The CREED Thread

[Raiden]

I always thought that Creed was trying to sound like Pearl Jam.

[Heretic]

This is kinda offtopic

BUT

Creeds replacement bassist was previously the singer of a band called Virgos Merlot...who were not exactly the most unique band ever...but I think their album was one of the better grunge type cds of that era.

Where do people get the Pearl Jam and Creed comparison? I mean seriously. Neither of the bands sound anything alike at all in terms of their sound. The whole debate needs to stop because they're both great bands.

I love both Pearl Jam and Creed equally. They're two different bands with different sounds and themes in their music. If Creed is ripping off Pearl Jam then so is Nickelback, Lifehouse, early Stone Temple Pilots, and etc.

[The Apatow Crew]

I don't know, maybe its the bellowing type of voices they have.

[muertevilla]

Originally Posted by LastSunrise1981

If Creed is ripping off Pearl Jam then so is Nickelback, Lifehouse, early Stone Temple Pilots, and etc.

that is the most true statement ever.

[Colossal Spoons]

Scott Stapp and Chad Kroeger need to do a song together. It'll probably sound ridiculous but I need to hear it

[BlackLantern]

They need to pry the liquor battle out of Stapps hand first

[Colossal Spoons]

and the peroxide out of Kroeger's

Originally Posted by BlackLantern

They need to pry the liquor battle out of Stapps hand first

Rumor has it that Stapp has been sober for a good while now and has managed to get his life together. Plus he even cut his hair and he looks a lot healthier now than he did before.

I always felt Scott was the victim of fame going to his head and alienating everyone around him to the success Creed garnered.

[jaguarr]

I hate Nickelback, too.

jag

[Heretic]

The music industry has been beating the Grunge horse ever since 1993. With cd sales declining, they are sticking with the tried and true formula for a hit, which is yet another wave of watered down Grunge. What I find a little odd is that there is virtually no Nirvana influence in popular music today...probably because the upper middle class suburban kids forming bands today just dont understand how to make raw music. Pearl Jam and Alice In Chains seem to be the templates for bands these days...but as i said, watered down to the point where Grunge is no longer an appropriate term.

Sadly, I fear that todays bands dont even get their influence from Alice In Chains, and likely stole their sound from Godsmack...

[Kargo Warrior]

Originally Posted by LastSunrise1981

Where do people get the Pearl Jam and Creed comparison? I mean seriously. Neither of the bands sound anything alike at all in terms of their sound. The whole debate needs to stop because they're both great bands.

I love both Pearl Jam and Creed equally. They're two different bands with different sounds and themes in their music. If Creed is ripping off Pearl Jam then so is Nickelback, Lifehouse, early Stone Temple Pilots, and etc.

Exactly...the thing is,most people who make the comparison are usually not fans of either band...it just stuck with them and it has never left.

If anything Creed are more alike with Alice In Chains than Pearl Jam.
Wrong Way,Never Say Die,Young Grow Old,Illusion,Unforgiven...nothing like the type of Grunge PJ does/did.

[jaguarr]

Originally Posted by Heretic

The music industry has been beating the Grunge horse ever since 1993. With cd sales declining, they are sticking with the tried and true formula for a hit, which is yet another wave of watered down Grunge. What I find a little odd is that there is virtually no Nirvana influence in popular music today...probably because the upper middle class suburban kids forming bands today just dont understand how to make raw music. Pearl Jam and Alice In Chains seem to be the templates for bands these days...but as i said, watered down to the point where Grunge is no longer an appropriate term.

Sadly, I fear that todays bands dont even get their influence from Alice In Chains, and likely stole their sound from Godsmack...

Alice In Chains and even early Pearl Jam were pretty damn raw (as was Soundgarden). I do agree with you that the sound has become very homogenized and watered down. It's become corporatized, basically. Creed was kind of at the forefront of that corporatized version of grunge, IMHO. Maybe that's why I've never really cared for them all that much. They're mediocre and marginalized in the face of the bands that came before them that they most certainly owe their sound and very existence to. Bands like them and Nickelback are "safe" rebellious music. The bands that came before them were truly groundbreaking musically and pushed the envelope musically despite and in spite of their own limitations (thinking mostly of Cobain on that statement) and payed homage, lyrically speaking, to the punk influences that inspired them without it becoming washed out or watered down in the process. Corporate rock is annoying and I really think of bands like Nickelback and Creed when I think of the term "corporate rock". I call it "Beer Commercial Music".

jag

[Logan's Runt]

Creed = ew

[jaguarr]

Originally Posted by Kargo Warrior

Exactly...the thing is,most people who make the comparison are usually not fans of either band...it just stuck with them and it has never left.

If anything Creed are more alike with Alice In Chains than Pearl Jam.
Wrong Way,Never Say Die,Young Grow Old,Illusion,Unforgiven...nothing like the type of Grunge PJ does/did.

Please....Creed isn't even fit to be mentioned as the same sentence as AIC. Scott Stapp can't hold a candle to Layne Staley in any way shape or form and Jerry Cantrell is seven kinds of more incredible than Tremonti.

jag

[Addendum]

Originally Posted by jaguarr

Alice In Chains and even early Pearl Jam were pretty damn raw (as was Soundgarden). I do agree with you that the sound has become very homogenized and watered down. It's become corporatized, basically. Creed was kind of at the forefront of that corporatized version of grunge, IMHO. Maybe that's why I've never really cared for them all that much. They're mediocre and marginalized in the face of the bands that came before them that they most certainly owe their sound and very existence to. Bands like them and Nickelback are "safe" rebellious music. The bands that came before them were truly groundbreaking musically and pushed the envelope musically despite and in spite of their own limitations (thinking mostly of Cobain on that statement) and payed homage, lyrically speaking, to the punk influences that inspired them without it becoming washed out or watered down in the process. Corporate rock is annoying and I really think of bands like Nickelback and Creed when I think of the term "corporate rock". I call it "Beer Commercial Music".

jag

I agree, even though I was never into Pearl Jam or Nirvana.

[Corey]

Originally Posted by jaguarr

Please....Creed isn't even fit to be mentioned as the same sentence as AIC. Scott Stapp can't hold a candle to Layne Staley in any way shape or form and Jerry Cantrell is seven kinds of more incredible than Tremonti.

jag

Tremonti, technically speaking, isn't the cleanest guitar player. I mean, by higher echelon guitar playing standards, he's kind of sloppy. But, unless you're looking for it, or you are a musician yourself, you probably won't notice it. Never is it jarring or distracting. To me, it just comes down to splitting hairs. He is a tremendously gifted guitarist and song writer. He's so good at creating distinct melody and harmony/counter harmony lines, it's not even funny. The guy knows how to craft riffs, melodies, and songs.

Just like Santana. Carlos is sort of enamered as a guitar god, yet he has his own little limitations as well. That being, he kind of tends to recycle the same lick over and over--and that's what he builds most of his solos and interludes off of. Now, you'll hear guitarists say, "He sucks", but I think it's all snobbish pedentics. To me, that's what creates his "sound". You can hear a guitar lick for the first time, and immediately know it's Carlos Santana.

Jerry Cantrell is a great guitarist. I've only seen a few clips of him live, so I don't really have the full scope of who he is as a guitarist, but I'd have to say they're pretty much equal--just different styles. I don't really see anything that Jerry does that blows Mark out of the water or anything.

[jaguarr]

Originally Posted by Corey

Tremonti, technically speaking, isn't the cleanest guitar player. I mean, by higher echelon guitar playing standards, he's kind of sloppy. But, unless you're looking for it, or you are a musician yourself, you probably won't notice it. Never is it jarring or distracting. To me, it just comes down to splitting hairs. He is a tremendously gifted guitarist and song writer. He's so good at creating distinct melody and harmony/counter harmony lines, it's not even funny. The guy knows how to craft riffs, melodies, and songs.

I'm a musician, which is a large part of my critical evaluation of other musicians. It's what other musicians do to one another...tear each other to ribbons. Tremonti is not a BAD guitarist or songwriter by any means. I find much of what he does to be pretty derivative, though. Maybe he'll branch out and really discover his own innovative style, but so much of what I have heard sounds like "me too" answers to other guitarist's work.

Just like Santana. Carlos is sort of enamered as a guitar god, yet he has his own little limitations as well. That being, he kind of tends to recycle the same lick over and over--and that's what he builds most of his solos and interludes off of. Now, you'll hear guitarists say, "He sucks", but I think it's all snobbish pedentics. To me, that's what creates his "sound". You can hear a guitar lick for the first time, and immediately know it's Carlos Santana.

Ehhh.....Santana was an innovator who created an entire sound based on taking Latin rooted music and jazz to the electric guitar and the rock format at a time when no one had ever done that before and everyone was trying to copycat Hendrix. He blazed his own trail. I wouldn't call Tremonti "just like Santana" by any stretch of the imagination.

Jerry Cantrell is a great guitarist. I've only seen a few clips of him live, so I don't really have the full scope of who he is as a guitarist, but I'd have to say they're pretty much equal--just different styles. I don't really see anything that Jerry does that blows Mark out of the water or anything.

Technically speaking, Cantrell is a superior guitarist. That's not a dig on Tremonti's ability, but he is simply not in the same league as Cantrell. Sorry.

jag

[Heretic]

Originally Posted by jaguarr

Alice In Chains and even early Pearl Jam were pretty damn raw (as was Soundgarden). I do agree with you that the sound has become very homogenized and watered down. It's become corporatized, basically. Creed was kind of at the forefront of that corporatized version of grunge, IMHO. Maybe that's why I've never really cared for them all that much. They're mediocre and marginalized in the face of the bands that came before them that they most certainly owe their sound and very existence to. Bands like them and Nickelback are "safe" rebellious music. The bands that came before them were truly groundbreaking musically and pushed the envelope musically despite and in spite of their own limitations (thinking mostly of Cobain on that statement) and payed homage, lyrically speaking, to the punk influences that inspired them without it becoming washed out or watered down in the process. Corporate rock is annoying and I really think of bands like Nickelback and Creed when I think of the term "corporate rock". I call it "Beer Commercial Music".

jag

Pearl Jam never really had an "early" period as the band had already signed a record deal before Eddie Vedder even joined the band...but I do feel like Ten (far and away their best album...and one of the best of all time) was a more heartfelt and emotional album, if thats what you mean. I really like Soundgardens early work, like Screaming Life, Fopp, Louder Than Love...the real whacked out stuff that was all over the place. For me, they really lost what made them unique when they started writing "radio hits". Alice In Chains came a little later, if I recall...as I was already well into the Seattle scene before one of the locals (I believe it was Stone Gossard) turned me onto Alice In Chains debut album We Die Young. I wasnt as into them, but looking back, they were far more talented than most of their Grunge brethren (like Jag said...Im looking at YOU Kurt Cobain).

I define what is currently popular as Jock Rock...fake angry music for guys who have nothing to really be angry about. The worst is Rev Theory. Those guys were on a tour with some friends of mine, and I remember them doing a cover of "Hunger Strike" and I almost threw up on the stage. How dare you...

And to weigh in on Cantrell vs Tremonti...I like the sound Cantrell gets out of his guitar better, but I havent heard any songs by him that didnt involve layne Staley that I thought were very memorable. Tremonti's strength is in crafting a good song, which is vital.

[Kargo Warrior]

Originally Posted by jaguarr

Please....Creed isn't even fit to be mentioned as the same sentence as AIC. Scott Stapp can't hold a candle to Layne Staley in any way shape or form and Jerry Cantrell is seven kinds of more incredible than Tremonti.

jag

Alice In Chains were a tremendeous band but Jerry Cantrell is one of the most limited guitarists there are,technically speaking.

The usual A5 to D5 power chords with some blues pentatonic solos in between.What made them great was Layne's amazing ability to put his emotions through the song.

For example Nutshell...without his singing it's a simple C-G-E acoustic song.

Mark Tremonti on the other hand uses a lot of different tunings which is very,very rare in Rock and i'm not speaking of the usual drop-D.He's been jamming pretty often latelly with the likes of Steve Vai and one of the reasons he left Creed was that he felt he coudnt show what he is capable of with the type of music the band makes.

To respond to your previous post,just because Creed were not terribly inovative doesn't make them any less great,they weren't ''corporate'' music at all,like i've said in my previous post they were just friends who started to make music,started playing in their home town,became very popular there and one day they a guy from a small label called Wind-Up saw them and sing them up...

...and they didnt became famous over night..the record company went to the local radio stations and gave the single My Own Prison an airplay...and the first night 50 people called to ask who that was and they became bigger and bigger that way through gigs and radio play.

They were a true rock band,whether you like them or not it's a different matter but the fact is they became too big for their own good and after that it all went downhill.

[Marx]

Originally Posted by LastSunrise1981

Where do people get the Pearl Jam and Creed comparison? I mean seriously. Neither of the bands sound anything alike at all in terms of their sound. The whole debate needs to stop because they're both great bands.

I love both Pearl Jam and Creed equally. They're two different bands with different sounds and themes in their music. If Creed is ripping off Pearl Jam then so is Nickelback, Lifehouse, early Stone Temple Pilots, and etc.

Truer words were never spoken.


(For the record, I am also a fan of Lifehouse and STP.)

[Kargo Warrior]

Originally Posted by jaguarr

I'm a musician, which is a large part of my critical evaluation of other musicians. It's what other musicians do to one another...tear each other to ribbons. Tremonti is not a BAD guitarist or songwriter by any means. I find much of what he does to be pretty derivative, though. Maybe he'll branch out and really discover his own innovative style, but so much of what I have heard sounds like "me too" answers to other guitarist's work.



Ehhh.....Santana was an innovator who created an entire sound based on taking Latin rooted music and jazz to the electric guitar and the rock format at a time when no one had ever done that before and everyone was trying to copycat Hendrix. He blazed his own trail. I wouldn't call Tremonti "just like Santana" by any stretch of the imagination.



Technically speaking, Cantrell is a superior guitarist. That's not a dig on Tremonti's ability, but he is simply not in the same league as Cantrell. Sorry.

jag

You might not like Creed but you obviously have never heard/seen Mark Tremonti play...

I play everything from Vai to Nuno Bettencourt to Marty Friedman..i was in the whole shred metal movement for years and from that stand point Tremonti is a mile better technical guitarist than Cantrell

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C1elp...eature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U_tfOf7Wqaw

[Corey]

Originally Posted by jaguarr

I'm a musician, which is a large part of my critical evaluation of other musicians. It's what other musicians do to one another...tear each other to ribbons.

Right, and we all do it to a certain extent, but some people just lose their minds and go too far. "That was the laziest Aolean legatto I've ever seen! How dare he even strap on a guitar?!"

Originally Posted by jaguarr

Tremonti is not a BAD guitarist or songwriter by any means. I find much of what he does to be pretty derivative, though. Maybe he'll branch out and really discover his own innovative style, but so much of what I have heard sounds like "me too" answers to other guitarist's work.

See, I'm just not seeing what you're seeing. I don't see him as being a blocky musician at all. He totally has his own voice on the guitar--he's not copying anybody, you can tell. I mean, do you really need to be pushy/groundbreaking/ahead of the times in order for people to see that your playing from your heart? I mean, is that a prerequisite?

Originally Posted by jaguarr

Ehhh.....Santana was an innovator who created an entire sound based on taking Latin rooted music and jazz to the electric guitar and the rock format at a time when no one had ever done that before and everyone was trying to copycat Hendrix. I would call Tremonti "just like Santana" by any stretch of the imagination.

There again, why does it have to be groundbreaking? And for the record, I love Santana, I was just taking a small inuendo of a certain part of their playing style, and drew a comparison to make a point. I didn't say Tremonti was just like Santana. You're right--Santana helped push that style of guitar to the forefront, and created a movement. In that sense alone, he's greater.

Originally Posted by jaguarr

Technically speaking, Cantrell is a superior guitarist. That's not a dig on Tremonti's ability, but he is simply not in the same league as Cantrell. Sorry.

jag

Interesting. How do you mean? Can you help us understand what you mean? I'll have to check out some videos of Cantrell doing his thing. Any you'd recommend? It wouldn't surprise me if that's the case. Still, to me, I consider a great musician to be someone who can skillfully evoke their heart and soul through their instrument, to the point where it's like an ampendage. I'd take that over someone just noodling complex music theory on their instrument with pinpoint precision--for the sake of being complex--any day.




To each their own. That's what makes music great.

[Marx]

Originally Posted by jmanspice

I would rather shove a fork in my ear than listen to Creed.

It has nothing to with them being Christian in influence. Several self-defined Christian bands are at least tolerable to listen to, if I don't pay attention to the words they are singing. However, Creed's lead singer has an annoying voice and most of their songs are poorly written and performed, so I have very little patience for this one particular band.

I'm thinking you've never seen them live. (Or listened to them at all man!) I guess I'm going to have to kidnap you and take you to a reunion show!

[jaguarr]

Originally Posted by Heretic

Pearl Jam never really had an "early" period as the band had already signed a record deal before Eddie Vedder even joined the band...but I do feel like Ten (far and away their best album...and one of the best of all time) was a more heartfelt and emotional album, if thats what you mean.

Yeah, I was thinking of "Ten" when I wrote that.

I really like Soundgardens early work, like Screaming Life, Fopp, Louder Than Love...the real whacked out stuff that was all over the place. For me, they really lost what made them unique when they started writing "radio hits".

I'd add "UltramegaOK" and "Badmotorfinger" to that list. "Superunknown" is when they really started to write what you and I would probably both call "radio hits". But, yeah, "Louder Than Love" is one of my favorite workout albums.

Alice In Chains came a little later, if I recall...as I was already well into the Seattle scene before one of the locals (I believe it was Stone Gossard) turned me onto Alice In Chains debut album We Die Young. I wasnt as into them, but looking back, they were far more talented than most of their Grunge brethren (like Jag said...Im looking at YOU Kurt Cobain).

I always wonder what the face of rock music would look like today if Cobain and Staley were still around. They were both about pushing the envelope and exploring new territories and sounds.

I define what is currently popular as Jock Rock...fake angry music for guys who have nothing to really be angry about. The worst is Rev Theory. Those guys were on a tour with some friends of mine, and I remember them doing a cover of "Hunger Strike" and I almost threw up on the stage. How dare you...

Okay, the thought of Rev Theory trying to play that song amuses me for some reason.

And to weigh in on Cantrell vs Tremonti...I like the sound Cantrell gets out of his guitar better, but I havent heard any songs by him that didnt involve layne Staley that I thought were very memorable. Tremonti's strength is in crafting a good song, which is vital.

Possibly true. My only real exposure to Tremonti is Creed and some Alterbridge stuff, and he simply has not impressed me at all on anything of his that I've heard.

Originally Posted by Kargo Warrior

Alice In Chains were a tremendeous band but Jerry Cantrell is one of the most limited guitarists there are,technically speaking.

The usual A5 to D5 power chords with some blues pentatonic solos in between.What made them great was Layne's amazing ability to put his emotions through the song.

No argument that Layne's voice was what made that band's sound (Cantrell's accompanying harmonies not withstanding). Being a singer, that's what I listened to more than anything when I first heard those AIC songs back in the day.

For example Nutshell...without his singing it's a simple C-G-E acoustic song.

Mark Tremonti on the other hand uses a lot of different tunings which is very,very rare in Rock and i'm not speaking of the usual drop-D.He's been jamming pretty often latelly with the likes of Steve Vai and one of the reasons he left Creed was that he felt he coudnt show what he is capable of with the type of music the band makes.

Well, Vai's good company, particularly from a technical perspective (I have seen Vai live a few times and he's much more capable of squeezing emotion out of an axe than people give him credit for). My exposure to Tremonti is his Creed stuff (horribly derivative) and his Alterbridge stuff (the stuff that made me think he wasn't so bad). I've not heard any of his solo stuff. But, yeah, I could see where he felt limited in Creed.

To respond to your previous post,just because Creed were not terribly inovative doesn't make them any less great,they weren't ''corporate'' music at all,like i've said in my previous post they were just friends who started to make music,started playing in their home town,became very popular there and one day they a guy from a small label called Wind-Up saw them and sing them up...

I said they were at the forefront of that watered down Grunge wanna-be sound that eventually came to epitomize "corporate rock". Maybe they didn't start out being "corporate rock" but they sure did become the poster boys for it simply by playing the music that they did. I still find the music Creed made to be a watered down ghost of many grunge bands that preceded them. *shrug*

...and they didnt became famous over night..the record company went to the local radio stations and gave the single My Own Prison an airplay...and the first night 50 people called to ask who that was and they became bigger and bigger that way through gigs and radio play.

They were a true rock band,whether you like them or not it's a different matter but the fact is they became too big for their own good and after that it all went downhill.

I never said they weren't a true rock band. I just said they weren't an innovative rock band. I said they came to epitomize "corporate rock". I said that their music was awatered-down, homogenized version of many grunge bands before them. I never said they weren't a true rock band. And I don't care if they became popular or not. I live in a country where Britney Spears tops the charts, so that means jack-all to me.

Originally Posted by Kargo Warrior

You might not like Creed but you obviously have never heard/seen Mark Tremonti play...

Only heard his Creed and Alterbridge stuff.

I play everything from Vai to Nuno Bettencourt to Marty Friedman..i was in the whole shred metal movement for years and from that stand point Tremonti is a mile better technical guitarist than Cantrell

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C1elp...eature=related

Jesus H. Christ! Could he use any more delay in the first part of that clip? That sounded like ****! I'll be honest....them's some sloppy sweeps, man. [/quote]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U_tfOf7Wqaw

Okay, a little better technique involved on this solo, but I have to say that I absolutely hate the tone he uses. It makes him sound like a much, much sloppier player than he actually is. His technique isn't bad, but as far as composition goes, even in an improvisational setting, I'm not overly impressed. There's no real structure or substance going on in what he's playing, to be honest.

jag