-Camelot was just as unreadable. A pity, for the man who once wrote "Secret Identity".

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Old 12-02-2008, 03:23 PM   #50
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His Superman run post-Camelot was just as unreadable. A pity, for the man who once wrote "Secret Identity".
I agree.

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