Discussion: Education

[WompuM]

I don't think so. If these parents would bother, wouldn't they be taking steps now to take their children out of failing schools?

[Carcharodon]

Originally Posted by WompuM

I don't think so. If these parents would bother, wouldn't they be taking steps now to take their children out of failing schools?

Yeah, because parents in low-income communities have so much choice, right? It's the parents' laziness that's to blame. Besides, the good schools have infinite resources and funding. They can totally take the overflow.

We can look at your solution one of two ways:

1) Parents really DO tend to be as lazy as you say (which I still believe to be ********), in which case very few children would actually make the switch. How is the problem fixed, again?

2) Parents DON'T adhere to your assumption, and a large volume of children flood the so-called "good" schools, leading to highly increased student-to-teacher ratios and an overall lowering of the quality of education in general.

Either the plan doesn't work at all (i.e., the problem still largely exists), or it becomes successful enough to cripple itself.

[SuBe]

If they have Vouchers that follow the students, and Funding increases or decreases depending on student Population, then it would be easier for Poor Families to get their Kid to what ever school they wanted.

[Carcharodon]

Originally Posted by SuBe

If they have Vouchers that follow the students, and Funding increases or decreases depending on student Population, then it would be easier for Poor Families to get their Kid to what ever school they wanted.

I definitely think they should re-evaluate school funding policies across the board. Hell, it might actually be cheaper and more effective to just improve the quality of the schools we already have.

[Carcharodon]

Also, what do you guys think of No Child Left Behind? I'm really interested to see what Kel has to say about it.

[SuBe]

Originally Posted by Carcharodon

I definitely think they should re-evaluate school funding policies across the board. Hell, it might actually be cheaper and more effective to just improve the quality of the schools we already have.

Yes, so would I, but if we learned anything from these Bank Bailouts, and Auto Bailouts, and AIG bailouts: You can't put money into a Black Hole and expect a Rainbow.

[Kelly]

Originally Posted by Carcharodon

Also, what do you guys think of No Child Left Behind? I'm really interested to see what Kel has to say about it.

Well, basically NCLB IS leaving children behind. Those that are gifted and talented.....in order for states to hit the mark on their "state made" tests, they are dumbing down the curriculum, and tests so that the kids can pass, move forward, graduate and become stupid graduates. So as we pick up and carry the special services students, we are forgetting about the GT students, because YES they are passing with everyone else, but they ARE NOT being challenged.....and we are now in a "brain drain" scenario of students who have everything spooned fed to them, absolutely no desire to take initiative, and always asking...."Do we have to do the critical thinking questions?" Sooo, in short, we are ahead of the world in education until our kids hit 5th grade, and while we are trying not to leave children behind here in the U.S.....the rest of the world from 6th grade on, are leaving us behind.

[Franklin Richards]

Education in Texas is about to move back to the Bronze Age.


Texas : Saved to Doomed in just 6 hours.

Well, that was fast.

Texas Board of Education creationist Barbara Cargill today proposed an amendment to the science standards saying that teachers have to tell their students there are different estimates for the age of the Universe. This is not even a veiled attempt to attack the Big Bang model of the Universe, which clearly, and through multiple lines of evidence, indicates the Universe is 13.7 +/- 0.12 billion years old.

So Ms. Cargill is right, if she means that "different estimates" range from 13.58 to 13.82 (given one standard deviation) billion years old.

But she doesn’t mean that at all, does she? If you read her website, you’ll see she’s an out-and-out creationist. She has a large number of, um, factual errors on her site that are clearly right out of the Creationist Obscurational Handbook.

Anyway, her antiscience amendment passed 11 - 3.

So tomorrow that will go to the final vote on whether it will be added to the standards or not. With such a majority voting to pass it along, it looks like it will pass, and Texas students will get their chance to learn that the Universe is 6000 years old, and when they try to get a job or do anything later in life, they will be routinely laughed at.

That’s great, Texas! Keep on keepin’ on.

Check out her website too. Great reading. NOT.

[Hobgoblin]

Jack Cafferty seems like a fear monger sometimes but I like a lot of what he says in this book excerpt.

http://www.cnn.com/2009/LIVING/03/30...ols/index.html

Below is an excerpt from CNN commentator Jack Cafferty's new book, "Now or Never." Cafferty appears daily in "The Situation Room" on CNN from 4 to 7 p.m. ET.
In his new book, "Now or Never," Jack Cafferty says our schools don't measure up.

In his new book, "Now or Never," Jack Cafferty says our schools don't measure up.

(CNN) -- Call it another piece of evidence that this once great nation of ours is crumbling: Half of us believe our schools deserve a C or a D for the job they do preparing kids for higher education and making a go of it as grownups in the work force.

So said an Associated Press survey in summer 2008. The AP reported U.S. kids are scoring in the bottom half of the pack when measured against kids from other nations. President Obama's Department of Education (DOE) brain trust has their homework cut out for them if they plan on boosting the grades our schools earn while educating our kids.

Getting our kids through school has become a challenging, complex job that most folks say must begin at home with discipline, parental guidance, and closer attention to our kids' needs.

Obama said it simply in his final debate with John McCain: Unplug those video games, mom and dad, put other distractions away, and get down to work with your kids. Here's a guy who had no father around, basically; who was raised by a single white mother (helped by his white grandmother), sometimes on food stamps; and who became a star at Harvard Law School. So it can be done.
'Now or Never'
Jack's new book: "Now or Never: Getting Down to the Business of Saving Our American Dream"
Excerpt: Cafferty: 'Living a lie and a scary double life' »

We've witnessed the decline of the importance of schooling in far too many homes. Learning must be a top priority for parents. But in today's brutal economy, breadwinners are forced to work two jobs, two parents sweat to keep their jobs and homes, and the kids get left unsupervised. They go online, text their pals, stare at the tube (or YouTube), and play video games. They're not dashing out to the public library to research renewable fuels or Renaissance history.

One major bone of contention among parents and educators was Bush's 2001 No Child Left Behind (NCLB) Act, whose focus was squarely on standardized, multiple-choice test scores in Math and English rather than on the quality (and deeper grasp by the student) of the curriculum. Video Cafferty discusses book on "The Situation Room" »

Soon Congress was seeking authorization to pay bonuses up to $10,000 to reward outstanding teachers whose students excel -- one incentive to stem the flight of top teachers from our schools. Even in grades one through three, Bush's NCLB got into trouble. Reading First, the much-touted $1 billion-a-year reading program and NCLB cornerstone for 1.5 million kids in 5,200 schools, proved ineffective.
Don't Miss

* Jack's book 'Now or Never'
* Learn more about Jack Cafferty
* The Situation Room

Worse, in 2006, the DOE's inspector general found that several top program advisers benefited financially by steering states and school districts to certain tests and texts tied to Reading First materials. The result: Congress slashed Reading First's $1 billion funding in 2007 to $400 million. Our kids paid quite a price for that mess.

I did an April 2008 "Cafferty File" piece that began, "The education crisis in America's largest cities is assuming frightening proportions. Only about half of all students who attend the main school systems in the 50 largest cities actually graduate from high school." It was a "coin toss," according to the non-profit Editorial Projects in Education (EPE) Research Center. Nationally, the figure for dropouts was nearly one in three. The group's founding chairman, former Secretary of State Colin Powell, called the situation-1.2 million dropouts a year-"not just a crisis, but a catastrophe." Main school districts in Detroit, Indianapolis, Cleveland, and Baltimore all had graduation averages below 40 percent, Detroit's being 25 percent.

The real threat to the United States, I said in another piece on "dropout factories," where less than 60 percent graduate (one in 10 schools qualify), is that our kids can't cut it against kids schooled in today's emerging economies. How can they compete globally, I asked, when barely half of the kids in our largest cities even graduate?

Aron from Toronto wrote, "You're kidding, right? That ship has sailed. As one who traveled 200,000 miles on business last year, I can tell you for certain that the world places no hope, no weight upon America's youth making even a future ripple in the global waters ... Having visited the top public schools in India and China, I can assure you that the future for America's youth is much bleaker than even the greatest skeptics could imagine."

One underlying problem in public education is that the system has morphed into this giant government bureaucracy that sucks up billions and billions of dollars for everything except teaching children reading, writing, and arithmetic (and sciences). We pay school administrators hundreds of thousands of dollars to preside over these failed enterprises that produce their share of functional illiterates.

Beyond imposing some learning-related discipline at home, parents might also seize the initiative by getting more involved: serving on the school board; volunteering, time permitting, to work at the local school with kids who need extra help. When that mind set of involvement spreads through the populace, change is more likely.

I've asked many "Cafferty File" questions (all drawn from the news) about our schools that never fail to trigger intense viewer concern: Birth control pills and maternity leave for pregnant girls? A ban on all school junk food? Mandatory Breathalyzer tests at school dances? In that instance, a New Jersey superintendent said recent events had left him no choice. His program's zero-tolerance message about alcohol was a way to improve the atmosphere for education.
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As Mark from Philadelphia wrote, "Having just been a high school student less than a year ago, I can tell you how rampant the alcohol and drug problem among our youth is. I can literally only name one peer of mine who has not done marijuana, and not one who has not drunk alcohol. This is just one necessary step in reforming our schools."

One "File" piece was inspired by a Chicago district that allowed the U.S. Marine Corps to run one of its high schools. Outrageous? Not to my viewers. Thomas in Florida wrote, "A high school where the students are required to be respectful of authority, that fosters an environment of personal discipline, academic and physical achievement -- sounds preposterous to me. You must be kidding. Why, before you know it, our nation might be churning out mannered, intelligent young adults again. Madison Avenue, Hollywood, and Wal-Mart would never stand for that." Greg in California wrote, "My daughter starts high school next year. Can they build one out here in Southern California by then?"

[Paradoxium]

Detroit parents want DPS teachers, officials jailed over low test scores

Impassioned parents demanded jail time for educators and district officials Saturday following the release of test scores that showed fourth- and eighth-graders had the worst math scores in the nation.

City students took the National Assessment of Educational Progress test this year, and 69 percent of fourth-graders scored below the basic level in math and 77 percent of eighth-graders scored below basic.

The Detroit scores on the progress test were the lowest in its 40-year history. The sample of students included 900 of Detroit's 6,000 fourth-graders and 1,000 of the district's 6,000 eighth-graders.

Sharlonda Buckman, CEO of the Detroit Parent Network, called for jailing and civil lawsuits against anyone in the city's educational system that is not doing his or her share to help properly educate children.

"Somebody needs to go to jail," she said in a tearful address to 500 parents gathered Saturday for the organization's annual breakfast forum. "Somebody needs to pay for this. Somebody needs to go to jail, and it shouldn't be the kids."

Detroit Public Schools Emergency Financial Manager Robert Bobb told the crowd the test scores weren't the result of children who were incompetent or parents who didn't care. He blamed the scores on the district not doing its job.

[Morg]

"Somebody needs to go to jail," she said in a tearful address to 500 parents gathered Saturday for the organization's annual breakfast forum. "Somebody needs to pay for this. Somebody needs to go to jail, and it shouldn't be the kids."

that would be the parents, if they actually get off their lazy ass and talk and teach the kids with the homework but nooooo! The teachers have to do everything

[Kelly]

How about...

1. Administration overseeing the teaching going on in the classroom, we call these evaluations...
2. Are the teachers using effective teaching methods, and classroom management methods so that the kids have the chance to learn...
3. What is the attendance of the students that failed...
4. What is the discipline record of the students that failed...
5. Did the students turn in homework, dailywork, participate in class, checking those that failed...

IF....a student has passed a teacher's class, yet fails the test....THEN you question the teacher only. Because something has happened....
1. the teacher is giving grades...
2. the teacher is not effectively teaching...

The teacher has a problem here.

Looks to me like there is very little administrative oversight going on, and I would be doing a few things as superintendent.

1. First answering the questions above...
2. If it is deemed to be a problem with the teacher, put the teacher on a growth plan....if that does not work, they are fired.

pretty simple to me...

[SuperFerret]

Whatever happened to children just being stupid and everyone accepting it?

[Paroxysm]

Originally Posted by SuperFerret

Whatever happened to children just being stupid and everyone accepting it?

I don't know? I think that died out in the 80's.

[dnno1]

I don't really have anything to say on this topic but Pamela Rogers Turner did deserve what she got (and she was gorgeous too).

[Kelly]

Originally Posted by SuperFerret

Whatever happened to children just being stupid and everyone accepting it?

I don't accept stupidity or ignorance in my classroom....doesn't compute.

[bell110]

I agree with Morg, jail the parents.

I find it funny they want JAIL time for this. I can't even get my head around that type of thinking. Judging by the Detroit Parenting Network's response, maybe people from Detroit are just dumb.

[Kelly]

Yeah, because jailing the parents will automatically fix the situation...

[bell110]

No, but it would be an awesome twist to a silly situation.

[echostation]

sending teachers and parents to jail is such a stupid concept... they need to pray, and pray well, by grace they will be saved...

[echostation]

sending teachers and parents to jail is such a stupid concept... they need to pray, and pray well, by grace they will be saved...

[Paradoxium]

How about sending politicians to jail if they don't balance the budget?

[Kelly]

Originally Posted by Paradoxium

How about sending politicians to jail if they don't balance the budget?

Oh hell yeah, we put court reporters in jail if they don't finish their job in a timely manner.....

[bell110]

How about we put SHH posters in jail if they use emoticons

[Kelly]

Originally Posted by bell110

How about we put SHH posters in jail if they use emoticons

Opens cell door......