Where does most of TDK's critisism come from?

[mjbull23]

For me, the cliffhanger ending left a lot of open ended questions. The main question I have is, how does Jim Gordon try to rationalize Harvey Dent's death at the hands of Batman? Just several nights before, Dent was seen appearing on News Reports claiming how "He trusted Batman to do the right thing and save his a**". Obviously alluding to the fact that there was an alliance forged between the two men.

How then does Gordon explain away that just a few nights later, Batman murders Dent?

Do you think there might be some very serious questions asked by investigators and the media?

Mostly I am curious to see how Nolan broaches this topic in the third installment (If it is broached at all). This is a huge responsibility that Batman has entrusted Gordon with. Essentially he's telling gordon, "Ok, you tell them I killed the most popular public figure this city has ever known, and I want you to contrive a story and fabricate a motive as to why I would kill this man".

Heavy Stuff.

[RachelDawes]

I'm curious to see Gordon's explanation for Dent's death, too, but I don't anticipate getting one. He could just reverse their roles and say that Batman lost his mind and kidnapped Dent and Gordon's family, planning to take revenge for law enforcement's corruption and inability to stop the Joker. He was going to shoot Jimmy Gordon when Dent threw himself at him, knocking them both over the edge, and Dent was killed. Just throwing that out there.

I wouldn't relish having to be Gordon and come up with a convincing story on the spur of the moment.

[Travesty]

The thing I never understood, was why Batman even took the blame? He didn't kill Two-Face on purpose, he was saving Gordons son, for crying out loud. They both fell over, it was just Batman who survived the fall. I understand that they wanted to save Dent's integrity, and show Gotham that there can be a "real" hero in Gotham besides Batman, but it just screws up everything. Batman told Gordon to "call it in". Why? That's the dumbest thing I have ever heard! If Gordon is going to lie about that, then why not just say Two-Face fell over the side, and Batman was never there. Now, Batman's a villain to the cops, because he made Gordon "turn him in". In my eyes, The Joker still won, and it doesn't explain that some cops survived, and know about Dent's true side(Two-Face). IMO, the ending is just a mess....

[RachelDawes]

He wasn't just taking the blame for Dent's death, but for the people Harvey killed. Those crimes couldn't remain unsolved, so Batman just stepped up and said he did it. Batman was already unpopular with quite a few Gothamites so his being tabbed as a murderer wasn't as big a deal as Dent being revealed to be one.

[DarKJediKnight]

Originally Posted by Travesty

The thing I never understood, was why Batman even took the blame? He didn't kill Two-Face on purpose, he was saving Gordons son, for crying out loud. They both fell over, it was just Batman who survived the fall. I understand that they wanted to save Dent's integrity, and show Gotham that there can be a "real" hero in Gotham besides Batman, but it just screws up everything. Batman told Gordon to "call it in". Why? That's the dumbest thing I have ever heard! If Gordon is going to lie about that, then why not just say Two-Face fell over the side, and Batman was never there. Now, Batman's a villain to the cops, because he made Gordon "turn him in". In my eyes, The Joker still won, and it doesn't explain that some cops survived, and know about Dent's true side(Two-Face). IMO, the ending is just a mess....

Ummm.. Maybe you don't like the film 'cause you don't get the ending?

[Sam Fisher]

I don't hate TDK. I just hate the fanboys who procliam it the greatest movie ever. It's not.

[Alex Logan]

Originally Posted by Sam Fisher

I don't hate TDK. I just hate the fanboys who procliam it the greatest movie ever. It's not.

But it is pretty damn good.

[Sam Fisher]

Originally Posted by Alex Logan

But it is pretty damn good.

There's no denying that. But it was still overhyped.

[Alex Logan]

Originally Posted by Sam Fisher

There's no denying that. But it was still overhyped.

Okay, maybe. But... I've got challange for you. Name ten films in the past ten years that are BETTER then TDK.

[C. Lee]

Originally Posted by Nuffsaid

Especially in the internet. For example,

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0499549/...read/147189150

There are also Dark Knight hate threads at the Casablanca boards, Lawrence of Arabia boards, the Matrix boards, Taken, X-men Origins, even the last temptaion of Christ board.

The internet is the perfect place for people who hate anything and everything to get together and spout thier hate. It doesn't matter what it is for most (there are some who only direct thier hate at whatever the majority of other people like).....they just happen to poor pathetic lives that have no other meaning for them except to put other things down and attempt to make others feel bad about liking something.

[Sam Fisher]

Originally Posted by Alex Logan

Okay, maybe. But... I've got challange for you. Name ten films in the past ten years that are BETTER then TDK.

Battlefield Earth IS the best movie of the past decade.

Spoiler!!! Click to Read!:

[Travesty]

Originally Posted by Alex Logan

Okay, maybe. But... I've got challange for you. Name ten films in the past ten years that are BETTER then TDK.

1. Fight Club
2. The Matrix
3. The Sixth Sense
4. Unbreakable
5. X-Men2
6. Oceans 11
7. Gladiator
8. Training Day
9. Memento
10. LOTR trilogy(that's three movies)
11. Lost in Translation
12. Crash
13. The Departed
14. Blow
15. There Will be Blood
16. No Country for Old Men
17. The Bourne series(that's three movies)
18. Casino Royal

Those are just off the top of my head. If I think harder, I could come up with a lot more movies that are better then TDK.

[Sam Fisher]

Originally Posted by Travesty

1. Fight Club
2. The Matrix
3. The Sixth Sense
4. Unbreakable
5. X-Men2
6. Oceans 11
7. Gladiator
8. Training Day
9. Memento
10. LOTR trilogy(that's three movies)
11. Lost in Translation
12. Crash
13. The Departed
14. Blow
15. There Will be Blood
16. No Country for Old Men
17. The Bourne series(that's three movies)
18. Casino Royal

Those are just off the top of my head. If I think harder, I could come up with a lot more movies that are better then TDK.

I agree with those{well, except for the M. Night movies}.

[Travesty]

Originally Posted by Sam Fisher

I agree with those{well, except for the M. Night movies}.

[Timstuff]

Originally Posted by Bunker

Don't even try to justify the cretins that are IMDb posters. What a hellhole full of stupidity.

IMDB: you'll never find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy.

[Alex Logan]

Originally Posted by Travesty

1. Fight Club
2. The Matrix
3. The Sixth Sense
4. Unbreakable
5. X-Men2
6. Oceans 11
7. Gladiator
8. Training Day
9. Memento
10. LOTR trilogy(that's three movies)
11. Lost in Translation
12. Crash
13. The Departed
14. Blow
15. There Will be Blood
16. No Country for Old Men
17. The Bourne series(that's three movies)
18. Casino Royal

Those are just off the top of my head. If I think harder, I could come up with a lot more movies that are better then TDK.

Are you serious? Better then TDK? There are only a few on that list that are just as GOOD as TDK.

Originally Posted by Sam Fisher

I agree with those{well, except for the M. Night movies}.

Better? Wow, I can see I've wasted my time here.

Originally Posted by Timstuff

IMDB: you'll never find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy.

You win!

[Travesty]

Originally Posted by Alex Logan

Are you serious? Better then TDK? There are only a few on that list that are just as GOOD as TDK.

Well, seeing as how this is a Batman forum, I'm sure to see a lot of bias towards TDK, but yes, I'm completely serious.

And on a side note: Why would you "challenge" anybody to list of 10 movies, if you already think TDK is better then anything in 10 years? If you like it, then that's your opinion. I think the movie is total mess, deviated from the spirit of the character, and is no way, one of the best movies of the past 10 years. That's just my opinion on it, just as you have yours. I don't understand why you're trying to make us look foolish, or say we've "wasted [your] time"? Is everybody in the world supposed to think TDK is the best movie ever? Now, I think TDK is a good movie, but it's far from a good Batman movie.

[Alex Logan]

Originally Posted by Travesty

Well, seeing as how this is a Batman forum, I'm sure to see a lot of bias towards TDK, but yes, I'm completely serious.

Well, that's the problem, I'm not biased in anyway. There are many films that are just as good as TDK, but better? Really? I'm sorry, but some of the ones on your list don't even deserve to share the same shelf space as TDK.

[Travesty]

Originally Posted by Alex Logan

Well, that's the problem, I'm not biased in anyway. There are many films that are just as good as TDK, but better? Really? I'm sorry, but some of the ones on your list don't even deserve to share the same shelf space as TDK.

I think all of those movies I listed had better acting, pace, originality, and playability then TDK. And of course, this is just a matter of opinion. You could think David Bowie is the best musical artist ever, but I could say his work isn't "worthy" to sit next to my album collection. Sure, Bowie has talent, and he's critically acclaimed, but that doesn't mean I have to like his music, or even think it's good.

[Alex Logan]

Originally Posted by Travesty

I think all of those movies I listed had better acting, pace, originality, and playability then TDK. And of course, this is just a matter of opinion. You could think David Bowie is the best musical artist ever, but I could say his work isn't "worthy" to sit next to my album collection. Sure, Bowie has talent, and he's critically acclaimed, but that doesn't mean I have to like his music, or even think it's good.

Originality, is a given, but I'll have to disagree about the rest. And acting? really? Did we see the same film?

[Travesty]

Originally Posted by Alex Logan

Originality, is a given, but I'll have to disagree about the rest. And acting? really? Did we see the same film?

I think this is the reason why I hate debating, or even sharing my opinions on TDK with TDK-fanboys. You think the movie is perfect in every way, and anybody who thinks otherwise is an idiot. Yes, I saw the same TDK as everybody here.

I think the pace of the movie is one of the worst things about it. The entire movie goes from scene to scene to scene to scene, until the credits hit. There is no time for any emotion to sink in, etc. The story isn't bad, it's just that there is to much of it. The movie was 2 stories rolled into one, and I felt it hurt the entire vibe, and made it feel "rushed". And since it felt rushed, you barely heard/felt the score in the background, which seemed to take away form a lot of the emotion that was happening on screen.

The characters: I think there are a ton of things about TDK that took away from the spirit of Batman(ie. no lurking in the shadows, Gotham City, hardly any bat-gadgets, wasn't fond of The Jokers interpretation, no cave/mansion etc). If you take away a lot of things that make Batman Batman, then what's the point in making a Bat-flick? Again, TDK is a good movie, but it isn't a good Batman movie, IMO.

The acting: Sure, some actors did better then others, but that's not to say there weren't faults. I thought Bale did a horrible job at playing Batman in TDK, yet, he did a good job in Begins, but his TDK-Batman was a mess. His Bruce Wayne was good, but his Batman? Not to me. I think Maggie didn't play a good Rachel, and while Heath did a good job at acting, it didn't feel like a good interpretation of The Joker, so I guess you can say I didn't like his portrayal. I also thought Micheal J White, who played Gambol, did a HORRIBLE job, along with the SWAT guys and everybody on the ferries.

So again, I think those movies I listed have better overall acting and pace, which leads me to re-watch those movie more then I will TDK.

[Sam Fisher]

Originally Posted by Alex Logan

Originality, is a given, but I'll have to disagree about the rest. And acting? really? Did we see the same film?

Come on, how can anyone like's Bale's Batman voice?

[Alex Logan]

Originally Posted by Travesty

I think this is the reason why I hate debating, or even sharing my opinions on TDK with TDK-fanboys. You think the movie is perfect in every way, and anybody who thinks otherwise is an idiot. Yes, I saw the same TDK as everybody here.

That's the problem with people like you... you assume everything.

I'm NOT TDK-fanboy, I DON'T think the film is PERFECT and I didn't think your idiot... but after this post I'm really starting to wonder.

Originally Posted by Travesty

I think the pace of the movie is one of the worst things about it. The entire movie goes from scene to scene to scene to scene, until the credits hit. There is no time for any emotion to sink in, etc. The story isn't bad, it's just that there is to much of it. The movie was 2 stories rolled into one, and I felt it hurt the entire vibe, and made it feel "rushed". And since it felt rushed, you barely heard/felt the score in the background, which seemed to take away form a lot of the emotion that was happening on screen.

The characters: I think there are a ton of things about TDK that took away from the spirit of Batman(ie. no lurking in the shadows, Gotham City, hardly any bat-gadgets, wasn't fond of The Jokers interpretation, no cave/mansion etc). If you take away a lot of things that make Batman Batman, then what's the point in making a Bat-flick? Again, TDK is a good movie, but it isn't a good Batman movie, IMO.

The acting: Sure, some actors did better then others, but that's not to say there weren't faults. I thought Bale did a horrible job at playing Batman in TDK, yet, he did a good job in Begins, but his TDK-Batman was a mess. His Bruce Wayne was good, but his Batman? Not to me. I think Maggie didn't play a good Rachel, and while Heath did a good job at acting, it didn't feel like a good interpretation of The Joker, so I guess you can say I didn't like his portrayal. I also thought Micheal J White, who played Gambol, did a HORRIBLE job, along with the SWAT guys and everybody on the ferries.

So again, I think those movies I listed have better overall acting and pace, which leads me to re-watch those movie more then I will TDK.

Some of the movies you listed I wouldn't even waste time waching again. The only thing we agree apon is Maggie.

Originally Posted by Sam Fisher

Come on, how can anyone like's Bale's Batman voice?

You know, when I first heard Bale do the voice in Batman Begins, I was like "What the hell?" Then after realized the reason he was doing the voice that way it didin't bother me anymore. Why does everyone blame Bale? Shouldn't you blame Nolan if you don't like it? Besides, isn't time to get OVER the that issue?

[Travesty]

Originally Posted by Alex Logan

That's the problem with people like you... you assume everything.

I'm NOT TDK-fanboy, I DON'T think the film is PERFECT and I didn't think your idiot... but after this post I'm really starting to wonder.

Oh, pardon me for thinking you were a fanboy, when you're clearly on a TDK forum, and stating that no movie in the past 10 years is better then TDK. And I'm also sorry for assuming you were implying that I didn't know what I was talking about, when you asked if I watched the same TDK as you. How could I get that mixed up?

[Sam Fisher]

Originally Posted by Alex Logan

You know, when I first heard Bale do the voice in Batman Begins, I was like "What the hell?" Then after realized the reason he was doing the voice that way it didin't bother me anymore. Why does everyone blame Bale? Shouldn't you blame Nolan if you don't like it? Besides, isn't time to get OVER the that issue?

Where was I blaming Bale for anything? All I said was his Batman voice was terrible. You act like I'm losing sleep over it.