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View Poll Results: Conspiracies? Fun or Frightening?
Fun 4 40.00%
Frightening 4 40.00%
Ignorance is Bliss 2 20.00%
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Old 04-14-2009, 04:46 PM   #101
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Default Re: Conspiracy about Area 51

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Originally Posted by Raiden View Post
Yes, Black Mesa from Half-Life.
Screw Black Mesa! Aperature Science is where the real toys are at!

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<weeeeeeee!!>

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Old 04-14-2009, 05:22 PM   #102
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Default Re: Conspiracy about Area 51

Darn kids and their gamer speak. Didn't you know gaming reached its pinnacle with Galaga?

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Old 04-14-2009, 09:55 PM   #103
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Default Re: Conspiracy about Area 51

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This is meant to be somewhat a fun thread where people can talk about conspiracies about Area 51 and nay personal experiences associated with it.

Well its there..the Groom Lake facility DOES exist....
Now...what is it for?
It's just a front for the juicier alien conspiracy - Section 14 at Dulce, New Mexico! Keep up the fight, y'all!

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Old 04-14-2009, 10:30 PM   #104
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Default Discussion: Conspiracies and Cover Ups

From Area 51 and 'death squads', to political party wars, 'did a plane hit the pentagon on 9/11', and everything in between. This thread is for ALL THINGS conspiracy and cover up!

Discuss.

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Old 04-14-2009, 10:31 PM   #105
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Default Re: Discussion: Conspiracies and Cover Ups

Thread being configured...please be patient. Thanks!

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Old 04-14-2009, 10:33 PM   #106
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Default Re: Discussion: Conspiracies and Cover Ups

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From Area 51 and 'death squads', to political party wars, 'did a plane hit the pentagon on 9/11', and everything in between.
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Thread being configured...please be patient.

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Old 04-14-2009, 11:38 PM   #107
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Default Re: Cheney's Secret assassination squad

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It doesn't work that way. First the guy is quoted from his speech at the U of M talking about a secret assassination squad. But in this interview he backpedals saying that there were lists that were "cleared through the vice presidents office." A list that's given a stamp of approval does not equate to a "secret assassination squad." It means intelligence community professionals went through and did an assessment of known dangerous persons. Most likely, then some general put his stamp of approval on it and sent it up the chain with all the other paperwork to get a seal of approval.
i spose we'll both have to wait for the book for clarity on the issue, and evidence for it.

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What unaccountability? All that's required is a closed session congressional inquiry. "Clandestine activities" are by no means out of bounds. Would you want someone who's being monitored to know they were being targeted? No, you would want them to remain oblivious so you could track their movements and collect even more information so you can do one of three things. You try to catch the big fish, use the intel to stop impending attacks or you take said individual out because of their past actions and the future danger they pose.
Obviously the specifics of actions may need to be kept secret in some circumstances, however the fact that a government is implementing a policy needs to be made public for any sort of democracy to work. (for example, allowing assassinations in other countries is the policy that must be known - not the specifics of who is targeted if that would breach national security - which In Australia at least is to be determined by the judiciary in a closed court to avoid any exploitation of abuse of such a power.)

We would expect our government to tell us if it planed to crack down on dope use, that way, if we think that's a good thing we can vote them in, we would not expect them to tell us who they are targeting as that would be counter productive - but the fact that they are targeting them needs to be known in a democratic society.


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You're forgetting that our agencies as well as our military are bound to and follow the USC (title 10? title 50 anyone?). The military is even more stringent with it's red tap as it has to follow the LOAC when engaged in combat activities (including black ops). There is a process in place where our operations first go through a legal "filter" where our plans are given the "yay" or "nay" based on our legal obligations. We're the only ones playing by the rules in the fist place!
Ignoring the fact that America has a fairly bad histroy when it comes to "playing by the rules" re international law...

The whole point of Hersch's claim is that one small aspet of the US armed forces has not "played by the rules" - however even if the USC does allow for such blatant disregard for the soverignty of other nations and the rights of people that still does not give them the right, legally or morally, to commit such acts.

I'm not that up on US military law,. but from memory they most sections generally only apply in times of war and won't exonerate military personal from crimes committed outside their jurisdiction. For example: Unless America has declared war with Jordan, any forces who commit domestic crimes in Jordan would face Jordanian Law. (or International Law)


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I agree with you here. However, for some reason I don't believe that a list of high priority targets wouldn't be seen by someone who makes decisions in the intelligence hierarchy. And as far as bringing in officials from target countries, it would depend on the political climate of that country as well as possible corruption. How likely is "hush hush" information to get out and alert the target that they are being watched?
So abiding by laws depends on how much you like the country who has the laws? the US doesn't have anymore authority to disregard another natoins laws than any opther country does.

For instnace what if Iran was assassinating US civilians or military personel in AMerica - and claimed they too were relying upon their own codes of conduct, and had proof that all those assassinated were "bad" or perceived as a threat to Iran - and yet would not offer any information as to who they had killed, or why, or on what evidence - what if these decisons were only made by a very small part of the Iranian government - which not even the President or the Supreme leader knew about. That would Make a mockery of Iran's democracy - the people wouldn't have had a say in such actions at all...

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Agreed. As a member of the armed forces, I assure you I've gone through more red tape in my life than someone trying to do a makeshift daredevil costume.If you really want to know the truth, get a job in government and get a clearance so you can see things for yourself.
but then i couldn't talk about it on the internet...


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While I disagree with your statement on clandestine activities, I agree with you that no one person should make the decisions. That's why there are so many levels in the chain of command.


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Originally Posted by V1P3Rt3Ch View Post
If they are to be trusted with sensitive information, then yes. If they clearly do not meet the criteria, then no. I would not want someone who is not trustworthy enough to handle national security information to have it just because they're a representative. I believe you should have to meet this criteria before even running for a representative position in the government. But that's all just my opinion, take it as you wish.
That's not your choice - You live in a representative democracy - it's the choice of the people that vote - anyway in reality they only every receive the smallest bits of information.


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With this we get to the reason we do clandestine activities in the first place. Perhaps a government is corrupt or they don't have the means to publicly endorse our actions. Pakistan is a perfect example, just today they legalized islamic law within a region due to political pressure caused by attacks from the right-wing militants in that country. So here we have a government, cow tailing to militants in its country, unable to control it's northern "sovereign" regions where known terrorists are taking refuge. So do we let the militants sit pretty and safe while Pakistan waffles on what it wants to do? Or do we do our job, to prevent attacks around the globe by hunting down these dangerous people?
- haven't heard anything about that development in Pakistan yet - But if a government is corrupt there are many ways to encourage reformation - either by ceasing trade - or by giving them more aide (as the US has done for a while now) to ensure their co operation.
Islamic law comes in many foirms of varying degree - if this form is as violent and sexist as the woirse forms we hear about - than i'd naturally be totally opposed to it - However, if it is a more progressive legal system then i see nothing fundamentally wrong with it (although obviously i'd prefer to see a progressive common or civil law system).
That aside - International Law/relations are based, since teh peace of westphalia, on the principle of sovereignty - and while that might not be absolute right it will normally only be breached by the international community to uphold human rights - not to deny them as such assassinations would do.

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Clandestine activities are done for a very political reason, not just to do it because we're America and we think we can strong arm whoever we can. If a government had the means to capture and extradite these individuals, then I agree with you that it should be done publicly. Otherwise, the ends justify the means.
you're going down a very dangerous slipperly slope of moral justification there. especially when the means is murder.

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This is a moral argument. If you see someone getting raped, are you going to intervene and hold that person captive until the cops get there? That would be illegal imprisoning someone as civilians do not have the right to make arrests.
No it's a legal argument. And you're is a flawed analogy. I'm pretty up on the law for citizens arrets - and even in the US you do have the power to restrain people for commiting crimes on private property - provided you have a witness - or to stop a crime - or for self defence (which extends to defending others)
Obviously if you saw someone getting raped you would step in immediately and hold them until police arrived. But if police were already present and about to arrest the man, would you shoot him in the head? what if he hadn't started to rape anyone yet, but had only started to talk about doing it one day, and police were around, would you still shoot him in the head? If you did would you claim you were jkustified because the police hadn't done anything?

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If I know Joe Bombmaker is in a house, just a crossed the boarder, do I let him go because of an imaginary line in the dirt? I wouldn't.
Say you were a TExan cop and he was just over the border in another oklhahoma. You know it's not you're jurisdiction but you go anyway, would you set aside whatever laws normally applied in such circumstance just because you were in another jurisdiction.
would you, instead of arresting him, murder him? or would you contact oklhahoma police and tell them you arrested him?


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Lol, if someone gets put on a "capture or kill" list, they're on it for a reason. That's all I can say about that.
Look i can understand if they die in the process of being taken into custody - it's unfortunate but it happens- especially if they think they're fighting some religious battle. but if domestic police killed everyone instead of investigating charges and having trials etc we'd scream corruption.
Furthermore, in this situation we're talking assasingations - not capturing people - capturing people - although still illegal in other nations - brings about far less of a moral objection.

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And proper intelligence gathering. At least that's the way we do it in the real world.
WE all know about the High standard of intelligence gathering the US has - "oh yeah... see that truck on the satelite photo... that aint a truck thats a mobile chemical weapons factory... oh yeah... Sadaam has WMDs alright this truck... i mean mobile chemical weapons factory proves it"
or "see this mountain... that aint no ordinary mountain... underneath it has caves, with multiple level car parking...a missile launcher...a powerplant... water treatment facility...and Osama Bin Laden on a renal dialysis machine"
.. or back in the cold war "See what looks like satelite dish... that a laser...yep... russians have lasers"

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Now you're talking about psychological profiling of said individuals, something that's already been done by the time someone has been put on a "capture or kill" list.
no i'm talking about addressing the real problems that cause terrorism so other people can be prevented from going down such dark paths.

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Take a few psychology courses mixed with counter-terrorism courses and you'll see where both come into play. But you missed my point.
Obviously you're more informed on this stuff than i am - so informed that you can't even articulate your argument
If you believe profiling is so precise - would you allow police to execute everyone that fits the profile of a possible serial killer? Profiling gives an edge to police investigations but it's never 100% accurate.

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These are not individuals that are willing to talk to you, or listen to what you have to say. If they did, they would hear the outcries for peace from the world and stop their activities.
that sounds like a fairly broad sweaping generalisation similar to ones found in most WWII propaganda about all the people of earth on opposing sides.

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A complete hard line opposite end of the spectrum comparison. What you're saying is that part of the US Military is going on unchecked rogue missions to kill whoever they want. Logistically that's a hard thing to do.

General: "I need bravo company to do this mission!"

Capt: "Uh.. they're ... unavailable... all of them..."

General: "What? Where are they?"

Capt: "Antiquing?"
no i'm saying a small select group is being order to kill people outside their jurisdiction. no completely unchecked, just not checked by the right means.

Your arguments for such illegal activity are so far pretty thin, i look foward to hearing more of them.

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Old 04-14-2009, 11:39 PM   #108
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Default Re: Discussion: Conspiracies and Cover Ups

what the hell? Why did these get merged?
Don't you know us conspiracy nuts hate getting Yolked together!

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Old 04-15-2009, 11:47 AM   #109
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Default Re: Discussion: Conspiracies and Cover Ups

Just goes to show we've got alien reptilian overlords mucking with us.

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Old 04-15-2009, 12:18 PM   #110
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Default Re: Conspiracy about Area 51

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Screw Black Mesa! Aperature Science is where the real toys are at!

(========)

. .|
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. . O
. \_|_/
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. . / \

<weeeeeeee!!>

(========)
I hear their boss GlaDos is a total ***** though

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Old 04-15-2009, 06:53 PM   #111
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Default Re: Discussion: Conspiracies and Cover Ups

No dudes! Section 14 at Dulce, New Mexico!

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Old 04-15-2009, 08:48 PM   #112
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Default Re: Discussion: Conspiracies and Cover Ups

Until I hear it on BOA, I ain't buying it!

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Old 04-16-2009, 03:56 PM   #113
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Default Re: Conspiracy about Area 51

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I want a Metal Gear.

Just so I can look up, and yell...."Metal Gear?!!"

But, this could be the future arms race.

The Arms Race of Weaponized Mechs.
Well if that happens then the only logical conclusion is that we develop the Megazord

VIDEO-CLick to Watch!:

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Old 04-16-2009, 03:59 PM   #114
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the maintence would suck....I could see some chubby guy named 'Art' walking out from under your Mastadon Zord with a wrench and telling you.....'Well you got a blown belt and your filters are shot...we're gonna need to keep 'er overnight'

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Old 04-16-2009, 04:01 PM   #115
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Default Re: Discussion: Conspiracies and Cover Ups

conspiracy theories are fun--I love to see youtube videos, movies and documentaries about them..

and by fun I also mean sad

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Old 04-16-2009, 06:54 PM   #116
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the maintence would suck....I could see some chubby guy named 'Art' walking out from under your Mastadon Zord with a wrench and telling you.....'Well you got a blown belt and your filters are shot...we're gonna need to keep 'er overnight'
You just gotta ruin all the fun .

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Old 04-16-2009, 09:12 PM   #117
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Default Re: Discussion: Conspiracies and Cover Ups

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Just goes to show we've got alien reptilian overlords mucking with us.

VIDEO-CLick to Watch!:

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Old 05-30-2009, 10:30 AM   #118
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Default Re: Conspiracy about Area 51

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Well if that happens then the only logical conclusion is that we develop the Megazord

VIDEO-CLick to Watch!:
I love how no one notices a volcano or giant faults in the middle of Southern California. Plus the way they accompany everything they say with random karate chops.

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Old 05-30-2009, 11:48 AM   #119
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Default Re: Conspiracy about Area 51

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Screw Black Mesa! Aperature Science is where the real toys are at!

(========)

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.| | |

. . O
. \_|_/
. . .|
. . / \

<weeeeeeee!!>

(========)

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Old 06-01-2009, 01:39 PM   #120
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Default Re: Discussion: Conspiracies and Cover Ups

The only conspiracy that I think has any real teeth, is the JFK one. The gov. kinda did that one to theirselves by being so damn secretive about it.

One that kinda makes me laugh is Roswell. I think what crashed was nothing more than a top secret high altitude ballon that was used to monitor nuclear test being conducted in the old USSR. Since it was so top secret, it was hush hush when it crashed, which only added fuel to the fire for an unknowing public.

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Old 06-01-2009, 01:56 PM   #121
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I love how no one notices a volcano or giant faults in the middle of Southern California. Plus the way they accompany everything they say with random karate chops.
and multicolored smoke and pyro

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Old 06-11-2009, 03:50 PM   #122
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Default The New World Order conspiracy

Alot of my peers have been talking about this conspiracy lately, and i dont really know much about it...what is it, exactly? How bogus do you think it is? Is it bogus?

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Old 06-11-2009, 03:54 PM   #123
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Default Re: The New World Order conspiracy

Never heard of it...explain it???

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Old 06-11-2009, 03:58 PM   #124
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Never heard of it...explain it???
Honestly, from what i know of it, its basically supposed to be this system where obama or the illuminati or some crap are supposed to take away your rights....some theories think the world is gonna have same currency allowing easier control...some theories are that this new world order has prepared 500,000 caskets and concentration camps in the u.s....but basically, i guess it means some big brother type crap

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Old 06-11-2009, 04:02 PM   #125
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Default Re: The New World Order conspiracy

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OxPYa5mVlYU

one of the vids

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