Discussion: Education

[Hobgoblin]

Originally Posted by Nitehawk013

Too much dumbing down because teachers don't want to make little Billy feel dumb when he can't get anythign right. Don't use red ink, you'll give them a complex. Don't pass out F's, you'll stifle their creativity.

Thats right, I forgot the red ink thing. I heard a teacher in college say that and I was amazed. He called it psychologically scarring for a student to see red ink on thier papers, saying it reminded them of blood.

We're all adults, man, not kindergartners. We can handle seeing red ink on paper.

[Paradoxium]

Originally Posted by SuBe

Add competition to the Equation. Just like any other business, People follow the Money, if one school is doing better, parents will want their kids there. Why dumb down all kids to make it even?

4 TeH Equality lulz.

We are the borg, we are diversity, we are equal, we are cognitive dissonance... resistance is racism

Anyways they need to streamline college programs from 4 years to say 2 years.

[Marx]

Originally Posted by Nitehawk013

Too much dumbing down because teachers don't want to make little Billy feel dumb when he can't get anythign right. Don't use red ink, you'll give them a complex. Don't pass out F's, you'll stifle their creativity.

Originally Posted by BlackLantern

We need to re-introduce shame and failure back into schools

I completely agree.

[Paradoxium]

Failure should not be seen as a bad thing, that's how a lot of people learn. Of course if they don't understand this utility, then yea that's a problem.

[BlackLantern]

^^^that's what I meant....I also think, kids are a lot smarter, the idea needs to be put across that what they are learning will be practical in the real world

[Paradoxium]

Schools in many ways teach a form of risk aversion; how failure is unacceptable. In real life this translate a bunch of people who want all the benefits (pay and freedom) that risk takers gain, and none of the potential consequences, harm and bad effects.

Wanting to have it all, as if they are entitled to it because they played it safe. Reminds me a lot of overpaid blood sucking public/government jobs.

[Malice]

You learn infinately more, by the act, and failing at it, then succeeding.

I believe it was Edison that said, he did not fail 1000 times to invent the incandescent lightbulb, and found 1000 ways that is would not work.

I like schools as they are now. (1st thru 12th grade)

I believe the teachers need to make sure they teach a subject. Public school, is meant to teach a broad amount of information. Math, Science, Languages, Music, Athletics, Writing, Literature, Arts, you name it. Its meant to create a broad pallet to give the student exposure to alot...for a reason. I am all for teaching ALOT in school.

College, is meant to take the broad knowledge that you know, and refine it to one or two subjects. You make the person much more effective at a specific topic/skill/genre.

We all know the parents have to be involved, but we cant address that, because we cant.

We are speaking to something we can affect. Thru policies, or even LACK of policies.

[SuBe]

From the Communist Manifesto

The 10 Measures of Communism

And how will the proletariat use their political clout to wrest capital away from the capitalists? With the 10 measures Marx and Engels laid out in 1848. As the master communists aver, the exact implementation will vary slightly from county to country, but will follow the general thrust of the measures.

Here are the 10 measures the proletariat will use to bring about the full realization of the communist utopian dream, once they have the political power:

Abolition of property in land and application of all rents of land to public purposes.

A heavy progressive or graduated income tax.

Abolition of all rights of inheritance.

Confiscation of the property of all emigrants and rebels.

Centralization of credit in the banks of the state, by means of a national bank with state capital and an exclusive monopoly.

Centralization of the means of communication and transport in the hands of the state.

Extension of factories and instruments of production owned by the state; the bringing into cultivation of waste lands, and the improvement of the soil generally in accordance with a common plan.

Equal obligation of all to work. Establishment of industrial armies, especially for agriculture.

Combination of agriculture with manufacturing industries; gradual abolition of all the distinction between town and country by a more equable distribution of the populace over the country.

Free education for all children in public schools. Abolition of children's factory labor in its present form. Combination of education with industrial production, etc.

Saving the Best for Last?

[Nitehawk013]

Hmm...those sound pretty familiar. And yet people say those of us who say McCarthy was right are just crazy.

[SuBe]

Originally Posted by Nitehawk013

Hmm...those sound pretty familiar. And yet people say those of us who say McCarthy was right are just crazy.

Does being the only sane man in a room make you crazy?

[Nitehawk013]

What is crazy is how many people just happily embrace all things Communist becaus eit means they will get "free" handouts.

Sad pathetic children.

[SuBe]

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB123604286020215187.html

Great Article on How Democrats are working to get rid of School Vouchers, and how this affects the Classmates of Obama's Children.

[The Incredible Hulk]

Originally Posted by Malice

I agree...
The dumbing down of classes because of a few kids, hurts the majority.

welcome to America, where everything gets dumbed down for the dumbest people in the country.

[The Incredible Hulk]

Originally Posted by BlackLantern

We need to re-introduce shame and failure back into schools

and wedgies....

[SuperT]

Anyways they need to streamline college programs from 4 years to say 2 years.

Uh what? Most us aren't even finishing in four years, what makes you think we'd finish in two?!

[The Incredible Hulk]

Originally Posted by SuperT

Uh what? Most us aren't even finishing in four years, what makes you think we'd finish in two?!

because they load you up with BS elective and required courses that have no bearing on what you'd be doing in the real world. If you go to college for a business degree, then you just take business courses. You dont take English Lit, foreign languages, calculus, psychology and all the other crap they throw at you for the sake of bilking more tuition out of you.

[SuperT]

You dont take [b]English, foreign languages[b], calculus, psychology and all the other crap they throw at you.

If you're a business major I would think that English and Foreign Language would be pretty mandatory.

I'd actually think English should be pretty mandatory for most majors.

[dnno1]

Originally Posted by Malice

(I looked and didn't see a thread of this topic....so if there was...it was really buried, regardless, time to revisit it.)

OK...we have problems with Education. I know Kel, who is a Teacher, can give you some points.

I see a number of problems and ways to get them solved, at least partially.

1) Remove the Fed from the equation
Take the Federal Government out of the Education business. Instead of having them mandate things and force the states to do it, follow the way it was originally designed. States Rights. Let the states handle it. The Fed and give the States funding, and let it end there. As part of it, get rid of the Sec of Education position, unless you have that position to help each state communicate with other states.

When you have each state working its own solution, you will have unique innovations. The Federal Government stifles innovation thru policies and the like. Without the Fed involved, each state is able to try different unique ways to get the job done. This is what I want. This will then allow each state to make adjustments.

2) Un-handcuff the teachers
Let the teachers teach the subject, not the test. I think performing number 1, will start to allow this.

Those are the first things I came up with...I am sure more will come.

You just suggested some solutions. You need to list the problems.

[Hobgoblin]

Originally Posted by The Incredible Hulk

because they load you up with BS elective and required courses that have no bearing on what you'd be doing in the real world. If you go to college for a business degree, then you just take business courses. You dont take English Lit, foreign languages, calculus, psychology and all the other crap they throw at you for the sake of bilking more tuition out of you.

Frankly, I'm glad that colleges make us take extra courses, it makes us well rounded. We should learn as much about the world as possible, not just the minimum needed to get by.

[The Incredible Hulk]

Originally Posted by Demogoblin

Frankly, I'm glad that colleges make us take extra courses, it makes us well rounded. We should learn as much about the world as possible, not just the minimum needed to get by.

that's what K - 12 is for.

[SuperT]

Originally Posted by Demogoblin

Frankly, I'm glad that colleges make us take extra courses, it makes us well rounded. We should learn as much about the world as possible, not just the minimum needed to get by.

I totally agree. I love taking my classes that have to do with my major, but I've had a blast in a lot of my elective classes I've taken as well.

I also think cutting down college to just two years is not that great of an idea because I think college is so much more then just going and taking classes. That's like a whole life in itself and those four years help you grow and mature as a person.

I couldn't imagine just going to college for two years, getting a degree and joining the legitmate workforce at twenty. o_0 There's just so much you miss out on.

[SuBe]

Fun < Productivity.

[The Incredible Hulk]

Originally Posted by SuperT

If you're a business major I would think that English and Foreign Language would be pretty mandatory.



I'd actually think English should be pretty mandatory for most majors.

English is a building block course that should be taught and mastered at the lower levels of education. It shouldnt be a college subject unless its some advanced class that is relevant to a major. (I said English Lit for the record). And I've never had the ocassion to use anything learned in a college English class in either the business or legal worlds. The day I have to compose a sonnet or decipher the third act of Othello, I'll be sure to let you know.

[SuperT]

Originally Posted by SuBe

Fun < Productivity.

Yes, let's all just be mindless drones that just get up, go work/school, eat, study go to bed.

Nothing else in between!

[SuBe]

Originally Posted by SuperT

Yes, let's all just be mindless drones that just get up, go work/school, eat, study go to bed.

Nothing else in between!

I graduated High School, and went into the Marine Corps. I don't see a reason to reserve 4 years of your life for Fun, when there are things for you to do. I won't ever mandate laws against it, but it's a personal belief.